How common is it for people to never find an other half or have kids?

lainey_d_123

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It’s not any different to any other risk you’ll take when you choose to hook up with someone else.

Hogwash.

This is the sort of rubbish my ex came out with when he admitted he'd never wanted kids.

'You never know what'll happen in life', blah blah blah

No, you don't. But you CAN control what you tell other people, and you CAN avoid misleading people on purpose so you get what you want.

You can start dating someone who later dies or gets very sick or turns out to be gay or any number of unfortunate but unpredictable situations. That's just life, yes. Starting a relationship by misrepresenting who you are or what you're looking for isn't just part of life, or a normal risk. It's being a selfish c*nt.

I'm not sure how you can even argue with that.

One eyed Jack

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Hogwash.

This is the sort of rubbish my ex came out with when he admitted he'd never wanted kids.

'You never know what'll happen in life', blah blah blah

No, you don't. But you CAN control what you tell other people, and you CAN avoid misleading people on purpose so you get what you want.

You can start dating someone who later dies or gets very sick or turns out to be gay or any number of unfortunate but unpredictable situations. That's just life, yes. Starting a relationship by misrepresenting who you are or what you're looking for isn't just part of life, or a normal risk. It's being a selfish c*nt.

I'm not sure how you can even argue with that.

It’s easy to argue with it - it’s everyone’s personal responsibility to determine for themselves whether they’re being led up the garden path or not, and blaming someone else for being deceptive doesn’t do anything to address the fact that you were attracted to the person they purported to be. It’s an awkward realisation, but you learn from it and move on, rather than harbouring on it and allowing yourself to become resentful about it.

Am I the only one who thought Lainey had been here for years?

But on topic, really, we've been in a period of transition in how relationships are and people's attitudes to sex and children..People are a lot more concerned with themselves the last while too.. this may not all be positive,.it will probably only become clear in time..

lainey_d_123

Deleted User wrote: »

But on topic, really, we've been in a period of transition in how relationships are and people's attitudes to sex and children..People are a lot more concerned with themselves the last while too.. this may not all be positive,.it will probably only become clear in time..

This is definitely true. Whether it's a good thing or a bad thing or a bit of both, I'm not entirely sure.

Talia Late Crosswalk

Talia Late Crosswalk wrote: »

I think it can be harder to find a man who has a definite and secure position on it, though overall there are probably more men than women who don't want kids.

I'm at the age where people in my social circle are starting to have kids and it's kind of staggering the amount of my men friends who respond to the "who's going to be having kids" conversations that are arising with "Oh god I dunno really, haven't really thought too much about it" whereas most women I know would have been fairly certain what they wanted or at least considered it extensively since their early-mid twenties.

I just don't think I'd like to set up a life with someone when there was that level of uncertainty, or to feel that I was pushing them to decide, and decide my way. The thought of someone changing (or making up ) their mind after however many years and ending the relationship over it would be awful.

My OH gets moments of ambivalence about it but generally spending some time minding kids snaps him back

i think this is a very well-put description of the gap relevant to the "men who dont tell you til you're 30 are bastards" discussion

fellas, an awful lot of them compared to women ime, *are* ambivalent enough in their 20s and 30s about having kids. a social or biological function of having more time, perhaps?

theres also that thing where its too late to have the conversation about "do you want kids" after the third date, but its certainly too early to say "i want kids with **you**" before a few years have passed with ye living together and knowing each other very well indeed.

and thats probably best done after the mid twenties stage of college done, first few jobs, the real growing up stuff, which is a lot going on before you throw in a relationship (which we all learn how to do as individuals, no two alike and all that) that ~has to work out or youve stolen the other person's youth and happiness~

essentially, given modern life's requirement for two job families just to scrape together mortgage deposits by the time ye are 35, a point of view that still thinks of "men vs women" when they broach this topic seem so oddly simplistic as to be .... almost quaint.

lainey_d_123

Deleted User wrote: »

i think this is a very well-put description of the gap relevant to the "men who dont tell you til you're 30 are bastards" discussion

fellas, an awful lot of them compared to women ime, *are* ambivalent enough in their 20s and 30s about having kids. a social or biological function of having more time, perhaps?

theres also that thing where its too late to have the conversation about "do you want kids" after the third date, but its certainly too early to say "i want kids with you" before a few years have passed with ye living together and knowing each other very well indeed.

and thats probably best done after the mid twenties stage of college done, first few jobs, the real growing up stuff, which is a lot going on before you throw in a relationship (which we all learn how to do as individuals, no two alike and all that) that ~has to work out or youve stolen the other person's youth and happiness~

essentially, given modern life's requirement for two job families just to scrape together mortgage deposits by the time ye are 35, a point of view that still thinks of "men vs women" when they broach this topic seem so oddly simplistic as to be .... almost quaint.

Except literally NOBODY is saying that. But don't let that stop you inventing things.

None of this has anything to do with a fella of, say, 36 who doesn't want kids withholding that fact from the women he dates because he knows it'll cut down his options drastically. Who cares about robbing a woman of her last few fertile years and wasting time she could have spent looking for someone else, as long as he gets what he wants, right?

What is a woman in her early to mid thirties to do? She can't start trying for kids with a new partner right away - that would be insane. So they get to know each other, spend time together, everything is going brilliantly, then when she brings up kids he keep stalling and eventually admits he doesn't want them. So she either has to do without having kids or attempt to start the whole dating process again, now that it's even harder than before, she's even older, there are even fewer eligible single fellas on the market.

This certainly isn't the woman's fault.

lainey_d_123

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Except literally NOBODY is saying that. But don't let that stop you inventing things.

None of this has anything to do with a fella of, say, 36 who doesn't want kids withholding that fact from the women he dates because he knows it'll cut down his options drastically. Who cares about robbing a woman of her last few fertile years and wasting time she could have spent looking for someone else, as long as he gets what he wants, right?

What is a woman in her early to mid thirties to do? She can't start trying for kids with a new partner right away - that would be insane. So they get to know each other, spend time together, everything is going brilliantly, then when she brings up kids he keep stalling and eventually admits he doesn't want them. So she either has to do without having kids or attempt to start the whole dating process again, now that it's even harder than before, she's even older, there are even fewer eligible single fellas on the market.

This certainly isn't the woman's fault.

you keep insisting everyone has to talk about very specific cases which may or may not be your own personal experiences but heres the thing

we dont have to do that at all

ginandtonicsky

I'm 34, in a brand new relationship and fairly ambivalent. My best friend is the same age, getting married in 2 months and also ambivalent. I don't think it's that uncommon for women either. I met a fair amount of mothers who say "I didn't really think I wanted kids either, even after I got pregnant".

With the rhetoric that's directed at women for "leaving it too late", it feels almost careless to be approaching my mid 30s and in two minds about it all. In reality, I don't want to be a single mum or to have kids with the next man that comes along for the sake of having them, as the biological urge is not that strong. I can't imagine having kids with someone that I didn't love deeply, someone that i didn't feel supported by 100%.

To point out something very obvious, I feel like this thread needs to hear this: it's ok to want what you want or not want what you don't want, and you're not answerable to anyone else on these major life decisions. Not society, not men, not parents, not non-parents, nobody. If my indecisiveness now leads to no kids down the line, so be it. If my new relationship works out and I get pregnant next year, that's fine too.

Ultimately, neither decision affects anyone except me in the general scheme of things. And I was never going to be a "young mum" in my 20s, those years were always going to be about travel and adventure and career and self-discovery. I'll be damned if I'll be made to feel guilty about that!

ginandtonicsky

ginandtonicsky wrote: »

To point out something very obvious, I feel like this thread needs to hear this: it's ok to want what you want or not want what you don't want, and you're not answerable to anyone else on these major life decisions. Not society, not men, not parents, not non-parents, nobody.

you left out "not women"

lainey_d_123

ginandtonicsky wrote: »

I'm 34, in a brand new relationship and fairly ambivalent. My best friend is the same age, getting married in 2 months and also ambivalent. I don't think it's that uncommon for women either. I met a fair amount of mothers who say "I didn't really think I wanted kids either, even after I got pregnant".

With the rhetoric that's directed at women for "leaving it too late", it feels almost careless to be approaching my mid 30s and in two minds about it all. In reality, I don't want to be a single mum or to have kids with the next man that comes along for the sake of having them, as the biological urge is not that strong. I can't imagine having kids with someone that I didn't love deeply, someone that i didn't feel supported by 100%.

To point out something very obvious, I feel like this thread needs to hear this: it's ok to want what you want or not want what you don't want, and you're not answerable to anyone else on these major life decisions. Not society, not men, not parents, not non-parents, nobody. If my indecisiveness now leads to no kids down the line, so be it. If my new relationship works out and I get pregnant next year, that's fine too.

Ultimately, neither decision affects anyone except me in the general scheme of things. And I was never going to be a "young mum" in my 20s, those years were always going to be about travel and adventure and career and self-discovery. I'll be damned if I'll be made to feel guilty about that!

I know it was a throwaway comment, but would you actually have a child with someone you've been with under a year? This to me is a huge problem with approaching my mid thirties and being single - I simply don't have several years to spend with someone and establish whether we're compatible if I want biological kids. If you meet someone at 22, you can spend years getting to know them before kids or marriage ever cross your mind. If you meet someone at 34, you either bite the bullet and get married/have kids after a short time and hope it works out or wait it out and then risk not being able to have kids (if it works out) or discovering you're not that compatible and having to start over again in your late thirties. It feels like there just isn't enough time. It's very stressful and I find it impacts on my relationships and dating life.

That's very true..but that's WAY more relevant to the male in that situation too..

The possibility of some wagon keeping your children from you, or using them as weapons,..
No wonder you'd be reluctant..

ginandtonicsky

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I know it was a throwaway comment, but would you actually have a child with someone you've been with under a year? This to me is a huge problem with approaching my mid thirties and being single - I simply don't have several years to spend with someone and establish whether we're compatible if I want biological kids. If you meet someone at 22, you can spend years getting to know them before kids or marriage ever cross your mind. If you meet someone at 34, you either bite the bullet and get married/have kids after a short time and hope it works out or wait it out and then risk not being able to have kids (if it works out) or discovering you're not that compatible and having to start over again in your late thirties. It feels like there just isn't enough time. It's very stressful and I find it impacts on my relationships and dating life.

I think you're overthinking it all tbh. It's as stressful as you decide it will be.

Of course age is a much bigger factor for us, and you'll meet the men who assume every 30-anything woman is trying to 'trap' them into a life of marital misery. But equally, the shorter timeline to me translates to less tolerance for bs and quicker decision-making when it comes to dating and relationships.

I'm not shopping for a husband or a baby-daddy, I'm looking for a true partner, that rare chance to fall in love again. I don't want the husband or the family without that key ingredient. I'm not broody and single parenting doesn't appeal to me. Marriage isn't a pre-requisite to starting a family for me either.

If this guy turns out to be the right guy? Yeah, things could move fast. Who knows. I'm not attributing my worth to a man to my age and I'm not planning for or ruling out anything, because life tends to laugh in the face of those plans.

I think when you start thinking along the lines of "OMG I have FIVE YEARS to lock this stuff down!!!", you're putting out the wrong energy on the dating scene. You're leading with panic and urgency. That's counter-productive. No-one wants to fit into someone else's agenda. They want to fall in love and feel like they've met someone special.

lainey_d_123

ginandtonicsky wrote: »

I think you're overthinking it all tbh. It's as stressful as you decide it will be.

Of course age is a much bigger factor for us, and you'll meet the men who assume every 30-anything woman is trying to 'trap' them into a life of marital misery. But equally, the shorter timeline to me translates to less tolerance for bs and quicker decision-making when it comes to dating and relationships.

I'm not shopping for a husband or a baby-daddy, I'm looking for a true partner, that rare chance to fall in love again. I don't want the husband or the family without that key ingredient. I'm not broody and single parenting doesn't appeal to me. Marriage isn't a pre-requisite to starting a family for me either.

If this guy turns out to be the right guy? Yeah, things could move fast. Who knows. I'm not attributing my worth to a man to my age and I'm not planning for or ruling out anything, because life tends to laugh in the face of those plans.

I think when you start thinking along the lines of "OMG I have FIVE YEARS to lock this stuff down!!!", you're putting out the wrong energy on the dating scene. You're leading with panic and urgency. That's counter-productive. No-one wants to fit into someone else's agenda. They want to fall in love and feel like they've met someone special.

I do see what you mean, but I find it very, very hard to be able to decide whether someone is stringing me along or whether I'm expecting too much from them too early on. At 25, you can afford to just go with the flow and see what happens. At 35 (if you want kids), you can't, really.

I was in a relationship with someone I got along great with and had loads of fun with, and ultimately ended up getting badly burned when he admitted he didn't want anything 'serious' and never had. While it was fun, it took up a couple of years of prime dating time I could have used to find someone who DID want the same. How do you avoid that happening? I've had several men tell me I'm putting too much pressure on things, but it seems to me like the risk of 'going with the flow' is enormous, especially when there are so many fellas around who will happily take advantage of a nice, easy, fun relationship while having no intention to stick around for more than a year or so.

ginandtonicsky

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I was in a relationship with someone I got along great with and had loads of fun with, and ultimately ended up getting badly burned when he admitted he didn't want anything 'serious' and never had. While it was fun, it took up a couple of years of prime dating time I could have used to find someone who DID want the same. How do you avoid that happening?

By trusting yourself and trusting your judgement. You know a red flag when you see one. Let the past be the past. Judge every new guy you meet as an individual, watch his actions versus his words, don't stone him for the sins of lads you were burned by years ago.

By this age you've typically met every shyster in the book. I know I have. I deleted all the dating apps because of it. So many man-children with kid-in-a-candy-shop mindsets and rebounding divorcees. It bred this abundance mentality in me too. I honestly think they re-programme your brain to see the opposite sex as disposable commodities, and for me that's not the way of building attraction and developing a relationship on the right foundation. I simply can't swipe my way to the right partner, it's not how I'm wired.

Dating older men can help too. There's less bs. I'm seeing someone ten years older, and I've noticed there's no mind-games and a directness that is refreshing. It's ok to call whenever it takes my fancy and it's ok to ask frank questions. If asking, "do you want kids?" when you're a few dates in has a fella running for the hills, he's probably not someone you should be pinning all your hopes on.

Equally, asking him repeatedly and probing as to when he wants them and interrogating him like he's a criminal because you were sold a merry dance once is where it becomes self-sabotage. That comes across as a woman with an agenda and no time on her hands and it doesn't really matter who he is, it's all about what she wants. The same things from a fella and I'd be making a quick exit myself.

lainey_d_123

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

None of this has anything to do with a fella of, say, 36 who doesn't want kids withholding that fact from the women he dates because he knows it'll cut down his options drastically. Who cares about robbing a woman of her last few fertile years and wasting time she could have spent looking for someone else, as long as he gets what he wants, right?

Judging by the amount of messing women did in their 20s with me before I met my wife, I could imagine a scenario of a guy who was messed around a lot in his 20s, is cynical, and now is in demand with women, as most decent guys are already long coupled up, and is taking advantage.

Potential-Monke

On the opposite side of things, I'm a 36 year old and I've given up looking for a partner right now because I don't want kids. How can I tell if a woman in my age group doesn't want children? Do I bring it up on the first date (if I can get one)? From what i'm reading that's a big turn off, so do I continue the relationship until we're close enough to have this conversation? How long will that take? Will I then be blamed for stringing her along?

I've gone with the easier option, just not bother. I've also made solace with the situation that I'm possibly going to be single for the rest of my life. I'm ok with it. It's allowing me to do what I want to do without having to worry about 'Where are you', 'What are you up to', 'Who are you with', 'You can't talk to her' and other such jealously BS that i've dealt with in the past.

So why can't we all just be honest? You meet someone, ye decide to make a date, why is it taboo to say outright 'By the way, just so you know, I've no interest in having kids', or 'So you know, I do intend on having kids at some stage'. Up to the other person then to decide let's give it a go, or no, sorry, I do/n't want kids' and part ways there and then? Because too many people are petrified of being alone because of other people telling them that being alone is wrong, sad, depressing, etc. You can see it in this thread.

lainey_d_123

ginandtonicsky wrote: »

By trusting yourself and trusting your judgement. You know a red flag when you see one. Let the past be the past. Judge every new guy you meet as an individual, watch his actions versus his words, don't stone him for the sins of lads you were burned by years ago.

I don't, really, no. I date all different types of fellas and have similar issues, as do my friends. Was seeing someone earlier this year who seemed really into me, made an enormous effort to see me (he lived a bit of a distance away), super enthusiastic, and then as soon as we were 'officially' dating, it was as if he just gave up. Like literally stopped putting in any effort at all. There seem to be a lot of men like this around, who want a girlfriend but don't understand the concept of giving anything back and meeting someone's needs. As I ended up asking this fella, what am I getting out of this?

By this age you've typically met every shyster in the book. I know I have. I deleted all the dating apps because of it. So many man-children with kid-in-a-candy-shop mindsets and rebounding divorcees. It bred this abundance mentality in me too. I honestly think they re-programme your brain to see the opposite sex as disposable commodities, and for me that's not the way of building attraction and developing a relationship on the right foundation. I simply can't swipe my way to the right partner, it's not how I'm wired.

Not really, if you spent all your twenties in a serious relationship. I haven't dated that many men, which is why it's probably so much harder for me now. I just fell into a relationship in my early twenties, right on the back of another serious relationship. All the stuff I heard about commitment phobes and not texting back and womanising was totally alien to me. When I was 31 and starting dating again, I might as well have been 18 for all I knew about the dating scene. I totally agree about the swiping apps - it's just so hard to meet people any other way. I meet plenty of men my age through work and social activities who I think find me attractive and have great conversation with me. The problem? They're all already married.

Dating older men can help too. There's less bs. I'm seeing someone ten years older, and I've noticed there's no mind-games and a directness that is refreshing. It's ok to call whenever it takes my fancy and it's ok to ask frank questions. If asking, "do you want kids?" when you're a few dates in has a fella running for the hills, he's probably not someone you should be pinning all your hopes on.

Maaaybe, but I've encountered quite a few man children in their forties as well. I'm also wary of people who are long term single, because they come across as very selfish and unwilling to compromise.

Equally, asking him repeatedly and probing as to when he wants them and interrogating him like he's a criminal because you were sold a merry dance once is where it becomes self-sabotage. That comes across as a woman with an agenda and no time on her hands and it doesn't really matter who he is, it's all about what she wants. The same things from a fella and I'd be making a quick exit myself.

Makes sense. There's a fine line, and I can't seem to get it right. Too laid back and you get walked over like a doormat and strung along. Too pushy and they run a mile.

lainey_d_123

Potential-Monke wrote: »

On the opposite side of things, I'm a 36 year old and I've given up looking for a partner right now because I don't want kids. How can I tell if a woman in my age group doesn't want children? Do I bring it up on the first date (if I can get one)? From what i'm reading that's a big turn off, so do I continue the relationship until we're close enough to have this conversation? How long will that take? Will I then be blamed for stringing her along?

There are a lot of genuinely childfree women looking for childfree men. I don't know if you use apps but many of them have categories for that. I don't see the problem with bringing it up early on. It's pretty easy to bring it up. Imagine you're in a restaurant and someone's baby is wailing and they're getting all stressed and anxious trying to calm it down. You say 'Jaysus, that's stressful. So glad I'm not planning on having any kids myself!' If she looks horrified, you have your answer. If she enthusastically agrees, likewise. There's literally no point in not bringing it up early on. If it's a turn off for her, so what? Purposely not bringing it up for a while in case it means you don't get sex/a relationship is the definition of stringing someone along. It's not fair.

I've gone with the easier option, just not bother. I've also made solace with the situation that I'm possibly going to be single for the rest of my life. I'm ok with it. It's allowing me to do what I want to do without having to worry about 'Where are you', 'What are you up to', 'Who are you with', 'You can't talk to her' and other such jealously BS that i've dealt with in the past.

Grand if you really aren't arsed, but I don't think not wanting kids is a reason not to bother at all. There are loads of women on the dating scene who can't have kids (infertility) or who are too old for them or who just don't want them. And that kind of jealousy isn't normal either. Plenty of women around who aren't like that.

So why can't we all just be honest? You meet someone, ye decide to make a date, why is it taboo to say outright 'By the way, just so you know, I've no interest in having kids', or 'So you know, I do intend on having kids at some stage'. Up to the other person then to decide let's give it a go, or no, sorry, I do/n't want kids' and part ways there and then? Because too many people are petrified of being alone because of other people telling them that being alone is wrong, sad, depressing, etc. You can see it in this thread.

As someone on the autistic spectrum, I'd f**king love it if people were just honest. I can't be doing with bullsh1t and games at all. I'd be happy to know if a man wants kids or not so I don't waste my time dating someone who is never going to want the same things I do.

Heres why in a nutshell:

Obviously, he's good looking - but not by chance (he's not Ovie). Like, he could very easily be a 3/10, but he's put the time and effort into minding himself and brushing his teeth - clocking in at a solid Love Island 7, and Irish 9. His prettiness is offset by a broken nose and 'cracked forehead,' and like any good Irish man he has a complex about his height, ('I'm just under 5'11') which is reassuring in a man with quite so many abs.

The guy is a rugby player and trainee solicitor. She's destined to be alone with her cats. I bet she's about 20 stone herself.

https://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/ciara-oconnor-heartbreak-ahead-for-the-love-islanders-just-in-it-for-the-likes-38330956.html

lainey_d_123

Deleted User wrote: »

Heres why in a nutshell:




The guy is a rugby player and trainee solicitor. She's destined to be alone with her cats. I bet she's about 20 stone herself.

https://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/ciara-oconnor-heartbreak-ahead-for-the-love-islanders-just-in-it-for-the-likes-38330956.html

Right, because women are NEVER judged on their looks and weight. You NEVER hear men picking apart a woman for having a few wrinkles or being a few pounds overweight, especially if they're extremely accomplished in their field.

Oh, wait.

You do kind of sound quite bitter Lainey.. like, really, love island and that kind of vacuous sh1te is probably contributing to the whole situation too..
I hope you find someone..

Gimme A Pound

Deleted User wrote: »

Heres why in a nutshell:




The guy is a rugby player and trainee solicitor. She's destined to be alone with her cats. I bet she's about 20 stone herself.

https://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/ciara-oconnor-heartbreak-ahead-for-the-love-islanders-just-in-it-for-the-likes-38330956.html

What in the name of god are you on about?

Between calling a three-year-old girl a wagon, pretending an article was about something that it wasn't (in order to start having a go at women) and now this utter randomness... not a fan of the females are ya?

d8491prj5boyvg

ginandtonicsky wrote: »

I'm 34, in a brand new relationship and fairly ambivalent. My best friend is the same age, getting married in 2 months and also ambivalent. I don't think it's that uncommon for women either. I met a fair amount of mothers who say "I didn't really think I wanted kids either, even after I got pregnant".

With the rhetoric that's directed at women for "leaving it too late", it feels almost careless to be approaching my mid 30s and in two minds about it all. In reality, I don't want to be a single mum or to have kids with the next man that comes along for the sake of having them, as the biological urge is not that strong. I can't imagine having kids with someone that I didn't love deeply, someone that i didn't feel supported by 100%.

To point out something very obvious, I feel like this thread needs to hear this: it's ok to want what you want or not want what you don't want, and you're not answerable to anyone else on these major life decisions. Not society, not men, not parents, not non-parents, nobody. If my indecisiveness now leads to no kids down the line, so be it. If my new relationship works out and I get pregnant next year, that's fine too.

Ultimately, neither decision affects anyone except me in the general scheme of things. And I was never going to be a "young mum" in my 20s, those years were always going to be about travel and adventure and career and self-discovery. I'll be damned if I'll be made to feel guilty about that!

Why is everybody nowadays obsessed with what other people think. Nobody cares about what you do. This straw man is constructed every time. Nobody is placing value judgements on a decision either way.

lainey_d_123

Sebastian Low Zenith wrote: »

Why is everybody nowadays obsessed with what other people think. Nobody cares about what you do. This straw man is constructed every time. Nobody is placing value judgements on a decision either way.

Absolute rubbish. People are forever commenting on other people's life choices. I get it all the time. Am I not worried I'll not be able to have kids? Should I not be finding myself a partner before I'm any older and losing my looks? Am I not lonely? Is it not very shallow to prioritise weekends away and holidays over the joy of kids? Constant patronising guff from smug marrieds, some of whom are probably overcompensating for being miserable in their own marriages.

I think the point ginandtonicsky is making is that we should try not to let it affect us.

lainey_d_123

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Right, because women are NEVER judged on their looks and weight. You NEVER hear men picking apart a woman for having a few wrinkles or being a few pounds overweight, especially if they're extremely accomplished in their field.

Oh, wait.

No they don't? Most men don't do this as a rule. It's more commonly women commenting on other women. Who are these men you are talking about?

Sunny Disposition

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No they don't? Most men don't do this as a rule. It's more commonly women commenting on other women. Who are these men you are talking about?

To be fair writing an article criticizing anyone’s appearance is not right. Wouldn’t be tolerated about a woman and shouldn’t be about a man.

Gimme A Pound

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

What in the name of god are you on about?

Between calling a three-year-old girl a wagon, pretending an article was about something that it wasn't (in order to start having a go at women) and now this utter randomness... not a fan of the females are ya?

The 3 year old girl thing was joking and nothing to do with her being a girl.

As for your other comment the article was demeaning in the extreme to that guy - unfortunately the norm in the media these days. Some women - particularly Irish women - talk to guys like this way more than the other way round. It's somehow makes them feel superior or something. Personally I always just mentally labelled them bitches and ignored them, and talked to women with actual personalities instead. Every group has at least one of these in my experience.

I find it amusing that some women seem to think that when Theresa May or Angela Merkel are talking on TV men are sitting there commenting on their looks instead of listening to what they are saying. Maybe a certain knuckle dragging type is, I don't know. Certainly isn't a conversation I ever remembered having in any event. Theresa's dance skills were commented on alright but so would Varadkars' socks or Michael Healy Raes cap.

Edit: or everything about Mick Wallace's wardrobe.

Also if I'm an average single guy struggling with women, why would I pick a woman clearly in the top 5% of attractiveness and call her a potential 3/10? Smacks of bitterness to me.

People should be 100% sure before they have kids. Having kids involves putiing your needs last for many years. If you're not prepared for that then don't have them.

lainey_d_123

Deleted User wrote: »

No they don't? Most men don't do this as a rule. It's more commonly women commenting on other women. Who are these men you are talking about?

You don't hear them do it because you're not a woman!

ToddyDoody

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Absolute rubbish. People are forever commenting on other people's life choices. I get it all the time. Am I not worried I'll not be able to have kids? Should I not be finding myself a partner before I'm any older and losing my looks? Am I not lonely? Is it not very shallow to prioritise weekends away and holidays over the joy of kids? Constant patronising guff from smug marrieds, some of whom are probably overcompensating for being miserable in their own marriages.

People are idiots, in fairness

lainey_d_123

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

You don't hear them do it because you're not a woman!

Do you mean I somehow block it out or do they only say it in the company of women? I don't follow?

lainey_d_123

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Absolute rubbish. People are forever commenting on other people's life choices. I get it all the time. Am I not worried I'll not be able to have kids? Should I not be finding myself a partner before I'm any older and losing my looks? Am I not lonely? Is it not very shallow to prioritise weekends away and holidays over the joy of kids? Constant patronising guff from smug marrieds, some of whom are probably overcompensating for being miserable in their own marriages.

have a little read back of the complaint you're making against "people" there and then your own spiteful projection in the same paragraph.

the world isnt going to suit everyone, a person has to put in a lot of work to get what they want in any sphere.

if it doesnt *ever* work out for a person, sure its possible that the world is the problem

the odds, as i understand them, are about 8 billion to one but theres always a chance i spose.

lainey_d_123

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Absolute rubbish. People are forever commenting on other people's life choices. I get it all the time. Am I not worried I'll not be able to have kids? Should I not be finding myself a partner before I'm any older and losing my looks? Am I not lonely? Is it not very shallow to prioritise weekends away and holidays over the joy of kids? Constant patronising guff from smug marrieds, some of whom are probably overcompensating for being miserable in their own marriages.

I think the point ginandtonicsky is making is that we should try not to let it affect us.

People really don't care that much about other people. Some make judgy comments to make themselves feel better. Pro tip: don't ever go to the Netherlands - they are the bluntest people I've ever met.

d8491prj5boyvg

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Absolute rubbish. People are forever commenting on other people's life choices. I get it all the time. Am I not worried I'll not be able to have kids? Should I not be finding myself a partner before I'm any older and losing my looks? Am I not lonely? Is it not very shallow to prioritise weekends away and holidays over the joy of kids? Constant patronising guff from smug marrieds, some of whom are probably overcompensating for being miserable in their own marriages.

I think the point ginandtonicsky is making is that we should try not to let it affect us.

:rolleyes:. I'm sorry I tried.

kunst nugget

Sebastian Low Zenith wrote: »

:rolleyes:. I'm sorry I tried.

I wouldn't take that reply to heart. In the years I've been on boards, I honestly don't think I've dealt with any other poster as bitter as Lainey.

But like, in fairness, the current situation regarding dating in the year 2019 probably engenders a certain level of bitterness..

lainey_d_123

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you mean I somehow block it out or do they only say it in the company of women? I don't follow?

What a stupid thing to say. It's like a white person telling a black person there's no racism in Ireland because he's never heard any. You don't tend to hear comments aimed at woman if you're.....not a woman.

Yeah, mindblowing, huh?

lainey_d_123

Deleted User wrote: »

have a little read back of the complaint you're making against "people" there and then your own spiteful projection in the same paragraph.

the world isnt going to suit everyone, a person has to put in a lot of work to get what they want in any sphere.

if it doesnt *ever* work out for a person, sure its possible that the world is the problem

the odds, as i understand them, are about 8 billion to one but theres always a chance i spose.

Not very good at logic, are we? I'm saying that people who are so determined to make others feel bad about themselves and judge their life choices must be doing so from a place of deep unhappiness, because people who are genuinely happy in themselves don't tend to try to crush others. If I'm minding my own business living my life and someone feels the need to interrogate me on things that have nothing to do with them, then yes, I'll assume they're overcompensating.

But sure, carry on with your petty little insults.

lainey_d_123

kunst nugget wrote: »

I wouldn't take that reply to heart. In the years I've been on boards, I honestly don't think I've dealt with any other poster as bitter as Lainey.

Yeah sorry for simply stating what ginandtonicsky was also saying - that people DO judge single women, especially those over a certain age. Endless nosy, patronising questions about why you're single.

You don't seem to like women speaking up about their reality, do you?

cannotlogin

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

kunst nugget wrote: »

I wouldn't take that reply to heart. In the years I've been on boards, I honestly don't think I've dealt with any other poster as bitter as Lainey.

Yeah sorry for simply stating what ginandtonicsky was also saying - that people DO judge single women, especially those over a certain age. Endless nosy, patronising questions about why you're single.

You don't seem to like women speaking up about their reality, do you?

Thread has kind of wandered well off topic but anyhow, I think everyone is judged and everyone makes assumptions about people, it's human nature. Your own posts contain a lot of judgment too.

You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think people don't judge men too. How good-looking they are? How successful they are? They fact the terms "dad bod" and "beer belly" exist confirms same. How often is a single man's sexuality questioned if he hasn't had a girlfriend in sometime? Still happens a lot, particularly in rural areas. It's not just women.

In reality, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks of you, if you are happy and secure in yourself, you won't even care.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Yeah sorry for simply stating what ginandtonicsky was also saying - that people DO judge single women, especially those over a certain age. Endless nosy, patronising questions about why you're single.

You don't seem to like women speaking up about their reality, do you?

Doesn't seem to have a problem with any other woman in the thread. Do you find people often exhibit such laser-precision misogyny towards you?

Cheers for crying wolf though, not like sh1t like that undermines actual sexism.

Hannibal_Smith

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Yeah sorry for simply stating what ginandtonicsky was also saying - that people DO judge single women, especially those over a certain age. Endless nosy, patronising questions about why you're single.

You don't seem to like women speaking up about their reality, do you?

Most of my friends married in their mid to late thirties. One of them, in her 40s, had a baby recently. I don't recall anyone asking them why they're single.

I think they did get asked whether they were seeing anyone. But you get that at every life stage, you meet someone and youre asked if there are any wedding bells. You get engaged you're asked when the date is. When you get married you're asked 'any news' and if you're lucky enough to sprout some offspring the next one is usually whether there's a brother sister on the way.

I don't think any of it is ill intentioned or judging, just pure nosey. Single women are not on their own when it comes to this.

I doubt if anyone is judging you for being single, maybe the questions hit a nerve and it seems that way. Anyone who is judging has little else to be worrying them.

lainey_d_123

cannotlogin wrote: »

Thread has kind of wandered well off topic but anyhow, I think everyone is judged and everyone makes assumptions about people, it's human nature. Your own posts contain a lot of judgment too.

You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think people don't judge men too. How good-looking they are? How successful they are? They fact the terms "dad bod" and "beer belly" exist confirms same. How often is a single man's sexuality questioned if he hasn't had a girlfriend in sometime? Still happens a lot, particularly in rural areas. It's not just women.

In reality, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks of you, if you are happy and secure in yourself, you won't even care.

Sure, of course men get comments, but not anywhere near to the same extent women do, according to my male friends who are single. There might be some talk of whether they're gay, but generally a single man with a good job and hobbies is assumed to be an eligible bachelor rather than a sad sack worthy of pity. I don't have any problem with being single in itself, other than worrying about my timeline for kids. It's the way other people treat you.

And no, it's not just me. I have a long term single friend of 43 who was saying she never gets invited to dinner parties or group weekends away because people just don't want a single woman when it's all couples. She's a lovely, positive person who loves her life, but even she gets fed up with people's weird, judgemental views on women who are single after a certain age. She feels like they're (other women in particular) almost threatened by her or something.

The fact is, it's 2019 and as far as the general population is concerned, a woman's value is still based around whether she's married and/or has kids. Every time someone at work gets engaged, there's a flurry of congratulations and cards and presents that goes on for days, endless chat about wedding venues and dresses. A colleague got her PhD recently, sent an email around about it and got a couple of lacklustre 'oh, that's brilliant' comments in reply. No collection for a present, no talk of cards, for something that is a real achievement and took years of hard work. Yet someone puts a diamond on your hand and everyone is over the moon.

It's very sad IMO.

lainey_d_123

Talia Late Crosswalk wrote: »

Doesn't seem to have a problem with any other woman in the thread. Do you find people often exhibit such laser-precision misogyny towards you?

Cheers for crying wolf though, not like sh1t like that undermines actual sexism.

Nice minimising and gaslighting. If you think there's a limited range of what can be considered 'real sexism', I'm not wasting my time on you. I posted about my reality as a woman and had a man literally mansplaining that that wasn't right because he, as a man, hadn't seen it. If a man trying to tell a woman what her own experiences have been is not sexist to you, God help you.

lainey_d_123

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Most of my friends married in their mid to late thirties. One of them, in her 40s, had a baby recently. I don't recall anyone asking them why they're single.

Well, they're not.

I think they did get asked whether they were seeing anyone. But you get that at every life stage, you meet someone and youre asked if there are any wedding bells. You get engaged you're asked when the date is. When you get married you're asked 'any news' and if you're lucky enough to sprout some offspring the next one is usually whether there's a brother sister on the way.

I don't think any of it is ill intentioned or judging, just pure nosey. Single women are not on their own when it comes to this.

I doubt if anyone is judging you for being single, maybe the questions hit a nerve and it seems that way. Anyone who is judging has little else to be worrying them.

Yes, sometimes it's just idle small talk, but there is very often an edge to these kinds of questions. And sometimes people actually come out and ask me incredibly intrusive things like 'are you not worried you'll be too old for kids?' Way more often that you seem to think.

kikilarue2

I've been following this thread with interest and it's one of the reasons I signed back up.

I had two relationships in college, and none since. I'm 31 so that's 10 years now. I've had a lot of 'almosts' where I've gone on a few dates but it didn't work out, several friends-with-benefits situations and the odd ONS. I also have a lot of very meaningful platonic male friendships.

I do wonder what's wrong with me sometimes - and is it me or have I just had bad luck? I have issues with my mental health and self-esteem, but I know a lot of people with similar issues who have been able to find and maintain stable relationships.

I'm a valued friend, I'm considered fun - was thought of as a bit of a mad bitch in earlier years and that rep seems to follow me around even though it's no longer really true and hasn't been for quite a while.

Online dating is a nightmare and because I don't drink and I'm in my 30s now, I'm not on nights out that often.

I'd be interested to hear any genuine advice people have for meeting someone nice. I already have a number of hobbies and I'm outgoing.

AryaStark

Me and my ex partner tried for kids for years and were never able... I am now single and have been trying to have a baby by myself! Am 40 still in love with my ex who I split with nearly 10 years ago and have no interest in trying to find a suitable partner to have a baby with. I have had fertility tests and had to have surgery early this year and am now hopefully fertile! Have to have some more tests and will then be trying a round of ivf...
I will only be able to try one round and if it fails then I have to accept that it is not to be... I am almost scared to try as if it fails it will be so terrible. I had a few miscarriages when I was younger and am always wondering how them babies would have turned out.

One thing I hate is how people will say did you never want kids or assume that because you dont have them you didnt want them. I never ask people if they want kids or are trying.. Its so heart breaking when it doesnt work.