The glorious 12th

downcow

munsterlegend wrote: »

Dublin is the national stadium and rugby needs the money to keep afloat. That arrangement was made in the amateur days.

I have told you I understand and that is a broken promise I can forgive without even requesting a good Will gesture in return.mind you your argument is weak as the under 21s could at least play their games in Ulster

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Complex question. It would be easier for me to duck it but that’s not my style.
I have lots of middle class grammar school rugby playing friends who support them. Indeed many are orangemen etc. They seem to be able to detach the trappings from the guys on the pitch and clearly the reason is that their Ulster hero’s are playing.
I put games on tv torn. Often genuinely wanting to support Rory and his team mates but by the time I have seen Rory etc endure two renditions of the ss I am turned off and ambivalent to who wins.
Call me what you like but we are all a product of our experience and a very nasty history.
If the anthem was dropped that would be transformational for me and I would forgive the hierarchy for all the broken promises about games alternatively north and south etc.
I guess that is why I am so passionate about getting our own house in order by dropping gstq from ni matches.
I am also not a huge rugby fan so maybe I don’t get the nuinces

Surely using that logic and the fact there is no compromise on GSTQ in soccer, you would have 'conscientiously' dropped support for the soccer team.

As is blatantly obvious from your totality of posts, we know what you are comfortable with -an acceptable level of bigotry and provocation and a distaste for any compromise when it comes to the south.

munsterlegend

downcow wrote: »

I have told you I understand and that is a broken promise I can forgive without even requesting a good Will gesture in return.mind you your argument is weak as the under 21s could at least play their games in Ulster

As for u20s yeah they could go to Belfast. But under no circumstances could gstq be played just like against Italy a few years ago in the World Cup warm up.

downcow

munsterlegend wrote: »

As for u20s yeah they could go to Belfast. But under no circumstances could gstq be played just like against Italy a few years ago in the World Cup warm up.

I wouldn’t want it to. But just you reflect on how you would feel if it was played and then you will have got it as to how most unionists feel when ss is played at games. And indeed how some of your players including you captain feels.
I am interested in your honest reflections on this

downcow

munsterlegend wrote: »

As for u20s yeah they could go to Belfast.

Thanks. My point exactly. They could but they don’t

munsterlegend

downcow wrote: »

I wouldn’t want it to. But just you reflect on how you would feel if it was played and then you will have got it as to how most unionists feel when ss is played at games. And indeed how some of your players including you captain feels.
I am interested in your honest reflections on this

Our anthem Amhran na Bhfiann is nothing as divisive as gstq. As explained countless times it’s player in the republic only and not outside. Rory best is a proud Irish player as were many more with a Unionist identity. The vast majority of northern athletes will represent the tricolour next year in Japan.

When you get your house is order we can discuss on an overall basis the inevitable unification of this island and what would be acceptable emblems/anthems.

downcow

munsterlegend wrote: »

Our anthem Amhran na Bhfiann is nothing as divisive as gstq. As explained countless times it’s player in the republic only and not outside. Rory best is a proud Irish player as were many more with a Unionist identity. The vast majority of northern athletes will represent the tricolour next year in Japan.

When you get your house is order we can discuss on an overall basis the inevitable unification of this island and what would be acceptable emblems/anthems.

You are in FrancieWorld!
lol

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

And indeed how some of your players including you captain feels.

How 'the captain feels' is the best example of a working compromise you will find.

It isn't important enough for him not to want to play for Ireland. Maybe NI soccer should study that.

munsterlegend

munsterlegend wrote: »

Our anthem Amhran na Bhfiann is nothing as divisive as gstq. As explained countless times it’s player in the republic only and not outside. Rory best is a proud Irish player as were many more with a Unionist identity. The vast majority of northern athletes will represent the tricolour next year in Japan.

When you get your house is order we can discuss on an overall basis the inevitable unification of this island and what would be acceptable emblems/anthems.

Also gstq was an anthem imposed by a Protestant majority on a minority. At the commonwealth games they fudge the issue as they know how divisive it is.

munsterlegend

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How 'the captain feels' is the best example of a working compromise you will find.

It isn't important enough for him not to want to play for Ireland. Maybe NI soccer should study that.

It would be a great symbolic victory for the island as a whole if Ireland could somehow win the World Cup. Of course dup and downcow would lose their lives!

FrancieBrady

munsterlegend wrote: »

Also gstq was an anthem imposed by a Protestant majority on a minority. At the commonwealth games they fudge the issue as they know how divisive it is.

GTSQ is the sporting anthem of England. It's use anywhere else is incongruous and simply wrong.
NI has no anthem of it's own for obvious reasons and NI soccer's failure to come up with a compromise one is evidence of the sectarian leadership in NI soccer. Still sulking after all these years.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

GTSQ is the sporting anthem of England. It's use anywhere else is incongruous and simply wrong.
NI has no anthem of it's own for obvious reasons and NI soccer's failure to come up with a compromise one is evidence of the sectarian leadership in NI soccer. Still sulking after all these years.

Not correct. It is not the sporting anthem of england. England use it sometimes but that doesn't mean they own it. I actually believe it should only be used in UK context ie England should not use it

downcow

gwalk wrote: »

It's called Amhrán na bhFiann not "SS" you maggot

Again with your ****e like the Marton McGuinness carry on

This is an interesting article. Seems there might be more magots than me in Ireland lol.

I do find this really surprising. I don't think you would find one unionist who does not know the first verse of gstq.
Maybe you should forget about the irish signage and teach you people their anthem lol
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/do-you-know-the-words-to-amhr%C3%A1n-na-bhfiann-1.2754518

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Not correct. It is not the sporting anthem of england. England use it sometimes but that doesn't mean they own it. I actually believe it should only be used in UK context ie England should not use it

The fact is...they do. And Scotland use theirs and Wales theirs and Ireland uses theirs with a compromise version that respects all.

NI soccer insists on using the one England uses, make of that what you will.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The fact is...they do. And Scotland use theirs and Wales theirs and Ireland uses theirs with a compromise version that respects all.

NI soccer insists on using the one England uses, make of that what you will.

.....and england insists on using the one NI uses. I would like them both to stop

downcow

munsterlegend wrote: »

Our anthem Amhran na Bhfiann is nothing as divisive as gstq. As explained countless times it’s player in the republic only and not outside. Rory best is a proud Irish player as were many more with a Unionist identity. .

https://giphy.com/gifs/sixnationsrugby-rugby-ireland-six-nations-3s3pt3qcTv5O5FL15Y/tile

lol It looks like a shared experience. I think Rory is going to throw up

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

.....and england insists on using the one NI uses. I would like them both to stop

No compromise is necessary in England though. As we have been discussing, compromise is necessary here...or what were your irate phonecalls about again?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

https://giphy.com/gifs/sixnationsrugby-rugby-ireland-six-nations-3s3pt3qcTv5O5FL15Y/tile

lol It looks like a shared experience. I think Rory is going to throw up

If ever there was a 'cling on' post that is it. Rory compromised downcow, to get to play for Ireland...get over it.

steddyeddy

downcow wrote: »

I will be honest as I always am. I have zero recollection of greysteel chants but I know there was reference to the ira defeat at loughgal and 8-0 banners. Hardly a surprise remember this was a days after the Shankhill bomb and the news had just came out that the roi team listened to ira songs in their team coach

But who cares if they did? You yourself stated that you have no problem with murders like the Shankill butchers being part of an organisation.

munsterlegend

downcow wrote: »

https://giphy.com/gifs/sixnationsrugby-rugby-ireland-six-nations-3s3pt3qcTv5O5FL15Y/tile

lol It looks like a shared experience. I think Rory is going to throw up

He’s a captain focusing on the match. The important thing he is playing for his country Ireland. Good man Rory.

FrancieBrady

I am not seeing Rory express any reservations about either the anthems or playing for Ireland.

Rory Best wrote:

“It goes back to my Ireland schools’ days. You know what it’s like playing Ireland schools, you think it’s going to be the greatest honour you are ever going to achieve.

“You’re playing for Ireland. Being from rugby families like we were, you’re going, ‘This is incredible!’ You get so emotionally charged for it. And Ireland’s Call comes on – you have heard that so many times in the old Lansdowne Road or watching on TV and you’re belting it out.


“They are memories I have from going to the old Lansdowne Road to watch, this build-up, and then the massive cheer, and then Ireland’s Call coming on.

“I remember we played France or England. Kicked off. I’m flying up going, ‘The first guy is getting it!’ They catch it, kick it out and I’m then turning around, running back to get a ball, still thinking, ‘Somebody’s going to get it’.

I fired this throw-in and it went… like I sort of tell the story that it went three times the height of the person I was throwing it to, it wasn’t that bad! It flew over the top.

“From then on, I went, I can’t go into a game… because it’s so emotive to me, Ireland’s Call. Actually, even the tail end of the Irish national anthem, you know the way you get that build-up for that crescendo at the end.

“The problem is then, I worry that it’s going to happen in a big game. That we’re going to kick off against the All Blacks, Beauden Barrett is going to catch it, kick it out and then I’m fully charged, trying to focus in. And it is such a core skill.

“It’s a bit like goalkicking. You have to get your heart rate down, you have to focus, get your breathing back, and focus for that split second to throw the perfect throw. That is just why I did it. I don’t know whether it would affect me as much now, but I’m not prepared to take the chance.”

munsterlegend

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/i-don-t-see-why-anyone-would-find-it-strange-i-support-ireland-1.3431801%3fmode=amp

No one having any problem at all supporting Ireland.

downcow

steddyeddy wrote: »

But who cares if they did? You yourself stated that you have no problem with murders like the Shankill butchers being part of an organisation.

At least i answer questions eddy

Do you think murderers should be banned from GAA SF etc. Give a straight answer. its a simple question

downcow

munsterlegend wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/i-don-t-see-why-anyone-would-find-it-strange-i-support-ireland-1.3431801%3fmode=amp

No one having any problem at all supporting Ireland.

LOL A reporter goes into a pub and asks those supporting Ireland, if the are happy supporting Ireland, and you are surprised the answer is yes LOL

Thats like asking the bandsmen with the para symbol on their slieve if they are happy for people to wear para symbols on their slieve.

Look I am tired of this.
If you think the SS causes no problem for unionist players and fans then thats fine. Bury your head in the sand. I in the meantime will get on with trying to get a sporting anthem to replace GSTQ at NI matches
We'll not fall out over it.

and if you think
ROI team playing songs in their team bus about killing policemen is fine, then thats fine to.

If you think that unionist organisations should ban members who commit crimes but nationalist organisations should not, thats also fine

and i could go on and on.

Ihave learnt from this that actually nationalists and unioists have clearly moved further and are more in touch with reality up north than their counterparts in the south - I guess the counterparts in the USA are even more in fantasyland

munsterlegend

downcow wrote: »

LOL A reporter goes into a pub and asks those supporting Ireland, if the are happy supporting Ireland, and you are surprised the answer is yes LOL

Thats like asking the bandsmen with the para symbol on their slieve if they are happy for people to wear para symbols on their slieve.

Look I am tired of this.
If you think the SS causes no problem for unionist players and fans then thats fine. Bury your head in the sand. I in the meantime will get on with trying to get a sporting anthem to replace GSTQ at NI matches
We'll not fall out over it.

and if you think
ROI team playing songs in their team bus about killing policemen is fine, then thats fine to.

If you think that unionist organisations should ban members who commit crimes but nationalist organisations should not, thats also fine

and i could go on and on.

Ihave learnt from this that actually nationalists and unioists have clearly moved further and are more in touch with reality up north than their counterparts in the south - I guess the counterparts in the USA are even more in fantasyland

So you agree gstq was subjected on the people by a sectarian majority? I don’t notice any walls between peoples living down here.

The north is just one of those British experiments that went completely wrong. The place needs to be reset. Unionist politicians get elected based on how vitriolic you can be about the nationalists. Don’t get me wrong Sinn Fein are as bad in certain ways but at least the language used is for a shared future rather than how much we hate our neighbour.

Junkyard Tom

What DC doesn't seem to understand is that what he wants for Rugby is exceptionalism - a Unionist anthem, to placate less than half the population of 6 counties of the northeast of Ireland, where a Unionist majority only exists in only two.

You keep being you though - because neutral readers of the thread will see just how difficult it is to deal with unionist supremacists.

downcow

munsterlegend wrote: »

So you agree gstq was subjected on the people by a sectarian majority? I don’t notice any walls between peoples living down here.

The north is just one of those British experiments that went completely wrong. The place needs to be reset. Unionist politicians get elected based on how vitriolic you can be about the nationalists. Don’t get me wrong Sinn Fein are as bad in certain ways but at least the language used is for a shared future rather than how much we hate our neighbour.

There are no walls down there for the same reasons there are no walls in the USA, Australia, New Zealand, much of Europe etc. The minority community left.

The minority community was not exterminated in NI and has lead to a contested society

janfebmar

downcow wrote: »

At least i answer questions eddy

Do you think murderers should be banned from GAA SF etc. Give a straight answer. its a simple question

You will not get a straight answer.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

What DC doesn't seem to understand is that what he wants for Rugby is exceptionalism - a Unionist anthem, to placate less than half the population of 6 counties of the northeast of Ireland, where a Unionist majority only exists in only two.

You keep being you though - because neutral readers of the thread will see just how difficult it is to deal with unionist supremacists.

Who asked for a unionist anthem. Hopefully nuetral readers will see how you are spinning this and apply that to the nonsense you are talking about NI team etc etc.

I think you know who the supremacists are in Irish rugby - although not a word i would use to describe them - a little over the top

gwalk

Was on a train from Cullybackey to Belfast yesterday evening,

large group of teenagers who got on at Ballymena probably off to some event or something, few alcopops between them but sure weren't we all young once

All fine and well (apart from one of them knocking an older woman's glasses off her head, although she was quick enough to put him in his place, maith an cailìn) until they start shouting and singing their anti catholic songs and sectarian bile, got the full kill all taigs, we hate Catholics etc.

What hope does the future hold when such hatred and bigotry is bred into them by the 12th, an the "Culture"