The glorious 12th

James Brown

RobMc59 wrote: »

Duke of Wellington,Kitchener,Churchill's right hand man-ALL Irish willing participants. Hundreds of thousands of Irish soldiers took the king ir queens shilling or do you wish to airbrush that out of Ireland's history?
I've said Britain did some shameful things but you should also admit Ireland wasn't dragged kicking and screaming.

When you invade somewhere and put your lackeys and their descendants in positions of power that's what you tend to get. Again, 'Ireland' wasn't asked Rob.
You've a very skewed idea of Irish history.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

When you invade somewhere and put your lackeys and their descendants in positions of power that's what you tend to get. Again, 'Ireland' wasn't asked Rob.
You've a very skewed idea of Irish history.

Technically, neither were Wales, England or Scotland asked of the other "home countries" of the British Empire.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Technically, neither were Wales, England or Scotland asked of the other "home countries" of the British Empire.

Couldn't care less Blanch. It was all carried out under faux democracy overseen by the murderous British empire.
In WW1 all those cousins squabbling sending thousands to their death. Very noble.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Couldn't care less Blanch. It was all carried out under faux democracy overseen by the murderous British empire.
In WW1 all those cousins squabbling sending thousands to their death. Very noble.

I know you couldn't care less, but there were four home countries of the British Empire - England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. They all share the blame for what the British Empire did.

We were never a colony, we were one of the home countries.

Yes, we rebelled and rejected Britain in the end, but until 1919, there was no popular support for independence.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

I know you couldn't care less, but there were four home countries of the British Empire - England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. They all share the blame for what the British Empire did.

We were never a colony, we were one of the home countries.

Yes, we rebelled and rejected Britain in the end, but until 1919, there was no popular support for independence.

Spectacular buy in to the narrative the colonists led you to believe.

They told you you weren't a colony and you believed it. They told you there was no popular support for independence and you swallowed that too.

janfebmar

blanch152 wrote: »

I know you couldn't care less, but there were four home countries of the British Empire - England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. They all share the blame for what the British Empire did.

We were never a colony, we were one of the home countries.

Yes, we rebelled and rejected Britain in the end, but until 1919, there was no popular support for independence.

Correct. The rebels were spat on and jeered as they came out of the GPO and were marched away in 1916. We were a home country.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Spectacular buy in to the narrative the colonists led you to believe.

They told you you weren't a colony and you believed it. They told you there was no popular support for independence and you swallowed that too.

Francie, you are airbrushing history goodo today.

Without the famine, I don't think that we would have ever had an independence movement. Before the famine, there was little consistent popular support for independence movements. With the narrative that it was all the fault of the British (and it is clear that they responded absymally and incompetently to it) rather than potato blight, gradual support for an independent Ireland increased in the second half of the nineteenth century but even in 1916, until the executions, the leaders of the Rising lacked popular support.

You rely too much on the history you were taught in the school of the glorious and heroic fight against the English. It wasn't like that. Large parts of the country were at worst ambiguous towards the British.

janfebmar

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Again, back then, before the full knowledge of the Nazis was known.
You could see how some people might look at the British on one side and the Germans on the other and based on the British reputation, support the Germans.

You must be joking. Based on the British reputation for decency and fair play, 100,000 Irish people volunteered and joined the services. Tens of thousands more worked in UK factories, hospitals etc supporting the war effort.
How many joined Nazi Germany? There was Republican Sean Russell, who got shafted by the Germans and died on a u-boat did he not . Who else supported the Germans... Lord Haw Haw, he ended up dead too. Who else?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Francie, you are airbrushing history goodo today.

Without the famine, I don't think that we would have ever had an independence movement. Before the famine, there was little consistent popular support for independence movements. With the narrative that it was all the fault of the British (and it is clear that they responded absymally and incompetently to it) rather than potato blight, gradual support for an independent Ireland increased in the second half of the nineteenth century but even in 1916, until the executions, the leaders of the Rising lacked popular support.

You rely too much on the history you were taught in the school of the glorious and heroic fight against the English. It wasn't like that. Large parts of the country were at worst ambiguous towards the British.

Show us the data you have to support that theory.

Fionn1952

blanch152 wrote: »

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Couldn't care less Blanch. It was all carried out under faux democracy overseen by the murderous British empire.
In WW1 all those cousins squabbling sending thousands to their death. Very noble.

I know you couldn't care less, but there were four home countries of the British Empire - England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. They all share the blame for what the British Empire did.

We were never a colony, we were one of the home countries.

Yes, we rebelled and rejected Britain in the end, but until 1919, there was no popular support for independence.

Until 1919, the, 'voice's of the people was the voice of the oppressor, Blanch. Thus it ever was and all that, such is the way with colonialism. I'd imagine the majority were more concerned with putting food on the table than who ruled over what, but your point that, 'Ireland was Britain, Britain was Ireland', as far as the average family pushed, 'to Hell or Connaught' certainly doesn't hold up to much scrutiny.

I'm aware this is all widly off topic, but at least it's interesting to me, and mostly seems less aggressive.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Show us the data you have to support that theory.

Look at the evidence over hundreds of years and work it out yourself Francie. The penny is bound to drop sometime that you have been brainwashed.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

I know you couldn't care less, but there were four home countries of the British Empire - England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. They all share the blame for what the British Empire did.

We were never a colony, we were one of the home countries.

Yes, we rebelled and rejected Britain in the end, but until 1919, there was no popular support for independence.

Absolutely nothing that happened under British rule in Ireland had anything to do with democracy so you can take you share of the blame and put it with Lord Lucan.

janfebmar wrote: »

Correct. The rebels were spat on and jeered as they came out of the GPO and were marched away in 1916. We were a home country.

Unlike our British counterparts, we studied Irish history.

janfebmar wrote: »

You must be joking. Based on the British reputation for decency and fair play, 100,000 Irish people volunteered and joined the services....

By who's standards? They massacred and butchered their way around the world, catch yourself on.
Not to mention using concentration camps.

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Until 1919, the, 'voice's of the people was the voice of the oppressor, Blanch. Thus it ever was and all that, such is the way with colonialism. I'd imagine the majority were more concerned with putting food on the table than who ruled over what, but your point that, 'Ireland was Britain, Britain was Ireland', as far as the average family pushed, 'to Hell or Connaught' certainly doesn't hold up to much scrutiny.

I'm aware this is all widly off topic, but at least it's interesting to me, and mostly seems less aggressive.

There were many benefiting from colluding with the colonisation...were it ever thus.

It is their narrative that blanch and janfebmar have bought into and it why they seem to be eternally surprised that there was overwhelming support of the people to get rid of the British. That didn't come about just because of the executions, it cam about because of centuries of oppression. Even the British knew it was game over.

janfebmar

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Absolutely nothing that happened under British rule in Ireland had anything to do with democracy so you can take you share of the blame and put it with Lord Lucan.



Unlike our British counterparts, we studied Irish history.



By who's standards? They massacred and butchered their way around the world, catch yourself on.

We were as democratic as most other countries in the world then. You cannot deny the rebels were spat on and jeered by the people of Dublin after they surrendered.
Any luck finding anyone else from Ireland who sided with the Nazis during ww2? 100,000 served with the British, with many more in factories, hospitals etc.

Odhinn

RobMc59 wrote: »

Duke of Wellington,Kitchener,Churchill's right hand man-ALL Irish willing participants. Hundreds of thousands of Irish soldiers took the king ir queens shilling or do you wish to airbrush that out of Ireland's history?
I've said Britain did some shameful things but you should also admit Ireland wasn't dragged kicking and screaming.

.....their being no locally elected Irish parliament that could agree consent then yes, the country was dragged into it. Willing volunteers to put food in their mouths is hardly suprising. The same happened in Africa, India etc.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

We were as democratic as most other countries in the world then. You cannot deny the rebels were spat on and jeered by the people of Dublin after they surrendered.

Who were the people doing the spitting? Those who were benefiting from the British occupation.

Unless you are saying all of Ireland was there.

Sofiztikated

janfebmar wrote: »

I can't link to anything substantial, so I want you to change your mind just because.

Something something look over there.

James Brown

janfebmar wrote: »

We were as democratic as most other countries in the world then. You cannot deny the rebels were spat on and jeered by the people of Dublin after they surrendered.
Any luck finding anyone else from Ireland who sided with the Nazis during ww2? 100,000 served with the British, with many more in factories, hospitals etc.

So not democratic. You're 'everyone else is doing it so why couldn't we' defense
I'm honestly not sure what your point is or where you are trying to take this.

Odhinn

Matt Barrett wrote: »

So not democratic. You're 'everyone else is doing it so why couldn't we' defense
I'm honestly not sure what your point is or where you are trying to take this.

But Devalera. Because. Anything other than 70-80 years of unrestricted loyalist bully boy marches.

James Brown

Odhinn wrote: »

But Devalera. Because. Anything other than 70-80 years of unrestricted loyalist bully boy marches.

TBF marches were invented by a fella knew an Irish man....something...

trashcan

janfebmar wrote: »

We were as democratic as most other countries in the world then. You cannot deny the rebels were spat on and jeered by the people of Dublin after they surrendered.
Any luck finding anyone else from Ireland who sided with the Nazis during ww2? 100,000 served with the British, with many more in factories, hospitals etc.

Pretty quick turn around in opinion then for a country that had so little interest in independence. The loyalty to the crown could have been that great if all it took was shooting a few rebels to turn it on its head.

I wasn't around during WW two, but I imagine the reason so many joined up was that they recognised the threat the Nazis posed, rather than some knee jerk run to back up Britain.

Sofiztikated

trashcan wrote: »

Pretty quick turn around in opinion then for a country that had so little interest in independence. The loyalty to the crown could have been that great if all it took was shooting a few rebels to turn it on its head.

I wasn't around during WW two, but I imagine the reason so many joined up was that they recognised the threat the Nazis posed, rather than some knee jerk run to back up Britain.

I'd also be of the opinion that some of it was "I need some money to feed my family, oh look, the army is hiring." Supply shortages and resulting inflation.

RobMc59

Matt Barrett wrote: »

TBF marches were invented by a fella knew an Irish man....something...

That statement about if you`re born in Ireland you are Irish is haunting you and francie Matt-Irish people contributed to Britain`s rise and in your heart you know it`s true.

FrancieBrady

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I'd also be of the opinion that some of it was "I need some money to feed my family, oh look, the army is hiring." Supply shortages and resulting inflation.

Indeed.
A lot of the spitting and anger at the rebels came from women...women who feared the loss of the Separation Allowance given to the wives of serving soldiers in Europe. The Empire centric media were happy to portray this as the feelings of the whole country. That was wholly wrong as events would show.

Odhinn

Matt Barrett wrote: »

TBF marches were invented by a fella knew an Irish man....something...

That's good enough fer me. The pope was obviously at the root of it all.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

That statement about if you`re born in Ireland you are Irish is haunting you and francie Matt-Irish people contributed to Britain`s rise and in your heart you know it`s true.

Nobody is denying this Rob...why are you pretending? There are still people who feel it was all a terrible mistake...can you not spot them?

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nobody is denying this Rob...why are you pretending? There are still people who feel it was all a terrible mistake...can you not spot them?

Sean Russell felt it was all a terrible mistake....until he took that u boat ride with the Germans. See what they done to him?

steddyeddy

blanch152 wrote: »

I know you couldn't care less, but there were four home countries of the British Empire - England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. They all share the blame for what the British Empire did.

We were never a colony, we were one of the home countries.

Yes, we rebelled and rejected Britain in the end, but until 1919, there was no popular support for independence.

B what sort of history are you reading. There was massive support for home rule. Don't forget for most of our history we had zero support in Westminster. Do you mean there was no appetite for rebellions?

B I'll ask you again. Was Ireland considered an equal in the empire?

Odhinn

janfebmar wrote: »

Sean Russell felt it was all a terrible mistake....until he took that u boat ride with the Germans. See what they done to him?

What has that to do with orange marches through nationalist areas?

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

I know you couldn't care less, but there were four home countries of the British Empire

You try far, far too hard.