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Incident at Lost Lane on Saturday

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    #392
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,161 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    MrFresh wrote: »
    How so?
    Brian? wrote:
    Culture is an issue. Not skin tone. It has no part to play.
    Christ Almighty, I can scarcely believe what I read sometimes. OK, let's break out the crayons...

    Take someone with dark skin in a light skinned country, someone who stands out in a crowd among the background population, where the indigenous locals are one colour and they're another. Why would they be more likely to be poor, undereducated, more involved in crime? Have an oul think, let the wheels grind for a while. I mean you're the types waiting to shout "racism", yet your politic is so blinkered you miss the bloody obvious where it's most in play(of course its more complex than that, but like the actual racists, your progressives don't share a bed with complexity if they can avoid it). You could not make this up.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #393
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,424 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Danzy wrote: »
    I never thought Some one on the modern Left would think that.

    Genuinely.

    Think what exactly? That skin tone doesn't modulate criminal behaviour?

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #394
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,161 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Il Fascista wrote: »
    So on one hand there's the stance that we must allow these people to live in our country, then on the other there's the stance that we marginalize them once they live here. If we didn't let them in we'd be called heartless, yet when they're let in we're supposedly the cause of their suffering. So conveniently it's our fault regardless of what we do and never theirs. White guilt truly is a sickness!
    Well it's partly that. More the oppressed/oppressor narrative common in current political thought, particularly though not exclusively on the "left". Feminism is built on it, as are Race studies. Anything with the sniff of "intersectionality" or "progressiveness" is laden down with it. Even the "right" are contaminated with it, looking for someone to blame.

    For me it's much more about a system that is inherently built to fail in the medium to longterm; that is multiculturalism in western liberal societies. It doesn't work, it hasn't worked and hasn't worked for the guts of a century(it certainly didn't work in the previous centuries. Look at Ulster FFS, same "race" even believe in the same sky fairy yet...) and it's highly unlikely to work, yet we keep running the same stupid experiment whenever possible in the nebulous hope that this time it'll work. Ireland is the latest testbed for this failed ideology and both "locals" and immigrants both recent and newly minted Irish folks born here will suffer because of it.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #395
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,424 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Christ Almighty, I can scarcely believe what I read sometimes. OK, let's break out the crayons...

    Take someone with dark skin in a light skinned country, someone who stands out in a crowd among the background population, where the indigenous locals are one colour and they're another. Why would they be more likely to be poor, undereducated, more involved in crime? Have an oul think, let the wheels grind for a while. I mean you're the types waiting to shout "racism", yet your politic is so blinkered you miss the bloody obvious where it's most in play(of course its more complex than that, but like the actual racists, your progressives don't share a bed with complexity if they can avoid it). You could not make this up.

    You have just made this up. This is absolute nonsense.


    You are taking an incredibly complex subject and largely reducing it to skin tone. It's complete and total nonsense.

    The main reason people are undereducated, poor etc. is because their parents were the same. And despite what people would have you believe, the more "free market" an economy becomes the lower social mobility gets. So poor uneducated immigrants arrive and due to a lack of social mobility their children are likely to be poor and uneducated.

    Skin tone has **** all to do with it.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #396
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Christ Almighty, I can scarcely believe what I read sometimes. OK, let's break out the crayons...

    Take someone with dark skin in a light skinned country, someone who stands out in a crowd among the background population, where the indigenous locals are one colour and they're another. Why would they be more likely to be poor, undereducated, more involved in crime? Have an oul think, let the wheels grind for a while. I mean you're the types waiting to shout "racism", yet your politic is so blinkered you miss the bloody obvious where it's most in play(of course its more complex than that, but like the actual racists, your progressives don't share a bed with complexity if they can avoid it). You could not make this up.


    While a person in the position you describe is more likely to be black, they are not in that position because they are black. What you are describing is indirect discrimination. A black person is more likely to be at the brunt of it but not as a result of their skin colour. I hope that helped you scribble inside the lines with your crayon.


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    #397
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,161 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    MrFresh wrote: »
    A black person is more likely to be at the brunt of it but not as a result of their skin colour.
    You actually typed that sentence out? There isn't a facepalm meme vibrant enough to telegraph my reaction to that. OK, let's flip it, if a White person of the same basic social background is less likely, then why is that?

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #398
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,090 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Brian? wrote: »
    What a gross oversimplification.

    If people commit crimes, they are to blame. 100%.

    As for "white guilt", that's not something I suffer from. I don't feel guilty for anyone's suffering, I didn't cause it either directly or indirectly.


    In bold I totally agree with. What most people here don't understand is that we have a policy of deporting immigrants convicted of serious crime. They must serve their sentence first. On release from prison they are handcuffed & brought back to their own country by a Gardai Detective. There are detectives whos only roll is to do this. This happens to immigrants However it does not happen to Irish citizens. You will find that most or even all of the 20 guys from Saturday night are actually Irish citizens.



    These guys should be punished if convicted the same as anyone else


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    #399
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,161 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Brian? wrote: »
    The main reason people are undereducated, poor etc. is because their parents were the same. And despite what people would have you believe, the more "free market" an economy becomes the lower social mobility gets. So poor uneducated immigrants arrive and due to a lack of social mobility their children are likely to be poor and uneducated.
    Man the gift that keeps on giving... OK then, let's look at immigrants in immigrant ex colony nations of the world. Take the US as that's the more familiar and about as free market a nation one can find in the West and was even more so in the past. Jews, Chinese, Germans, Scandinavians showed up to the new lands and the vast majority were "huddled masses" coming through Ellis Island from dirt poor backgrounds and yet...

    More recent history and on the cultural front. The Vietnamese Boat people in the 70's and 80's. They were poor refugees, yet their kids and grandkids are better educated and more successful on average than the background cultures they ended up in. In the US they're way ahead of African Americans and ahead of European Americans for that matter. Within under two generations. Asian Americans in general are better paid than all other American ethnicities on average and American society is hardly proactively Asian.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #400
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    Wibbs wrote: »
    You actually typed that sentence out? There isn't a facepalm meme vibrant enough to telegraph my reaction to that.


    Still struggling with understanding the difference between direct and indirect discrimination? You know, you don't have to lash out when you don't understand something. You can just ask for clarification.

    Wibbs wrote: »
    OK, let's flip it, if a White person of the same basic social background is less likely, then why is that?


    If two people have the same backgrounds and circumstances, their skin colour won't effect their likelihood of being involved in crime.


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    #401
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Man the gift that keeps on giving... OK then, let's look at immigrants in immigrant ex colony nations of the world. Take the US as that's the more familiar and about as free market a nation one can find in the West and was even more so in the past. Jews, Chinese, Germans, Scandinavians showed up to the new lands and the vast majority were "huddled masses" coming through Ellis Island from dirt poor backgrounds and yet...

    More recent history and on the cultural front. The Vietnamese Boat people in the 70's and 80's. They were poor refugees, yet their kids and grandkids are better educated and more successful on average than the background cultures they ended up in. In the US they're way ahead of African Americans and ahead of European Americans for that matter. Within under two generations. Asian Americans in general are better paid than all other American ethnicities on average and American society is hardly proactively Asian.


    You specifically mentioned London. Why are you now going to the US? Is it because your point doesn't stand up on this side of the Atlantic? The US is different because it had specific laws discriminating directly against people because of their colour up until a few decades ago. We don't have the same kind of background here.


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    #402
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Brian? wrote: »
    You have just made this up. This is absolute nonsense.


    You are taking an incredibly complex subject and largely reducing it to skin tone. It's complete and total nonsense.

    The main reason people are undereducated, poor etc. is because their parents were the same. And despite what people would have you believe, the more "free market" an economy becomes the lower social mobility gets. So poor uneducated immigrants arrive and due to a lack of social mobility their children are likely to be poor and uneducated.

    Skin tone has **** all to do with it.

    There are a large amount of Chinese and other Asian people in Ireland. How come we aren't seeing Asian gangs roaming the DART looking for trouble??


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    #403
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,090 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    weldoninhio wrote:
    There are a large amount of Chinese and other Asian people in Ireland. How come we aren't seeing Asian gangs roaming the DART looking for trouble??


    Wasn't there an all out street battle in Dublin a couple of years ago. Two gangs of Asians as far as I remember. Meat cleavers, slash hooks and possibly a samurai sword if memory serves.


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    #404
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,090 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    A quick google search
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/the-night-the-bloody-triad-wars-erupted-on-the-streets-of-dublin-37185349.html

    https://www.thejournal.ie/dundon-murder-crime-3756350-Dec2017/
    https://www.herald.ie/news/detectives-launch-huge-crackdown-on-triad-gangs-29196810.html


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    #405
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    A quick google search



    https://www.thejournal.ie/dundon-murder-crime-3756350-Dec2017/

    They are organised crime gangs, well except from the one story you pulled from 1979 :rolleyes:. Where are all the teenage Asians running riot?? We have a huge Indian and Pakistani community here too. No sign of them gangs either.


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    #406
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,090 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    They are organised crime gangs, well except from the one story you pulled from 1979 :rolleyes:. Where are all the teenage Asians running riot?? We have a huge Indian and Pakistani community here too. No sign of them gangs either.




    You know for a fact that these 20 guys aren't from an organized crime gang? Then you must know who these 20 guys are from Saturday night obviously? You need to go to Gardai with this information. It might even be an offense by not going to Gardai with this information that you & only you have.


    Crimestoppers is a partnership between the Gardai and the business community. You can give information to the Gardai about any criminal investigation using the confidential freephone number 1800 25 00 25. This confidential freephone number is staffed by members of the Garda National Bureau of Criminal Investigation


    I've included the phone number there for you


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    #407
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    You know for a fact that these 20 guys aren't from an organized crime gang? Then you must know who these 20 guys are from Saturday night obviously? You need to go to Gardai with this information. It might even be an offense by not going to Gardai with this information that you & only you have.






    I've included the phone number there for you

    You know, as well as I, and most people on this thread, that they were young black lads looking for trouble. They mores likely had organised to rush the door, hence the petrol bombs, hatchets and iron bars. Bury your head all you want. Same as the West Dublin "postcode" gangs and the Balbriggan troublemakers.


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    #408
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,090 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    You know, as well as I, and most people on this thread, that they were young black lads looking for trouble. They mores likely had organised to rush the door, hence the petrol bombs, hatchets and iron bars. Bury your head all you want. Same as the West Dublin "postcode" gangs and the Balbriggan troublemakers.




    You don't know anything of the sort. You are making assumptions & trying to pass them off as facts to suit your argument.


    The West Dublin (Blanchardstown) & Balbriggan gangs are a totally different matter & not connected to this nice bunch of lads. The lad arrested was 20. The DART gangs are young teens. I'm talking 12 to 16. they are also very White for the most part. Wrong nationality, are & colour


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    #409
    Boxing.Fan
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Boxing.Fan


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    . I'm talking 12 to 16. they are also very White for the most part. Wrong nationality, are & colour

    Can you back this up with some evidence?


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    #410
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    Boxing.Fan wrote: »
    Can you back this up with some evidence?


    I'm sure he can produce evidence to the same standard as the likes of weldoninhio who appears to think he is living in Detroit.


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    #411
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    People tend to hold onto their identity when the emigrate. Irish people become painfully more Irish when they go overseas. Integration is a nice idea and it works fine here if you actually pay attention and actually get out of the house.
    What’s anyone complaining about immigration doing to help with integration here I wonder

    If Irish are failing to integrate into societies then I don't at all agree with that and think they should integrate. I disagree with people holding onto their culture when they emigrate Irish or not I don't want to integrate into another society so guess what I don't emigrate to another country.

    The onus should be on the immigrants to take the initiative to integrate not the host nation. We're doing them a favour by letting them live not the other way around. If they don't want to integrate then they should go home or better still stay at home in the first place.


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    #412
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    If Irish are failing to integrate into societies then I don't at all agree with that and think they should integrate. I disagree with people holding onto their culture when they emigrate Irish or not I don't want to integrate into another society so guess what I don't emigrate to another country.

    The onus should be on the immigrants to take the initiative to integrate not the host nation. We're doing them a favour by letting them live not the other way around. If they don't want to integrate then they should go home or better still stay at home in the first place.


    I think you are confusing integrate with assimilate.


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    #413
    Standman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭Standman


    Do you know what the common denominator in all these attacks is? Men. Men are failing to integrate.


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    #414
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    Standman wrote: »
    Do you know what the common denominator in all these attacks is? Men. Men are failing to integrate.


    Mammals in general.


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    #415
    JohnMc1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭JohnMc1


    Standman wrote: »
    Do you know what the common denominator in all these attacks is? Men. Men are failing to integrate.

    Yeah, I'm sure the Women and children would be better. If we actually getting any. Not counting the boys that are 12 going on 25.


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    #416
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,090 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Boxing.Fan wrote: »
    Can you back this up with some evidence?


    I live in Dublin 5. This is one of the areas targeted by the DART gangs. I am also a member of a local Facebook group with over 7000 members. Members would photo these groups & post to the closed group & pass onto the Gardai. There have been group meetings with local politicians & Gardai & members of the community . A superintendent has been at these meetings also. These gangs have been hitting Raheny, Clontarf, Killester, Kilbarrack, Bayside, Portmarnock, Malahide etc for over a year. Some have been taken away by the Gardai & held till their parents collect them. I don't claim to know everything about these gangs but I know a lot more about them than your average keyboard warrior from god knows what part of the country. I have seen photos & videos. The Gardai have also indicated what part of the city they come from. These are homegrown children. Very young teens. Problems spike during mid term breaks & summer holidays.



    These kids aren't part of the gang form Saturday night. I'm not even sure why any poster would try link the two groups? It doesn't prove a point or win an argument. It might serve as deflection but I really can't imagine why anyone would try link two totally separate things like that.


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    #417
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,090 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Standman wrote: »
    Do you know what the common denominator in all these attacks is? Men. Men are failing to integrate.




    Men have falling IQs maybe?


    There was one girl with that gang on Saturday night. All the guys look like scumbags in tracksuits & hoodies. She wore a tight mini dress. She looked dressed smart enough to get into a club without difficulty. The guys would have difficulty getting into a local Spar shop let alone a club


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    #418
    Boxing.Fan
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Boxing.Fan


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    I live in Dublin 5. This is one of the areas targeted by the DART gangs. I am also a member of a local Facebook group with over 7000 members. Members would photo these groups & post to the closed group & pass onto the Gardai. There have been group meetings with local politicians & Gardai & members of the community . A superintendent has been at these meetings also. These gangs have been hitting Raheny, Clontarf, Killester, Kilbarrack, Bayside, Portmarnock, Malahide etc for over a year. Some have been taken away by the Gardai & held till their parents collect them. I don't claim to know everything about these gangs but I know a lot more about them than your average keyboard warrior from god knows what part of the country. I have seen photos & videos. The Gardai have also indicated what part of the city they come from. These are homegrown children. Very young teens. Problems spike during mid term breaks & summer holidays.



    These kids aren't part of the gang form Saturday night. I'm not even sure why any poster would try link the two groups? It doesn't prove a point or win an argument. It might serve as deflection but I really can't imagine why anyone would try link two totally separate things like that.

    Well that poster you arguing with is from the area. Are you gonna flat out deny the existence of African Irish gangs targeting the dart line.


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    #419
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,090 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Boxing.Fan wrote: »
    Well that poster you arguing with is from the area. Are you gonna flat out deny the existence of African Irish gangs targeting the dart line.


    How do you know what area he/she is from?


    There are several groups. The only videos & photos I have seen over the last year have been fat white boys & girls. There has been no reports of any non white groups in the Dublin 5 area. As of the last meeting with the Gardai (a few days before the local elections) there have been no reported attacks by non white children in the Dublin 5 area in the last year or so.


    So lets break this down for you. No photos of black kids, no videos of black kids & no reported crime in the Dublin 5 area with black kids. I can't make it any simpler for you. Just because you really, really want something to be a certain way doesn't make it so. Ask yourself why does it mean so much to you that you want it to be black kids when it's really white kids? It tells me a lot about you.


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    #420
    Tasfasdf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 660 ✭✭✭Tasfasdf


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    How do you know what area he/she is from?


    There are several groups. The only videos & photos I have seen over the last year have been fat white boys & girls. There has been no reports of any non white groups in the Dublin 5 area. As of the last meeting with the Gardai (a few days before the local elections) there have been no reported attacks by non white children in the Dublin 5 area in the last year or so.


    So lets break this down for you. No photos of black kids, no videos of black kids & no reported crime in the Dublin 5 area with black kids. I can't make it any simpler for you. Just because you really, really want something to be a certain way doesn't make it so. Ask yourself why does it mean so much to you that you want it to be black kids when it's really white kids? It tells me a lot about you.

    Head in the sand.


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    #421
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    How do you know what area he/she is from?


    There are several groups. The only videos & photos I have seen over the last year have been fat white boys & girls. There has been no reports of any non white groups in the Dublin 5 area. As of the last meeting with the Gardai (a few days before the local elections) there have been no reported attacks by non white children in the Dublin 5 area in the last year or so.


    So lets break this down for you. No photos of black kids, no videos of black kids & no reported crime in the Dublin 5 area with black kids. I can't make it any simpler for you. Just because you really, really want something to be a certain way doesn't make it so. Ask yourself why does it mean so much to you that you want it to be black kids when it's really white kids? It tells me a lot about you.


    You're talking to people who only see further proof in a lack of evidence. If there is no proof it's because the leftist media is covering it up so, to them, that's even more convincing.


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