The glorious 12th

citytillidie

janfebmar wrote: »

Only the UK of Britain and Ireland, France, Holland, Spain, Portugal, Denmark, Belgium, Germany, Italy...I could go on.
As a home country, we provided 30% of the administration in India.

You do know that Holland is not a country that is two provinces in Netherlands so Holland never had a colony.

FrancieBrady

citytillidie wrote: »

You do know that Holland is not a country that is two provinces in Netherlands so Holland never had a colony.

I think that other Empires that didn't effect us should be discussed in their own threads. I am sure they will attract defenders of the various colonising realms(maybe janfebmar defends them all, who knows) and their barbaric maintenance of control and the right to exploit.

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

citytillidie wrote: »

You do know that Holland is not a country that is two provinces in Netherlands so Holland never had a colony.

I think that other Empires that didn't effect us should be discussed in their own threads. I am sure they will attract defenders of the various colonising realms(maybe janfebmar defends them all, who knows) and their barbaric maintenance of control and the right to exploit.

That's a bit arrogant francie,citytillidie made an interesting point,it's not just about what you want to talk about.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

That's a bit arrogant francie,citytillidie made an interesting point,it's not just about what you want to talk about.

Nothing arrogant about asking what is the point of janfeb's constant deflection away from what she doesn't want highlighted.
Talk about the very bad and racist side of Churchill - deflect to the 'Notorious Dev'
Talk about the negative effects of the British Empire - deflect to other Empires.

etc etc rinse and repeat.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nothing arrogant about asking what is the point of janfeb's constant deflection away from what she doesn't want highlighted.

It is not deflection. I was answering other posters who did not know that all western European countries had colonies, and yet they were constantly whinging about Britain colonial past, like you.

citytillidie wrote: »

You do know that Holland is not a country that is two provinces in Netherlands so Holland never had a colony.

Apologies, you are correct. When I mentioned the UK, France, Holland, Spain, Portugal, Denmark, Belgium, Germany, Italy. etc etc, I meant of course the UK of Britain and Ireland, France, the Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, Denmark, Belgium, Germany, Italy etc etc as having colonies.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

It is not deflection. I was answering other posters who did not know that all western European countries had colonies, and yet they were constantly whinging
about Britain colonial past, like you.

You find 4 names on a feverish google search (while you were playing for time on thread were I would imagine all but the profoundly blind knew what you were doing) and you think you are a teacher now? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

It DOES NOT MATTER if they knew about other colonisers, it will not change one second of what the British one did here.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You find 4 names on a feverish google search (while you were playing for time on thread were I would imagine all but the profoundly blind knew what you were doing) .

Playing for time? If I remember correctly I was away from the internet for maybe 4 or 5 hours due to other commitments. It would not take anyone that long to google the names of the IRA men Develera executed. The point is you and another poster did not know or believe that Dev executed the 6, and I was hounded on a number of occasions to name them. I can only name 4 off the top of my head, you can google the other 2 if you want. You really got so annoyed on being found out on that, it was so funny. "Notorious Dev" (with a capital N) you call him now!

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

Playing for time? If I remember correctly I was away from the internet for maybe 4 or 5 hours due to other commitments. It would not take anyone that long to google the names of the IRA men Develera executed. The point is you and another poster did not know or believe that Dev executed the 6, and I was hounded on a number of occasions to name them. I can only name 4 off the top of my head, you can google the other 2 if you want. You really got so annoyed on being found out on that, it was so funny. "Notorious Dev" (with a capital N) you call him now!

I had nothing to do with the conversation janfebmar....and you posted a load of comments when you were asked for the names, to allow you to look them up.

AND ANYWAY....so what if nobody knew their names offhand...do you know the names of all killed in the most recent troubles?

No you don't....but as we all know you certainly know selected victims names because you are never slow to pathetically exploit them.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

AND ANYWAY....so what if nobody knew their names offhand..

Not the point: you or the other poster did not know that DeValera executed 6 IRA men in Irish prison. I suppose in fairness to you, it is not something most people learn at school. Amazing how you changed your views on Dev though. Now he is Notorious Dev to you!

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

Not the point: you or the other poster did not know that DeValera executed 6 IRA men in Irish prison. I suppose in fairness to you, it is not something most people learn at school.

Like other posters I am convinced you are not from Ireland. Only somebody living on myths (That it is all anti British propaganda) of what is taught on the Irish curriculum would keep saying this. Coincidentally it is an old style Unionist myth.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Like other posters I am convinced you are not from Ireland.

You are wrong. We all learnt about the men of 1916 executed by the British. I saw posters on walls, names on streets, there were 15 Irish railway stations renamed after the executed 1916 leaders etc. But the IRA men that Dev had executed in Irish prison, are they mentioned as much?

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

You are wrong. We all learnt about the men of 1916 executed by the British. I saw posters on walls, names on streets, there were 15 Irish railway stations renamed after the executed 1916 leaders etc. But the IRA men that Dev had executed in Irish prison, are they mentioned as much?

Why wouldn't you learn about the men who were pivotal in the Rising and who signed the Proclamation?

Everybody knows the history of our independence and civil war and the aftermath. Do they know the names of all killed = unlikely because there were so many.
But they certainly would know that DeValera had men executed unless they were sleeping down the back of the class or were being fed a Unionist myth that it isn't taught.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

But they certainly would know that DeValera had men executed unless they were sleeping down the back of the class

Why did you and the other poster not know so? lol.

Why was it ok to execute IRA men by firing squad in the 1940's (good Dev became Notorious Dev when you found that out) but it was not ok to execute IRA men decades later?

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

Why did you and the other poster not know so? lol.

I wasn't involved in the conversation janfebmar. How freaking desperate are you?

The conversation about Dev starts here at post 1917
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110800604&postcount=1917

I am not involved in the conversation at all, and despite being asked a number of times you refuse to name them. Colour me suspicious about that.

Why was it ok to execute IRA men by firing squad in the 1940's (good Dev became Notorious Dev when you found that out) but it was not ok to execute IRA men decades later?

What?

I have used the 'notorious Dev' (referencing you constantly bringing him up) long before that conversation too.

Stop digging holes and going up cul-de-sacs jan.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What?

I have used the 'notorious Dev' (referencing you constantly bringing him up) long before that conversation too.

Stop digging holes and going up cul-de-sacs jan.

You are caught lying yet again Francie and we can easily prove it. You can search the term "Notorious Dev" on boards.ie and you will see it was YOU who first used it only 1 day and 20 hours ago, in post no. 1748 on the Irish unification thread on which you have made many other posts.

And if you look at the conversation before you made the "Notorious Dev" comment, you will see you were in on the conversation.

Anyway, you have been proven to be telling lies yet again.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

You are caught lying yet again Francie and we can easily prove it. You can search the term "Notorious Dev" on boards.ie and you will see it was YOU who first used it only 1 day and 20 hours ago, in post no. 1748 on the Irish unification thread on which you have made many other posts.

And if you look at the conversation before you made the "Notorious Dev" comment, you will see you were in on the conversation.

Anyway, you have been proven to be telling lies yet again.

I can't be bothered to check that, but I have frequently called your hate and use of Dev bizarre. It's a fixation that has been noticed by more than me.

And I have also frequently said that Dev did some good and some bad. The 'notorious Dev' comment was parroting you. Sometimes anyone would think he was still around.


Can you show where I was involved in the conversation on this thread about the names of the people he executed. You tried to introduce it on the other thread for reasons best known to yourself (your fixation perhaps?)

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I can't be bothered to check that,

Because if you did, you would be proven to have been caught telling lies yet again. You used the "Notorious Dev" term, not me, after you discovered to your horror he executed 6 IRA men.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

but I have frequently called your hate and use of Dev bizarre. It's a fixation that has been noticed by more than me.

I do not have a fixation. I have a balanced view of him. You now think he was notorious for executing IRA men in prison, even Mrs Thatcher did not do that.
I am not surprised you think he was Notorious and I do not.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

Because if you did, you would be proven to have been caught telling lies yet again. You used the "Notorious Dev" term, not me, after you discovered to your horror he executed 6 IRA men.



I do not have a fixation. I have a balanced view of him. You now think he was notorious for executing IRA men in prison, even Mrs Thatcher did not do that.
I am not surprised you think he was Notorious and I do not.

You have a 'balanced view' of him. That should give a few of our regulars a giggle.

*I think you'll find that under Mrs Thatcher quite a few IRA members were executed and some who had the misfortune to appear to be members. That is why the Stevens report and the Patten commission got rid of the RUC as pointed out to you earlier.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You have a 'balanced view' of him. That should give a few of our regulars a giggle.

*I think you'll find that under Mrs Thatcher quite a few IRA members were executed and some who had the misfortune to appear to be members. That is why the Stevens report and the Patten commission got rid of the RUC as pointed out to you earlier.

Before deflecting to the Stevens report or the renaming of the RUC ( was not Telecom Eireann renamed and relaunched as well) , please read what I wrote. I said "You now think he was notorious for executing IRA men in prison, even Mrs Thatcher did not do that".

If you or the Stevens enquiry or Patten finds any evidence that Mrs T. executed any IRA men in prison, please let us know. Dev appeared to favour firing squad in prison, did Mrs T use that too?

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

Before deflecting to the Stevens report or the renaming of the RUC ( was not Telecom Eireann renamed and relaunched as well) , please read what I wrote. I said "You now think he was notorious for executing IRA men in prison, even Mrs Thatcher did not do that".

How would I think that, I've known since schooldays that IRA men were executed under the Emergency Provisions Act.
I remember the name of three of the Guards, as I share a surname with one and one of them had an unusual name, everytime I hear the name of current MP, she reminds me of him.
I wonder do any of our regular poster think you have an unusual fixation with Dev, as I called it.

If you or the Stevens enquiry or Patten finds any evidence that Mrs T. executed any IRA men in prison, please let us know. Dev appeared to favour firing squad in prison, did Mrs T use that too?

Under Dev IRA men were executed.
Under Maggie, IRA men were executed and some who just appeared to be IRA men.

Read John Stalker, the Stevens Reports. Read about Gibraltar and Loughgall or Shoot To Kill. (I'm sure Dev's firing squads were shooting to kill as well.)

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Under Dev IRA men were executed.

I am glad you accept that now. As you were informed, they were executed by firing squad in prison. I wrote "You now think he (Dev) was notorious for executing IRA men in prison, even Mrs Thatcher did not do that". (execute prisoners in prison).


You wrote

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Under Maggie, IRA men were executed and some who just appeared to be IRA men.

Perhaps you can tell us what prison Mrs T executed her IRA prisoners in, or have you not come to that chapter in the book yet? FYI, Loughall or Gibraltar are not prisons.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

I am glad you accept that now. As you were informed, they were executed by firing squad in prison. I wrote "You now think he (Dev) was notorious for executing IRA men in prison, even Mrs Thatcher did not do that". (execute prisoners in prison).

No. I have known that since schooldays.
Funny, I was searching the site there and having a laugh at your fixation with Dev and I came across somebody who thinks Dev hung them. Her 'memory isn't serving her seemingly, maybe she doesn't know there names either. Perhaps you should use your 'educational' talents on her.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102338432&postcount=1327

You wrote

Perhaps you can tell us what prison Mrs T executed her IRA prisoners in, or have you not come to that chapter in the book yet? FYI, Loughall or Gibraltar are not prisons.

I didn't say anything about prisons. Does it matter where you are executed...you end up dead either way.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I didn't say anything about prisons. Does it matter where you are executed...you end up dead either way.

In Loughgall which you mentioned, a heavily armed IRA gang who had murdered multiple times before according to ballistics, attacked a police station with a bomb in a digger and about 6 or 8 AK47 machine guns if I remember correctly. They were not fired on or engaged in battle until they first exploded the bomb in the station with the digger, injuring security force personnel inside. You honestly think that those IRA men were "executed " , even though they were killed in a gun battle after they first attacked the station and those inside? Get out of it.
And that their "execution" was similar to how Dev coldly planned and got a firing squad to execute already captured unarmed IRA prisoners in prison?
You remind me of another poster on another thread here who is justifying the murder of garda McCabe because he was armed and dared tried to prevent an armed pIRA robbery.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

In Loughgall which you mentioned, a heavily armed IRA gang who had murdered multiple times before according to ballistics, attacked a police station with a bomb in a digger and about 6 or 8 AK47 machine guns if I remember correctly. They were not fired on or engaged in battle until they first exploded the bomb in the station with the digger, injuring security force personnel inside. You honestly think that those IRA men were "executed " , even though they were killed in a gun battle after they first attacked the station and those inside? Get out of it.
And that their "execution" was similar to how Dev coldly planned and got a firing squad to execute already captured unarmed IRA prisoners in prison?
You remind me of another poster on another thread here who is justifying the murder of garda McCabe because he was armed and dared tried to prevent an armed pIRA robbery.

And we see the 'standards' you wish to hold a government and it's forces to.

If you give soldiers the right to administer summary justice then you are responsible for the deaths of innocents too. Because as we know soldiers have abused that right again and again, not just here either.

You give people the right to kill multiple innocents and then tell an inquiry or court/cover up for 40 years....'we thought we were under fire, we thought they were terrorists 'we were under duress because colleagues had been killed a day before', they were firing missiles etc etc,...I won't go on as you make the same excuses about these events and are familiar with them.

Again, I am not getting into dissecting individual events. Loughgall was an execution as surely as anything Dev did, was. They were not getting out of there alive, and neither was the innocent man sadly.

RobMc59

janfebmar wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I didn't say anything about prisons. Does it matter where you are executed...you end up dead either way.

In Loughgall which you mentioned, a heavily armed IRA gang who had murdered multiple times before according to ballistics, attacked a police station with a bomb in a digger and about 6 or 8 AK47 machine guns if I remember correctly. They were not fired on or engaged in battle until they first exploded the bomb in the station with the digger, injuring security force personnel inside. You honestly think that those IRA men were "executed " , even though they were killed in a gun battle after they first attacked the station and those inside? Get out of it.
And that their "execution" was similar to how Dev coldly planned and got a firing squad to execute already captured unarmed IRA prisoners in prison?
You remind me of another poster on another thread here who is justifying the murder of garda McCabe because he was armed and dared tried to prevent an armed pIRA robbery.

It gets even worse Jan,when it appears they were betrayed by their own...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/sinn-fein-denies-gerry-adams-set-up-ira-loughgall-ambush-1.3328744

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Again, I am not getting into dissecting individual events. Loughgall was an execution as surely as anything Dev did.

Loughgall was a gun and bomb battle, started with a large bomb and guns by the pIRA, the other side just had guns but came out on top. A completely different scenario to having men in prison, and then deciding to execute them by firing squad, as Dev did. Nice attempt at deflection though.
Why do you think it was ok for Dev ("Notorious Dev" as you now call him) to execute numerous IRA prisoners in prison, while Mrs T. Did not? Who do you now think is more notorious in your eyes, Mrs T or Dev?

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

Loughgall was a gun and bomb battle, started with a large bomb and guns by the pIRA, the other side just had guns but came out on top. A completely different scenario to having men in prison, and then deciding to execute them by firing squad, as Dev did. Nice attempt at deflection though.
Why do you think it was ok for Dev ("Notorious Dev" as you now call him) to execute numerous IRA prisoners in prison, while Mrs T. Did not? Who do you now think is more notorious in your eyes, Mrs T or Dev?

I think anyone who runs a state that administers summary justice and executions on the scale that Thatcher's and other British governments did and covered up/excused is much much worse in fairness.

In assessing what happened (Independence - the Civil War etc) and what had to be done to try and normalise this state after the chaos left behind by our colonisers (they left most places in a social mess) I would not be overly critical of Dev and his government. At least those men got some sort of trial, he wasn't taking extra judicial powers onto himself, there was legislation allowing him to do it legally even though I am against the death penalty in general

I am proud of the state we built and what it has become and the place it now holds in Europe. I am proud that we are diminishing our reliance on a neighbour whose establishment/government would use that reliance against us in their own typical selfish interests, as they are futilely trying now.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I wonder do any of our regular poster think you have an unusual fixation

I would guess that someone with an unusual fixation would probably be posting about it night and day and finish top poster every time in a thread about their unusual fixation.

I don't think the poster you referred to fits those criteria.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

I would guess that someone with an unusual fixation would probably be posting about it night and day and finish top poster every time in a thread about their unusual fixation.

I don't think the poster you referred to fits those criteria.

I live on the border and have no shame in discussing issues around that.

But interesting you bring it up AGAIN to deflect away from what you were actually asked about.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I live on the border and have no shame in discussing issues around that.

But interesting you bring it up AGAIN to deflect away from what you were actually asked about.

You asked regular posters as to whether they would consider a particular poster to have an unusual fixation.

I first defined what I would see as an unusual fixation, and concluded in the negative in respect of that poster.

That perfectly answered your question.