My €100m BEAM scheme

High bike

tanko wrote: »

If you calved no Suckers, sent no cattle for slaughter or sold no cattle in the mart that went for slaughter within 30 days then you're not eligible.

When i applied on Agfood it showed the number of cows calved here last year but it didn't show anything about the four cows i sold in the mart and were killed in the following week. Will be interesting to see if they're eligible.

they are eligible if killed within 30 days

amacca

kollegeknight wrote: »

amacca wrote: »

Yes but I asked previously if I could find out from agfood if the animals I sold in the mart had gone for slaughter within the 30 days.... it appears I cannot so I can't know what payment I would stand to get from the scheme ...or am I incorrect on this?

If the info is there then I can see what I stand to get and decide if it's worthwhile or not ....if the info isn't readily available then I have to get an advisor/consultant to find out ....is that correct?

Log into agfood, click on the new tab on the left hand side called exceptional aid measures. - new application and there is your info.

Thank you, that's mostly what I wanted to know. I'll check that now.

amacca

Hmmm...it says Im not currently eligible rather than giving me any detail on what happened the individual animals ...which normally wouldn't be of interest I suppose but is of interest now.

Thing is I have a hard time believing that ...out of approx 30 animals surely one or two tustve been presented for slaughter within the 30 days?

One or two were 600kg or above and I'm fairly sure they were bought by factory buyers..

there should be at least one or two within the 30 days or its unlikely there aren't lets say (but I suppose its possible)


So you really can't get any details about what happened to the animals you sold through the mart you just have to take agfoods word for it that you are not eligible

High bike

amacca wrote: »

Hmmm...it says Im not currently eligible rather than giving me any detail on what happened the individual animals ...which normally wouldn't be of interest I suppose but is of interest now.

Thing is I have a hard time believing that ...out of approx 30 animals surely one or two tustve been presented for slaughter within the 30 days?

One or two were 600kg or above and I'm fairly sure they were bought by factory buyers..

there should be at least one or two within the 30 days or its unlikely there aren't lets say (but I suppose its possible)


So you really can't get any details about what happened to the animals you sold through the mart you just have to take agfoods word for it that you are not eligible

see if the Mart can tell u who bought them that should give u a good idea

tanko

amacca wrote: »

Yes but I asked previously if I could find out from agfood if the animals I sold in the mart had gone for slaughter within the 30 days.... it appears I cannot so I can't know what payment I would stand to get from the scheme ...or am I incorrect on this?

If the info is there then I can see what I stand to get and decide if it's worthwhile or not ....if the info isn't readily available then I have to get an advisor/consultant to find out ....is that correct?

You could try emailing beam@agriculture.gov.ie quoting your herdnumber. They might help you out.

Lady Haywire

High bike wrote: »

see if the Mart can tell u who bought them that should give u a good idea

If you have the full tag number to hand the mart could tell you if/when they were slaughtered. Years ago I had to do up a herd book for a finishing fella near the end of the year & the tag entry section shows the date of slaughter & factory number too.
Not saying they will do it, but they can :pac:

amacca

Cheers, think ill try both for the hell/curiosity of it when I get the time with one or two likely candidates from mart dockets.

Scheme probably not really worth my while with such potentially low numbers however.

sonnybill

tanko wrote: »

The consultant who does my Glas and discussion group says he can look all that up for me.

Your number of cows calved and animals killed or sold and killed within 30 days comes up automatically on the system when you do a beam application

Good luck arguing reference no.’s with DAFM, waste of time imo

epfff

amacca wrote: »

Cheers, think ill try both for the hell/curiosity of it when I get the time with one or two likely candidates from mart dockets.

Scheme probably not really worth my while with such potentially low numbers however.

If you go to agfood movements out and click on tag no and you will see next move .
Why would you think they were killed within 30 days?

If they aa or he id be very suprised they were as they wouldn't qualify for bonus.
Cows or overage might be different story.

amacca

Some were aax and hex I'd be surprised myself if they were killed as they wete a long way off but I sold a couple of smashing lim x montbeliarde through mart that I thought weren't far off ...

Hard Knocks

Do you get the money now or after the reference period?

Sugarbowl

It will be paid in Q4 2019

Anto_Meath

Sugarbowl wrote: »

It will be paid in Q4 2019

That will drive up the price of weanlings when the boys get the cheque in the post.

Base price

Anto_Meath wrote: »

That will drive up the price of weanlings when the boys get the cheque in the post.

TBH I doubt it. IMO most of the monies will be used to pay off/settle merchant feed bills.

High bike

tanko wrote: »

Dairy cow 85kgs
Suckler cow 65kgs
Cattle > 2yrs 65kgs
Cattle 1-2 yrs 57kgs
Cattle 0-1 yrs 24kgs

is a stock bull covered by the 65kgs for cattle over 2 yrs?

Bass Reeves

amacca wrote: »

Hmmm...it says Im not currently eligible rather than giving me any detail on what happened the individual animals ...which normally wouldn't be of interest I suppose but is of interest now.

Thing is I have a hard time believing that ...out of approx 30 animals surely one or two tustve been presented for slaughter within the 30 days?

One or two were 600kg or above and I'm fairly sure they were bought by factory buyers..

there should be at least one or two within the 30 days or its unlikely there aren't lets say (but I suppose its possible)


So you really can't get any details about what happened to the animals you sold through the mart you just have to take agfoods word for it that you are not eligible

To make it worth your while applying you would want 8+ being slaughtered within the 30 days. I finish and have only 4 cattle in that period even though I slaughter nearly 60/year. I would get 400 euro.

However I would have to reduce my nitrates by 5% from the ref period 1/7/20 to 30/6/21 compared to 1/7/18 to 30/6/19. I have two issues first in the reference period I was slaughtering cattle as fast as possible because of the drought. The second is I will have to reduce nitrates across the whole herd.

Even if ref periods were comparable and I had to reduce by 5% about 3 cattle I would lose 600 euro in profit. However because I was slaughtering earlier it might be nearer a 5-6 animal equivilent. I spend more time watching stocking levels than it was worth

tractorporn

High bike wrote: »

is a stock bull covered by the 65kgs for cattle over 2 yrs?

Bull is 65kg as well

High bike

tractorporn wrote: »

Bull is 65kg as well

thought that thanks

memorystick

You only have to reduce numbers for one year. That's what my teagasc man told me.

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

To make it worth your while applying you would want 8+ being slaughtered within the 30 days. I finish and have only 4 cattle in that period even though I slaughter nearly 60/year. I would get 400 euro.

However I would have to reduce my nitrates by 5% from the ref period 1/7/20 to 30/6/21 compared to 1/7/18 to 30/6/19. I have two issues first in the reference period I was slaughtering cattle as fast as possible because of the drought. The second is I will have to reduce nitrates across the whole herd.

Even if ref periods were comparable and I had to reduce by 5% about 3 cattle I would lose 600 euro in profit. However because I was slaughtering earlier it might be nearer a 5-6 animal equivilent. I spend more time watching stocking levels than it was worth

It's scandalous that , after IFA getting €50m from Europe, some desk driver fecks it up like that for farmers.

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

It's scandalous that , after IFA getting €50m from Europe, some desk driver fecks it up like that for farmers.

TBH it's was an EU stipulation with similar to what happened with the milk support scheme. However taking the drought year into account for farmers drawing sub 1K it not really worth doing. They should have dot a derogation to the 5% rule or people below nitrates of 150 could have being excluded. On the other hand you could draw down the money and ignire the 5% and if it happens it happens

eddiek

Can somebody please explain how to calculate the nitrate limit for the 5% without going on agfood.like if a >2yr is 65kg and sold at jan 19 is it half 65kg for reference year.thanks

High bike

eddiek wrote: »

Can somebody please explain how to calculate the nitrate limit for the 5% without going on agfood.like if a >2yr is 65kg and sold at jan 19 is it half 65kg for reference year.thanks

its calculated on a daily basis,go back to one of Wranglers posts on this thread and click the link to get the break down of it

kollegeknight

eddiek wrote: »

Can somebody please explain how to calculate the nitrate limit for the 5% without going on agfood.like if a >2yr is 65kg and sold at jan 19 is it half 65kg for reference year.thanks

Page three- I presume the info is accurate.

https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/ruralenvironment/environment/nitrates/InfoLeafletNitrates220915.pdf

High bike

kollegeknight wrote: »

Page three- I presume the info is accurate.

https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/ruralenvironment/environment/nitrates/InfoLeafletNitrates220915.pdf

thats the one

Sugarbowl

Does that mean getting your figure down for the last few days of the reference period will not work? Like say you sold a bunch of heifers before the end of June 2021? You would be below the reference figure on 30th of June but may not have been up to that point?

epfff

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Does that mean getting your figure down for the last few days of the reference period will not work? Like say you sold a bunch of heifers before the end of June 2021? You would be below the reference figure on 30th of June but may not have been up to that point?

My reading is its going to be very difficult to run tight to the 5% you will have to error on the side of caution.

It will be possible to make app or spreadsheet that will calculate nitrates for you each day but any blip in sales/movement in your last days could mess everything up.

Dozer1

tried working this out and its painful....think its the first scheme in awhile I'll give a skip to.

High bike

Dozer1 wrote: »

tried working this out and its painful....think its the first scheme in awhile I'll give a skip to.

same as that you need to have a crystal ball if your a suckler farmer

Sugarbowl

Is there any sense in applying and drawing down the money. Then by 2021 if you don't reach the target take the penalty? Theres nothing else to lose really? And the penalty is staggered, so if you reach 3% reduction and not the 5%, you don't have to give back all the money.

Bellview

High bike wrote: »

same as that you need to have a crystal ball if your a suckler farmer

a lot of suckler will give this a skip i reckon as just not worth the hassle

Bellview

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Is there any sense in applying and drawing down the money. Then by 2021 if you don't reach the target take the penalty? Theres nothing else to lose really? And the penalty is staggered, so if you reach 3% reduction and not the 5%, you don't have to give back all the money.

i agree but my cynical mind is that this scheme could be used as a 'quota' for any future schemes... saving that i don't know anyone that is really planning on growing suckler numbers in the near term

L1985

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Is there any sense in applying and drawing down the money. Then by 2021 if you don't reach the target take the penalty? Theres nothing else to lose really? And the penalty is staggered, so if you reach 3% reduction and not the 5%, you don't have to give back all the money.

Pretty much what I’m doing-I can always look at it as an interest free loan lol. I’ve applied anyway and I’ll decide later on if I stay in it. That’s what I did with the genomics scheme and I did end up pulling out so we will see. V hard to predict what ill be at in 2021!

jfh

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Is there any sense in applying and drawing down the money. Then by 2021 if you don't reach the target take the penalty? Theres nothing else to lose really? And the penalty is staggered, so if you reach 3% reduction and not the 5%, you don't have to give back all the money.

That's exactly how I'm thinking. Intend to cut back a few sucklers anyway so will suit

red bull

memorystick wrote: »

You only have to reduce numbers for one year. That's what my teagasc man told me.

If thats a fact it may be easier to make mind up whether to apply or not

Sheep breeder

Lady Haywire wrote: »

If you have the full tag number to hand the mart could tell you if/when they were slaughtered. Years ago I had to do up a herd book for a finishing fella near the end of the year & the tag entry section shows the date of slaughter & factory number too.
Not saying they will do it, but they can :pac:

Mart can’t do that now with gdpr and wouldn’t have access to that info.

Base price

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Mart can’t do that now with gdpr and wouldn’t have access to that info.

Log onto your Agfood account. Go to AIM and click on View Herd Profile, scroll down to the very end of the screen and you will see a box "View Animal Details". Manually input the tag number of the animal that you want to check, click "view animal details" beside it. It will open another window which gives basic information about the animal (If you scroll down further you will see movements, progeny and compliance cert information). If you look in the middle on the left hand side of the screen you will see a box called Exit Date with a date in it and beside it another box called Status. The Exit Date is the date that the animal was removed from DAFM system and the Status box will say Dead or Exported depending on the status. When you have finished checking one animal hit return on the bottom left hand side and check the next one.

I hope the above makes sense.
Edit to say that the animal doesn't have to be still in your herd. If there is nothing in the Exit Date and Status box than the animal is still alive within the State.

amacca

Base price wrote: »

Log onto your Agfood account. Go to AIM and click on View Herd Profile, scroll down to the very end of the screen and you will see a box "View Animal Details". Manually input the tag number of the animal that you want to check, click "view animal details" beside it. It will open another window which gives basic information about the animal (If you scroll down further you will see movements, progeny and compliance cert information). If you look in the middle on the left hand side of the screen you will see a box called Exit Date with a date in it and beside it another box called Status. The Exit Date is the date that the animal was removed from DAFM system and the Status box will say Dead or Exported depending on the status. When you have finished checking one animal hit return on the bottom left hand side and check the next one.

I hope the above makes sense.
Edit to say that the animal doesn't have to be still in your herd. If there is nothing in the Exit Date and Status box than the animal is still alive within the State.

Thank you. Thats what I was wondering if you could do. thats going to be very informative. Interesting to know what animals were bought for etc

Sugarbowl

Base price wrote: »

Log onto your Agfood account. Go to AIM and click on View Herd Profile, scroll down to the very end of the screen and you will see a box "View Animal Details". Manually input the tag number of the animal that you want to check, click "view animal details" beside it. It will open another window which gives basic information about the animal (If you scroll down further you will see movements, progeny and compliance cert information). If you look in the middle on the left hand side of the screen you will see a box called Exit Date with a date in it and beside it another box called Status. The Exit Date is the date that the animal was removed from DAFM system and the Status box will say Dead or Exported depending on the status. When you have finished checking one animal hit return on the bottom left hand side and check the next one.

I hope the above makes sense.
Edit to say that the animal doesn't have to be still in your herd. If there is nothing in the Exit Date and Status box than the animal is still alive within the State.

Thanks for sharing the above.... I got to that animal detail page but unfortunately I can't see any exit date box on my page.
Edit: I found it for an animal that died as a calf to the knackery but not for animals I sold at mart which I know are now dead.

Base price

I don't buy or sell through the mart but I reckon that if there is no information in the Exit and Status box then the animals are still alive.

Sugarbowl

Base price wrote: »

I don't buy or sell through the mart but I reckon that if there is no information in the Exit and Status box then the animals are still alive.

Not arguing with you at all... But I can see from icbf profile when bullocks etc were killed as I still have their dams. But no exit date showed up for me. Maybe it's just an isolated case. Thanks for the above info steps anyway.

tanko

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Not arguing with you at all... But I can see from icbf profile when bullocks etc were killed as I still have their dams. But no exit date showed up for me. Maybe it's just an isolated case. Thanks for the above info steps anyway.

On ICBF no exit date is shown for animals which are exported to Italy, Turkey or go up the north etc i think.

memorystick

I can't see how to apply for it online.

Lady Haywire

memorystick wrote: »

I can't see how to apply for it online.

Genghis Cant

For better or worse I applied just now.

Straightforward process. The application had in it the number of animals in my herd that qualified, after me going through the blue book and adding them up! At least we both got the same number 😀

Tick a couple of boxes and Bob's your uncle.

RobinBanks

Does anyone know if its possible to change the reference year? in 2018 i was down a significant number on what i am now. 2018 was a bad year and i fell below what i normally keep but got back up over the last few years. My reading of this is i will have to reduce numbers significantly to qualify for payment if 2018 is the reference year.

Base price

RobinBanks wrote: »

Does anyone know if its possible to change the reference year? in 2018 i was down a significant number on what i am now. 2018 was a bad year and i fell below what i normally keep but got back up over the last few years. My reading of this is i will have to reduce numbers significantly to qualify for payment if 2018 is the reference year.

Unless you had a good reason for reduced numbers like TB I doubt you can change the reference year.

Hurling Hereford

RobinBanks wrote: »

Does anyone know if its possible to change the reference year? in 2018 i was down a significant number on what i am now. 2018 was a bad year and i fell below what i normally keep but got back up over the last few years. My reading of this is i will have to reduce numbers significantly to qualify for payment if 2018 is the reference year.

Appeal this on Force Majeure Grounds to beam@agriculture.gov.ie

Hurling Hereford

memorystick wrote: »

I can't see how to apply for it online.

See Terms & Cons of the BEAM scheme, read it to make sure ya know what ya are signing up for. Instructions on how to apply, step by step are on Page 14 onwards.

Hurling Hereford

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Is there any sense in applying and drawing down the money. Then by 2021 if you don't reach the target take the penalty? Theres nothing else to lose really? And the penalty is staggered, so if you reach 3% reduction and not the 5%, you don't have to give back all the money.

P.S. A reduction of less than 4% shall incur a 100% penalty