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The glorious 12th

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    #3992
    tipptom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Criticising the British for only realising in 1939 that the Nazis were the bad guys is extremely hypocritical for someone defending the Irish position of never realising that the Nazis were the bad guys.

    Nazi Germany was the most evil regime of the 20th century, and we sat on our hands, one of the most shameful acts of Irish history. In fact, some of us - Sean Russell - actively collaborated with and encouraged the Nazis.

    The Nazis were only apeing what the evil British empire regime(Hitler was a great admirer) done throughout centuries all over the world which gave the Nazis the blueprint for concentration camps.


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    #3993
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Then why did you previously claim to vote nationalist and express disgust at voting unionist?

    I never expressed disgust at voting unionist. Here in the Republic there is not a broad spectrum of parties to choose from, sometimes it is a choice of voting for the least nationalist party or not voting at all.


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    #3994
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    janfebmar wrote: »
    I never expressed disgust at voting unionist. Here in the Republic there is not a broad spectrum of parties to choose from, sometimes it is a choice of voting for the least nationalist party or not voting at all.

    Yep including Sinn Fein judging by your previous incarnations.


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    #3995
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    What does this sentence mean J?

    The smithwicks tribunal report showed there was collusion between the Irish security services and Republican extremists. How much, we will never fully know.


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    #3996
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,911 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    tipptom wrote: »
    The Nazis were only apeing what the evil British empire regime(Hitler was a great admirer) done throughout centuries all over the world which gave the Nazis the blueprint for concentration camps.

    The Nazis were apeing the British Empire, ok. There is always one.


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    #3997
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    janfebmar wrote: »
    The smithwicks tribunal report showed there was collusion between the Irish security services and Republican extremists. How much, we will never fully know.

    Ah well that's interesting J!


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    #3998
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    blanch152 wrote: »
    The Nazis were apeing the British Empire, ok. There is always one.

    Actually that's factually correct. The first concentration camps were set up by the British during the Boer war.


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    #3999
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    The majority of what your post says about irelands war of independence and civil war isn't on the radar in the UK-there are vague notions that Ireland stabbed the UK in the back during the Great war by trying to form an alliance with the Germans but that's as far as it goes.Most people wouldn't have heard of Pearse or any of the others from 1916 .WW1 was and is what is remembered in the UK.
    I'm not saying this to offend,it's the truth.
    In regards to the 30s and 40s the main interest was rising tensions with the nazis and WW2-Britains own struggle against the axis powers was the only interest.

    This is completely my experience too. I've lived there and have English relatives.
    Part of the farce is we know this it's just some unionists are in denial. When the British parliament send over ministers who know little about the north and the Tories vote in a leader who's not much brighter on it, that should really show how dear Irish affairs are to the hearts of the Westminster government.
    janfebmar wrote: »
    I have met people in America who did not know where Ireland was.

    Me too. When you look at their President I'm not surprised.


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    #4000
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    janfebmar wrote: »
    I guess if you ask many people in Ireland about far away countries that have a population of say 4 million, they may not know too much about them either. Talking about "The education system leaves a lot to be desired", did you know "1 in 6 adults has literacy difficulties in Ireland. The OECD Adult Skills Survey shows that 17.9% or about 1 in 6, Irish adults are at or below level 1 on a five level literacy scale. ... 25% or 1 in 4 Irish adults score at or below level 1 for numeracy compared to just over 20% on average across participating countries."

    And in the states they're at ongoing wars with places most can't find on a map.
    Are you just in here to **** on Ireland and the Irish are are you going somewhere with this?


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    #4001
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Actually that's factually correct. The first concentration camps were set up by the British during the Boer war.

    Define difference between prison and concentration camp.

    Do you think prisons are like H Block / Long Kesh / call it what you want, where prisoners are allowed live if they want to live, and concentrations camps are like the places here in this state where DeValera executed people during WW2?


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    #4002
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Belfast in the UK? Some posters on this very thread would likely get very annoyed if you said Belfast was not in Ireland!

    For it would defy reality.


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    #4003
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Actually that's factually correct. The first concentration camps were set up by the British during the Boer war.

    That`s correct Ed,by Kerry`s Lord Kitchener.


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    #4004
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    And in the states they're at ongoing wars with places most can't find on a map.
    Are you just in here to **** on Ireland and the Irish are are you going somewhere with this?

    Someone else made a comment on educational standards (or lack of) just before that. Set up another thread on that if you want, rather than derail this thread.


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    #4005
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Define difference between prison and concentration camp.

    Do you think prisons are like H Block / Long Kesh / call it what you want, where prisoners are allowed live if they want to live, and concentrations camps are like the places here in this state where DeValera executed people during WW2?

    I don't see a denial but deflection. It's a historical fact Kitchener used concentration camps in the Boer war.


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    #4006
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    That`s correct Ed,by Kerry`s Lord Kitchener.

    Disowning him now, (dictator did his own thing in a vacuum?) but would Kerry have been in Britain or Ireland? ;)

    By the by, his father bought land in Kerry. I'm sure the natives were more than happy to have it sold for them.


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    #4007
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    I don't see a denial but deflection. It's a historical fact Kitchener used concentration camps in the Boer war.

    You still have not defined the difference between prison and concentration camp. Until you do, I suggest you look at the scale of the extermination camps the Nazis had, which were a different thing altogether.;)


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    #4008
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,848 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    janfebmar wrote: »
    You still have not defined the difference between prison and concentration camp. Until you do, I suggest you look at the scale of the extermination camps the Nazis had, which were a different thing altogether.;)

    :D:D:D:D Maybe they spelled it differently? Would that give you enough latitude to continue living in your denial?


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    #4009
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    janfebmar wrote: »
    You still have not defined the difference between prison and concentration camp. Until you do, I suggest you look at the scale of the extermination camps the Nazis had, which were a different thing altogether.;)

    You can ponder on what a concentration camp is and the fact remains Kitchener beat the Nazis to it historically.

    Here you go:

    concentration camp noun
    Definition of concentration camp
    : a place where large numbers of people (such as prisoners of war, political prisoners, refugees, or the members of an ethnic or religious minority) are detained or confined under armed guard —used especially in reference to camps created by the Nazis in World War II for the internment and persecution of Jews and other prisoners
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/concentration%20camp

    Talk about derailing. Just accept the history Jan. Let's move on, the subsequent British invasion and current occupation of a portion of the Irish Province of Ulster in Ireland.


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    #4010
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    You can ponder on what a concentration camp.

    Oh I know what a concentration camp is, and I have been in one (or a place which used to be run as one), and I have been in a place which used to be an extermination camp, and I have been in places which used to function as prisons, and I know the difference.
    If you think the British had concentration camps in South Africa, like the Nazis had in Europe, why did South Africa (an independent country) fight alongside the UK in WW2?


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    #4011
    Fionn1952
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Actually that's factually correct. The first concentration camps were set up by the British during the Boer war.

    That`s correct Ed,by Kerry`s Lord Kitchener.

    Didn't another quite well known British chap, born on the island of Ireland say, "just because you are born in a stable does not make you a horse”?

    I'd imagine Lord Kitchener would've been similarly aghast at being considered a Kerryman.


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    #4012
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Oh I know what a concentration camp is, and I have been in one (or a place which used to be run as one), and I have been in a place which used to be an extermination camp, and I have been in places which used to function as prisons, and I know the difference.
    If you think the British had concentration camps in South Africa, like the Nazis had in Europe, why did South Africa (an independent country) fight alongside the UK in WW2?

    More spin. Save yourself and the rest of us more time would'ya?
    You are moving the goal posts once again. The British had concentration camps before the Nazis. Historical fact.
    You may as well dispute what a prison is based on how the inmates are treated. Still a prison.


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    #4013
    Fionn1952
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    You can ponder on what a concentration camp.

    Oh I know what a concentration camp is, and I have been in one (or a place which used to be run as one), and I have been in a place which used to be an extermination camp, and I have been in places which used to function as prisons, and I know the difference.
    If you think the British had concentration camps in South Africa, like the Nazis had in Europe, why did South Africa (an independent country) fight alongside the UK in WW2?

    While I don't think the British concentration camps during the Boer war were as bad as the Nazi extermination camps of WWII, it is genuinely bizarre to read someone argue against the historical fact of their existence, Jan.

    This is the level of delusion and refusal to accept any wrong ever from the British that makes it impossible to have any sort of reasonable discussion with you.


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    #4014
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    You may as well dispute what a prison is based on how the inmates are treated. Still a prison.

    And you are blaming the British for inventing prisons?


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    #4015
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Fionn1952 wrote: »
    While I don't think the British concentration camps during the Boer war were as bad as the Nazi extermination camps of WWII, it is genuinely bizarre to read someone argue against the historical fact of their existence, Jan.

    This is the level of delusion and refusal to accept any wrong ever from the British that makes it impossible to have any sort of reasonable discussion with you.

    You don't think 6 million may have died in British concentration camps? Come on now, the British made many mistakes like everyone else, surely it was close to 6 million if not 6 million? I wonder how the South Africans were so agreeable to fight with the British in North Africa and elsewhere a relatively short time afterwards though?


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    #4016
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    That`s correct Ed,by Kerry`s Lord Kitchener.

    Yes indeed. Son of a British army officer from the Anglo-Irish ruling class. There's no surprise he was of questionable character.


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    #4017
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    janfebmar wrote: »
    You don't think 6 million may have died in British concentration camps? Come on now, the British made many mistakes like everyone else, surely it was close to 6 million if not 6 million? I wonder how the South Africans were so agreeable to fight with the British in North Africa and elsewhere a relatively short time afterwards though?

    Jan what are you trying to say here?


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    #4018
    Fionn1952
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Fionn1952 wrote: »
    While I don't think the British concentration camps during the Boer war were as bad as the Nazi extermination camps of WWII, it is genuinely bizarre to read someone argue against the historical fact of their existence, Jan.

    This is the level of delusion and refusal to accept any wrong ever from the British that makes it impossible to have any sort of reasonable discussion with you.

    You don't think 6 million may have died in British concentration camps? Come on now, the British made many mistakes like everyone else, surely it was close to 6 million if not 6 million? I wonder how the South Africans were so agreeable to fight with the British in North Africa and elsewhere a relatively short time afterwards though?

    Do you have trouble with reading comprehension, Jan? How does this in any way relate to what my post actually says?

    It's a really simple question - do you accept the historic fact that the British were the first to use concentration camps?

    We're in full agreement that the Nazi camps were much worse, in a huge number of ways. I am particularly careful in my use of the term extermination camp in my previous statement to differentiate between the two. Dachau was a concentration camp, and had more in common with the British concentration camps of the Boer war than Auschwitz, which was an extermination camp.


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    #4019
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    RobMc59 wrote: »
    That`s correct Ed,by Kerry`s Lord Kitchener.

    Yes indeed. Son of a British army officer from the Anglo-Irish ruling class. There's no surprise he was of questionable character.
    He also came up with the iconic 'your country needs you'recruiting poster and slogan.
    https://images.app.goo.gl/zob9gJ1vwH8D4KKL6


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    #4020
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,911 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    More spin. Save yourself and the rest of us more time would'ya?
    You are moving the goal posts once again. The British had concentration camps before the Nazis. Historical fact.
    You may as well dispute what a prison is based on how the inmates are treated. Still a prison.

    Equating the Nazi extermination camps to previous iterations of concentration camps is just another disingenuous Republican tactic.


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    #4021
    Fionn1952
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    steddyeddy wrote: »
    RobMc59 wrote: »
    That`s correct Ed,by Kerry`s Lord Kitchener.

    Yes indeed. Son of a British army officer from the Anglo-Irish ruling class. There's no surprise he was of questionable character.
    He also came up with the iconic 'your country needs you'recruiting poster and slogan.
    https://images.app.goo.gl/zob9gJ1vwH8D4KKL6

    I see he was depicted in it, but did he actually come up with it?

    I'm aware it's totally off topic, but genuinely a nice bit of trivia that!


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