The glorious 12th

munsterlegend

FrancieBrady wrote: »

All that has to be proved against Soldier F is the 'intention to kill'.

downcow is watching too much telly with the 'premeditated' stuff.

Yeah too many American dramas with murder in different degrees.

FrancieBrady

munsterlegend wrote: »

Yeah too many American dramas with murder in different degrees.

He's of course trying to prep the 'fit up' argument if he gets convicted, no doubt.

steddyeddy

downcow wrote: »

Slightly different. They were carrying guns to murder if the opportunity arose.
The BA were carrying gun to keep the peace, protect the community or defend themselves.

You're tripping up on your own double speak D. You're redefining your own description of murder so your cognitive dissonance isn't to obvious.

citytillidie

So shooting people in the back, on the ground and when waving a white hanky is ok as it is keeping to the fecking peace. Fecking hell heard it all now

munsterlegend

firemansam4 wrote: »

So if I am carrying a kitchen knife while doing some cooking but I lose my temper and stab someone next to me, that's not murder then, because The original intention was to use my knife for cooking with.

Right so.....

Also doesn’t fit premeditated murder so you’re laughing per legal eagle downcow!

munsterlegend

citytillidie wrote: »

So shooting people in the back, on the ground and when waving a white hanky is ok as it is keeping to the fecking peace. Fecking hell heard it all now

It’s called British ‘justice’!

downcow

firemansam4 wrote: »

So if I am carrying a kitchen knife while doing some cooking but I lose my temper and stab someone next to me, that's not murder then, because The original intention was to use my knife for cooking with.

Right so.....

It will def be looked on differently than if you headed out with a knife and lay in wait for someone, kept out on them and stabbed them.

FrancieBrady

citytillidie wrote: »

So shooting people in the back, on the ground and when waving a white hanky is ok as it is keeping to the fecking peace. Fecking hell heard it all now

Did you not know that two policemen had been shot two days before and somebody was pegging stones? What did those innocent people expect?

*In before the diluters and excusers get here.

steddyeddy

RobMc59 wrote: »

There's a difference between legitimate state representatives carrying weapons(BA or PSNI) and illegal paramilitaries.

Depends on the war, conflict, army and conduct of said army Rob. Sometimes those declared as illegal organisations are the morally superior. For example the regiment in Bloody Sunday were as bad if not worse as anything else around that time. Likewise the Black and Tans in Ireland operated as a paramilitary organisation.

downcow

munsterlegend wrote: »

I am sure SF members were high up in the IRA and murdered yes. I am not a SF supporter so have no problem condemning such acts. You selectively condemn which is hypocritical.

I absolutely condemn what the BA done that day in difficult circumstances.

It’s not me that is being selective , quite the contrary.

I want every one treated the same. Do you?
I soldier f is prosecuted then I want the letters of comfort taken from republicans and terrorists on both sides investigated. Do you?

My preference is that a line is drawn under it all and no more prosecutions. Is that your preference?

You know many many republicans including the fisherman (whoever he was) were protected time and again from production. Should they be reinvestigated?

Should there be an enquiry into la mon eg ?

So let’s see who is consistent now. Simple answers please.

Also re soldier f. I am only quoting security correspondents etc who say there is not a chance in hell of soldier f being convicted of murder.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Also re soldier f. I am only quoting security correspondents etc who say there is not a chance in hell of soldier f being convicted of murder.

link?

munsterlegend

downcow wrote: »

I absolutely condemn what the BA done that day in difficult circumstances.

It’s not me that is being selective , quite the contrary.

I want every one treated the same. Do you?
I soldier f is prosecuted then I want the letters of comfort taken from republicans and terrorists on both sides investigated. Do you?

My preference is that a line is drawn under it all and no more prosecutions. Is that your preference?

You know many many republicans including the fisherman (whoever he was) were protected time and again from production. Should they be reinvestigated?

Should there be an enquiry into la mon eg ?

So let’s see who is consistent now. Simple answers please.

Also re soldier f. I am only quoting security correspondents etc who say there is not a chance in hell of soldier f being convicted of murder.

If there is evidence anyone should be prosecuted and many Republicans/loyalists went to jail. The army and police as we know were protected by whitewash investigations. Everyone deserves to know what happened their loved ones.

Everyone knows that Bloody Sunday was an important moment in the troubles. The state covered up obvious murder. From then on a can of worms opened where people realized the army brought into protect were also the enemy to the nationalist community.

munsterlegend

FrancieBrady wrote: »

link?

Would love to see that link too.

RobMc59

steddyeddy wrote: »

RobMc59 wrote: »

There's a difference between legitimate state representatives carrying weapons(BA or PSNI) and illegal paramilitaries.

Depends on the war, conflict, army and conduct of said army Rob. Sometimes those declared as illegal organisations are the morally superior. For example the regiment in Bloody Sunday were as bad if not worse as anything else around that time. Likewise the Black and Tans in Ireland operated as a paramilitary organisation.

So would you say for example people carrying guns and using them in Derry recently are morally superior to the PSNI?

timthumbni

Saw something on bbc recently. PAtsy Gillespie’s wife talking about how the brave men of the IRA strapped him to a bomb and then forced him to drive to an army base, then blew him up along with a few British soldiers.

Isis have nothing on the IRA.

munsterlegend

timthumbni wrote: »

Saw something on bbc recently. PAtsy Gillespie’s wife talking about how the brave men of the IRA strapped him to a bomb and then forced him to drive to an army base, then blew him up along with a few British soldiers.

Isis have nothing on the IRA.

You always mention this which was brutal and horrific. Why never speak about the Shankhill butchers though which was much closer to isis? Long painful deaths through torture.

timthumbni

RobMc59 wrote: »

So would you say for example people carrying guns and using them in Derry recently are morally superior to the PSNI?

Murdering wee girls like Lyra? Republicans have been doing this and worse for years. In londonderry they wallow in self pity. Along with a bit of murder..

FrancieBrady

timthumbni wrote: »

Saw something on bbc recently. PAtsy Gillespie’s wife talking about how the brave men of the IRA strapped him to a bomb and then forced him to drive to an army base, then blew him up along with a few British soldiers.

Isis have nothing on the IRA.

and you cannot think of any other atrocities in the 30-40 years of a conflict but that one Tim?
Amazing...shure maybe it was just the RA that was doing all the killing?

timthumbni

FrancieBrady wrote: »

and you cannot think of any other atrocities in the 30-40 years of a conflict but that one Tim?
Amazing...shure maybe it was just the RA that was doing all the killing?

The cowardly ira certainly were the premier league champions of murder. Well done..

FrancieBrady

timthumbni wrote: »

The cowardly ira certainly were the premier league champions of murder. Well done..

Well only the sickest of the sick seen it as some sort of killing competition. Knock yourself out in the Champion Sick Stakes there Tim

munsterlegend

timthumbni wrote: »

The cowardly ira certainly were the premier league champions of murder. Well done..

You should read about your shankill mates. Champions league stuff in your terminology. As sick as sick can be.

steddyeddy

downcow wrote: »

I absolutely condemn what the BA done that day in difficult circumstances.

It’s not me that is being selective , quite the contrary.

I want every one treated the same. Do you?
I soldier f is prosecuted then I want the letters of comfort taken from republicans and terrorists on both sides investigated. Do you?

My preference is that a line is drawn under it all and no more prosecutions. Is that your preference?

You know many many republicans including the fisherman (whoever he was) were protected time and again from production. Should they be reinvestigated?

Should there be an enquiry into la mon eg ?

So let’s see who is consistent now. Simple answers please.

Also re soldier f. I am only quoting security correspondents etc who say there is not a chance in hell of soldier f being convicted of murder.

But you don't really want equivalence. You're forgetting the IRA were tried, many of them convicted and sentenced. The belligerents involved in Bloody Sunday weren't put on trial, convicted or sentenced.

It was a significant event as the subsequent injustice fuelled IRA recruitment and as a result a lot more people died at the IRA's hands.

Odhinn

timthumbni wrote: »

Saw something on bbc recently. PAtsy Gillespie’s wife talking about how the brave men of the IRA strapped him to a bomb and then forced him to drive to an army base, then blew him up along with a few British soldiers.

Isis have nothing on the IRA.

I see the rhetoric machine is being abused again.

steddyeddy

timthumbni wrote: »

Saw something on bbc recently. PAtsy Gillespie’s wife talking about how the brave men of the IRA strapped him to a bomb and then forced him to drive to an army base, then blew him up along with a few British soldiers.

Yes that was despicable indeed. I'm in complete agreement that the event you're talking about was nothing short of disgusting. All because he was a catholic working as an army cook.

timthumbni

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well only the sickest of the sick seen it as some sort of killing competition. Knock yourself out in the Champion Sick Stakes there Tim

Oh the Ira win that one Francie. Hands up. No contest.

I like the way the Ira also threw in a bit of rape too. especially in a so called safe house. Lovely people.

timthumbni

steddyeddy wrote: »

. All because he was a catholic working as an army cook.

Are you trying to suggest his religion was justifiably to blow him up?

FrancieBrady

timthumbni wrote: »

Oh the Ira win that one Francie. Hands up. No contest.

I like the way the Ira also threw in a bit of rape too. especially in a so called safe house. Lovely people.

I always believe the winner of that sick competition of yours would be decided by whoever was being killed not somebody who has ruled their own crowd out of the competition.

So why not go try and rise a row someplace else?

timthumbni

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I always believe the winner of that sick competition of yours would be decided by whoever was being killed not somebody who has ruled their own crowd out of the competition. ?

No idea what you are on about there francie. Sure you don’t support the Ira anyway so you wouldn’t dare try to defend them anyway?

steddyeddy

timthumbni wrote: »

Are you trying to suggest his religion was justifiably to blow him up?

Relax Tim. I'm implying the opposite. The man in question was regarded to a gentleman. It's a particularly despicable murder and his wife was left broken hearted for the rest of her life.

citytillidie

timthumbni wrote: »

Murdering wee girls like Lyra? Republicans have been doing this and worse for years. In londonderry they wallow in self pity. Along with a bit of murder..

Using Lyra again for point scoring even when her family have ask for name not to be used as a political football