Wrestling News & Rumours Thread ***NO CHAT***

sky88

I just imagine Vince walking around the performance center shouting I’m above the law like big Ernie McCracken at the end of kingpin

sky88

Well aew are still doing double or nothing

Us Wrestlings top 2 companies United in stupidity running shows

https://twitter.com/aewrestling/status/1250207920916135937?s=21

Monokne

WWE beginning to get publicity for Vince being a terrible, sh*t human being and valuing profit over peoples health:

https://www.thenation.com/article/society/wwe-mcmahon-florida-coronavirus/

leggo

Monokne wrote: »

WWE beginning to get publicity for Vince being a terrible, sh*t human being and valuing profit over peoples health:

https://www.thenation.com/article/society/wwe-mcmahon-florida-coronavirus/

Why are you so determined to push the line that Vince McMahon is evil when he's doing it at the mercy of contracts he's legally obliged to fulfil from USA and Fox? Why should they not step in and release WWE from their obligation as ESPN did for UFC? And why do you expect the company to essentially risk committing suicide, which would impact staff at the lower end far worse than the McMahon family, while the business interests of those at USA/Fox are protected?

You're coming across as tunnel-visioned in that you're only looking for evidence that proves the preconceived notion you've convinced yourself of. This is the real world man. Nobody operates the benevolent way you're suggesting. If pubs and small business weren't ordered to shut by government restrictions here, they likely wouldn't have shut at all and toughed it out, because when you ask businesses to close of their own volition people are deciding not to feed their families or the families of the staff members. Nobody is going to voluntarily make that decision for themselves, even if it absolutely needs to happen, which is why bigger entities need to step in. But you hold Vince and WWE (a f'n wrestling company like) to this ridiculously high standard and he's a **** human being if he doesn't jump a hurdle that you yourself likely wouldn't.

Omackeral

Basically, somehow, WWE is deemed necessary in league with hospitals, fire service, supermarkets etc. Absolutely stinks from not only McMahon but whoever’s palms he’s greasing.

And yet someone will still defend that on here or at least spin it.

leggo

It's possible to have an opinion between 'evil' and 'reasonable'. You just have to think for more than a second about why something is happening, what the consequences would be and who's responsible for that. It is ridiculous that wrestling is still running and I've said it should stop already, it is ridiculous that it's considered an essential business when it's clearly not, but it's being done to fulfil contractual obligations so it's ridiculous to expect companies to commit suicide. Nobody does that willingly. That's literally why Leo pops up on your TV and makes those decisions for companies.

Put the heat where it belongs instead of these stupid, ignorant, melodramatic viewpoints not based in reality. All you're doing is telling me and anyone who can understand the situation why you're not in a position to make these kind of decisions. Not one person making these claims is acknowledging the fact that ESPN let UFC off the hook and they shut down 249 instantly because it shows up the argument you're desperate to push.

Omackeral

McMahon continued the show while Owen Hart died during a broadcast. He interviewed Melanie Pillman live on Raw a mere 24 hours after her husband Brian passed away. He was adamant that WrestleMania ran on his network, not any national or affiliates.

He is and always has been an absolute megalomaniac oddball*.




*Adding Disclaimer since nuance is seemingly sent by the wayside with some posters, whether by design or intentionally. I'm not saying the networks and the government aren't scummy either, they are. There's corruption throughout this whole shady debacle.

Blanco100

Why are people surprised?

Anyone remember Steph's line "Philantropy is the future of marketing"? Rookie move at the time to say it publicly.

This is an organisation that will do anything to get ahead.

leggo

Again, for me, the smoking gun here comes back to us now knowing about the amount of pre-taped shows they can have in their schedule. We didn't know that a week ago, that information isn't publicly available, so how do we know it now? The networks definitely didn't leak it because it points the public eye directly on them, WWE did.

Why would they change their mind on pre-taping at the final hour and leak that info? They know it's bad, they know it's dangerous, they need an excuse but can't be aggressive and outright say it in statements either because that jeopardises future relations, whereas you can play off a leak. It's a provocative move and puts the networks in a corner. Which suggests to me they want to stop and be released from their obligations while this plays out. That's VERY different to "Vince is just a stubborn crazy guy who only cares about money."

Monokne

leggo wrote: »

Why are you so determined to push the line that Vince McMahon is evil when he's doing it at the mercy of contracts he's legally obliged to fulfil from USA and Fox? Why should they not step in and release WWE from their obligation as ESPN did for UFC? And why do you expect the company to essentially risk committing suicide, which would impact staff at the lower end far worse than the McMahon family, while the business interests of those at USA/Fox are protected?

You're coming across as tunnel-visioned in that you're only looking for evidence that proves the preconceived notion you've convinced yourself of. This is the real world man. Nobody operates the benevolent way you're suggesting. If pubs and small business weren't ordered to shut by government restrictions here, they likely wouldn't have shut at all and toughed it out, because when you ask businesses to close of their own volition people are deciding not to feed their families or the families of the staff members. Nobody is going to voluntarily make that decision for themselves, even if it absolutely needs to happen, which is why bigger entities need to step in. But you hold Vince and WWE (a f'n wrestling company like) to this ridiculously high standard and he's a **** human being if he doesn't jump a hurdle that you yourself likely wouldn't.

There has been no reporting or evidence that Fox or USA have insisted on live programming. The sole report was from Dave who said the contract with USA permits 3 taped shows a year. He doesn't know about Fox. There have been no reports - including from Dave - that Fox and/or USA are holding their feet to the fire threatening to cancel if the show are not live.

It's also extremely unlikely USA or Fox would cancel the programmes outright if they were to air taped shows given the bad PR that would engender given the current climate. In particular, USA needs WWE badly to keep their station above water.

To be really blunt Leggo, if you are framing this as 'Vince has to run live shows or his business is going to shut down', then please, just don't reply to me because you know how ridiculous that is yourself. There is literally no suggestion that is happening here, nor do the finances or the reality bear that out.

You are claiming that I am tunnel visioned but you're clearly reading half of what I've written. I understand the business reasoning behind the decision. In the same way as I understand the business reasons for running Saudi Arabia 3 weeks after Khashoggi was hacked up. It's important for his business to be profitable.

I don't think that justifies or rationalises the danger he is placing his performers and everyone they come into contact with by insisting on continuing to run.


I don't think Vince McMahon is evil. I think he is a person who has a history of prioritising his business over the health and safety of the people who work for him and that is laid bare here. Do you seriously want to debate me on that? Genuinely? Don't conflate the issues here - directly answer me on that if you want to have a proper discussion. Does Vince McMahon prioritise his business, or peoples health? Now and in the course of the last 35 years? That is the issue here. There are other successful people who are similarly wired but it's hard to think of anyone so egregiously and overtly placing profit above safety.

For example, do you think Vince's business would be badly affected if he didn't ask 70 year old, high risk, Jerry Lawler to get on a plane this week to Florida? Directly answer that please.

In my book he is a piece of sh*t. That is my firmly held opinion and I think history and the evidence pretty bloody strongly back it up.

If you choose to think 'we live in a capitalistic society and so he has to do what he has to do to remain as profitable as possible' etc, go ahead. I just disagree and there is nothing you're going to say that is going to convince me otherwise.

Oh, and don't tell me what I would or wouldn't do because you don't know my value system, and you're wrong.

Monokne

Omackeral wrote: »

McMahon continued the show while Owen Hart died during a broadcast. He interviewed Melanie Pillman live on Raw a mere 24 hours after her husband Brian passed away. He was adamant that WrestleMania ran on his network, not any national or affiliates.

He is and always has been an absolute megalomaniac oddball*.




*Adding Disclaimer since nuance is seemingly sent by the wayside with some posters, whether by design or intentionally. I'm not saying the networks and the government aren't scummy either, they are. There's corruption throughout this whole shady debacle.

https://www.fanbyte.com/wrestling/the-owen-hart-police-report-is-a-chilling-reminder-of-wwes-history-with-worker-safety/

Within the police report of Owen Harts death, it states:

- WWE had used an expert rigger for his stunt multiple times who refused to allow the stunt go ahead with a quick release mechanism as it endangered Owens life. Vince decided to stop using this person as he was adamant that the release be quicker.

- WWE had the rigger who did Sting lined up to replace the first guy but refused to pay what he asked and went with a cheap, inexperienced assistant to the chap who rigged Sting. When the original rigger heard this he contacted WWE and offered to do it at the same price as he was concerned for Owens safety, but he never heard back.

Owen Hart fell 78 feet to his death because savings money and making greater profit, along with creating better television, were a greater priority to Vince McMahon than Owen Hart's safety.

Omackeral

Monokne wrote: »

Vince decided to stop using this person as he was adamant that the release be quicker.

The man is a carny in a business suit.

Monokne

Remember, Roman Reigns had to pull himself off Wrestlemania. Vince wanted him to perform.

Presumably the life and death of WWE was also at stake there?

Itssoeasy

I know vince gets **** for continuing the show after Owen fell and then was pronounced dead at the hospital and he will have to live what that decision for the rest of the life but why didn't the Kansas City police department shut down the event giving the catwalk where Owen fell from was now a crime scene and the ring given he landed there would surely have been one also ? I've never read exactly what the police in Kansas City did that night.

Monokne

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I know vince gets **** for continuing the show after Owen fell and then was pronounced dead at the hospital and he will have to live what that decision for the rest of the life but why didn't the Kansas City police department shut down the event giving the catwalk where Owen fell from was now a crime scene and the ring given he landed there would surely have been one also ? I've never read exactly what the police in Kansas City did that night.

Nothing, basically.

If Vince's crime was negligence, the police's was incompetence.

Omackeral

Monokne wrote: »

Remember, Roman Reigns had to pull himself off.

We've all been there brother Monokne.

Monokne

Omackeral wrote: »

We've all been there brother Monokne.

****1/2

Omackeral

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I know vince gets **** for continuing the show after Owen fell.

I could almost forgive Vince for that as it was a huge call in the moment. The live crowd had no idea what was happening. It was a panic situation to say the least. Interviewing Pillman's widow live on RAW a day after he died was as crass as it gets to me. Melanie wasn't even a performer, just a grieving real life woman on a pro wrestling show. Downright disgusting.

Monokne

Omackeral wrote: »

I could almost forgive Vince for that as it was a huge call in the moment. The live crowd had no idea what was happening. It was a panic situation to say the least. Interviewing Pillman's widow live on RAW a day after he died was as crass as it gets to me. Melanie wasn't even a performer, just a grieving real life woman on a pro wrestling show. Downright disgusting.

Go and watch that show on the network:

- They plug the Melanie interview before every single commercial break as the primary ratings driver on the show
- He finishes with the question "how do you think you as a single mother will support your 6 children now?"

A reminder as well that they were implicitly asked by Martha Hart not to use footage of Owen Harts funeral on Raw, but they did.

Itssoeasy

Monokne wrote: »

Go and watch that show on the network:

- They plug the Melanie interview before every single commercial break as the primary ratings driver on the show
- He finishes with the question "how do you think you as a single mother will support your 6 children now?"

A reminder as well that they were implicitly asked by Martha Hart not to use footage of Owen Harts funeral on Raw, but they did.

I watched the raw after the bad blood PPV and had kind of forgotten before which PPV pillman had died but I was watching it for the first hell in a cell and it was uncomfortable at the time but Jesus Christ it's worse now. I've said before here but what was vince thinking doing that ?

leggo

Monokne wrote: »

There has been no reporting or evidence that Fox or USA have insisted on live programming. The sole report was from Dave who said the contract with USA permits 3 taped shows a year. He doesn't know about Fox. There have been no reports - including from Dave - that Fox and/or USA are holding their feet to the fire threatening to cancel if the show are not live.

It's also extremely unlikely USA or Fox would cancel the programmes outright if they were to air taped shows given the bad PR that would engender given the current climate. In particular, USA needs WWE badly to keep their station above water.

To be really blunt Leggo, if you are framing this as 'Vince has to run live shows or his business is going to shut down', then please, just don't reply to me because you know how ridiculous that is yourself. There is literally no suggestion that is happening here, nor do the finances or the reality bear that out.

You are claiming that I am tunnel visioned but you're clearly reading half of what I've written. I understand the business reasoning behind the decision. In the same way as I understand the business reasons for running Saudi Arabia 3 weeks after Khashoggi was hacked up. It's important for his business to be profitable.

I don't think that justifies or rationalises the danger he is placing his performers and everyone they come into contact with by insisting on continuing to run.


I don't think Vince McMahon is evil. I think he is a person who has a history of prioritising his business over the health and safety of the people who work for him and that is laid bare here. Do you seriously want to debate me on that? Genuinely? Don't conflate the issues here - directly answer me on that if you want to have a proper discussion. Does Vince McMahon prioritise his business, or peoples health? Now and in the course of the last 35 years? That is the issue here. There are other successful people who are similarly wired but it's hard to think of anyone so egregiously and overtly placing profit above safety.

For example, do you think Vince's business would be badly affected if he didn't ask 70 year old, high risk, Jerry Lawler to get on a plane this week to Florida? Directly answer that please.

In my book he is a piece of sh*t. That is my firmly held opinion and I think history and the evidence pretty bloody strongly back it up.

If you choose to think 'we live in a capitalistic society and so he has to do what he has to do to remain as profitable as possible' etc, go ahead. I just disagree and there is nothing you're going to say that is going to convince me otherwise.

Oh, and don't tell me what I would or wouldn't do because you don't know my value system, and you're wrong.

"If you disregard the reason this is happening, which I'm acknowledging in this very post then immediately minimising, then the reason it's ACTUALLY happening is actually MY reason."
- This post.

Like I said, tunnel vision and ignoring all facts to get to the point you want to make.

Monokne

I knew you wouldn't respond to any of the points I made as you knew you'd no point yourself. Good lad.

leggo

Monokne wrote: »

I knew you wouldn't respond to any of the points I made as you knew you'd no point yourself. Good lad.

There's nothing to answer! You acknowledged what was reported and that Dave Meltzer is citing that as a likely reason for it happening...then just effectively said "But we don't KNOW that's the case." Then argued with points I wasn't making. Do you want me to quote every paragraph and say "I didn't say that" in response?! What are you looking for here? :pac:

Sirsok

Monokne wrote: »

****1/2

Would of been 8 stars if in Tokyo dome

J. Marston

The annoying thing about trying to keep track of it live on Reddit and Twitter is so much false information is being spread.

Monokne

Riddle101 wrote: »

Looks like WWE is making some cut backs. You can also add Kurt Angle, Sarah Logan and Mike Chioda to this list.

https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2020/04/wwe-releases-8-superstars-669298/

Why thank you Captain Obvious

weareallmarks

Chill lads chill

It is just difficult to fathom how with 50mil cash you cant cover a roster who cant get another job during a pandemic .... It is bad timing.

Reasoning is not something we can comment on because we havent seen the contract they signed.

BUT, much like not everyone should go to college, alot of the people resleased will not be missed. A round of firings would be happening soon anyway with the amount of excess they have hired over the last few years

sky88

ahh god no

https://twitter.com/WWE/status/1250790077854334981?s=20

Angron

Damn it, RIP

JP Liz V1

sky88 wrote: »

ahh god no

https://twitter.com/WWE/status/1250790077854334981?s=20

RIP

Covid19?