Gangland Shootings Cont'd [Mod Note in Post #1 updated 27/01/20

Nift

2ndcoming wrote: »

This idiotic solution does not work. If anything a long stretch in prison would be less of a deterrent than the current most likely outcome of this lifestyle: violent, early death.

Yet despite that there is still a conveyor belt of willing apprentices to take the places of the 200+ that have been killed in Ireland's drug trade in the past 10 years, riddle me that.

Have you ever stopped to think what would happen with America if they didn't have this "idiotic" solution?

Stop comparing Ireland with the USA. Population/culture/history alone means its in no way comparable, in absolutely anything.

Look at the situation in Dubai and the inaction around it. We are soft on crime. There is no two ways about it.

Crime is low-ish in Ireland, but gun crime is higher than UK and the broken window theory will some day be apt. Parts of Dublin slowly slipping into no go areas. We are making the same mistakes other countries had years ago. We can stop the rot now.

Your liberal ideals won't help anybody.

Invest in communties, yes, but introduce harsher penalties for people who regularly break it. Loads of people mentioned on this thread have committed terrible crimes even before their headline acts. Its not the USA there isn't an unlimited supply of dangerous people.

I'm surprised Fianna Fail or whoever don't make a play on Fine Gaels issues around this. We're on the third itereration of Larry Dunne's prediction. Was he wrong? No with each passing generation and the higher money involved, higher inequality and this softness seeping into the culture, its ripe to keep getting worse. And i think at this stage, middle class people are sick of say regular Garda checks on the North Strand going home from work, having paid all their taxes, obeyed their masters etc, (see it monthly) collecting revenue when the people are running amok all around there.

People shrug their shoulders at all this stuff. Ah it isn't bad.

seeing that people love mentioning the Americas, Watch Narcos - Mexico for the reality of what happened there. It wasn't always thus. Los Zetas were government agents gone rogue. they shrugged their shoulders and now they have lost control completely. And the prison system there is also a joke, soft as ****.

Naples the camorra mainly got really really big around cigarette smuggling, in cahoots with the sicilians and **** loads of corruption and inaction. It took a huge crack down on it all to make any dent. https://time.com/5435772/elena-ferrante-hbo-mafia-camorra/ I mean we are a million miles away from that. But in Naples the burning of an innocent woman in a car was all it took for government to start waking up. A priest was killed as well. Now we have kids mixed up in all this and getting gunned down. I mean live by the sword die by the sword. But for these lads there is always an anthony cambpell or the like. are you going to tell anthony's ma that prison isn't the right way? Victims of crime should come first. Look at some of the sentencing. Its all in black and white. In the next decade we will have some serious players released. They'd never see daylight in the US, and rightly so. If you take a life in cold blood, your life is forfeited in my book.

The idea that little old Ireland will always be safe should be done away with the idea that Ireland will always be poor, can't have succesful sports teams, the boom was pot luck etc. We have a real live issue bubbling underneath as anybody who travels throughout the city would see. We have triads, one of the Worlds supposed biggest drugs gang, the provos, the albanians now etc. Its all real.

Ireland is safe for now, but how long?

walshb

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Bold bit - yes, you are not dealing with people who care about consequences.

.

You cannot apply this to ALL

There would be quite a few who would stop and think hard...

They are humans. They can still be nasty, but at least with harsh repercussions, it will make them think a lot more about their behavior, and levels of behaviors.

jay1988

italodisco wrote: »

I'd rather live in my car with the daughter , join a community center gym and use their facilities for shower etc and cook on a camping gas stove , rather than let her grow up in amongst that utter sh!t .

The problem in those areas is that adults, not all but most, don't give a damn about there kids, where they are, what they're doing etc. Just drive through Darn of the dales or Fingerless or cuckoo lock in general at 10pm and you'll see kids well under 10 years old still out running around , up as late as midnight. Don't tell me that is nonsense as I see it regularly.

Thats funny cos I've lived in Coolock my whole life and I never see kids under the age of ten roaming the streets at that time of night, so I'm calling bull**** on that one.

Most of us around here are decent people, trying our best to raise our kids and put food on the table, while we have to live with this absolute hell going on around us, the only time we ever see the guards actually in one of the estates around here is AFTER something happens because they dont give a **** about people around here either.

LuckyLloyd

Executioner511 wrote: »

A lot of these slayed Gangsters are issued with GIM by the Gardai ,where do the cops get that information from and how do they know it's credible? Most of those who were whacked in the last few years had gotten one ,point being anyone who is issued with one of these should be jailed immediately as they are most likely a serious criminal and shouldn't be on the streets and a very intense investigation should be carried out into their activities and who they are working for, the threat to innocent people's lives is more likely now than ever as we've seen just the other night in Drogheda with the Taxi driver getting shot.

It had been suggested before that the system was open to abuse - i.e. those involved in crime might issue false threats to try and flush out informants or just for the craic of having the Gardai issue the notices.

Your broader suggestion runs afoul or constitutional protections afforded to every citizen, presumption of innocence and due process, etc. Locking lads up with no evidence of any specific crime might be justified in some of these cases but once you set that precedent where does it potentially end?

The State are in a tricky position with some of this stuff. If they become aware of a potential threat or hit order via the Gards they are kinda obliged to let the affected parties know. It seems like the most basic type of responsibility: we know a fellah with means to wants to kill you. I wonder if the warning system has prevented loss of life over the years? I bet it has. It might prompt lads to make right on stuff, pay a debt, apologise over something. Might not happen often but I imagine it would the odd time.

rondog

Fedcba321 wrote: »

In fairness RL has been a hitman for years and years and has managed to never get killed and Is mr big even trying to get him because there was never even any attempts on him

There has been many attempts to get RL,if you were to look out his mothers window all day you would see many suspicious looking cars driving up and down.

RL has been VERY lucky,hes not stupid and stays in different houses every few nights.Hes smart and would recognise a threat.Also a bit like the Don if he hears so much as a rumour of someone out to get him he usually acts first.

Considering the amount of people out to get him id be surprised if he lasts to the summer.

walshb

rondog wrote: »

There has been many attempts to get RL,if you were to look out his mothers window all day you would see many suspicious looking cars driving up and down.

RL has been VERY lucky,hes not stupid and stays in different houses every few nights.Hes smart and would recognise a threat.Also a bit like the Don if he hears so much as a rumour of someone out to get him he usually acts first.

Considering the amount of people out to get him id be surprised if he lasts to the summer.

And it's talk like this (not you, just the way it is) that is what is such a stain on society; that these people are free to roam around plotting murder and mayhem...

Dodge

Way too many rogue cop movie fans in here

As soon as somebody says they have a ‘simple’ solution, you can easily dismiss everything else they say

The idea that rounding up the current protagonists would lead to anything other than people popping up to take their place is absolute nonsense. As is the idea that this is a Dublin/Irish thing

For reference here’s a round up of some of the stories associated with Liverpool’s gangland in 2019. Some pretty wild stuff in there and none it really reported over here (or-nationally in the UK). https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/gangbusters-high-profile-drugs-gun-17396564.amp

It Dublin, and elsewhere, it’s a complex situation and some of the crap posted here in the last two days is downright dangerous. If you feel like you can help, get up off your arse and do it. Don’t just post ****e on the internet

marieholmfan

If we hanged about 1000 people it would sort out criminality for 20 years.

Tacitus Kilgore

marieholmfan wrote: »

If we hanged about 1000 people it would sort out criminality for 20 years.

Anyone in particular or just a random 1000?

marieholmfan

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Anyone in particular or just a random 1000?

Obviously not completely at random. That would achieve very little.

walshb

marieholmfan wrote: »

If we hanged about 1000 people it would sort out criminality for 20 years.

Swift justice. Once caught, tried and convicted of serious crime....

'Quick no waste' of appeals type executions.......

I'd consider voting it in.......

marieholmfan

Easton Calm Permit wrote: »

This is the real reason for the extreme crime, the profit margin in the cocaine markets. Legalized drugs and taxing the income would probably cut most of it out. They are all not going to become bank robbers or online hackers, the entry to other illegal high profit enterprises is beyond them.

either drugs have to be legalised or the death penalty has to be widely applied. The money is just too tempting otherwise.

It's one or the other. You can have legal drugs with no death penalty or you can retain prohibition of drugs and use the death penalty.

Tacitus Kilgore

marieholmfan wrote: »

Obviously not completely at random. That would achieve very little.

It would achieve about as much as hanging 1000 dealers.

marieholmfan wrote: »

either drugs have to be legalised or the death penalty has to be widely applied. The money is just too tempting otherwise.

It's one or the other. You can have legal drugs with no death penalty or you can retain prohibition of drugs and use the death penalty.

It's not really, it's the first option only. The second one doesn't work, as has been clearly demonstrated around the world for decades.

P.Walnuts

Dodge wrote: »

Way too many rogue cop movie fans in here

As soon as somebody says they have a ‘simple’ solution, you can easily dismiss everything else they say

The idea that rounding up the current protagonists would lead to anything other than people popping up to take their place is absolute nonsense. As is the idea that this is a Dublin/Irish thing

For reference here’s a round up of some of the stories associated with Liverpool’s gangland in 2019. Some pretty wild stuff in there and none it really reported over here (or-nationally in the UK). https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/gangbusters-high-profile-drugs-gun-17396564.amp

It Dublin, and elsewhere, it’s a complex situation and some of the crap posted here in the last two days is downright dangerous. If you feel like you can help, get up off your arse and do it. Don’t just post ****e on the internet

An actual well thought out, sensible post.

Followed by morons calling for mass executions.

One step forward, two steps back on this thread.

ohnonotgmail

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

It would achieve about as much as hanging 1000 dealers.



It's not really, it's the first option only. The second one doesn't work, as has been clearly demonstrated around the world for decades.

whatever about it not working, and it really doesn't, we couldn't reintroduce the death penalty even if we wanted to.

marieholmfan

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

It would achieve about as much as hanging 1000 dealers.



It's not really, it's the first option only. The second one doesn't work, as has been clearly demonstrated around the world for decades.

It worked in China and it works in Singapore and Malaysia.

Irish society needs to make a choice between prohibition of cocaine and the abolition of capital punishment.

The difficulty with successful prohibition is that it requires widespread use of the death penalty.

The difficulty with the abolition of prohibition is that one must also regulate and legalise the recreational use of cocaine.

I would prefer that the death penalty be widely used.

marieholmfan

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

whatever about it not working, and it really doesn't, we couldn't reintroduce the death penalty even if we wanted to.

We certainly could at worst we'd have to pay a fine or have voting rights temporarily suspended in the european council.

Tacitus Kilgore

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

whatever about it not working, and it really doesn't, we couldn't reintroduce the death penalty even if we wanted to.

Aye, I know, and we should never look to going backwards from that.

I just wanted to give the poster's fantasy a small bit of discussion rather than straight up ridicule.

walshb

This legalizing drugs or bringing in the death penalty is nonsense,

Just tighten up and strengthen and enforce sentencing....

Remove the people from society. Yu don't need to execute them or legalize drugs to do this...

Remove them either permanently or for far longer times....

There are people service 3-4-5-6-7 years for armed robberies, for example....

This should be an automatic 25 years.......maybe more...

Loads other examples of pathetic sentencing for serious crimes...

Tacitus Kilgore

marieholmfan wrote: »

It worked in China and it works in Singapore and Malaysia.

Irish society needs to make a choice between prohibition of cocaine and the abolition of capital punishment.

The difficulty with successful prohibition is that it requires widespread use of the death penalty.

The difficulty with the abolition of prohibition is that one must also regulate and legalise the recreational use of cocaine.

I would prefer that the death penalty be widely used.

It didn't achieve anything in those countries except for the successful execution of people.

Have you ever heard of the triads?

begbysback

After reading some posts on here I’m starting get really worried about “normal” people. Some of the stuff that goes through their heads is deeply disturbing.

At least with criminals you know where you stand.


“The happiness of your life depends on the quality of your thoughts” - MA

A big part of the problem is Joe Blogs with a respectable job and family who thinks it's perfectly ok to buy coke etc for a Saturday night out from these scumbags without a care or thought for the mess they are in fact contributing to.

marieholmfan

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

It didn't achieve anything in those countries except for the successful execution of people.

Have you ever heard of the triads?

Yes they thrived in Hong Kong under British rule. The Chinese eliminated opium smoking among Han Chinese (people defined as non Han were allowed to smoke it if this was perceived as traditional) by
1 shooting all known drug dealers after 1 or 0 warnings

2 giving addicts three months to clean up and then shooting those who hadn't cleaned up

walshb

Question to all:

Tried and convicted of being a member of a criminal gang/organization:

Sentence?

ballsdeep69

walshb wrote: »

Question to all:

Tried and convicted of being a member of a criminal gang/organization:

Sentence?

probation act

marieholmfan

Deleted User wrote: »

A big part of the problem is Joe Blogs with a respectable job and family who thinks it's perfectly ok to buy coke etc for a Saturday night out from these scumbags without a care or thought for the mess they are in fact contributing to.

If cocaine were legalised the social consequences could be extraordinary. Or maybe there would be no disaster.

The alternatives are legalisation of cocaine and reintroduction of the death penalty (and some innocent people will be executed).

marieholmfan

walshb wrote: »

Question to all:

Tried and convicted of being a member of a criminal gang/organization:

Sentence?

What crime has been committed other than knowing criminals?

Stevieluvsye

walshb wrote: »

Question to all:

Tried and convicted of being a member of a criminal gang/organization:

Sentence?

Depends on the role they play, it's not a one size fits all approach you can take

AndrewJRenko

walshb wrote: »

This legalizing drugs or bringing in the death penalty is nonsense,

Just tighten up and strengthen and enforce sentencing....

Remove the people from society. Yu don't need to execute them or legalize drugs to do this...

Remove them either permanently or for far longer times....

There are people service 3-4-5-6-7 years for armed robberies, for example....

This should be an automatic 25 years.......maybe more...

Loads other examples of pathetic sentencing for serious crimes...

How's that working out in the States for eliminating serious crimes?

ElBastardo1

They need to build a prison capable of housing 5000 people. The judges need to have standard sentences that cannot be appealed against. They need to target middle to lower tier drug dealers for their unaccountable assets. They need to lock drug dealers up for 5 years minimum for 1st timers and 15 years for 2nd drugs offence. Our society is still intact in the majority of areas. There is areas where laws don't exist. I feel sorry for any family raising children in areas where this goes on.

This yound lad that's been chopped up? This has to be linked to Cocaine or some others drugs. Who in their right name could chop arms and legs off anyone. Drugs are destroying people. Cocaine is an absolute destructive drug and alot of people aren't right in their minds with it. That poor mother in Arklow who was murdered by her Ex BF? I bet he was off his head on it. It's a massive problem, and no one cares in power.