Wrestling News & Rumours Thread ***NO CHAT***

weareallmarks

Which means what mate?

We are not commanded from on high to keep conversations going when they go around and around in circles.

Feel free to add me to your ignore list also....

beakerjoe wrote: »

But you replied to him this morming.

Lithium93_

IN ACTUAL WRESTLING NEWS!!!

Impact Women's Champion Deonna Purazzo has laid down a challenge for anyone who thinks they can step up to her.

https://twitter.com/deonnapurrazzo/status/1350946318584307725?s=21

beakerjoe

weareallmarks wrote: »

Which means what mate?

We are not commanded from on high to keep conversations going when they go around and around in circles.

Feel free to add me to your ignore list also....

You are giving out in public that you want to move on from a public conversation that by all accounts everyone already moved on from until you brought it back up again yourself 2 hours ago.

Just seems obvious that you didnt have to reply this morning if you wanted to move on.

Thats what it means.

weareallmarks

I was quoted in something I replied to. Not on here every day.

Move on.

beakerjoe wrote: »

You are giving out in public that you want to move on from a public conversation that by all accounts everyone already moved on from until you brought it back up again yourself 2 hours ago.

Just seems obvious that you didnt have to reply this morning if you wanted to move on.

Thats what it means.

thebostoncrab

I'll preface this by saying I'm a fan of Ricochet. I think he is a great wrestler, and can put on exciting matches which deserve all the praise they have gotten. But he isn't who springs to mind when I think of "WWE Main Event", and it does come down to his charisma. Charisma on the indies or NJPW is not the same thing as charisma in WWE. The product and the audience are very different. Charisma doesn't matter on the indies because, by design, I'm not watching you every single week in that environment. It's not as important in NJPW because it's a sports-focused product, so it's the quality of the match and the story of the match that draw the audience in. With WWE, you need that charisma to have the audience see themselves in you.

I'll give you an example of CM Punk. Someone that has a rep for being an amazing talker as well as a gifted wrestler. On the indies, you could never deny Punk had a connection with the audience. He knew what worked for that fan. He could talk anyone into the room, or use the mic to make an audience really hate him. I still remember going onto the ROH forums during The Summer of Punk, for example, and the amount of people gunning for his head was insane, he fooled the "smart fan".

But when he came to WWE, it didn't click. Because the WWE audience (Not the indie fan, let me make that clear. And I agree with some of the points before, indie fans make up the tiniest percentage of the WWE fanbase. We, and I say this as one myself and a retired wrestling journalist, live in a bubble) didn't get that connection with him. He was charismatic, only a fool who say otherwise, but it didn't click to the level that it could (and eventually would), because the audience didn't see themselves in CM Punk. They saw a great wrestler, they say a guy who could clearly talk, but they didn't see a reflection.

Then the pipebomb happened. Then it all clicked. Then the audience saw themselves in Punk. They saw themselves in the man who was going against the system, and fighting for what they felt they deserved. Anyone can relate to that, and it felt real.

Now, go back to CM Punk starting in WWE. He has charisma, it is there. Now look at Ricochet. Great wrestler, but doesn't have that same gift that a CM Punk, a Daniel Bryan, a Kevin Owens, an AJ Styles etc all have.

On the indies? Main event. In NJPW, upper mid card. In AEW? I'd say he has a shot at cracking that upper mid card also. But not WWE. And that's ok, this isn't the early 00's anymore, the boys have options and places they can go to that better caters for who they are and what connects with their audience.

beakerjoe

Ricochet and others can learn how to connect with the audience. Id argue AJ Styles wasnt one that lit up a room promo wise but really came on as his career progressed to ROH and then WWE. He gained confidence as he went and while hes no Rock, he certainly is entertaining on the mic.

Kevin Nash is a great example. He was awful, I mean worse than Ricochet is by a mile and he turned into one of the best talkers as he went.

Point is, if Ricochet was allowed to show his personality, rather than memorize and regurgitate those awful pre written WWE face promos, then he might learn as he goes and gain in confidence. Through trial and error he can improve. But mid card guys are rarely given such chances these days.

beakerjoe

weareallmarks wrote: »

I was quoted in something I replied to. Not on here every day.

Move on.

We did. :rolleyes:

Lord TSC

weareallmarks wrote: »

@lineofbeauty youre on the ignore list. Lets move on.

Mod Hat On:
As communicated via PM to the user as well, telling people you're putting them on the ignore list is a breach of site wide rules. Given I've had to repeatedly warn weareallmarks to stop with the petty ****-stirring too, I've also issued a thread ban to him.

Everyone else, do move on

Omackeral

weareallmarks wrote: »

To be even slightly annoyed by someone quoting online is a lucky position to be in mate.

Keep on being a fan

That’s not what the poster is getting at. Most people (well, all of them) quote the post they’re replying to and then reply underneath it. It makes chronological sense and reads more like a discussion.

weareallmarks

So the mod's message is the same as mine.

Petty sh*t stirring, putting someone on an ignore list isnt that. Why is the ignore list there then?

Lord TSC wrote: »

Mod Hat On:
As communicated via PM to the user as well, telling people you're putting them on the ignore list is a breach of site wide rules. Given I've had to repeatedly warn weareallmarks to stop with the petty ****-stirring too, I've also issued a thread ban to him.

Everyone else, do move on

Omackeral

LineOfBeauty

thebostoncrab wrote: »

I'll preface this by saying I'm a fan of Ricochet. I think he is a great wrestler, and can put on exciting matches which deserve all the praise they have gotten. But he isn't who springs to mind when I think of "WWE Main Event", and it does come down to his charisma. Charisma on the indies or NJPW is not the same thing as charisma in WWE. The product and the audience are very different. Charisma doesn't matter on the indies because, by design, I'm not watching you every single week in that environment. It's not as important in NJPW because it's a sports-focused product, so it's the quality of the match and the story of the match that draw the audience in. With WWE, you need that charisma to have the audience see themselves in you.

I'll give you an example of CM Punk. Someone that has a rep for being an amazing talker as well as a gifted wrestler. On the indies, you could never deny Punk had a connection with the audience. He knew what worked for that fan. He could talk anyone into the room, or use the mic to make an audience really hate him. I still remember going onto the ROH forums during The Summer of Punk, for example, and the amount of people gunning for his head was insane, he fooled the "smart fan".

But when he came to WWE, it didn't click. Because the WWE audience (Not the indie fan, let me make that clear. And I agree with some of the points before, indie fans make up the tiniest percentage of the WWE fanbase. We, and I say this as one myself and a retired wrestling journalist, live in a bubble) didn't get that connection with him. He was charismatic, only a fool who say otherwise, but it didn't click to the level that it could (and eventually would), because the audience didn't see themselves in CM Punk. They saw a great wrestler, they say a guy who could clearly talk, but they didn't see a reflection.

Then the pipebomb happened. Then it all clicked. Then the audience saw themselves in Punk. They saw themselves in the man who was going against the system, and fighting for what they felt they deserved. Anyone can relate to that, and it felt real.

Now, go back to CM Punk starting in WWE. He has charisma, it is there. Now look at Ricochet. Great wrestler, but doesn't have that same gift that a CM Punk, a Daniel Bryan, a Kevin Owens, an AJ Styles etc all have.

On the indies? Main event. In NJPW, upper mid card. In AEW? I'd say he has a shot at cracking that upper mid card also. But not WWE. And that's ok, this isn't the early 00's anymore, the boys have options and places they can go to that better caters for who they are and what connects with their audience.

Is Ricochet a great promo? No. He just isn't, and that's fine. Is he a horrible promo? Also no. He's fine. Is AJ Styles a great promo? No. Never has been. But he's charismatic in different ways. If you take his Lucha Underground work, which was weekly American wrestling TV at it's core, he was the most over guy on the roster during his time there.

Ultimately though the Ricochet debate and arguing or debating his strengths and weaknesses within WWE is a fruitless debate because inevitably you have to then debate the star making processes of WWE and, without being flippant, you may as well be debating the results of the Euromillions tomorrow night.

This is a very different company to the WWE that elevated CM Punk, or even Daniel Bryan. I'd argue they could've gotten more out of Owens than they have, and Styles they've done as well as they were likely to do given the profile of the wrestler and what they normally look for in a top talent.

All I'll say is this, in a different world, where a company not named WWE is the biggest wrestling company around, if you had Ricochet on your roster and managed to not make money with him I'd say you've completely failed as a booker. But it's WWE and these examples are a dime a dozen now. And it's so regular and routine that fans will actually argue that the problem isn't with WWE, it's with the wrestler. That's how numb people are now to these booking failures.

I'll give a quick example of the opposite. Eddie Kingston was a guy that everybody knew was a great promo, everybody. He's very hit or miss in ring, often times more miss than hit. And he wasn't signed in that signing boom when WWE, AEW and NJPW were hoovering up talent at first. But he had his shot in the NWA, AEW took him on and they've gotten value out of him, they got a ppv main event out of him, an excellent programme with Mox and now they've got a mouthpiece/heel stable leader with him. He's a talent that has limitations (and I'd argue far more limitations than Ricochet) but AEW have gotten something out of him. What have WWE gotten out of Ricochet? And you could replace the name Riochet would a line of guys in it's place. Not everyone can be a headline star, but with the roster that they have (incredible) they should have guys hand over fist making them money, they should have a glut of guys who are ratings difference makers, if this company were booking these guys in even a semi-competent way.

And I'll say what I said a few days ago again. If you booked Ricochet/Omega or Ricochet/Mox and DIDN'T make money then you should not be doing pro wrestling because you are doing it wrong. In the same vein, if you've got Ricochet on your roster and you can't find anything better for him than Main Event or whatever other dopey thing they do with him, then you are doing pro wrestling wrong.

weareallmarks

This issue is beyond silly,but the gif is hilarious

Omackeral wrote: »

thebostoncrab

beakerjoe wrote: »

Ricochet and others can learn how to connect with the audience. Id argue AJ Styles wasnt one that lit up a room promo wise but really came on as his career progressed to ROH and then WWE. He gained confidence as he went and while hes no Rock, he certainly is entertaining on the mic.

Kevin Nash is a great example. He was awful, I mean worse than Ricochet is by a mile and he turned into one of the best talkers as he went.

Point is, if Ricochet was allowed to show his personality, rather than memorize and regurgitate those awful pre written WWE face promos, then he might learn as he goes and gain in confidence. Through trial and error he can improve. But mid card guys are rarely given such chances these days.

To be honest, I actually think it's one the best things about having AEW right now, is getting the chance to see if someone can make it as a talker or not. I'm not a fan of the scripted promo.....sorry, let me re-phrase, I'm not a fan of how WWE scripts their promo's right now. They do hold back a ton of folks and can do more to expose someone rather than protect them. There are a ton of benefits to having a writing staff, mostly around timing for TV and clear story telling, but you need decent writers. But with AEW, the writing works more along the lines of the bullet point system, so it's on the talent to let their charisma shine. So someone like a Ricochet, who clearly doesn't benefit for the script writing process in WWE, can get that chance to showcase what they can do, and if they show promise work on it. And if they excel and WWE is where they want to get to, they learned how to connect with the audience in that way and should excel in a tighter scripts. (I say should because we all know you can still sometimes be given dog **** to work with!)

beakerjoe

thebostoncrab wrote: »

To be honest, I actually think it's one the best things about having AEW right now, is getting the chance to see if someone can make it as a talker or not. I'm not a fan of the scripted promo.....sorry, let me re-phrase, I'm not a fan of how WWE scripts their promo's right now. They do hold back a ton of folks and can do more to expose someone rather than protect them. There are a ton of benefits to having a writing staff, mostly around timing for TV and clear story telling, but you need decent writers. But with AEW, the writing works more along the lines of the bullet point system, so it's on the talent to let their charisma shine. So someone like a Ricochet, who clearly doesn't benefit for the script writing process in WWE, can get that chance to showcase what they can do, and if they show promise work on it. And if they excel and WWE is where they want to get to, they learned how to connect with the audience in that way and should excel in a tighter scripts. (I say should because we all know you can still sometimes be given dog **** to work with!)

I agree. For better or worse I enjoy it.

Take Miro in WWE and AEW. He now gets to prove himself and see if WWE were right to hold him back and can he stand on his own two feet. No Lana cutting promos, he gets to prove can he be the star we all thought he could be.

Miro in my opinion (booking aside) has been shown to be more than capable of cutting a promo. Early days for him though.

Sirsok

beakerjoe wrote: »

.Just seems obvious that you didnt have to reply this morning if you wanted to move on.

I took this approach when debating Line of Beauty on the performance centre, just stopped replying not due to me believing he was right but we just were not going to agree.

I completely diagree with his previous post in regards to Jon Moxley being a great mic man and once in a generation talent, i was gonna chime and I just said nope.

All though I do enjoy a lengthy debate and Line of Beautys post style, somethings you just gotta know that there are people out there that you just dont agree with on certain topics, such as is Ricochet having charisma.

LineOfBeauty

Sirsok wrote: »

I took this approach when debating Line of Beauty on the performance centre, just stopped replying not due to me believing he was right but we just were not going to agree.

I completely diagree with his previous post in regards to Jon Moxley being a great mic man and once in a generation talent, i was chime and I just said nope.

All though I do enjoy a lengthy debate and Line of Beautys post style, somethings you just gotta know that there are people out there that you just dont agree with on certain topics, such as is Ricochet having charisma.

Love you too Sirsok.

Omackeral

I love when he says Ace of the division, personally.

CastorTroy

Lithium93_ wrote: »

IN ACTUAL WRESTLING NEWS!!!

Impact Women's Champion Deonna Purazzo has laid down a challenge for anyone who thinks they can step up to her.

https://twitter.com/deonnapurrazzo/status/1350946318584307725?s=21

AEW challenger incoming? Or just teasing. Because all AEW women need is a third title to challenge for.

Don't do it Deonna, don't do it.

The White Wolf

Probably someone on the fringes of the AEW women's roster. Big Swole would be a right fit for Impact. :Pac:

There doesn't have to be cross promotion appearances necessarily. They can just do a swap.

CastorTroy

The Bunny makes her Impact debut. An Allie return could work. Also, according to wiki, she used to be in a tag team with Kimber Lee

beakerjoe

AEW are getting the better of this deal so far. Impact have just been taking hit after it.

If Deonna was to face someone from AEW, she has to go over and it has to be on Impact. Deonna vs Big Swole or Nyla Rose perhaps.

beakerjoe

beakerjoe wrote: »

AEW are getting the better of this deal so far. Impact have just been taking hit after it.

If Deonna was to face someone from AEW, she has to go over and it has to be on Impact. Deonna vs Big Swole or Nyla Rose perhaps.

How?

Impact are getting great exposure on the back of the deal. AEW are on TNT, Impact is barely a YouTube show.

Deonna going over an AEW opponent would be brilliant for them.

beakerjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

How?

Impact are getting great exposure on the back of the deal. AEW are on TNT, Impact is barely a YouTube show.

Deonna going over an AEW opponent would be brilliant for them.

How much exposure is it getting them? I dont know if they received a bump in the numbers from Kenny appearing.

On the flip side, putting their Champion vs Kenny was never gonna make Impact look anything other than inferior to AEW (which they are). The association hasn't made them look stronger and id argue any AEW fan checking them out wont be impressed nor hurrying to tune in again.

I cant speak for this show but when I checked out Impact a few weeks ago there was so much ****e that I wasnt going back for seconds.

J. Marston

CastorTroy wrote: »

AEW challenger incoming? Or just teasing. Because all AEW women need is a third title to challenge for.

Charlotte. If there's a title going, she'll pop around.

Agent Coulson

Striker said something on commentary that got me thinking where they are going with this when he was talking about NJPW as well and he mentioned a Supershow where all the champions around the world compete together.


This is where I see the end game going AEW, Impact, NWA, NJPW maybe one or two more like AAA & MLW possibly ROH as well for an All In (Again) PPV.

beakerjoe

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Striker said something on commentary that got me thinking where they are going with this when he was talking about NJPW as well and he mentioned a Supershow where all the champions around the world compete together.


This is where I see the end game going AEW, Impact, NWA, NJPW maybe one or two more like AAA & MLW possibly ROH as well for an All In (Again) PPV.

NJPW will want to go over Impact for how they booked Okada.

Agent Coulson

beakerjoe wrote: »

NJPW will want to go over Impact for how they booked Okada.

NJPW and AJPW and NOAH had a two Supershows about 10 years ago and it was basically tag and multi man matches splitting the wins.

This is probably how it would go,

Any excuse for more Omega and Okada

Sirsok

Suppose it can be described as news but Ciaran from the wonderful Scheduled for Two Falls podcast informed me about a game similar to Extreme Wrestling Revenge getting its first update in about 20 year.

Its called promotion wars and i have been playing it all night! Simplified version of Football manager but for the graps!

http://promwars.co.uk