chicken or the egg... survey before bidding

mcbert

Hi, looked at a 2nd hand houses recently. To my untrained eye it needs upgrading like insulation, windows, heating, painting, carpets, new kitchen, might like to move some non load bearing walls upstairs and extending a bit. But the cost of work involved influences what we might bid and that requires a detailed engineer survey with cost estimates. But engineer surveys usually come after a price has been agreed not before we place our first bid. No other bids in at the moment and their asking price is over optimistic. 1) I don't want to waste time and money on a engineer if they're never going to consider a realistic offer. 2) I wonder does paying for an engineer in advance help to drive up the price if they judge my interest to be high. 3) we need it to know what we can realistically get for our money left if/after our bid accepted, want to avoid agreeing a price that leaves us short.


Any suggestions how to do it?

jimmycrackcorm

Bid expecting to have pay money to refurbish shiny because it appears it's needed.
Get a survey then if you are accepted so you know busy how much. If it's worse than redirected then pull out

riclad

buying an old house can be risky,
Or a house that needs major repairs.
Moving walls or building extension should not be part of your bid ,thats your choice.
Make a bid , see if its accepted, then pay for a survey.
A structural survey lists all the issues, things that need fixing and the cost of the work .
If you look at most old house,s they will need redecoration, and a new kitchen .And new carpets .
The reason people buy old house,s is the location is good, they may be bigger than a new house,high ceilings, maybe a large garden.
Extra privacy , high walls around the garden.
In some area,s an old house is cheaper than a new house or apartment.
it would be wasting money paying for a survey unless your bid is accepted .
Maybe theres no bids because it can be hard to get mortgage approval
from a bank if the house is old and needs major repairs .
like 20k plus worth of work .
I,M not a builder but moving one load bearing wall will cost 5k plus ,to remove it and put in a new wall .

godtabh

Bid based on what you have seen. Get a survey done and if anything turns up i.e concrete, asbestos, etc adjust your offer. Outdated insulation or an old boiler should be factored into your offer

Sleeper12

I'd never send in an engineer before going sale agreed. You could pay for the engineer & not even win the bidding war. You could end up paying the engineer to inspect 4 or 5 properties before someone eventually accepts your bid. That approach can get extremely expensive

Peregrinus

You can make an offer which is explicitly subject to survey. If they indicate that your offer will be acceptable, then pay for a survey. Depending on what the survey shows, adjust your offer. Or, if you're really risk-averse, insist on signing a contract, subject to survey. Whether the vendors will agree to this will depend on how strong demand is for the house.

The more you adjust your offer, of course, the more likely they are to refuse the adjusted offer, so be realistic in your conditional first offer. If you think the property is likely to need some work, make an allowance for that in calculating what you can afford to offer. If the survey shows the property needs more money spent on it than you had allowed for, weill, at least your adjustment will not be so great as it would be if you had made no allowance at all for extra work.

Askthe EA

The obvious answer is to wait until your offer has been accepted.

But, another way to look at it is this. If the house is old and likely to need work, and the vendors are nervous about the results of engineers reports, then your offer that is NOT subject to an engineers report (you'll already have it done) is likely to be far more attractive to them.

Interested Observer

There is no need to get the survey done first and there is no need to say your offer is pending a survey. Once you're sale agreed you can withdraw from the sale at any point without losing anything, you've no risk until you sign a contract.

So bid on the house, if your bid is accepted then get a survey done, if the survey shows serious defects then simply withdraw from the process and move on.

JustMe,K

You can make an offer subject to survey, you can get a builder to speculatively look at the house for you also and give you a ballpark number based on what they can easily see before bidding.

Sleeper12

JustMe,K wrote:

You can make an offer subject to survey, you can get a builder to speculatively look at the house for you also and give you a ballpark number based on what they can easily see before bidding.

Offers are subject to survey & final mortgage approval anyway.

I don't see a benefit in survey before sales agreed

JustMe,K

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Offers are subject to survey & final mortgage approval anyway.

I don't see a benefit in survey before sales agreed

Me neither, hence the suggestion of a builder for a ballpark figure first.

Sleeper12

JustMe,K wrote:

Me neither, hence the suggestion of a builder for a ballpark figure first.

Builder will want payment for that too. If I were the builder I'd charge 300 to go give a rough price and I'd be happy to take the 300 the builder fee if I get to do the work. You won't get much of a builder following you around looking at houses for free. A handyman maybe but what would he know about pricing

JustMe,K

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Builder will want payment for that too. If I were the builder I'd charge 300 to go give a rough price and I'd be happy to take the 300 the builder fee if I get to do the work. You won't get much of a builder following you around looking at houses for free. A handyman maybe but what would he know about pricing

I had 3 builders do this a few months back so....

Sleeper12

JustMe,K wrote:

I had 3 builders do this a few months back so....

The good ones don't. No one gives their time for free. If a builder has time to view three properties that you might never own free of charge, then you need to ask yourself, at a time when all of us in the trades are flat out and turning away work, how is this "builder" so desperate for work? Why isn't he flat out working like the rest of us.

If someone owns the property then we provide free quotes. If you don't own the property yet we charge a professional fee.

riclad

IF your bid is accepted , get a survey,
the survey tells you how much it will cost to do all the necessary repairs.
Theres professional surveyors that do this,
the average builder would not be qualified to do this,
if you are going to do it do it right .i don,t know any builders who do surveys for free ,especially when you do not own the house.

https://www.surveyor.ie/

JustMe,K

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The good ones don't. No one gives their time for free. If a builder has time to view three properties that you might never own free of charge, then you need to ask yourself, at a time when all of us in the trades are flat out and turning away work, how is this "builder" so desperate for work? Why isn't he flat out working like the rest of us.

If someone owns the property then we provide free quotes. If you don't own the property yet we charge a professional fee.

You don't know the builders I used so cannot make assumptions as to the quality of their work. None of them were desperate for work, however they were all local to the property and had no issue coming to have a quick look round to provide an idea of the work involved. There was no surveryor involved in that discussion, nor a qs, it was simply verbal estimations based on what could easily be seen rather than formal quotes. Of course that was not taken as gospel and there was a pre completion survey, but the builders opinions were taken on board when deciding how to proceed and the level of offer to make on the property.

What you say you/your firm/people you know do I will take your word for as I am simply going on my experience.

Sleeper12

JustMe,K wrote:

You don't know the builders I used so cannot make assumptions as to the quality of their work. None of them were desperate for work, however they were all local to the property and had no issue coming to have a quick look round to provide an idea of the work involved. There was no surveryor involved in that discussion, nor a qs, it was simply verbal estimations based on what could easily be seen rather than formal quotes. Of course that was not taken as gospel and there was a pre completion survey, but the builders opinions were taken on board when deciding how to proceed and the level of offer to make on the property.

I'm not getting into oh yes he did & oh no he didn't. I can say this with 100 percent certainty, your "builder" is either a friend or a handyman. I'm betting if you actually engaged said "builder" that he didn't provide completion certs or RECI certs.

There is no one in this country that works for free, let alone on three separate occasions.