Incident at Lost Lane on Saturday

NIMAN

scumbags are scumbags, its irrelevant what colour their skin is.

Drumorig

Omackeral wrote: »

Exactly. Like this sh*tebag also called Moses. Killed his poor ma. If you’ve ever met him he sounds exactly like a Dub because, well, he is one.

[img][/img]https://m-independent-ie.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/m.independent.ie/migration_catalog/ed120/25033337.ece/AUTOCROP/w800/m

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/man-26-jailed-for-life-for-killing-his-mother-1.981509%3fmode=amp


Black people can be Irish ffs. It’s ridiculous to think otherwise. I’d love to know how long someone’s family has to be here before they can “allowed” to be Irish. How many generations is acceptable?

He was born in Kenya though. Where is he anyway, I thought he'd be doing life in dundrum no?

Wibbs

Brian? wrote: »

Nice and arbitrary

One could say similar for "if someone is born here/has an Irish passport then they're Irish". It's just as arbitrary.

If anything the passport example is more so. On the jus soli loophole just being born here made one a citizen and parents were given rights of residency(a trend that is going the other way even in nations that were traditionally jus soli), so therefore "Irish". That's extremely arbitrary. A box ticked.

If say Korea had the same setup and I moved there with I dunno a French wife and had a kid in Seoul, would I "become" Korean? Doesn't really compute. I certainly wouldn't consider myself Korean in that case. My Korean born kid? That gets more complex, but I'd hardly consider them "fully" Korean and I doubt native Koreans would either. If they turned out to be recidivist criminals quadruple that. If I felt or considered Korean culture to not reflect many of my values rack that difference up again. When a now deleted(not a shock) survey by by the immigrant council of Ireland reported that [Nigerians] are strongly likely to feel that they do not have many values in common with Irish people. that is hardly very "Irish", is it?

It's an interesting debate going right to the heart of what it means to be [insert nationality here] and the rights and more, the responsibilities of same. For a nation like America, where much of the born here/swearing allegiance/a passport makes you local comes from that's an easy and obvious conclusion as only a tiny proportion of that European colony are actually Americans and like any colony relied upon becoming American to exist and survive. Even so they've dialled right back on that compared to their huddled masses of the past. For ex European imperial nations something similar is going on. Certainly with a nation like France that extended citizenship, being "French", to anyone born within their old empire. That's not going so well for them.

Wibbs

NIMAN wrote: »

scumbags are scumbags, its irrelevant what colour their skin is.

A nice idea and if stats and history reflected that then it would be even nicer. The facts are - and this plays out in every single multicultural European nation - those of African ancestry are much more likely to show up in the criminal stats as perpetrators, and victims for that matter, than East Asians and the local White population(native or no). East Asians the least likely of all. Ditto for the stats on teen pregnancy, divorce and one parent families. Find me one single example were those trends are different?

Now to be clear this is in the multicultural West. The colour of skin isn't the direct cause, because if you look at the same stats for nations in Africa their numbers are lower than White nations and close to Asian nations. It seems that multiculturalism philosophy itself is the problem and since no other Western multicultural nation has a different narrative, or has found a way to change it, then we'll be looking down the same barrel and it seems already are barely 20 years into it.

Brian?

Wibbs wrote: »

One could say similar for "if someone is born here/has an Irish passport then they're Irish". It's just as arbitrary.

It isn't though. If you hold an Irish passport you're legally Irish. It's a pretty clear distinction.

If anything the passport example is more so. On the jus soli loophole just being born here made one a citizen and parents were given rights of residency(a trend that is going the other way even in nations that were traditionally jus soli), so therefore "Irish". That's extremely arbitrary. A box ticked.

If say Korea had the same setup and I moved there with I dunno a French wife and had a kid in Seoul, would I "become" Korean? Doesn't really compute. I certainly wouldn't consider myself Korean in that case. My Korean born kid? That gets more complex, but I'd hardly consider them "fully" Korean and I doubt native Koreans would either. If they turned out to be recidivist criminals quadruple that. If I felt or considered Korean culture to not reflect many of my values rack that difference up again. When a now deleted(not a shock) survey by by the immigrant council of Ireland reported that [Nigerians] are strongly likely to feel that they do not have many values in common with Irish people. that is hardly very "Irish", is it?

It's an interesting debate going right to the heart of what it means to be [insert nationality here] and the rights and more, the responsibilities of same. For a nation like America, where much of the born here/swearing allegiance/a passport makes you local comes from that's an easy and obvious conclusion as only a tiny proportion of that European colony are actually Americans and like any colony relied upon becoming American to exist and survive. Even so they've dialled right back on that compared to their huddled masses of the past. For ex European imperial nations something similar is going on. Certainly with a nation like France that extended citizenship, being "French", to anyone born within their old empire. That's not going so well for them.

Different countries have different rules, yes. I don't see it as an "interesting discussion" at all. People entitled to citizenship of a country can claim that nationality. Keep it simple and move on.

People can maintain and enjoy their own culture without denying nationality to others who don't share that culture. It's not a difficult concept.

ExMachina1000

Brian? wrote: »

It isn't though. If you hold an Irish passport you're legally Irish. It's a pretty clear distinction.



Different countries have different rules, yes. I don't see it as an "interesting discussion" at all. People entitled to citizenship of a country can claim that nationality. Keep it simple and move on.

People can maintain and enjoy their own culture without denying nationality to others who don't share that culture. It's not a difficult concept.

Any thoughts on the incident anyway?

Brian?

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Any thoughts on the incident anyway?

Yep. I shared them when it happened, it was bad.

Blondini

Will he have to defer his medical studies whilst imprisoned?

ExMachina1000

Brian? wrote: »

Yep. I shared them when it happened, it was bad.

Twas. Ah I'm sure they have all grown out of it now. Probably working in tech these days

Wibbs

Brian? wrote: »

It isn't though. If you hold an Irish passport you're legally Irish. It's a pretty clear distinction.

It's an entirely legal distinction. Clearly one that is far too simplistic. I find when "it's the law" is offered up as an explanation it's usually a empty one. Under Irish law a Trans man is legally a man, but biologically and medically they most certainly aren't. Technically they could decide to reverse that and "become" a woman again. That's a legal distinction too. Never mind that the history of humanity is filled with as many bad laws unfit for purpose as good ones.

Different countries have different rules, yes. I don't see it as an "interesting discussion" at all.

Because you can't discuss it? I suspect that's far more at play. Because if you were to discuss it you'd have to ignore too many factors you want to ignore.

People entitled to citizenship of a country can claim that nationality. Keep it simple and move on.

People can maintain and enjoy their own culture without denying nationality to others who don't share that culture. It's not a difficult concept.

Only it seems it is and it's not so simple, or this debate wouldn't even be happening. And it's one that's happening in every single multicultural European nation. And it's one where it's the same narratives and trajectories along demographic lines.

kildare lad

NIMAN wrote: »

scumbags are scumbags, its irrelevant what colour their skin is.

While colour might be irrelevant to you , how come youths from an African origin tend to be more involved in violent crime and anti social behavior compared to youth from china, eastern europe or any other countries we've taken refugees from . It's happened in my own town with 2 african teens beat someone with a hammer last year and only a few weeks ago a gang of 5 african teens pulled two lads off a bus a kicked the **** out of them. It's happening all over Dublin where's there's high amounts of African people living . I've a feeling that a lot of more places in Dublin will end like ghettos in london due to their behavior. The only culture a lot of them seem to have , is to act like thugs in street gangs in America or England.

kildare lad

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Any thoughts on the incident anyway?

Poor asylum seeker lashes out due to racism and a feeling of isolation from the native population. But he'll turn his life around by studying medicine in Mountjoy and becoming a highly respected doctor when he gets released.

Brian?

Wibbs wrote: »

It's an entirely legal distinction. Clearly one that is far too simplistic. I find when "it's the law" is offered up as an explanation it's usually a empty one. Under Irish law a Trans man is legally a man, but biologically and medically they most certainly aren't. Technically they could decide to reverse that and "become" a woman again. That's a legal distinction too. Never mind that the history of humanity is filled with as many bad laws unfit for purpose as good ones.

It's not too simplistic. It's appropriately simplistic.

Because you can't discuss it? I suspect that's far more at play. Because if you were to discuss it you'd have to ignore too many factors you want to ignore.

I am perfectly capable of discussing it. The problem is people like you want to add all this nuance that simple doesn't exist. If you're entitled to Irish citizenship, you're Irish. Done. I can repeat that 100 times if you want.

These "factors" you find so important are irrelevant to me.

Only it seems it is and it's not so simple, or this debate wouldn't even be happening. And it's one that's happening in every single multicultural European nation. And it's one where it's the same narratives and trajectories along demographic lines.

Actually it is simple. People spend an awful lot of time making simple concepts into difficult concepts . I would suggest some people, yourself included, have a peculiar talent for it.

Tipperary animal lover

People can maintain and enjoy their own culture without denying nationality to others who don't share that culture. It's not a difficult concept.

Like female mutilation, child trafficking, calling ireland a racists country while sitting in their 3 bedroom house payed by the tax payer.... so we have to just shut up and welcome everything that their culture has to offer, great little country work yourself into the ground and just turn a blind eye to anyone who wants to enter and live off of my back, which thiere is many, ive no problem with people coming here as long as they put their shoulder to the grid wheel and try make a good life for themselves, we have enough irish wasters

ExMachina1000

Tipperary animal lover wrote: »

People can maintain and enjoy their own culture without denying nationality to others who don't share that culture. It's not a difficult concept.

Like female mutilation, child trafficking, calling ireland a racists country while sitting in their 3 bedroom house payed by the tax payer.... so we have to just shut up and welcome everything that their culture has to offer, great little country work yourself into the ground and just turn a blind eye to anyone who wants to enter and live off of my back, which thiere is many, ive no problem with people coming here as long as they put their shoulder to the grid wheel and try make a good life for themselves, we have enough irish wasters

And if all else fails gather a crew, mask up, arm them with blunt force weapons and make a molotov cocktail.

Your crimes will be long forgotten but people will never stop defending how Irish you are. Crazy

end of the road

Omackeral wrote: »

Exactly. Like this sh*tebag also called Moses. Killed his poor ma. If you’ve ever met him he sounds exactly like a Dub because, well, he is one.



https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/man-26-jailed-for-life-for-killing-his-mother-1.981509%3fmode=amp


Black people can be Irish ffs. It’s ridiculous to think otherwise. I’d love to know how long someone’s family has to be here before they can “allowed” to be Irish. How many generations is acceptable?

no generations i would suspect.
only white people can be irish according to those who assume someone's name means they aren't irish.
that's from my personal experience of discussion with such individuals over the years on here and other fora.

Pkiernan wrote: »

Its important that we allow foreign criminals to commit crimes here and not deport them.

No better way for our workshy lefty student types to virtue signal to the world how woke we are as a nation.

Never mind if hard working taxpayers get hurt or killed in the process, its worth it.

we deport foreign criminals all the time, you just won't hear about it.
it's only when a situation arrises where we can't deport them that we hear about it.

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

2nd generation for EU
3rd generation for non EU

would second generation for EU citizens apply to black and brown people as well?
would third generation for non-EU citizens apply to white people as well?

ExMachina1000

end of the road wrote: »

would second generation for EU citizens apply to black and brown people as well?
would third generation for non-EU citizens apply to white people as well?

Yes.

Bonniedog

Bowie wrote: »

Thinking it's to do with 'all black people are saints' is your own hang up. He might be an arsehole and a Dub, it happens.

It's not my hang up at all. The left liberal narrative here is that if you are black then even if you do bad stuff - which they barely acknowledge anyway - then it is not your fault. Blame it on slavery or some such bollox which in the context of Nigerians and Kenyans and others is more likely to mean that your ancestors were slavers rather than slaves.

Ebun joseph's father worked for the Nigerian federal government during the Biafran war when the federal army murdered millions. And yet she comes here bullying imbeciles into thinking she's some sort of fkn victim. From one of the nastiest most corrupt ruling elites on the planet.

Wibbs

Brian? wrote: »

It's not too simplistic. It's appropriately simplistic.

If one has a simplistic viewpoint that doesn't reflect the complexity involved and needs to paper over the large cracks in the reality of multiculturalism.

I am perfectly capable of discussing it. The problem is people like you want to add all this nuance that simple doesn't exist. If you're entitled to Irish citizenship, you're Irish. Done. I can repeat that 100 times if you want.

I'm "entitled" to legally change my gender. It doesn't make me a an actual woman. Done. I can repeat that 100 times if you like too. To quote that misattributed old saw being born in a stable does not make one a horse.

These "factors" you find so important are irrelevant to me.

At what point do they become relevant for you?

Actually it is simple. People spend an awful lot of time making simple concepts into difficult concepts . I would suggest some people, yourself included, have a peculiar talent for it.

While I would suggest others ignore the obvious complexities and issues because, well it doesn't fit their worldview and politic and their worldview and politic can't explain the realites away nearly so simplistically. It's far easier to double down and adopt the three wise monkeys stance. Like that's worked out anywhere, ever.

Wibbs

Bonniedog wrote: »

It's not my hang up at all. The left liberal narrative here is that if you are black then even if you do bad stuff - which they barely acknowledge anyway - then it is not your fault. Blame it on slavery or some such bollox which in the context of Nigerians and Kenyans and others is more likely to mean that your ancestors were slavers rather than slaves.

The identity politics maxim of: [insert oppressed identity here] are always agentless victims and [insert oppressor identity here] are always to blame. It's just as divisive and simplistic as the racist narrative on the other side of things. Then again people love simple answers to complex questions and will even deny the complexity of the questions themselves.

Sleeper12

wexfordman2 wrote:

They won't be able to.do that much longer, goods imported into the north from the uk that are likely to end up in the south will be subject to tarrifs etc

What amazes me is that American intelligence picked up on this the day beforehand and put out a warning for US citizens. Just shows that socal media is scanned by them

Pkiernan

Any criminal that can be deported legally should be and must be.

How could any normal person disagree with this?

kildare lad

Bonniedog wrote: »

It's not my hang up at all. The left liberal narrative here is that if you are black then even if you do bad stuff - which they barely acknowledge anyway - then it is not your fault. Blame it on slavery or some such bollox which in the context of Nigerians and Kenyans and others is more likely to mean that your ancestors were slavers rather than slaves.

Ebun joseph's father worked for the Nigerian federal government during the Biafran war when the federal army murdered millions. And yet she comes here bullying imbeciles into thinking she's some sort of fkn victim. From one of the nastiest most corrupt ruling elites on the planet.

I suppose the most she's to worry about now is getting served ribena instead of wine at a hotel in galway . It's sort of first world problems she has now compared to Africa where there's widespread genocide , famine , tribal warfare, genital mutilation , even slavery going on today . If Ireland's that bad "Dr Ebun " you know where the airport is ....

Bonniedog

kildare lad wrote: »

I suppose the most she's to worry about now is getting served ribena instead of wine at a hotel in galway . It's sort of first world problems she has now compared to Africa where there's widespread genocide , famine , tribal warfare, genital mutilation , even slavery going on today . If Ireland's that bad "Dr Ebun " you know where the airport is ....

Nigeria covers all the bases, including the ongoing slaughter of black Christians who for some reason never seem to get here looking for sanctuary which they would be entitled to.

The FGM one is a scam. there was no FGM here up to 15 years ago. Now there are a large number of illegal operations, some of which reach court and which was only criminalised a few years ago.

And guess what? Some of the perpetrators were represented by Irish legal parasites and NGOs who told the "asylum seekers" to cite FGM as a reason they came here!

So, you claim asylum on basis of threat of FGM and then mutilate your daughter anyway. Or even better, send her back to the country you allegedly fled from to have the torture carried out.

We are the fkn Hobbits of this planet. Fall guys for any scumbag and chancer who gets here.

Sleeper12

Pkiernan wrote:

Any criminal that can be deported legally should be and must be.

I agree but the vast majority of the group in this case are Irish & have never lived in another country.

Most non Irish that go through the prison system get deported on competition of their sentence. They get escorted from the prison by immigration detectives

Eric Cartman

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I agree but the vast majority of the group in this case are Irish & have never lived in another country.

Most non Irish that go through the prison system get deported on competition of their sentence. They get escorted from the prison by immigration detectives

Evidence of this please, we deport a tiny number of people so I find it hard to believe

Omackeral

kildare lad wrote: »

While colour might be irrelevant to you , how come youths from an African origin them to be more involved in violent crime and anti social behavior compared to youth from china, eastern europe or any other countries we've taken refugees from .

The Chinese question is very fair to ask imo. I’ve asked it myself before.

end of the road

Tipperary animal lover wrote: »

People can maintain and enjoy their own culture without denying nationality to others who don't share that culture. It's not a difficult concept.

Like female mutilation, child trafficking, calling ireland a racists country while sitting in their 3 bedroom house payed by the tax payer.... so we have to just shut up and welcome everything that their culture has to offer, great little country work yourself into the ground and just turn a blind eye to anyone who wants to enter and live off of my back, which thiere is many, ive no problem with people coming here as long as they put their shoulder to the grid wheel and try make a good life for themselves, we have enough irish wasters

female mutilation is quite rightly illegal here, all be it we need to do way better in terms of catching anyone still engaging in it.
child trafficking is also quite rightly illegal and the same as above, it's also not a cultural specific issue to my knowledge, with individuals from all sorts of back grounds involved in it.
so someone in their 3 bedroomed house is calling ireland racist? well i'm sorry they feel that way but for me the sun will still rise in the morning and set in the evening.

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

And if all else fails gather a crew, mask up, arm them with blunt force weapons and make a molotov cocktail.

Your crimes will be long forgotten but people will never stop defending how Irish you are. Crazy

because criminality is separate to irishness.

Kivaro

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Evidence of this please, we deport a tiny number of people so I find it hard to believe

There was even an official report recently that stated that a large percentage of asylum seekers who exhausted all the lengthy and costly appeals process after asylum refusal just continue to live in Direct Provision indefinitely at our cost. It stated that deportation seldom happens. Of course, we all know what happens next. They become citizens via an amnesty program similar to the one the government is pushing through at the moment for the tens of thousands who are here illegally.

Why anyone would go through the legal process to immigrate here beats me. Just mention "asylum" and you get free housing within 3 months and social welfare for life for you and everyone you claim to be family under the reunification programme.

Regarding the FGM scam; thousands of Nigerians got Irish citizenship on the back of that excuse. The corresponding cruelty inflicted on babies in Ireland due to that "culture" is collateral damage all in the name of "diversity".

We are indeed a sick little country.

kildare lad

Omackeral wrote: »

The Chinese question is very fair to ask imo. I’ve asked it myself before.

The only answer you'll get will be excuses