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The glorious 12th

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    #4382
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,848 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    It's not rocket science B.

    Let's simplify it.

    The state's borders was engineered to ensure a unionist majority. This is the problem for nationalists. Not that they hadn't a vote in the 1973 elections, but that the state was gerrymandered that they were always going to be a minority and they're vote was meaningless.

    What was the use of a vote in a state that was engineered so that there would always be a majority unionist?

    The reason why Northern ireland was never going to work.


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    #4383
    citytillidie
    Registered Users Posts: 22,165 ✭✭✭✭citytillidie


    Lol at going on about a vote where British Occupied Ireland was a majority unionist state at the start of the troubles. It has no bearing now when you think of the current situation with Brexit coming up and a majority of who voted in the in British Occupied Ireland voted to remain in the EU. 1973 border poll will have zero effect on any future polls and well if leaving the EU costs all those unionist farmers lots of money you may see a big change in the voting

    ******



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    #4384
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Why would you reduce the number of polling stations for instance if not to restrict the amount of people getting to vote.

    .

    Everyone was entitled to vote and not too far from a polling station. Bear mind the pIRA were creating mayhem in the province at the time and threatened to bomb the polling stations, as far as I remember.


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    #4385
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Everyone was entitled to vote and not too far from a polling station. Bear mind the pIRA were creating mayhem in the province at the time and threatened to bomb the polling stations, as far as I remember.

    Ah J cmon. This is from the same category of thinking that makes you think that your tires will get slashed for voting unionist so that's why you have to say "the 6 counties" instead of the North.


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    #4386
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Ah J cmon. This is from the same category of thinking that makes you think that your tires will get slashed for voting unionist so that's why you have to say "the 6 counties" instead of the North.

    I never said your tyres will get slashed for voting unionist.

    And I do not care what people call NI, the 6 counties, Londonderry, Derry etc. There is more in life to worry about.


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    #4387
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,848 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Everyone was entitled to vote and not too far from a polling station. Bear mind the pIRA were creating mayhem in the province at the time and threatened to bomb the polling stations, as far as I remember.

    Have a read of this and tell us that the IRA were the only ones 'creating mayhem'.

    Why you have to constantly lie to make a point is unbelievable. You might cod blanch downcow and Rob, who will doubtless ride in on white horses behind you, but you are convincing no-one with this nonsense. NI was in full blown conflict/war in 1973. As horrible and tragic as it got.

    https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/othelem/chron/ch73.htm


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    #4388
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    janfebmar wrote: »
    I never said your tyres will get slashed for voting unionist.

    And I do not care what people call NI, the 6 counties, Londonderry, Derry etc. There is more in life to worry about.

    Just your windows broken maybe.


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    #4389
    davycc
    Registered Users Posts: 9,019 ✭✭✭davycc


    M
    steddyeddy wrote: »
    janfebmar wrote: »
    I never said your tyres will get slashed for voting unionist.

    And I do not care what people call NI, the 6 counties, Londonderry, Derry etc. There is more in life to worry about.

    Just your windows broken maybe.

    Maybe the US bomber crew hit your windows by mistake j when throwing their poo out the plane at 10 thousand ft ..
    Friendly fire I believe is the euphemism


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    #4390
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Have a read of this and tell us that the IRA were the only ones 'creating mayhem'.

    l]

    Nobody claimed the IRA were the only ones creating mayhem : however, in relation to the point about the risk of polling stations being attacked, it was the pIRA who threatened to attack them. There were still 380 polling stations used on polling day, so for a place the size of N Ireland nobody was too far from a polling station. You cannot use that excuse. The authorities had mobile polling stations ready in case some polling stations were attacked.

    The result anyway was the majority of the electorate wanted to stay with the UK.


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    #4391
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    blanch152 wrote: »

    A majority of the electorate voted in favour of the Union in 1973. That was a democratic vote that Sinn Fein and the IRA ignored in favour of support for a terrorist campaign.

    Well said, and that is why extremist Republicans do not like being reminded about the poll in 1973. They know the armed struggle of the next few decades achieved nothing except misery for both sides.


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    #4392
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,848 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Nobody claimed the IRA were the only ones creating mayhem : however, in relation to the point about the risk of polling stations being attacked, it was the pIRA who threatened to attack them. There were still 380 polling stations used on polling day, so for a place the size of N Ireland nobody was too far from a polling station. You cannot use that excuse. The authorities had mobile polling stations ready in case some polling stations were attacked.

    The result anyway was the majority of the electorate wanted to stay with the UK.

    900 polling centres reduced to 380 in 1973 and 620 used in 2016, I think calls into question the desire of the pollsters to test all of the opinion.
    I know, because I was 13 years of age in '73 and I know how much mobility has increased since then.

    The British Labour party were totally correct to question the curious reduction.

    I think the reason info is sparse on this referendum is directly related to how spurious it was.

    As to your usual nonsense about the 'RA...how can you ignore unionist reaction during 73? Ridiculous.


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    #4393
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,848 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    davycc wrote: »
    M

    Maybe the US bomber crew hit your windows by mistake j when throwing their poo out the plane at 10 thousand ft ..
    Friendly fire I believe is the euphemism

    :D:D:D never thought of that explanation Davy! Possible...just possible. :)


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    #4394
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I think the reason info is sparse on this referendum is directly related to how spurious it was.

    .

    Info is no more sparse than it is on referendums here south of the border in the 1970s. It was before the internet age. The result of the referendum is not in doubt. Why did the pIRA attack government targets and threaten to attack polling stations? There is no claim or evidence that the polling stations were not fairly or evenly distributed throughout Northern Ireland. 380 is a large amount of polling stations and everyone had a vote.


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    #4395
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,848 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Info is no more sparse than it is on referendums here south of the border in the 1970s.

    Ok. Can you link us to info like this on the 1973 referendum? Enough ****etalk...either link to similar detail or retract your lie.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_United_Kingdom_European_Communities_membership_referendum
    380 is a large amount of polling stations and everyone had a vote.

    No, it most certainly isn't, if the previous figure was 900 and the modern figure is 620.
    It represents an attempt to restrict the ability of the maximum number to vote.


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    #4396
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,909 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    It's not rocket science B.

    Let's simplify it.

    The state's borders was engineered to ensure a unionist majority. This is the problem for nationalists. Not that they hadn't a vote in the 1973 elections, but that the state was gerrymandered that they were always going to be a minority and they're vote was meaningless.

    What was the use of a vote in a state that was engineered so that there would always be a majority unionist?


    If that is the position of nationalists, and I will take your word for it, then the GFA was a major defeat for them for it copperfastened that gerrymandering.


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    #4397
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,848 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    If that is the position of nationalists, and I will take your word for it, then the GFA was a major defeat for them for it copperfastened that gerrymandering.

    Ah...now you think the armed struggle should have continued if nationalists were to have credibility.

    All nationalists have to wait for is time to pass now, the British have tacitly withdrawn, the Unionists sickened them so much that they faced their veto down with the AIA, they won't be shooting innocents on the streets to shore up the sectarian statelet again.

    . And Brexit seems to be dramatically shortening that time. Why? Because partition was such a stupid idea to begin with, it was never going to work.


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    #4398
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Ah...now you think the armed struggle should have continued if nationalists were to have credibility.

    No, the armed struggle should not have existed or certainly continued if the nationalists who supported the armed struggle (and most did not) were to have credibility.


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    #4399
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    blanch152 wrote: »
    If that is the position of nationalists, and I will take your word for it, then the GFA was a major defeat for them for it copperfastened that gerrymandering.

    Well glad you agree that it was gerrymandering B. You don't have to take my word for it though. Look up the boundary commissions work on partition. It's hardly a state secret.

    Yes comprise was necessary on both sides. I'm sure unionists didn't like the idea of sharing power with the political wing of the IRA to them that must have felt like a defeat.


  • Options
    #4400
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    janfebmar wrote: »
    No, the armed struggle should have existed or certainly continued if the nationalists who supported the armed struggle (and most did not) were to have credibility.

    Jesus J, you're the most republican poster on here!


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    #4401
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,848 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    janfebmar wrote: »
    No, the armed struggle should have existed or certainly continued if the nationalists who supported the armed struggle (and most did not) were to have credibility.
    Don't be running away now jan...you have questions to answer.
    Ok. Can you link us to info like this on the 1973 referendum? Enough ****etalk...either link to similar detail or retract your lie.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_United_Kingdom_European_Communities_membership_referendum


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    #4402
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Don't be running away now jan...you have questions to answer.

    The info on the border poll referendum is easily available if you look for it. It was a simple question. Only two choices. The results are well know. You obviously do not like the result, that is your problem.


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    #4403
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Jesus J, you're the most republican poster on here!

    Sorry, typo while doing something else. I meant to say "the armed struggle should not have existed or certainly continued if the nationalists who supported the armed struggle (and most did not) were to have credibility."


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    #4404
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,848 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    janfebmar wrote: »
    The info on the border poll referendum is easily available if you look for it.
    Link to similar info I linked to for 70's plebiscites then. Because I have often searched for it and cannot find anything nearly like it.

    YOU CLAIMED IT, you back it up.
    It was a simple question. Only two choices. The results are well know. You obviously do not like the result, that is your problem.
    The result was always going to be the result because of partition...but things have changed substantially....who doesn't want a border poll now?


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    #4405
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Because I have often searched for it and cannot find anything nearly like it.

    Try google. You claimed "info is sparse on this referendum". At least now you are accepting the result of the referendum. There is plenty of information on it if you google correctly. Failing that, try another search engine. ;)

    As someone else said ""In addition to taking a majority of votes cast, the UK option received the support of 57.5% of the total electorate." Do you not agree that those who carried out the armed struggle for decades afterwards ignored the democratic wishes of the majority in N. Ireland, and caused extensive misery, all for nothing?


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    #4406
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,848 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Try google. You claimed "info is sparse on this referendum". At least now you are accepting the result of the referendum. There is plenty of information on it if you google correctly. Failing that, try another search engine. ;)

    I long ago accepted the result of 'this' referendum as a farce as do any serious pundits. journalist or politicians.


    You said:
    janfebmar wrote:
    Info is no more sparse than it is on referendums here south of the border in the 1970s.

    I showed you this info on a referendum in the south a year before the northern one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland


    and for good measure one in the UK 2 years after.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_United_Kingdom_European_Communities_membership_referendum


    Where is there similar data as you claimed?


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    #4407
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I long ago accepted the result of 'this' referendum as a farce as do any serious pundits. journalist or politicians.

    Show me any serious pundit, journalist or politician who does not understand or accept that " In addition to taking a majority of votes cast, the UK option received the support of 57.5% of the total electorate."

    The beauty of a referendum Francie is that it is simple to understand, and should not need much explanation, even for you.


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    #4408
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,848 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Show me any serious pundit, journalist or politician who does not understand or accept that " In addition to taking a majority of votes cast, the UK option received the support of 57.5% of the total electorate."

    janfebmar!!! Come on, back up what you claimed.


    You said:
    janfebmar wrote:
    Info is no more sparse than it is on referendums here south of the border in the 1970s.

    I showed you this info on a referendum in the south a year before the northern one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland


    and for good measure one in the UK 2 years after.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_United_Kingdom_European_Communities_membership_referendum


    Where is there similar data as you claimed?


  • Options
    #4409
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    janfebmar!!! Come on, back up what you claimed.


    You said:



    I showed you this info on a referendum in the south a year before the northern one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland


    and for good measure one in the UK 2 years after.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_United_Kingdom_European_Communities_membership_referendum


    Where is there similar data as you claimed?

    People can enter what they want on Wikipedia. The UK entry in to the EEC was a more complicated matter and affected much more people than the referendum in N. Ireland.
    Both referendums are however covered in Wikipedia.

    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    There was never a referendum on, 'Would you like the brits to stay?'.

    Yes there was, even Francie accepts that now. The 1973 border poll. Google it. Even Wiki has a long article on it.


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    #4410
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,848 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    janfebmar wrote: »
    People can enter what they want on Wikipedia. The UK entry in to the EEC was a more complicated matter and affected much more people than the referendum in N. Ireland.
    Both referendums are however covered in Wikipedia.


    Ah ok. The data isn't available because people forgot to put it up. :D:D:D:D:D:D

    As ever jan, you demonstrate what a fabulous subject* you are.

    *No similarities to 'indefatigable subjects' of the UK are intended or implied but make your own mind up folks!


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    #4411
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Ah ok. The data isn't available because people forgot to put it up. :D:D:D:D:D:D

    Naw, it is up if you look for it. It is even on Wiki. I told you to google for it. I even think another poster gave a link earlier to make it even easier for you. I feel sorry for you. :D:D:D:D:D:D You are nearly as bad as Matt who said:
    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    There was never a referendum on, 'Would you like the brits to stay?'.


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