The glorious 12th

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

RobMc59 wrote: »

Indeed, the British are a terrible bunch-especially the privileged toffs in Westminster-I wonder if SF think that when they take their Queens shilling "expenses"

Do the people of northern Ireland not contribute to the 'queen's shilling'? Why wouldn't they take a living for representing their own people?

SF defeat their noble act of not participating in government by taking this money imo.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think it should be worn with an apology for the crimes committed if worn in a country were crimes were committed.

You can symbolise 'apology' just as you can 'memory' and 'respect'. The poppy combined with another flower maybe.

Maybe there could be another that could be worn with it apologising for not standing with Europe in her time of need. And another one for collaborating with the nazis.

biko

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

SF defeat their noble act of not participating in government by taking this money imo.

Why?

Do you believe they are sitting on their backsides as representatives? That I think you know is nonsense.

Northern Ireland contributes to the public purse, those who vote for SF pay taxes, they work for their electorate representing them, so why wouldn't they get paid for doing that?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

That would be an awful society to live in. My football shirt would be banned, as would gaa shirts, Irish language, rainbow colours, biblical messages on shirts, etc etc
Sounds like something North Korea or the alliance party would want.

Who gets offended by the wearing of a sports shirt or a language?

You'd think there was a massive festival every year burning these things or something!

biko

Infringement of freedom of expression always comes with the same "it could be offensive" label, and often from the same crowd.
We don't need less liberties, we need more.

If someone wants to control your speech they are not your friend.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

those who vote for SF pay taxes,

Slab and the good people of west Belfast? err, not as much as they get from the taxpayer though.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

Slab and the good people of west Belfast? err, not as much as they get from the taxpayer though.

And Jan cherrypicks again.

Maybe the Shinners could run a heating scheme, call it something like RHI, to survive?...har de har har, nudge nudge wink wink snigger snigger!

FrancieBrady

biko wrote: »

Infringement of freedom of expression.

Recognising the hurt caused in the country you are wearing a symbol, would surely be an 'enhancement' of expression?

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And Jan cherrypicks again.

Maybe the Shinners could run a heating scheme, call it something like RHI, to survive?...

I would say they do well enough with the fuel washing and smuggling as it is. No need to burn wood pellets, sure was'nt a shinner found burning northern bank notes in his fireplace in Cork some years ago?

Sunny Disposition

biko wrote: »

They can wear the poppy as they like, just like republicans wear the lily without apology.

Absolutely, no one should ever try and force anyone not to wear a symbol.
Still, the poppy is very offensive given how the British Army have killed innocent people and then sought to blacken the dead people afterwards, while minimizing their own responsibility.
On the same topic the Support Soldier F banners are in extremely bad taste, really hope ordinary decent unionists are appalled by them.
To me it’d be like Republicans putting up banners saying Support Enniskillen bombers or something. Grotesque.

FrancieBrady

Maybe that could be one of the achievements of a UI?

A symbol to remember all the dead in the various conflicts/wars here. A genuine gesture of healing.

downcow

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Absolutely, no one should ever try and force anyone not to wear a symbol.
Still, the poppy is very offensive given how the British Army have killed innocent people and then sought to blacken the dead people afterwards, while minimizing their own responsibility.
On the same topic the Support Soldier F banners are in extremely bad taste, really hope ordinary decent unionists are appalled by them.
To me it’d be like Republicans putting up banners saying Support Enniskillen bombers or something. Grotesque.

There are banners up all over the place supporting the hinger strikers. And we all know what they done

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

There are banners up all over the place supporting the hinger strikers. And we all know what they done

The only way to stop tit for tat 'causing of offence' is to stop the state funded, officially supported ones first and then bring pressure to bear on acts like you point out.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Maybe that could be one of the achievements of a UI?

A symbol to remember all the dead in the various conflicts/wars here. A genuine gesture of healing.

You don’t need to wait for a UI to do that. Sure have a go now and see how it catches on.
See how many unionists wear it when you tell them it includes Raymond mccliesh. And see how many nationalists wear it when you tell them it includes the shankill butchers.
If I was you I wouldn’t print to many in the first run.

Fionn1952

I still don't buy it, Francie. I can't quite verbalise what makes me feel disdainful towards the idea, but it strikes me as just a bit fluffy, 'now everyone hug'. It sounds like something a committee of hand-wringing types would come up with, not quite hated by anyone as much as what went before, but not actually embraced or enjoyed by anyone either.

I think the best we can aim for, at least in my lifetime, is a move towards respecting the right of others to remember their dead, and appreciating that those events of memoriam are neither the time nor the place to address other issues.

For example (and I could just as easily pick an example from the other side), a WWI/WWII memorial isnt the time or place to address the injustices carried out by the British army in the North.

janfebmar

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

On the same topic the Support Soldier F banners are in extremely bad taste, really hope ordinary decent unionists are appalled by them.
To me it’d be like Republicans putting up banners saying Support Enniskillen bombers or something. Grotesque.

The Enniskillen bombers, like the Claudy bombers and Bloody Friday bombers and Le Mons hotel bombers , planned to go out and murder innocent protestants. It was all pre planned and worked out. That is just one difference.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The only way to stop tit for tat 'causing of offence' is to stop the state funded, officially supported ones first and then bring pressure to bear on acts like you point out.

The banners are not state funded or officially supported.

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Maybe that could be one of the achievements of a UI?

A symbol to remember all the dead in the various conflicts/wars here. A genuine gesture of healing.

You don’t need to wait for a UI to do that. Sure have a go now and see how it catches on.
See how many unionists wear it when you tell them it includes Raymond mccliesh. And see how many nationalists wear it when you tell them it includes the shankill butchers.
If I was you I wouldn’t print to many in the first run.

Do you go out of your way to misspell every Republican's name you come across?

Perhaps I'm spotting a trend that doesn't exist, or it's genuine oversight on your part, but you regularly misspell simple names from the Nationalist side while easily managing to correctly spell more complex names from the Unionist side.

If it's intentional, would you terribly mind dropping it, because it detracts from a pretty reasonable point.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

I still don't buy it, Francie. I can't quite verbalise what makes me feel disdainful towards the idea, but it strikes me as just a bit fluffy, 'now everyone hug'. It sounds like something a committee of hand-wringing types would come up with, not quite hated by anyone as much as what went before, but not actually embraced or enjoyed by anyone either.

I think the best we can aim for, at least in my lifetime, is a move towards respecting the right of others to remember their dead, and appreciating that those events of memoriam are neither the time nor the place to address other issues.

For example (and I could just as easily pick an example from the other side), a WWI/WWII memorial isnt the time or place to address the injustices carried out by the British army in the North.

Yeah I could see that being a reasonable first step. And I could pick from both sides but public figures like James McLean could try a little harder not to associate the poppy directly with Bloody Sunday.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

The banners are not state funded or officially supported.

Orangefest is downcow and we all know what happens there. Months before hand the state sponsors/sanctions it by turning a blind eye to the prep. and while it burns.
The OO receives funding and is never ever under any restrictions or onus to back off contentious routes and marches.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Do you go out of your way to misspell every Republican's name you come across?

Perhaps I'm spotting a trend that doesn't exist, or it's genuine oversight on your part, but you regularly misspell simple names from the Nationalist side while easily managing to correctly spell more complex names from the Unionist side.

If it's intentional, would you terribly mind dropping it, because it detracts from a pretty reasonable point.

I can assure you I don’t. Simply don’t see the point in going away and googling the correct spelling.
You need to relax on that point. I could get on my high horse about people calling my flag the Union Jack but I don’t think most do it on purpose so I relax about it.
You can get chill pills for that condition

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Orangefest is downcow and we all know what happens there. Months before hand the state sponsors/sanctions it by turning a blind eye to the prep. and while it burns.
The OO receives funding and is never ever under any restrictions or onus to back off contentious routes and marches.

Ditto GAA
Ditto. illegal memorials on council property
Ditto west Belfast festival
Ditto st Patrick’s parades
Ditto ditto ditto

Sunny Disposition

janfebmar wrote: »

The Enniskillen bombers, like the Claudy bombers and Bloody Friday bombers and Le Mons hotel bombers , planned to go out and murder innocent protestants. It was all pre planned and worked out. That is just one difference.

I think the Enniskillen bombing was disgraceful, utterly evil, no doubt. But I would say the same about the shooting of innocent unarmed people like the dead on Bloody Sunday, when you shoot someone you surely plan to kill them. That’s why I think the Soldier F banners are in v poor taste. Do you genuinely disagree and think they are not in bad tast?

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Do you go out of your way to misspell every Republican's name you come across?

Perhaps I'm spotting a trend that doesn't exist, or it's genuine oversight on your part, but you regularly misspell simple names from the Nationalist side while easily managing to correctly spell more complex names from the Unionist side.

If it's intentional, would you terribly mind dropping it, because it detracts from a pretty reasonable point.

When it has been pointed out a number of times that you are spelling 'McGuinness 'wrong, and you still do it. You know exactly what the school yardish intent is.

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Do you go out of your way to misspell every Republican's name you come across?

Perhaps I'm spotting a trend that doesn't exist, or it's genuine oversight on your part, but you regularly misspell simple names from the Nationalist side while easily managing to correctly spell more complex names from the Unionist side.

If it's intentional, would you terribly mind dropping it, because it detracts from a pretty reasonable point.

I can assure you I don’t. Simply don’t see the point in going away and googling the correct spelling.
You need to relax on that point. I could get on my high horse about people calling my flag the Union Jack but I don’t think most do it on purpose so I relax about it.
You can get chill pills for that condition

It's quite common parlance to refer to the union flag as a union jack, so much so that I'd vouch more people refer to it as such.

Not asking you to go off and Google its just not go out if your way to spell incorrectly. For example, your continued misspelling of McGuinness, despite repeatedly being corrected on it by multiple posters.....including when replying to posts which include the correct spelling. You don't need to Google anything, just read the post you're actually replying to.

It's petty and costs you nothing to address.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Ditto GAA
Ditto. illegal memorials on council property
Ditto west Belfast festival
Ditto st Patrick’s parades
Ditto ditto ditto

And 'look over there at themuns' Rinse and Repeat.

'I am here to try and understand the problems with my community and why....' revealed as bull**** again.

Imreoir2

downcow wrote: »

Some shocking hatred being displayed here by a few republicans.and again no rational thinking with it.
Not wanting to give to earl haig fund in case a few soldiers who done wrong get some help.
If I was to take that attitude then I should give to no Irish charities as there is a far greater chance that some ira (who all done wrong) will get some help from my money.
Thankfully I am not quite that bitter twisted and sectarian.

That the Poppy represents not only the British soldiers who died at the Somme, but also the British soldiers who shot dead Pearce and Connolly is good enough reason for me not to wear it. That the money raised goes support to former British soldiers is another. Why would I as an Irish person want to raise money to support the soldiers of another nations army? That is before you consider the role some of them palyed in murdering my fellow citizens.

RobMc59

Fionn1952 wrote: »

downcow wrote: »

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Do you go out of your way to misspell every Republican's name you come across?

Perhaps I'm spotting a trend that doesn't exist, or it's genuine oversight on your part, but you regularly misspell simple names from the Nationalist side while easily managing to correctly spell more complex names from the Unionist side.

If it's intentional, would you terribly mind dropping it, because it detracts from a pretty reasonable point.

I can assure you I don’t. Simply don’t see the point in going away and googling the correct spelling.
You need to relax on that point. I could get on my high horse about people calling my flag the Union Jack but I don’t think most do it on purpose so I relax about it.
You can get chill pills for that condition

It's quite common parlance to refer to the union flag as a union jack, so much so that I'd vouch more people refer to it as such.

Not asking you to go off and Google its just not go out if your way to spell incorrectly. For example, your continued misspelling of McGuinness, despite repeatedly being corrected on it by multiple posters.....including when replying to posts which include the correct spelling. You don't need to Google anything, just read the post you're actually replying to.

It's petty and costs you nothing to address.

If you do actually Google it there are many different ways to spell that particular name-your own boards name has different spellings as may your surname if it is Irish or Scottish.

janfebmar

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

I think the Enniskillen bombing was disgraceful, utterly evil, no doubt. But I would say the same about the shooting of innocent unarmed people like the dead on Bloody Sunday, when you shoot someone you surely plan to kill them.

If you are sheltering behind a land rover and being attacked by hundreds of missiles in a riot, and the road is filled with missile debris ( as shown in the Irish times photo before the shooting started) , and you believe your life is in danger ( only 2 days previously other security force personnel were murdered in the same city by Republicans), then while 99.999% of the time the British army did not fire live rounds back, but in Derry they did, and you equate those soldiers with the pira who planned Enniskillen bombing and Le Mons hotel and Claudy bombing etc well in advance and murdered innocents?

Two different situations, I would think, and I do not condone those who shot people on Bloody Sunday.