kids throwing stones at cyclists

InTheShadows

Rechuchote wrote: »

Some kids belonging to some of the most upper-class families in their county were caught stringing tape across the road to stop cars and horses - really, really dangerous. They just hadn't thought. And they stopped when this was pointed out to them.

It annoys me when people go on about social housing as if it were inhabited by demons.

And some of the richest people living in some of the biggest houses in Ireland destroyed our society and economy (they still are) but should i view everyone who lives in a nice big house as one of these people, no of course i wouldn't.

Have to say it really grinds my gears some of the views from posters on here about social housing. The vast majority of people i knew when i lived in a social housing estate worked and where very decent skins. Was there cnuts living there of course there was but you'd want to a right numpty to paint everyone with the same brush because of the actions of a minority.

tunney

InTheShadows wrote: »

And some of the richest people living in some of the biggest houses in Ireland destroyed our society and economy (they still are) but should i view everyone who lives in a nice big house as one of these people, no of course i wouldn't.

Have to say it really grinds my gears some of the views from posters on here about social housing. The vast majority of people i knew when i lived in a social housing estate worked and where very decent skins. Was there cnuts living there of course there was but you'd want to a right numpty to paint everyone with the same brush because of the actions of a minority.

Is it though?

LollipopJimmy

niallo32 wrote: »

That's the one. They generally congregate in summer from the lock @ Parkwest down as far as the kissing gate at Bluebell

I had an incident on the Kylemore bridge last year, a group tried to take my phone, I was walking and about to enter the canal heading towards Inchicore. A perfectly timed elbow left the ring leader with an open face while the rest ran into Labre for backup, thankfully a passing taxi driver saw what was happening and called me into his car.

I'm not one for violence but I will happily kick **** out of any scrote that tries to steal from me or attack me.

InTheShadows

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yeah actually maybe they strolled over from Donnybrook or Clontarf to harass workers in the IFSC.
4 years cycling in London and you don't see street urchins there like we have here.

You must have been cycling blindfolded so. London has a massive problem with anti social behaviour with as you put them "street urchins". Iv'e a friend who gave in riding his motorbike into London because he had one bike robbed by lads with a battery operated grinder whilst it was locked up outside his job and the second bike was robbed (but recovered) by two lads on a scooter at a set of traffic lights with a knife whilst he sat up it. One guy simply got off and put the knife to his neck and told him to get off.

It doesn't mean these attacks in Dublin (yes throwing stones is an attack) are less worthy but let's not get all bent out of shape and go on like Dublin is some sort of crime infested pre Giuliani New York hellhole.

InTheShadows

tunney wrote: »

Is it though?

Yes it is. Iv'e first hand experience. Do you?

Hoboo

Rechuchote wrote: »

Some kids belonging to some of the most upper-class families in their county were caught stringing tape across the road to stop cars and horses - really, really dangerous. They just hadn't thought. And they stopped when this was pointed out to them.

It annoys me when people go on about social housing as if it were inhabited by demons.

When kids start acting the xxxxxx in a well off area the community puts a stop to it immediately. It's not accepted. When it happens in less affluent areas, it's accepted as the norm. Same goes for the travelling community.

So although there's only a few bad eggs, it's the acceptance and indifference of the community and lack of action which results in others suffering, so the community is every bit to blame, along with the perpatrators.

Hoboo

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

I had an incident on the Kylemore bridge last year, a group tried to take my phone, I was walking and about to enter the canal heading towards Inchicore. A perfectly timed elbow left the ring leader with an open face while the rest ran into Labre for backup, thankfully a passing taxi driver saw what was happening and called me into his car.

I'm not one for violence but I will happily kick **** out of any scrote that tries to steal from me or attack me.

Wait till you get a few blades pulled on you, see how the Rambo act goes.

Cabaal

Hoboo wrote: »

When kids start acting the xxxxxx in a well off area the community puts a stop to it immediately. It's not accepted. When it happens in less affluent areas, it's accepted as the norm.

I'd argue this isn't the case.
Instead I'd argue that in a more well off area it isn't accepted and the Gardai will quickly get involved because the local TD will pressure them in fear of loosing votes.

In less well of areas the Gardai are far less inclined to get involved as are TD's because they know these people likely won't "donate" much to the TD's next election fund.

InTheShadows

Hoboo wrote: »

When kids start acting the xxxxxx in a well off area the community puts a stop to it immediately. It's not accepted. When it happens in less affluent areas, it's accepted as the norm. Same goes for the travelling community.

So although there's only a few bad eggs, it's the acceptance and indifference of the community and lack of action which results in others suffering, so the community is every bit to blame, along with the perpatrators.

So you are saying people who have absolutely zero to do with these attacks (they more than likely don't even know the kids) are as much to blame as the kids themselves because they live in the same area? Come on that's incorrect. Are the people who lived beside David Drumm in a well off area as every bit to blame as Drumm himself for his actions?

Thelonious Monk

InTheShadows wrote: »

So you are saying people who have absolutely zero to do with these attacks (they more than likely don't even know the kids) are as much to blame as the kids themselves because they live in the same area? Come on that's incorrect. Are the people who lived beside David Drumm in a well off area as every bit to blame as Drumm himself for his actions?

I don't know if you've hung around dodgy parts of Dublin but I have over the years and things like throwing stones at weirdos cycling by is normal to them. The parents wouldn't really give a sh*t and would just let them away with it. Different standards in less well off rough areas. I'm sorry that's just how it is. It doesn't make it ok just because David Drumm or bankers are involved in white collar crime.

InTheShadows

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I don't know if you've hung around dodgy parts of Dublin but I have over the years and things like throwing stones at weirdos cycling by is normal to them. The parents wouldn't really give a sh*t and would just let them away with it. Different standards in less well off rough areas. I'm sorry that's just how it is. It doesn't make it ok just because David Drumm or bankers are involved in white collar crime.

And i never said it was okay, i was trying to say it's the norm and worse in a lot of countries. Scumbags exist everywhere. Upper class, middle class, lower class. I grew up in social housing and i can tell you the majority of parents did give a sh1t. The standards aren't different, people are people.

Thelonious Monk

InTheShadows wrote: »

And i never said it was okay, i was trying to say it's the norm and worse in a lot of countries. Scumbags exist everywhere. Upper class, middle class, lower class. I grew up in social housing and i can tell you the majority of parents did give a sh1t. The standards aren't different, people are people.

Ok I live in social housing area now and everyone is lovely. But Sherrifer is rough aul shop and from my experience kids are more likely to throw stones and annoy cyclists and passer by in these areas.

smacl

smacl wrote: »

Doesn't make it in any way acceptable though, does it? I note from this and other threads that many cyclists are afraid to use certain stretches of the Grand Canal due to attacks and muggings and this fear seems to be reasonably founded. How would you suggest we address this problem?

I don't think you'll find "acceptable" anywhere in my post.


In 200 years time we will still be having the same conversation, perhaps on a larger scale though as a two tiered society expands exponentially without any concern for the fundamentals of running a complex society and with grossly mismanaged social policy............Mind you, it's not an Irish problem, it seems much worse elsewhere...................

Save a euro in community spending - spend 10 euro in Prison spending.....

Rechuchote

Deleted User wrote: »

Save a euro in community spending - spend 10 euro in Prison spending.....

So, so true.

a148pro

Rechuchote wrote: »

So, so true.

I don't think this is an accurate or adequate explanation of things. Yes, resources help and probably help a lot, however they are unlikely to be able make up for not being parented right in the initial years of the kids lives.

I live in a mixed community, and previously lived close to the area people are reporting difficulty here (incidentally I cycled and ran that stretch maybe 30 times and never had any trouble)

You hear this argument about there not being resources put into these communities and that's why anti social behaviour happens. This is largely bs. There are a large amount of resources available in those areas. There's an excellent leisure centre, astro pitches and youth club less than 500 meters from where people are talking about.

I've attended any amount of free community events in these areas, where income is no impediment to attending. Strangely enough, its always the "middle" class parents who bring their kids to those events. Why? Because they are orientated towards appreciating those events and the importance of them for children's development / perspective. Why? Because their parents did the same. And, critically, because they've had the benefit of a good education. You can get so much out of our society if you want to and are motivated to do it.

In my local spar the veg section is the size of a telephone box. There's probably 8 meters of fizzy drinks. Why? Because that's what the demographic of the shop wants to buy, and buys for their kids. Because they don't know any better. You go half a mile up the road there's another spar with organic and actual food products and much less fizzy, because that's what the demographic there want.

When I was a kid we threw things at cars and buses. These kind of berries we pulled from a bush. We threw eggs at houses of neighbors who kept our footballs. Kids like to break rules, they always will, there's nothing new there. But I would never have done anything that might have hurt someone because I knew it was wrong. It was taboo. My kids won't do either, nor, I would expect, would any of my friends kids, at least not as a matter of course.

My eldest, when he was three, could not understand why people littered. Just couldn't understand how it could happen. Because he had adopted our values and had been told at some point that we don't do that. And we walking around people eating crisps and discarding the packet on the ground totally nonchalantly in the presence of their parents.

The reality is these kids don't get that example. I suspect they don't get the love. I doubt they get the same stories read to them every night. And they have bad role models in their communities who assert themselves in an anti social manner and get kudos and respect for doing that. Resources will help a bit with that, and some kids will come through pro social despite the lack of guidance, but the bottom line is parenting. The state should be providing that kind of education from an early age, and intervening if it isn't being provided or isn't going to be provided.

And has been pointed out, this isn't a class thing. I hate using the word "middle class" like above. Its about respect and raising your kids to respect other people. That has nothing to do with social class, you'll get people who don't do that at the upper echelons of our society and plenty of people who do it in "working class" communities. And the people who actually suffer the most from this behaviour are the people in those communities who have to put up with it every day.

I wish somebody would actually raise this as a political issue as the problem is just going to get worse.

average_runner

I grew up in an council estate and there was a good bit of trouble in it.
But it got handle by the locals in a good way.

The difference between now and then though, if you try to clamp down on the trouble, the PC Brigade group are out and the "poor family up bringing" is used.

Gardai don't want to get involved as it is pointless these days.

LollipopJimmy

Hoboo wrote: »

Wait till you get a few blades pulled on you, see how the Rambo act goes.

I grew up and went to school in an area that is now a 'no go' area. It was eat or be eaten so I will not be intimidated by these scrotebags. Don't get me wrong, I won't go looking for it but I will defend myself to the last

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

The 'nothing to do' nonsense has been spouted since time began, too. There's no end of things to do. There's clubs and groups and what-have-you all over the place. Whether you're into football, ballet, acting or woodworking there's a club for it.




There are thousands of bored kids around the country. They're not out assaulting people.

I never said there was nothing to do.... I said they were bored. You can flippantly dismiss any argument using the usual suspects such as "plenty to do", "lots of kids don't carry on like this", " I grew up in a rough neighborhood and I never" etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum......


There can be lots to do and certain sections of society and certain kids will not be involved or will not become involved for a variety of reasons.


Now you can blame parenting which is a big issue however those kids will also become parents at some stage and the cycle goes on. Why is this ??



My main point is that because of the social systems humans have designed since they turned to farming and large groupings (starting c.6500 years ago) they have created an unnatural state of existence which breeds disenfranchisement.


Sure there are hierarchic systems in nature but no animal society that I am aware of has managed to produce such large scale dysfunction and disaffection in its collectives on the scale that humans have.


I would go so far as to say that if we looked objectively at the last 50 years or so and the pace of accelerated financial speculation it is fairly obvious that rampant consumerism driven by corporate greed has decimated anything resembling a "society", and that what we believe to be a "society" is nothing of the sort.

It is a dysfunctional, illogical collective of Homo Sapiens (Wise Man!) who chiefly see each other as a "commodity". Perhaps one day we will be traded with a rating system on the stock exchange, bundled into AAA+ packages.......... The 2098 Global recession caused by speculation in the Bond Markets on Human Tranches of AAA+ rated collectives who were actually sub prime............. :-)



Ireland consists or roughly 1 million people who are "societal" in nature and behave in a manner which benefits "society" and themselves and another 3 million or so who are completely individualistic in nature and are self-deluded into thinking they exist within a "society" despite their egocentric behavior.


Trump and Johnson - prime example that true "society" has long since ceased to exist.


My 2 cents................



Disclaimer - Possibly complete tripe and way off the mark. Author takes no responsibility for his own musings. May contain a source of Nuts.

a148pro

a148pro wrote: »

I don't think this is an accurate or adequate explanation of things. Yes, resources help and probably help a lot, however they are unlikely to be able make up for not being parented right in the initial years of the kids lives.

I live in a mixed community, and previously lived close to the area people are reporting difficulty here (incidentally I cycled and ran that stretch maybe 30 times and never had any trouble)

You hear this argument about there not being resources put into these communities and that's why anti social behaviour happens. This is largely bs. There are a large amount of resources available in those areas. There's an excellent leisure centre, astro pitches and youth club less than 500 meters from where people are talking about.

I've attended any amount of free community events in these areas, where income is no impediment to attending. Strangely enough, its always the "middle" class parents who bring their kids to those events. Why? Because they are orientated towards appreciating those events and the importance of them for children's development / perspective. Why? Because their parents did the same. And, critically, because they've had the benefit of a good education. You can get so much out of our society if you want to and are motivated to do it.

In my local spar the veg section is the size of a telephone box. There's probably 8 meters of fizzy drinks. Why? Because that's what the demographic of the shop wants to buy, and buys for their kids. Because they don't know any better. You go half a mile up the road there's another spar with organic and actual food products and much less fizzy, because that's what the demographic there want.

When I was a kid we threw things at cars and buses. These kind of berries we pulled from a bush. We threw eggs at houses of neighbors who kept our footballs. Kids like to break rules, they always will, there's nothing new there. But I would never have done anything that might have hurt someone because I knew it was wrong. It was taboo. My kids won't do either, nor, I would expect, would any of my friends kids, at least not as a matter of course.

My eldest, when he was three, could not understand why people littered. Just couldn't understand how it could happen. Because he had adopted our values and had been told at some point that we don't do that. And we walking around people eating crisps and discarding the packet on the ground totally nonchalantly in the presence of their parents.

The reality is these kids don't get that example. I suspect they don't get the love. I doubt they get the same stories read to them every night. And they have bad role models in their communities who assert themselves in an anti social manner and get kudos and respect for doing that. Resources will help a bit with that, and some kids will come through pro social despite the lack of guidance, but the bottom line is parenting. The state should be providing that kind of education from an early age, and intervening if it isn't being provided or isn't going to be provided.

And has been pointed out, this isn't a class thing. I hate using the word "middle class" like above. Its about respect and raising your kids to respect other people. That has nothing to do with social class, you'll get people who don't do that at the upper echelons of our society and plenty of people who do it in "working class" communities. And the people who actually suffer the most from this behavior are the people in those communities who have to put up with it every day.

I wish somebody would actually raise this as a political issue as the problem is just going to get worse.

Totally off the mark.... I see plenty of your supposedly "well respected" middle class children causing all sorts of trouble.


The difference is they rarely get brought before the courts. Daddy, Mammy, Uncle, etc may be a local official, Gardaí or person of influence and so strings are pulled to keep nice "middle class Johnny" out of the courts..... (and it's not to save Johnny, it's to save the family name/reputation !)


It is only when nice respectful "middle class" Johnny develops a long lasting heroin habit and keeps repeating his or her crimes and the local community has had enough that things may come to a head.


I've seen it everywhere.....


Scumbag Northsiders in Dublin kick youngsters to death.


Respectable Tristan at Blackrock College or Rupert at Clongowes wouldn't kick a youngster to death. They would merely "make a dreadful mistake at a young age which will haunt them for the rest of their lives".


The respectable "middle class" kids in area's close to us used to head to the council estates at night where they were among the worst offenders and troublemakers in that area, however they went home in the early hours to bed and got up again the next morning in time to greet "middle class" daddy in time for breakfast.


And if by chance they were picked up by the Gardaí in a stolen car or with drugs it was all glossed over after a quick phone call to the station from a person of influence.


I really do love this "middle class" utopia you speak of..... It sounds so good I'd actually consider moving there.

You're right on one thing though, intervention through early education and inclusion...... but if you think that this comes without costs and resources you're way off the mark again.