Wrestling News & Rumours Thread ***NO CHAT***

Itssoeasy

J. Marston wrote: »

Bo Dallas is a cùnt.

A conspiracy nut who thinks "People should keep an open mind on things like Sandy Hook being staged so they can come after gun rights."

Yeah Bo, a class full of 6 year olds was mowed down by an assault rifle because they're after your guns.

No surprise Jericho gave him the platform to spout that shìte.

He is no loss to wrestling.

Ah well that’s my opinion on him dipping.

Not that my opinion was especially high just to be clear.

brianregan09

Can we just send people with ideals like this somewhere together so they never have to mix with us regular people again

CastorTroy

Well this will make the Saudi deal interesting
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/all/new-public-report-blame-saudi-crown-prince-2018-killing-jamal-n1258800?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

The Biden administration will release an intelligence report as early as Thursday that concludes that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman approved the 2018 killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, three U.S. officials familiar with the matter said.

Furious-Red

CastorTroy wrote: »

Well this will make the Saudi deal interesting
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/all/new-public-report-blame-saudi-crown-prince-2018-killing-jamal-n1258800?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

LineOfBeauty

Dunno if anyone has seen the WON Awards for 2020 but, spoilers!, it's dominated by AEW. The Flair/Thesz went to John Moxley, Kenny Omega won Most Outstanding Wrestler, AEW won promotion of the year at a canter, Eddie Kingston best on interviews, The Bucks vs Page/Omega match of the year, Tony Khan booker of the year, Revolution 2020 Show of the year, Kingston/Mox feud of the year. Dynamite best weekly show of the year.

I'm definitely forgetting some, but this was a landslide for them. And not at all undeserved. They've brought life to mainstream American pro wrestling.

Predictably my big gripe is SB Kento not winning rookie of the year. The kid is a prodigy, Pat McAfee and Anna Jay are leagues below this guy.

RollieFingers

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Dunno if anyone has seen the WON Awards for 2020 but, spoilers!, it's dominated by AEW. The Flair/Thesz went to John Moxley, Kenny Omega won Most Outstanding Wrestler, AEW won promotion of the year at a canter, Eddie Kingston best on interviews, The Bucks vs Page/Omega match of the year, Tony Khan booker of the year, Revolution 2020 Show of the year, Kingston/Mox feud of the year. Dynamite best weekly show of the year.

I'm definitely forgetting some, but this was a landslide for them. And not at all undeserved. They've brought life to mainstream American pro wrestling.

Predictably my big gripe is SB Kento not winning rookie of the year. The kid is a prodigy, Pat McAfee and Anna Jay are leagues below this guy.

In no world are Pat McAfee and Anna Jay anywhere near on the level of SB Kento. Id have Saya Kamitani above both too, but apart from that I agree with pretty much all the results.

Itssoeasy

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Dunno if anyone has seen the WON Awards for 2020 but, spoilers!, it's dominated by AEW. The Flair/Thesz went to John Moxley, Kenny Omega won Most Outstanding Wrestler, AEW won promotion of the year at a canter, Eddie Kingston best on interviews, The Bucks vs Page/Omega match of the year, Tony Khan booker of the year, Revolution 2020 Show of the year, Kingston/Mox feud of the year. Dynamite best weekly show of the year.

I'm definitely forgetting some, but this was a landslide for them. And not at all undeserved. They've brought life to mainstream American pro wrestling.

Predictably my big gripe is SB Kento not winning rookie of the year. The kid is a prodigy, Pat McAfee and Anna Jay are leagues below this guy.

I’m sorry but that’s a joke. Not in any universe is John moxley anywhere as good as Ric flair or Lou thesz. He will have neither the career nor the historical significance of either of them. Thankfully he seems like he’s a better human being that flair and thesz.

Why can’t Dave melter just admit he’s being paid by AEW. Does AEW deserve praise for what it’s does ? Yes. Is it the best thing since the slice pan in terms of wrestling ? No it isn’t. And just before people say I’m a WWE apologist I’m not. WWE is boring to watch and does some stupid ****.

Angron

I mean, the awards are voted for by the readership of WON, so not sure why you're accusing Dave there.

Itssoeasy

Angron wrote: »

I mean, the awards are voted for by the readership of WON, so not sure why you're accusing Dave there.

Does Dave not set the nominees ?

Edit: if he doesn’t I’ll edit my post to remove that part. My understanding is that he sets the nominees like he does for the HOF every year.

LineOfBeauty

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I’m sorry but that’s a joke. Not in any universe is John moxley anywhere as good as Ric flair or Lou thesz. He will have neither the career nor the historical significance of either of them. Thankfully he seems like he’s a better human being that flair and thesz.

Why can’t Dave melter just admit he’s being paid by AEW. Does AEW deserve praise for what it’s does ? Yes. Is it the best thing since the slice pan in terms of wrestling ? No it isn’t. And just before people say I’m a WWE apologist I’m not. WWE is boring to watch and does some stupid ****.

Ye weird take. Flair/Thesz is the name of the award mate, not a direct comparison to both wrestlers. There's been winners in the past who come nowhere close to either of those two men and, I'd argue, other winners who surpass them in certain respects.

And if you can think of a more deserving winner of that award than John Moxley in 2020 then do please fire away. The guy has won basically every wrestler of the year award he's been eligible for in 2020. He won the WON award by a landslide, Dave noting the distance he won by is among the highest ever, to me, and apparently many many others, he was the runaway pro wrestler of the year.

Also I swear the people who trot out that AEW/Meltzer line have probably never subscribed to WON in their lives. Dave is, if anything, overly kind to modern WWE and gives them a huge amount of coverage in both written and audio form.

Itssoeasy

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Ye weird take. Flair/Thesz is the name of the award mate, not a direct comparison to both wrestlers. There's been winners in the past who come nowhere close to either of those two men and, I'd argue, other winners who surpass them in certain respects.

And if you can think of a more deserving winner of that award than John Moxley in 2020 then do please fire away. The guy has won basically every wrestler of the year award he's been eligible for in 2020. He won the WON award by a landslide, Dave noting the distance he won by is among the highest ever, to me, and apparently many many others, he was the runaway pro wrestler of the year.

I gave my opinion and you disagree on it. Fine. We have very differing opinions on wrestling.

I can't wait to hear Cornette's reaction to those awards

LineOfBeauty

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I gave my opinion and you disagree on it. Fine. We have very differing opinions on wrestling.

We can disagree but I'd genuinely like to hear who your pick for wrestler of the year would be if it isn't Mox.

LineOfBeauty

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I can't wait to hear Cornette's reaction to those awards

Cornette, noted bastion of modern pro wrestling of course.

CastorTroy

So if the Thesz/Flair award is wrestler of the year, wouldn't it go to the same guy who wins "Most Outstanding Wrestler"?

LineOfBeauty

CastorTroy wrote: »

So if the Thesz/Flair award is wrestler of the year, wouldn't it go to the same guy who wins "Most Outstanding Wrestler"?

Nah, most outstanding is for purely bell to bell performance during the year, which went to Omega, barely beating out Kota Ibushi.

Itssoeasy

CastorTroy wrote: »

So if the Thesz/Flair award is wrestler of the year, wouldn't it go to the same guy who wins "Most Outstanding Wrestler"?

It’s a weird American thing like in the NFL there’s the MVP and offensive player of the year and given that the MVP is more often than not a QB you’d think if you win the MVP you’d win the other. It’s how they do it.

J. Marston

Voted on by Meltzer's cultists readers. You could write your favourite wrestlers on the back of a beer mat and it would be just as prestigious.

Best box office draw in professional wrestling: Jon Moxley.

LineOfBeauty

J. Marston wrote: »

Voted on by Meltzer's cultists readers. You could write your favourite wrestlers on the back of a beer mat and it would be just as prestigious.

Best box office draw in professional wrestling: Jon Moxley.

And we'll try again with someone else.

You don't like the awards (41st version of them and widely recognised as the most prestigious of these types of awards in pro wrestling) so which categories don't you agree with and give me alternatives. I don't understand how, when asked for alternatives, people disappear.

J. Marston

Roman Reigns and Sasha Banks are obviously bigger draws than Jon Moxley. Moxley can't even get his show to crack 850k viewers 95% of the time. How is he a draw exactly? A Dealz Stone Cold.

Cody being in the top 10 hilarious too. The only person who thinks Cody is a draw is Cody, Brandi and Tony Khan.

Those awards are just a fart-sniffing exercise for Meltzer and his readers, nothing more.

Agent Coulson

It's pretty clear the 24/7 champion Bad Bunny is the biggest draw in wrestling right now.

He sells more merch that the whole WWE roster combined on WWE Shop.

LineOfBeauty

J. Marston wrote: »

Roman Reigns and Sasha Banks are obviously bigger draws than Jon Moxley. Moxley can't even get his show to crack 850k viewers 95% of the time. How is he a draw exactly? A Dealz Stone Cold.

Cody being in the top 10 hilarious too. The only person who thinks Cody is a draw is Cody, Brandi and Tony Khan.

Those awards are just a fart-sniffing exercise for Meltzer and his readers, nothing more.

So your main issue is the biggest draw category?

So let's jump into that. That category relates to difference making stars, that's in the context of the promotion. Eg. Naito/Okada 1 drawing 35,000 to Tokyo Dome will be viewed in a more favourable light than if Reigns/Drew did 35,000 on a major show because you can look at past attendance and say (OK, Okada/Naito bumped the attendance significantly of previous Dome shows compared to Drew/Reigns which might be more in line with regular attendance of the company for a show that size). In WWE measuring star power in modern times is near impossible with no WWE attendance figures to judge from for this year. So the best you can do is judge it based on how much WWE wrestlers bump quarterly segments above the average. There is no way you can tell me Reigns or Sasha have a more significant impact in terms of bumping their quarters than Mox. In Mox's favour you can also attribute the high percentage of turning weekly viewers into paying ppv customers (around 1 in 8 if you take the average weekly viewership) in a year where Mox headlined the majority of ppvs and in a year where they've been dealing with limited capacity. That's not to mention that he's helped with the Western audience for NJPW, and now this year Bloodsport too.

So. Ye.

Again, give me some examples of categories you disagree with them and I'll run through those too.

RollieFingers

Every year without fail people get triggered by the bould Meltzer and the WON awards

I think the vote got the majority of winners spot on this year, as it usually does.

LineOfBeauty

RollieFingers wrote: »

Every year without fail people get triggered by the bould Meltzer and the WON awards

I think the vote got the majority of winners spot on this year, as it usually does.

Exactly! You can have minor nitpicks, but unless you're coming at me with takes like "Dragon Gate should've gotten more votes for promotion of the year" "Shingo/Okada and Shiozaki/Sugiura should have got more MOTY votes" or "SB Kento should've won rookie of the year" all takes I'm confident nobody here is coming at me with then sorry but no, you're just wrong.

Sirsok

I'm picking otis because I love him and thats the only reason I need.

J. Marston

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

So your main issue is the biggest draw category?

So let's jump into that. That category relates to difference making stars, that's in the context of the promotion. Eg. Naito/Okada 1 drawing 35,000 to Tokyo Dome will be viewed in a more favourable light than if Reigns/Drew did 35,000 on a major show because you can look at past attendance and say (OK, Okada/Naito bumped the attendance significantly of previous Dome shows compared to Drew/Reigns which might be more in line with regular attendance of the company for a show that size). In WWE measuring star power in modern times is near impossible with no WWE attendance figures to judge from for this year. So the best you can do is judge it based on how much WWE wrestlers bump quarterly segments above the average. There is no way you can tell me Reigns or Sasha have a more significant impact in terms of bumping their quarters than Mox. In Mox's favour you can also attribute the high percentage of turning weekly viewers into paying ppv customers (around 1 in 8 if you take the average weekly viewership) in a year where Mox headlined the majority of ppvs and in a year where they've been dealing with limited capacity. That's not to mention that he's helped with the Western audience for NJPW, and now this year Bloodsport too.

So. Ye.

Again, give me some examples of categories you disagree with them and I'll run through those too.

Don't make me laugh.

Rounding down something like "Biggest box office draw" to something like quarterly viewing statistics is nonsense.

It's about name value (or does that only apply to Big Show?) and star power. Roman and Sasha has Moxley beat hands down.

Quarterly statistics then, a few weeks ago Moxley and Kenta's tag match had the lowest quarter in Dynamite. By your own metric, he's a bust. You said the same about Edge not moving the needle in viewership and how WWE would drop the angle if they weren't so desperate. Should AEW drop the "Forbidden Door" stuff? Or is there excuses there again, like the news or demographics?

Demographics, by the way, funny how that is the yardstick for AEW and not WWE. Raw, the dirt worst wrestling show around right now, topped those precious demographics this week in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd spot and 1st, 3rd and 4th spot the week before. Yet this place and the internet would have me believe they're on their last legs.

The goalpost shifting around here is ridiculous.

LineOfBeauty

J. Marston wrote: »

Don't make me laugh.

Rounding down something like "Biggest box office draw" to something like quarterly viewing statistics is nonsense.

It's about name value (or does that only apply to Big Show?) and star power. Roman and Sasha has Moxley beat hands down.

Quarterly statistics then, a few weeks ago Moxley and Kenta's tag match had the lowest quarter in Dynamite. By your own metric, he's a bust. You said the same about Edge not moving the needle in viewership and how WWE would drop the angle if they weren't so desperate. Should AEW drop the "Forbidden Door" stuff? Or is there excuses there again, like the news or demographics?

Demographics, by the way, funny how that is the yardstick for AEW and not WWE. Raw, the dirt worst wrestling show around right now, topped those precious demographics this week in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd spot and 1st, 3rd and 4th spot the week before. Yet this place and the internet would have me believe they're on their last legs.

The goalpost shifting around here is ridiculous.

Then prove it. Prove that Reigns and Sasha are difference making stars. I'm genuinely looking forward to whatever metrics you're going to use. Because, as far as I can tell, without quarterly numbers, you'll have absolutely nothing.

WWE sold off their ppv business in 2014. So you can't use ppv buyrates. WWE Network subs are largely built off of the brand name and the library, and in any case those showed signs of decline rather than growth so they sold that off too.

TV ratings, again the only way to prove a difference making star in WWE through a widely available metric is the quarter hours. And, though I'm not for a minute suggesting this is on Reigns, his push to the top in 2014 has coincided with half of their overall viewership falling away (which, before you go on about TV is well above the average declining viewership for television in America).

So please, I'm begging you, show me a metric which proves that Reigns and Sasha are difference making stars.

You realise one example is far too small a pattern size to be considered a trend right? That's taking 1 example and ignoring numerous examples of Mox bumping ratings all year (alongside Jericho, he's been one of the biggest ratings movers for AEW and that plays out basically every week in your quarterly breakdowns.) Whereas with Edge you have a larger sample size (the pre Rumble shows, then the post Rumble shows across 3 brands, in which Edge's presence had no positive impact whatsoever). That's a pattern and from that pattern you can make an informed judgement.

Again, always happy to help with this stuff.

beakerjoe

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Dunno if anyone has seen the WON Awards for 2020 but, spoilers!, it's dominated by AEW. The Flair/Thesz went to John Moxley, Kenny Omega won Most Outstanding Wrestler, AEW won promotion of the year at a canter, Eddie Kingston best on interviews, The Bucks vs Page/Omega match of the year, Tony Khan booker of the year, Revolution 2020 Show of the year, Kingston/Mox feud of the year. Dynamite best weekly show of the year.

I'm definitely forgetting some, but this was a landslide for them. And not at all undeserved. They've brought life to mainstream American pro wrestling.

Predictably my big gripe is SB Kento not winning rookie of the year. The kid is a prodigy, Pat McAfee and Anna Jay are leagues below this guy.

Granted Dave and co are in bed with AEW, but its hard to disagree with the AEW choices.

Necro

J. Marston wrote: »

Don't make me laugh.

Rounding down something like "Biggest box office draw" to something like quarterly viewing statistics is nonsense.

It's about name value (or does that only apply to Big Show?) and star power. Roman and Sasha has Moxley beat hands down.

Quarterly statistics then, a few weeks ago Moxley and Kenta's tag match had the lowest quarter in Dynamite. By your own metric, he's a bust. You said the same about Edge not moving the needle in viewership and how WWE would drop the angle if they weren't so desperate. Should AEW drop the "Forbidden Door" stuff? Or is there excuses there again, like the news or demographics?

Demographics, by the way, funny how that is the yardstick for AEW and not WWE. Raw, the dirt worst wrestling show around right now, topped those precious demographics this week in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd spot and 1st, 3rd and 4th spot the week before. Yet this place and the internet would have me believe they're on their last legs.

The goalpost shifting around here is ridiculous.

I kinda have to agree with this. The sudden fawning over AEW signing Big Show irks me a lot when he hasn't been relevant in what - 5 years? 10 maybe?

I'd no interest in seeing him and Kane fart around in the Rumble stinking up the place in 2015, and it's certainly not going to make me watch AEW now.


I think Meltzer is a notorious spoofer who makes half of the stuff he spouts up as he goes along, that being said it's hard to disagree with the choices this year.


Yeah Reigns, Banks hell even Goldberg (yes I went there) are bigger draws but I think Moxley has had an excellent year and it's very hard to disagree with that decision.


I do think the 'everything WWE does = dirt' VS 'everything AEW does = brilliant' type of posts are stupidly annoying mind.

It's OK to think that Big Show is a pointless and stupid signing by the company just like it's ok to think Moxley deserves the award. Not everything they do has to be defended when sometimes it just stinks of 'oh he was a big name in WWE so that will work'

J. Marston

He was getting "Please retire" chants back in 2015 but he's an astute signing that will hurt Vince badly in 2021.

Give me a break.