Wrestling News & Rumours Thread ***NO CHAT***

LineOfBeauty

beakerjoe wrote: »

Granted Dave and co are in bed with AEW, but its hard to disagree with the AEW choices.

I mean Tony Khan makes no secret of the fact that he was (maybe still is actually) a WON subscriber and, in the WON show today, described winning the WON Booker of the Year award as a dream come through. Absolutely nobody is debating that Khan is a complete dirtsheet geek and I absolutely love it, listening to him today his passion for wrestling, and knowledge of it, is undeniable. And he mentions that he rings Dave every so often, honestly with Dave's wealth of knowledge and experience of the industry why not.

Though it's worth noting that the majority of WON's coverage is WWE related. I'd say my views on modern WWE align far closer to Bryan Alvarez's do than they would Dave himself (who brings up considered criticisms but is also far more patient with WWE booking and, I feel, possibly overly generous to WWE match analysis). And I would say that WON have guys on their network who are far more generous to WWE than what the actual product deserves like Lance Storm, Mike Sempervive ect. That's not to say they are WWE shills or anything of the sort, but they're clearly guys who are fans of WWE who are maybe more positive or sympathetic to the some of the pitfalls of modern WWE than perhaps others would be. As you know Beakerjoe, I'm also a subscriber to Voices of Wrestling, I think they do great analysis and their views on current WWE are far far harsher than anything on WON (even Alvarez).

I absolutely believe that anyone who listens to the coverage they put out everyday would not believe that they go to bat for AEW at all, to me that's a wrestling myth.

And, I'll add on, this idea of balance (oh we criticised WWE earlier so we must criticise AEW now) is a nonsense. You call it as you see it. Either something is bad or something is good. It doesn't matter what company produces it. And people saying "well WWE gets hammered all the time by these dirtsheets" but that's because it stinks! The main roster product stinks. 2020 was, by far and away, the worst year of any wrestling company I follow that I've ever seen. With no crowds to mask some of the awfullness, they leaned in so hard on The Fiend stuff (who cleaned up in the "worst" categories stuff btw) and other nonsense, they pushed so many guys who are beyond stale, the TV is just so lifeless and then there's the weird storyline continuity stuff and WWE promo issues to boot, nobody who has watched Hogan TNA or dying days WCW can tell me that stuff is worse than current main roster WWE is right now!

LineOfBeauty

J. Marston wrote: »

He was getting "Please retire" chants back in 2015 but he's an astute signing that will hurt Vince badly in 2021.

Give me a break.

Looking forward to seeing where "he will hurt Vince badly" was ever brought up on this board.

That a guy whose been under contract for 22 years suddenly ups and leaves is interesting for sure.

But he is an astute signing. A guy that WWE never used properly. A guy with experience, name recognition and a different look to anyone in AEW. And as a way to help prop up their new YouTube show, absolutely he's a worthwhile signing. Booked correctly, as an attraction in a big match every so often absolutely he's a worthwhile signing.

Also, the irony here is that the reason Big Show in AEW is interesting compared to Big Show on Raw in 2021 or in 2015 is because they've won people's trust with their booking, whereas you can take quite literally any wrestler on the planet, stick them in a WWE main roster environment and they instantly become less interesting than they would be elsewhere because, as fans, we've been burned far too many times by that company's booking.

Also, am I getting these metrics or not?

J. Marston

Common sense is your metric.

Thinking Jon Moxley is a bigger draw or "box office star" (the fact he's above Khabib in those awards says how prestigious they are, by the way...) than Roman, Sasha and Orton or Edge for that matter is fúcking dumb.

beakerjoe

J. Marston wrote: »

He was getting "Please retire" chants back in 2015 but he's an astute signing that will hurt Vince badly in 2021.

Give me a break.

Im no AEW loyalist, and Im no Big Show fan, but there is value in signing The Big Show.

Peoples gripes about Big Show is how he was booked by WWE (repetitive booking for years and years).

I have no doubt AEW will use him wisely. Miro aside, they appear to be using talent a hell of a lot better than WWE. He has some value, hes no game changer, but he can add to their product.

LineOfBeauty

J. Marston wrote: »

Common sense is your metric.

Thinking Jon Moxley is a bigger draw or "box office star" (the fact he's above Khabib in those awards says how prestigious they are, by the way...) than Roman, Sasha and Orton or Edge for that matter is fúcking dumb.

Perfect, when I do my next work report I'm sticking down "common sense" as a metric because that, being so easily quantifiable and measurable, is absolutely a metric that will be taken seriously.

You can absolutely debate the MMA guys in that category (and Dave notes that the top MMA stars are clearly bigger stars than the wrestlers listed because you can base that on actual metrics) but if you're talking purely pro wrestling you've not managed to produce a single metric by which you can prove any of Roman, Sasha, Orton (who has been a big ratings loser in multiple Raw main event quarter, his latest one having run off a huge amount of the female demo) or Edge (who, to the best of my knowledge hasn't popped a single number in his quarter following his Rumble win which is absolutely crazy) are "box office stars."

But hey, at least there's always common sense to fall back on.

beakerjoe

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

As you know Beakerjoe, I'm also a subscriber to Voices of Wrestling, I think they do great analysis and their views on current WWE are far far harsher than anything on WON (even Alvarez).

VOW coverage is as objective as it gets. Rich and Joe and other talking heads call it fair.

VOW IMO are much harsher critics of WWE than Dave and co.

I think both sites want WWE to improve and AEW to succeed, as the end result is better wrestling in the USA for everyone.

Im a WWE fan primely myself, its been there since I began watching..... I have a love of their product as WWF brought me to the pro wrestling dance. But I enjoy AEW a hell of more because for most part they dont dumb it down, they treat me like Im intelligent and I trust them to get the best out a a talent, no matter how over the hill or lame they are.

beakerjoe

J. Marston wrote: »

Common sense is your metric.

Thinking Jon Moxley is a bigger draw or "box office star" (the fact he's above Khabib in those awards says how prestigious they are, by the way...) than Roman, Sasha and Orton or Edge for that matter is fúcking dumb.

Its not dumb.

Look at how AEW have transformed the former Dean Ambrose. Roman and Sasha are as close to stars as WWE can do. Sasha hasnt been used great (though shes been used better than most). Roman has only been back since August after repeated failed pushes.

Id rather see Mox in AEW than Sasha or Roman in WWE. Less said about Orton the better. Sasha and Roman may be stars but the way WWE presents them neuters them, Sasha in particular.

LineOfBeauty

beakerjoe wrote: »

VOW coverage is as objective as it gets. Rich and Joe and other talking heads call it fair.

VOW IMO are much harsher critics of WWE than Dave and co.

I think both sites want WWE to improve and AEW to succeed, as the end result is better wrestling in the USA for everyone.

Im a WWE fan primely myself, its been there since I began watching..... I have a love of their product as WWF brought me to the pro wrestling dance. But I enjoy AEW a hell of more because for most part they dont dumb it down, they treat me like Im intelligent and I trust them to get the best out a a talent, no matter how over the hill or lame they are.

Absolutely, and I don't think they take pot shots, and they discuss it in an intelligent manner and break it down with the same level of scrutiny that they do any other pro wrestling company that they follow.

WWE got me into pro wrestling too, I enjoy going back and watching the shows I enjoyed before (I'm going through 1997 right now on the Network). And when it's good, I've no issue saying as such.

The dumbing down thing is interesting. I watched this weeks NXT this morning. My housemate was in the room half paying attention, half working. The main event with Kross and Escobar was playing out, I thought it was a really good match, he starts laughing and says "how many times are they going to explain the rules of it?" and it made me pay attention to just how many times they did the "it's all perfectly legal bit" and my God it must have been (legit) a dozen times in that match. It's a tiny example that me, being so numb to WWE speak, wouldn't have picked up on but that he (a non fan) thought was hilarious that they have to speak down to their audience so much.

And we've had plenty of debates on here in the past but I respect that when you come at a topic you justify it and give justification for it.

Itssoeasy

All I want is for the wresting media to call balls and strikes(I’m mixing up sports) on the wrestling companies and more so on the two major ones. I don’t like WWE 100% nor do I dislike AEW 100%. I thing there are good and bad points to both companies but you’d swear that wwe is Satan and AEW can do no wrong when that’s not the case in any way. I wish WWE would improve to a point where they don’t treat the audience like idiots. Also, my one wish for 2021 in wrestling is that Michael Cole retires from announcing. If that happens I’ll be happy.

I don’t understand at times why modern wrestling needs to just get rid of the psychology of wrestling just because it’s the year 2021. You shouldn’t and couldn’t do some of the things done before in wrestling but yet we have a industry where the vast majority of wrestlers both male and female are better athletes yet then don’t use that to their advantage. Instead we get a mix of a bad SNL skit and gymnastics. I don’t want unfunny comedy. And I don’t like unnecessarily dangerous stunts where the wrestlers are out at risk. There’s no need for it.

TL;DR i want wrestling that looks like a athletic contest where it’s done safe. I want some kind of logic and not just **** thrown against a wall and flashing lights constantly. And I want things to mean something. Surely to Christ we can do that in 2021 ? And both wwe and aew are guilty of both and wish they’d fix it.

Agent Coulson

Wasn't Dave an actual paid employ of the WWF/E at one time?

beakerjoe

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

And we've had plenty of debates on here in the past but I respect that when you come at a topic you justify it and give justification for it.

On this, like I feel sometimes I may come across as petty or nitpicking a product, esp one Ive enjoyed whether it be the recent EC or AEW Dynamite. I call it as it as I see it.

Im a fan of AEW and WWE..... or broadly a wrestling fan. I want it all to be great. I will critique it all. No product is perfect and I will pick at things because I enjoy it and like debating how it can be improved. Whether its the booking of Brandon Cutler or the push of Roman Reigns.

But its all subjective. Some may agree with my take on Big Show, some may disagree with the booking of O'Khan in NJPW, or even how much I enjoy Cameron Grimes or Omos.

Me and you might not always see eye to eye, but I enjoy our discussion.

LineOfBeauty

beakerjoe wrote: »

On this, like I feel sometimes I may come across as petty or nitpicking a product, esp one Ive enjoyed whether it be the recent EC or AEW Dynamite. I call it as it as I see it.

Im a fan of AEW and WWE..... or broadly a wrestling fan. I want it all to be great. I will critique it all. No product is perfect and I will pick at things because I enjoy it and like debating how it can be improved. Whether its the booking of Brandon Cutler or the push of Roman Reigns.

But its all subjective. Some may agree with my take on Big Show, some may disagree with the booking of O'Khan in NJPW, or even how much I enjoy Cameron Grimes or Omos.

Me and you might not always see eye to eye, but I enjoy our discussion.

You're going for a nitpicking approach, I'm going for a cannonball approach but we're both AEW marks for thinking Big Show is a good get for AEW.

And why would anyone who watches hours of content want it to be bad? Like this week alone I've probably watched close to 9 hours of first run WWE content. Why would I want those 9 hours to be bad?

Agent Coulson

If you ever wonder where Monty Brown is now I just came across him browsing on Lance Archer's Twitter from 4/5 months ago.

https://twitter.com/LanceHoyt/status/1316517932369940480?s=20

J. Marston

Sowing seeds?

https://twitter.com/TheNotoriousMMA/status/1365436645500141569

https://twitter.com/TripleH/status/1365453622331527173

ThePott

J. Marston wrote: »

Sowing seeds?

https://twitter.com/TheNotoriousMMA/status/1365436645500141569

https://twitter.com/TripleH/status/1365453622331527173

Ugh

Itssoeasy

J. Marston wrote: »

Sowing seeds?

https://twitter.com/TheNotoriousMMA/status/1365436645500141569

https://twitter.com/TripleH/status/1365453622331527173

Oh Jesus **** off. Not you J or triple h. The other lad.

Necro

It's gonna happen isn't it

Maybe not now, but when fans come back fully

Sirsok

Whats the issue?

Just a general distain for McGregor?

Agent Coulson

Well he is an alleged multiple time rapist with cases before the courts so there is that.

beakerjoe

I dont want this Scumbag near Wrestling.

Hes a scummer with money. Wrestling doesnt need more scum.

Sirsok

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Well he is an alleged multiple time rapist with cases before the courts so there is that.

Isnt Austin is a woman beater.

Tyson is an actual convicted rapist.

I didn't see much hullabaloo with Austin podcasting in the Network or Tyson appearing on AEW.

Not that I necessarily agree with McGregor appearing, I did a piece recently where I question weather you can appreciate the art without liking the person. Its something I struggle with, I just find the thing interesting especially as you correctly pointed out these are alleged crimes.

beakerjoe

Sirsok wrote: »

Isnt Austin is a woman beater.

Tyson is an actual convicted rapist.

I didn't see much hullabaloo with Austin podcasting in the Network or Tyson appearing on AEW.

Not that I necessarily agree with McGregor appearing, I did a piece recently where I question weather you can appreciate the art without liking the person. Its something I struggle with, I just find the thing interesting especially as you correctly pointed out these are alleged crimes.

No one is disputing there are other scummy individuals in wrestling.

I certainly voiced my concerns about Tyson in AEW.

Wrestling needs less scumbags.

Sirsok

It certainly does and I don't think McGregor is an individual I would particularly like seeing involved in WWE.

Maybe one day it will come back to haunt them, especially this whole deal with Saudi. Its just a bit mad that public sentiment seems to be so negative surrounding him yet these corporations like UFC and WWE associate with McGregor.

I think I read somewhere they wanted OJ Simpson involved after his trial at Mania, which is wild.

Agent Coulson

Piper vs OJ was set for WM12 we got the the Goldust match instead.

B.A._Baracus

beakerjoe wrote: »

I dont want this Scumbag near Wrestling.

Hes a scummer with money. Wrestling doesnt need more scum.

That's it pretty much.
Like fair play to McGregor he's a good fighter and made millions. That said you just know he is some skanger from Crumlin.

Agent Coulson

WWE don't care really about McGregor or what he is alleged to have done they have been dealing Fury and his management company MTK and The Saudi's in the last year it all about the money they don't care where that money or how dirty that money is comes from.

beakerjoe

Agent Coulson wrote: »

WWE don't care really about McGregor or what he is alleged to have done they have been dealing Fury and his management company MTK and The Saudi's in the last year it all about the money they don't care where that money or how dirty that money is comes from.

Yeah, theyve been in the gutter since forever, no amount of Be A Star PR will change that.

savemejebus

Lads it's a carny business, built on dishonesty. Fans are literally 'marks' to them.

It's much less tiring to be surprised when they do the right thing rather than the wrong.

JP Liz V1

https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2021/02/photo-christian-shows-physical-transformation-for-wwe-royal-rumble/

Christian to work part time schedule

Riddle101

I wish Christian would go to AEW but he's older now and probably wants to finish his career in WWE which I totally respect also.