Wrestling News & Rumours Thread ***NO CHAT***

beakerjoe

The White Wolf wrote: »

Well I was coming more from the angle of why waste your breath on Cornette rather than defending him.

Just to be clear, in no way do I condone Cornette's unfortunate all too often outbursts. Once the guy start calling people pedophiles I was done taking him seriously.

If you ignore him he will eventually go away. Corny wants attention.... while I agree he should be called out, it does no good.

Necro

beakerjoe wrote: »

If you ignore him he will eventually go away. Corny wants attention.... while I agree he should be called out, it does no good.

Cornette is one of those attention vampires that will suck the life out of you much in the way Piers Morgan, Trump et al do similar. Nothing is off limits with these type of people, they are driven by their own egos and desire for the spotlight.

The best thing everyone can do is starve them of that attention they so desperately crave

beakerjoe

Necro wrote: »

Cornette is one of those attention vampires that will suck the life out of you much in the way Piers Morgan, Trump et al do similar. Nothing is off limits with these type of people, they are driven by their own egos and desire for the spotlight.

The best thing everyone can do is starve them of that attention they so desperately crave

100 percent.

As a wrestling mind, yeah he was very talented.

But they guy is an asshole. His takes are designed to be controversial. He gets attention by publishing his controversial takes.

Ignore him and you cut off his relevance. Responding to him keeps him relevant.

LineOfBeauty

beakerjoe wrote: »

100 percent.

As a wrestling mind, yeah he was very talented.

But they guy is an asshole. His takes are designed to be controversial. He gets attention by publishing his controversial takes.

Ignore him and you cut off his relevance. Responding to him keeps him relevant.

My take is he was a guy with a mind for the business but anything he's had a hand in over the last 20 years has been a disaster. He wasn't able to keep up with wrestling.

And he's a grifter. Plain and simple. In the same way you see these far right accounts espouse the dumbest opinions possible to attract attention, Cornette is the wrestling equivalent of that. He hates AEW, but he keeps watching and reviewing it because that's what his subscribers listen to him for.

After he left the NWA, he wasn't on your screen unless you seek him out and if you're seeking out a guy whose opinions on women and people of minority are what his are then that's on you as a person.

Sirsok

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

My take is he was a guy with a mind for the business but anything he's had a hand in over the last 20 years has been a disaster. He wasn't able to keep up with wrestling.

And he's a grifter. Plain and simple. In the same way you see these far right accounts espouse the dumbest opinions possible to attract attention, Cornette is the wrestling equivalent of that. He hates AEW, but he keeps watching and reviewing it because that's what his subscribers listen to him for.

After he left the NWA, he wasn't on your screen unless you seek him out and if you're seeking out a guy whose opinions on women and people of minority are what his are then that's on you as a person.

What are his views on women or people of minority?

ThePott

For the record I only posted the tweets for the basis of discussion, I couldn't give two sh1tes what that arse thinks.

The White Wolf

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

My take is he was a guy with a mind for the business but anything he's had a hand in over the last 20 years has been a disaster. He wasn't able to keep up with wrestling.

And he's a grifter. Plain and simple. In the same way you see these far right accounts espouse the dumbest opinions possible to attract attention, Cornette is the wrestling equivalent of that. He hates AEW, but he keeps watching and reviewing it because that's what his subscribers listen to him for.

After he left the NWA, he wasn't on your screen unless you seek him out and if you're seeking out a guy whose opinions on women and people of minority are what his are then that's on you as a person.

Oft quoted but he was right on Kevin Steen and El Generico so to say he's contributed nothing in 20 years is a tad disingenuous.

savemejebus

The White Wolf wrote: »

Oft quoted but he was right on Kevin Steen and El Generico so to say he's contributed nothing in 20 years is a tad disingenuous.

Careful now, that's veering away from 21st century party line. Wrestling is woke now, you can't say people are too small, uncharismatic or untalented unless the group mind and the lord Meltzy has approved your opinion with at least a 4* rating.

Jim Cornette helped train the last generation of genuine, mainstream, stars.

People can question his booking all they like but his eye for talent is peerless.

Sirsok

Sirsok wrote: »

I enjoy his take on wrestling. Sometimes it seems he is playing a bit of a character in the fact he doesn't take joy from alot of stuff.

But on his points concerning logic, I find myself agreeing with him.

For instance the Jericho and MJF beating up Young Bucks father. That was a good take, especially if they just turn Jericho face. Would Young Bucks not still have a grudge to bare. I appreciate the story still has room for development but I don't think they will go back to that. It was a way to got shot the fued , but possibly shortsighted

He cares about wrestling and he can see it dying. People talk about "adapting" but it's all just shuffling around the deckchairs and making it even less likely to ever make a recovery.
He made the point maybe a year ago that I think it was Smokey Mountain drew a rating in a small tri-state area that corresponded to 250k people if I remember correctly. It wasn't in a "Look how great we were" kind of way, it was to point out how low the national shows getting the ratings they're getting now really is. AEW doesn't even match the utter basket case that was TNA in the ratings which is just mind-boggling.
He points out that in the 60s/70s the top earning sportsmen in the world were boxers and wrestlers. Not any more. The midcard guys used to pull in as much if not more than some of the midcarders now, not even adjusted for inflation. Cash. And there were a lot more of them.
There were 10s of thousands at shows all across the states every night of the week even in the downtimes.
The people involved took it seriously. Even if it was "Just a show", it came through in the product. People could allow themselves to enjoy it. Now it's all winks and allusions and 4th-wall breaking. Great for internet buzz but that's about it.

Those are the issues he has. He gets wound up and talks for about 10 hours a week on wrestling and he says one word you're not allowed say any more and it's open season. I'm not naive enough to think he's an innocent because the fact he'll never back down or just say "Yeah, poor choice of words" and move on shows he's happy enough to keep going with the controversy. If other people are making a living killing the business then why shouldn't he take a piece of it?

NITRO95

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Jim Cornette helped train the last generation of genuine, mainstream, stars.

People can question his booking all they like but his eye for talent is peerless.

Just out of interest who exactly did Jim Cornette train?

LineOfBeauty

Sirsok wrote: »

What are his views on women or people of minority?

Not going to get into it because I'd rather now discuss any of the topics on this thread or board but the line he used to get fired from NWA was a racist line he's used in the past too. Also using the N word in the past too. His comments previously about Aubrey Edwards and now Penelope are pretty much what you'd expect of him. And his comments about Sonny Kiss were horrible and homophic and transphobic. Again, I'm not jumping into a debate about any of that.

Lithium93_

NITRO95 wrote: »

Just out of interest who exactly did Jim Cornette train?

He hasn't trained anyone, at least according to Google. But would he not have overseen OVW as head booker/show writer when the likes of Cena, Lesnar, Orton & Batista were coming through?

NITRO95

Lithium93_ wrote: »

He hasn't trained anyone, at least according to Google. But would he not have overseen OVW as head booker/show writer when the likes of Cena, Lesnar, Orton & Batista were coming through?

Yea but that's not training. That's booking and running a TV show. Nobody says Gedo trained Tetsuya Naito and Kazuchika Okada just because he's been NJPW booker for the past 12 years

savemejebus

NITRO95 wrote: »

Yea but that's not training. That's booking and running a TV show. Nobody says Gedo trained Tetsuya Naito and Kazuchika Okada just because he's been NJPW booker for the past 12 years

Training is more than just the physical thing. There is psychology, character developmentand promo work and Cornette would have been heavily involved in that.

None of that is an excuse to be a douchebag but like anything you have to separate the artist from the art. It's harder to do in this case cos the mind and the mouth are so interlinked but you can't discount his contributions and in some cases his critiques because they're outnumbered by his bullshïte these days

Sirsok

NITRO95 wrote: »

Yea but that's not training. That's booking and running a TV show. Nobody says Gedo trained Tetsuya Naito and Kazuchika Okada just because he's been NJPW booker for the past 12 years

When looking to find his racist comments online,I came across Mark Henry discussing his disappointment in Cornettes NWA comments, and he credited Cornette by saying he would not be who he is without him.

beakerjoe

Lithium93_ wrote: »

He hasn't trained anyone, at least according to Google. But would he not have overseen OVW as head booker/show writer when the likes of Cena, Lesnar, Orton & Batista were coming through?

Just because he over saw them doesnt mean he made them.

Brock is a one in a million talent. Hed be big with or without Corny.

Cena, Orton and Batista werent hits when they were first called up.

Id say any booker could have done what Cornette did for them. It just happened to be him.

I dont think any of the above credit Cornette with making it big.

NITRO95

beakerjoe wrote: »

Just because he over saw them doesnt mean he made them.

Brock is a one in a million talent. Hed be big with or without Corny.

Cena, Orton and Batista werent hits when they were first called up.

Id say any booker could have done what Cornette did for them. It just happened to be him.

I dont think any of the above credit Cornette with making it big.

The Prototype was never in WWE tv. John Cena was about to be fired before the Vanilla Ice bit he did that impressed Stephanie backstage

Batista was a demon from the sea in OVW. Went on to debut as a Deacon on Smackdown and was going nowhere until HHH got behind him

Randy Orton was a third generation wrestler. He was always gonna be a star and its arguable to what level of stardom he has actually achieved.

Brock Lesnar was a can't miss once in a lifetime athlete that Gerry Briscoe and Jim Ross had marked as a main eventer long before Jim Cornette even knew his name.

But yea he trained them all.......

So WWE were about to fire Cena and Batista because they were so bad but then miraculously, out of nowhere, overnight, they were stars...

You've just tore the arse out of your own argument.

beakerjoe

Cena was 2 weeks away from being fired.

Batista was going nowhere until Mark Jinderak pissed away his Evoution spot.

If they had been fired , no one would have noticed. Just lads gropued together with other failed WWE rookies.

Cena was more a less a hot act they fell into.

Batista was a guy who learnt most from being in the inner circle of HHH and Flair.

Both reached their potential in time... Id say they exceeded their perceived porential massively.

beakerjoe

And it be foolish to say Cornette didnt have influence on them, but he did not make them stars.

LineOfBeauty

beakerjoe wrote: »

And it be foolish to say Cornette didnt have influence on them, but he did not make them stars.

From a purely wrestling POV the dude's been out of the loop for nearly 20 years. His failures as a booker are numerous and plentiful.

Lithium93_

Cena himself has said as such here about almost being fired...

https://www.sportskeeda.com/wwe/wwe-history-why-john-cena-was-almost-fired-by-the-wwe-and-who-saved-him

beakerjoe

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

From a purely wrestling POV the dude's been out of the loop for nearly 20 years. His failures as a booker are numerous and plentiful.

Just because hes a failed booker doesnt mean hes no good qualities though. I agree hes outdated and stuck in the past, but hes not completely brutal.

beakerjoe

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Cena himself has said as such here about almost being fired...

https://www.sportskeeda.com/wwe/wwe-history-why-john-cena-was-almost-fired-by-the-wwe-and-who-saved-him

Had Cena been fired here,.... Luther Reigns would be more well known.

If anyone, Stephanie got behind him and sold him to Vince. Cena got a chance and connected with the crowd. That wasnt down to Corny.

LineOfBeauty

beakerjoe wrote: »

Just because hes a failed booker doesnt mean hes no good qualities though. I agree hes outdated and stuck in the past, but hes not completely brutal.

Oh ye and from a history POV that's fine but, personally I've no interest in listening to him or following him. Unfortunately every so often he'll say something hateful and my timeline is inundated for a few hours.

beakerjoe

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Oh ye and from a history POV that's fine but, personally I've no interest in listening to him or following him. Unfortunately every so often he'll say something hateful and my timeline is inundated for a few hours.

Hes best left in the past. Beyond being takiing head on Dark side of the ring, and other docs, Ive no time for his modern takes.

Hes better off ignored

bennyl10

beakerjoe wrote: »

Just because hes a failed booker doesnt mean hes no good qualities though. I agree hes outdated and stuck in the past, but hes not completely brutal.

at the moment, in 2021, he adds absolutely zero of worth to wrestling.

He's a troll. Nothing more.

For me, the more people that call out his garbage for what it is the better

beakerjoe

bennyl10 wrote: »

at the moment, in 2021, he adds absolutely zero of worth to wrestling.

He's a troll. Nothing more.

For me, the more people that call out his garbage for what it is the better

How?

It fuels him.... its puts the spotlight on him, it makes him relevant..... how is that for the better?

If hes a troll.....dont feed him.

savemejebus

bennyl10 wrote: »

at the moment, in 2021, he adds absolutely zero of worth to wrestling.

Disagree:- you might not like it but someone needs to point out stupid ****e like someone still standing after 8 superkicks to the face.

bennyl10 wrote: »

He's a troll. Nothing more.

Agree:- he's a super troll but until people stop knee-jerk reacting to his behaviour and feeding him he'll just continue.....

Actually, he has a fanbase so he will just continue anyway but he'll stop trending in people just stop feeding the troll.