The glorious 12th

janfebmar

steddyeddy wrote: »

. Was Ireland considered an equal in the empire?

We certainly got our fair share of investment per head of population when it came to building harbours, railways, canals, lighthouses, universities, beautiful buildings, trams etc. When the British were here, we had three times more railways than we have now...all parts of the rural west etc were linked by train. Our tram system was considered the most advanced in the world and people came from all over to study it. Now people come from all over to study how NOT to do traffic management.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

We certainly got our fair share of investment per head of population when it came to building harbours, railways, canals, lighthouses, universities, beautiful buildings, trams etc. When the British were here, we had three times more railways than we have now...all parts of the rural west etc were linked by train. Our tram system was considered the most advanced in the world and people came from all over to study it. Now people come from all over to study how NOT to do traffic management.

The 'proud' Irish woman who only criticises 'extremist republicans' speaks again.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 'proud' Irish woman who only criticises 'extremist republicans' speaks again.

I was answering steddyeddies question. I thought the mod told you to go for the ball, not the player?

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

I was answering steddyeddies question. I thought the mod told you to go for the ball, not the player?

Earlier you claimed you were not 'anti Irish'. A post were you once again praise 'what Britain did for us (or as most realists would say: for themselves) and make a derogatory comment about Ireland highlights the fact that you were lying about yourself.

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

I know you couldn't care less, but there were four home countries of the British Empire - England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. They all share the blame for what the British Empire did.

Thats nonsense in fairness. The 'countries' as you call them were merely entities on a map. Britain was a highly centralised state in the 19th and early 20th centuries, with policy dictated by the government in London. Its that government (the British government) that is solely responsible.

steddyeddy

Indeed. I mean using common sense look at Northern Ireland as it is today! Is it treated as an equal part of the UK?

Odhinn

janfebmar wrote: »

We certainly got our fair share of investment per head of population when it came to building harbours, railways, canals, lighthouses, universities, beautiful buildings, trams etc. When the British were here, we had three times more railways than we have now...all parts of the rural west etc were linked by train. Our tram system was considered the most advanced in the world and people came from all over to study it. Now people come from all over to study how NOT to do traffic management.

And that has to do with orange marches through catholic/nationalist areas how, exactly?

James Brown

RobMc59 wrote: »

That statement about if you`re born in Ireland you are Irish is haunting you and francie Matt-Irish people contributed to Britain`s rise and in your heart you know it`s true.

You mean because different Irish people have different opinions from one another? Seriously?

Ireland was part of Britain by invasion and occupation. Anyone willing siding with the British is their own business. The government of the day didn't speak for Ireland Rob.

James Brown

janfebmar wrote: »

Sean Russell felt it was all a terrible mistake....until he took that u boat ride with the Germans. See what they done to him?

This is getting sad Jan. Some Irish lad did something...so what?

RobMc59

Deleted User wrote: »

Thats nonsense in fairness. The 'countries' as you call them were merely entities on a map. Britain was a highly centralised state in the 19th and early 20th centuries, with policy dictated by the government in London. Its that government (the British government) that is solely responsible.

People like Kitchener and The Duke of Wellington-English/(not)Irish/anglo irish people but definitely NOT Irish,now the latest-the countries of the 19th century UK did`nt exist and were merely entities on a map-you could`nt make it up unless you were a script writer for fawlty towers or some other hilarious comedy of that ilk.

Odhinn

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You mean because different Irish people have different opinions from one another? Seriously?

Ireland was part of Britain by invasion and occupation. Anyone willing siding with the British is their own business. The government of the day didn't speak for Ireland Rob.

Elevating an anglo irish elite over the majority irish population, whereas in Uganda they imported families from India (as it was then) to be a upper class to deal with the native African"blacks". In india they divided education and pushed the seperatness of hindu and muslim, lest they unite for another rebellion post 1857. Divide and conquer writ large.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

People like Kitchener and The Duke of Wellington-English/(not)Irish/anglo irish people but definitely NOT Irish,now the latest-the countries of the 19th century UK did`nt exist and were merely entities on a map-you could`nt make it up unless you were a script writer for fawlty towers or some other hilarious comedy of that ilk.

Kitchener never denied he was Irish, but he most certainly identified as British.
Same with the Duke:

'Just because you are born in a stable it doesn't make you a horse'

In other words..I was born in Ireland but I identify as British.

Odhinn

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Kitchener never denied he was Irish, but he most certainly identified as British.
Same with the Duke:

'Just because you are born in a stable it doesn't make you a horse'

In other words..I was born in Ireland but I identify as British.

..and there was the born in ireland but wanting to be a partner in Empire brigade, from Daniel O'Connell to John Redmond.

FrancieBrady

Odhinn wrote: »

..and there was the born in ireland but wanting to be a partner in Empire brigade, from Daniel O'Connell to John Redmond.

I wonder would janfebmar have been happy to be a part of the Empire?

Would you janfebmar?

RobMc59

RobMc59 wrote: »

People like Kitchener and The Duke of Wellington-English/(not)Irish/anglo irish people but definitely NOT Irish,now the latest-the countries of the 19th century UK did`nt exist and were merely entities on a map-you could`nt make it up unless you were a script writer for fawlty towers or some other hilarious comedy of that ilk.

You are obsessing with the absolute trivial. These people no matter where they were born, were loyal to, and served the British government in London. To say ‘Ireland’ played a part in the policies of the British Empire, because these people were merely born here is just odd, or maybe you have Stockholm Syndrome?

Fionn1952

Deleted User wrote: »

RobMc59 wrote: »

People like Kitchener and The Duke of Wellington-English/(not)Irish/anglo irish people but definitely NOT Irish,now the latest-the countries of the 19th century UK did`nt exist and were merely entities on a map-you could`nt make it up unless you were a script writer for fawlty towers or some other hilarious comedy of that ilk.

You are obsessing with the absolute trivial. These people no matter where they were born, were loyal to, and served the British government in London. To say ‘Ireland’ played a part in the policies of the British Empire, because these people were merely born here is just odd, or maybe you have Stockholm Syndrome?

No, Rob is English, it's a mixture of denial and a superiority complex.

janfebmar

steddyeddy wrote: »

I mean using common sense look at Northern Ireland as it is today! Is it treated as an equal part of the UK?

More than equal, because it get 11 billion or whatever in subsidies each year, plus it has all the advantages and security of belonging to a G7 nation.

I mean using common sense look at Ireland as it is today! Is it treated as an equal part of the EU? We now have to pay in to Europe on a net basis, the days of massive handouts are over. Look at how Europe treated us over the bank bailout. We will have an EU army in a few years time, Germany and France want it, I wonder how that will go down?

Fionn1952 wrote: »

No, Rob is English, it's a mixture of denial and a superiority complex.

You are saying because he is English, that explains his denial and a superiority complex? Charming.

janfebmar

Deleted User wrote: »

These people no matter where they were born, were loyal to, and served the British government in London. To say ‘Ireland’ played a part in the policies of the British Empire, because these people were merely born here is just odd,

Not odd at all, young man. As someone else said, " We were never a colony - one the contrary, we were the colonisers. Irish soldiers, sailors, civil servants and politicians all participated in the creation and administration of that vast worldwide empire, as did the English, Scots and Welsh.

By achieving independence we also seem to have achieved collective absolution internationally for our part in the colonising of so many parts of the world. Also, like the young protester outside Croke Park before the first rugby game played there, holding a sign saying "no foreign games" while wearing a Celtic soccer shirt, we also seem to have a mixed-up national memory.

If the empire existed today, to be politically correct, it would have to be known as the British and Irish Empire, just like the Lions rugby team."

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

Not odd at all, young man. As someone else said, " We were never a colony - one the contrary, we were the colonisers. Irish soldiers, sailors, civil servants and politicians all participated in the creation and administration of that vast worldwide empire, as did the English, Scots and Welsh.

By achieving independence we also seem to have achieved collective absolution internationally for our part in the colonising of so many parts of the world. Also, like the young protester outside Croke Park before the first rugby game played there, holding a sign saying "no foreign games" while wearing a Celtic soccer shirt, we also seem to have a mixed-up national memory.

If the empire existed today, to be politically correct, it would have to be known as the British and Irish Empire, just like the Lions rugby team."

Ireland was ruled as a colony/nice name: home country, by the Anglo Irish ascendancy, there was NEVER a democratic decision taken by the people.
It is like trying to claim all the German people were Nazis, it might suit certain agendas, but it couldn't be further from the factual truth.

janfebmar

janfebmar wrote: »

Not odd at all, young man. As someone else said, " We were never a colony - one the contrary, we were the colonisers. Irish soldiers, sailors, civil servants and politicians all participated in the creation and administration of that vast worldwide empire, as did the English, Scots and Welsh.

By achieving independence we also seem to have achieved collective absolution internationally for our part in the colonising of so many parts of the world. Also, like the young protester outside Croke Park before the first rugby game played there, holding a sign saying "no foreign games" while wearing a Celtic soccer shirt, we also seem to have a mixed-up national memory.

If the empire existed today, to be politically correct, it would have to be known as the British and Irish Empire, just like the Lions rugby team."

What a lovely fairytale. Indians, Africans etc didnt make such distinctions. I’m sure the Indians in particular in the aftermath of the 1857 uprising hadn’t the luxury of distinguishing the nationality of those in the British army who were butchering them by the thousands in murderous reprisals.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

What a lovely fairytale. Indians, Africans etc didnt make such distinctions. I’m sure the Indians in particular in the aftermath of the 1857 uprising hadn’t the luxury of distinguishing the nationality of those in the British army who were butchering them by the thousands in murderous reprisals.

Janfebmar has never gotten over our emphatic rejection of the Empire, when the PEOPLE got control of their destiny and fate. We began the end of British Empire days, something the Indians recognise us for.

Odhinn

janfebmar wrote: »

Not odd at all, young man. As someone else said, " We were never a colony - one the contrary, we were the colonisers. Irish soldiers, sailors, civil servants and politicians all participated in the creation and administration of that vast worldwide empire, as did the English, Scots and Welsh.

By achieving independence we also seem to have achieved collective absolution internationally for our part in the colonising of so many parts of the world. Also, like the young protester outside Croke Park before the first rugby game played there, holding a sign saying "no foreign games" while wearing a Celtic soccer shirt, we also seem to have a mixed-up national memory.

If the empire existed today, to be politically correct, it would have to be known as the British and Irish Empire, just like the Lions rugby team."

What's that to do with orange marches ??

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Kitchener never denied he was Irish, but he most certainly identified as British.
Same with the Duke:

'Just because you are born in a stable it doesn't make you a horse'

In other words..I was born in Ireland but I identify as British.

Apparently, while there is no evidence of Wellington saying that O'Connell is recorded as having said it about Wellington at a monster meeting in Mullaghmast in 1843:

“The poor old duke what shall I say of him. To be sure he was born in Ireland, but being born in a stable does not make a man a horse.”

janfebmar

Odhinn wrote: »

What's that to do with orange marches ??

Why don't you you ask 17-pdr, I answered one of his points.

trashcan

janfebmar wrote: »

If the empire existed today, to be politically correct, it would have to be known as the British and Irish Empire, just like the Lions rugby team."

But it never was known as the British and Irish Empire was it ? Which kind of gives the lie to that little fiction. Sure there were Irish men in the British army, maybe even some at a high level, that doesn't mean Ireland played a full and equal part as a coloniser.

Fionn1952

janfebmar wrote: »

steddyeddy wrote: »

I mean using common sense look at Northern Ireland as it is today! Is it treated as an equal part of the UK?

More than equal, because it get 11 billion or whatever in subsidies each year, plus it has all the advantages and security of belonging to a G7 nation.

I mean using common sense look at Ireland as it is today! Is it treated as an equal part of the EU? We now have to pay in to Europe on a net basis, the days of massive handouts are over. Look at how Europe treated us over the bank bailout. We will have an EU army in a few years time, Germany and France want it, I wonder how that will go down?

Fionn1952 wrote: »

No, Rob is English, it's a mixture of denial and a superiority complex.

You are saying because he is English, that explains his denial and a superiority complex? Charming.

Once more, poor reading comprehension, Jan.

He can't have Stockholm syndrome, because he's English (hopefully I don't have to explain the context of that to you and all), the explanation for his attitude is denial and a superiority complex. Huge numbers of British people manage to get by just fine without either. You'd be more the Stockholm syndrome type yourself.

janfebmar

trashcan wrote: »

But it never was known as the British and Irish Empire was it ? .

Because that would be too much of a mouthful. We were part of the British Isles, some would say still are, as that is a geographical term. We were a home country.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

Because that would be too much of a mouthful. We were part of the British Isles,

So it wasn't called the The British and Irish Empire because it was too much of a mouthful, and the United Kingdom Of Great Britain and Northern Ireland isn't?

Pray tell where your sources for this nugget of research are? Did you hear that on the telly 40 years ago?

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So it wasn't called the The British and Irish Empire because ..

The British Empire came from the British Isles. Ireland was very much part of the British Isles, no question about that.

The Italian Empire came from Italy and Sicily, nobody called it the Italian and Sicilian Empire.

Fionn1952

Fionn1952 wrote: »

No, Rob is English, it's a mixture of denial and a superiority complex.

Didn’t know he was tbh. As you say, there may be a superiority complex at work here. ‘Empire nostalgia’ maybe? A common affliction over there since 2016. That so many Britons have an utterly immature relationship with Europe is causing them difficulties on so many fronts the poor wee things......