Gangland Shootings Cont'd [Mod Note in Post #1 updated 27/01/20

Gadgetman496

Suckit wrote: »

4 members of one family killed for crime not a complete wipe out, but it is pretty much a drubbing in my book.

A loss of a family member is a loss of a family member regardless of how that loss occurred.

It's still a loss of 5 over a relatively short period, so yes, "a drubbing"

ElBastardo1

Don't forget the close associates of the Hutch's.

Have a look at the RTE interview with Gerry, he was considered the Don of the inner city. That star has seriously faded.

El_Bee

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/the-monk-john-hutch-funeral-16632112

John had previously survived two attempted hits by the Kinahan Cartel despite having no involvement in criminality

is that part actually true?

pablo128

Suckit wrote: »

4 members of one family killed for crime not a complete wipe out, but it is pretty much a drubbing in my book.

They are definitely on the losing side alright.

Deco Barry

I wonder does DK consider this death as a nice freebie. (I don't meant to sound disrespectful RIP)

hatrickpatrick

I still always wonder how this whole feud might have played out if the Regency hadn't been botched. Assuming they never intended to kill Liam Byrne (and there's never been any suggestion that they did), one would imagine that even if they'd managed to get Daniel Kinahan there would still have been a retaliatory bloodbath.

Voltex

The Kinahans haven't got off scott free from this! They're basically pariah in gangland...nobody trusts them anymore or wants to do business...and John Smith I think has played a blinder in that regard, keeping that message going!

Flashy is f ucked now too, so is everyone who ever associated themselves with the Kinahans. The media are all over them, the Gardai have so many informers they dont even know what to do with them..not to mention the number of Dublin based crews who see the current weakness and want to take advantage!

spider baby 172

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I still always wonder how this whole feud might have played out if the Regency hadn't been botched. Assuming they never intended to kill Liam Byrne (and there's never been any suggestion that they did), one would imagine that even if they'd managed to get Daniel Kinahan there would still have been a retaliatory bloodbath.

I think you mean David Byrne. But I have wondered the same thing. I think if they had got the intended target, there would have been retaliation but no where near on this scale. The Byrnes likely wouldn't have been so bloodthirsty, Freddie would probably have nestled in on the Hutch side and it would have been left to Christy senior to organise something. Whether he had the thirst for an all out war we will never know. But I think he was intending on sitting back and enjoying the fruits of his "labour", rather than bringing all this attention on them.

spider baby 172

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Jesus, that's so incredibly depressing. Thanks for clearing this up, although I kinda regret asking.

I'm assuming Patsy is the one who lives around Champion's Avenue in Dublin and is the reason for the almost 24/7 Garda presence there, you'd think he'd have long since got the hell out of Dublin with the amount of pressure he must be under... I was amazed when Eddie was shot, I couldn't believe anyone close to Gerry was still sleeping at home knowing that the key players had escaped from the Regency and would surely be coming knocking. I realise it's easier said than done to get out of town, but even so...

Yeah thats him. He must have zero quality of life being trapped in there. I think they really underestimated the speed and viscousness of the retaliation. But looking back it was bonkers that they didn't take more precautions.
I think there is at least 2 sisters of the Monk living in the North Inner City aswell, if not more. And there is a niece that is constantly before the courts, for relatively small crimes I think.

The Enbalmer

spider baby 172 wrote: »

Yeah thats him. He must have zero quality of life being trapped in there.

Pity about him isn't it?


He was hardly a paragon of law-abiding citizenship before all this kicked off.


Plus the taxpayer is funding him and a large number of his family to live without ever working.

spider baby 172

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Pity about him isn't it?


He was hardly a paragon of law-abiding citizenship before all this kicked off.


Plus the taxpayer is funding him and a large number of his family to live without ever working.

Yeah that is fair.
I don't know much about him before this all kicked off but there is a perception out there he was not a very good person

The Enbalmer

spider baby 172 wrote: »

Yeah that is fair.
I don't know much about him before this all kicked off but there is a perception out there he was not a very good person

Spoke once to a detective from Store St,he was at pains to point out that that family have a higher than average scumbag to normal ratio although as he said,it keeps him in a job.

Jizique

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Pity about him isn't it?


He was hardly a paragon of law-abiding citizenship before all this kicked off.


Plus the taxpayer is funding him and a large number of his family to live without ever working.

Not a feature unique to parts of that family

hatrickpatrick

spider baby 172 wrote: »

I think you mean David Byrne.

I did mean Liam - Liam is/was the top guy in the Dublin branch of the cartel, by all accounts David was far less involved or at least far less involved in the management side. So as long as Liam was never a target at that incident, he would still have been out there to mount a campaign of revenge against the Hutches for attacking the cartel and killing his pal (assuming they wouldn't have bothered killing David if they'd managed to get DK instead)

I'm basing all this on hearsay, that most of the bloodshed which came afterwards was motivated primarily by Liam Byrne's grieving anger over his brother's death, not Daniel Kinahan's anger over having been targeted. Many people who seem to know what they're talking about have alluded to this over the last few years, but it could be BS.

But I have wondered the same thing. I think if they had got the intended target, there would have been retaliation but no where near on this scale. The Byrnes likely wouldn't have been so bloodthirsty, Freddie would probably have nestled in on the Hutch side and it would have been left to Christy senior to organise something. Whether he had the thirst for an all out war we will never know. But I think he was intending on sitting back and enjoying the fruits of his "labour", rather than bringing all this attention on them.

It's certainly been reported that Christy Snr is incredibly pissed that the rampage brought so much unwanted attention to the cartel's operations and ultimately led to the massive CAB and Garda crackdown.

I've said this before, but David Byrne's extravagant funeral would appear to have been a massive mistake, it seems the blatant display of drug money wealth in the cortege was seen as a direct two fingers to the justice system here and was one of the factors in deciding to crack down so heavily.

KM792

Would the Hutch family as a whole be well known/liked in Dublin?
I remember the time of Eddie's funeral reading there was in excess of 1,000 at his funeral.

Tough losses for that family.

tmabr

spider baby 172 wrote: »

Yeah thats him. He must have zero quality of life being trapped in there. I think they really underestimated the speed and viscousness of the retaliation. But looking back it was bonkers that they didn't take more precautions.
I think there is at least 2 sisters of the Monk living in the North Inner City aswell, if not more. And there is a niece that is constantly before the courts, for relatively small crimes I think.

Patsy done my carpets a few years ago, id no idea who he was.

Couple of weeks ago i was looking again and was trying to get his number off my ma on the family wattsapp group, all cracking up laughing telling me that he probably isn't out n about fitting carpets these days

spider baby 172

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I did mean Liam - Liam is/was the top guy in the Dublin branch of the cartel, by all accounts David was far less involved or at least far less involved in the management side. So as long as Liam was never a target at that incident, he would still have been out there to mount a campaign of revenge against the Hutches for attacking the cartel and killing his pal (assuming they wouldn't have bothered killing David if they'd managed to get DK instead)

I'm basing all this on hearsay, that most of the bloodshed which came afterwards was motivated primarily by Liam Byrne's grieving anger over his brother's death, not Daniel Kinahan's anger over having been targeted. Many people who seem to know what they're talking about have alluded to this over the last few years, but it could be BS.



It's certainly been reported that Christy Snr is incredibly pissed that the rampage brought so much unwanted attention to the cartel's operations and ultimately led to the massive CAB and Garda crackdown.

I've said this before, but David Byrne's extravagant funeral would appear to have been a massive mistake, it seems the blatant display of drug money wealth in the cortege was seen as a direct two fingers to the justice system here and was one of the factors in deciding to crack down so heavily.

If they got DK in the regency and not David Byrne I wouldn't expect a fraction of the retaliation. Yes Liam and Daniel Kinahan are/were palls and all that but its business. It seems there was a time the Hutches and the Byrnes were on the same page so I think they could find a way to move on from it all possibly and keep the show on the road.

As you say reading between the lines there is little doubt a large part of this was driven on by the Byrnes hunger for revenge. But I have to believe Daniel Kinahan is equally bloodthirsty. If it was simply Liam organizing this carnage and bringing all this attention to the Kinahans doorstep, surely they would have him taken out. We have seen this before.

realdanbreen

spider baby 172 wrote: »

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I did mean Liam - Liam is/was the top guy in the Dublin branch of the cartel, by all accounts David was far less involved or at least far less involved in the management side. So as long as Liam was never a target at that incident, he would still have been out there to mount a campaign of revenge against the Hutches for attacking the cartel and killing his pal (assuming they wouldn't have bothered killing David if they'd managed to get DK instead)

I'm basing all this on hearsay, that most of the bloodshed which came afterwards was motivated primarily by Liam Byrne's grieving anger over his brother's death, not Daniel Kinahan's anger over having been targeted. Many people who seem to know what they're talking about have alluded to this over the last few years, but it could be BS.



It's certainly been reported that Christy Snr is incredibly pissed that the rampage brought so much unwanted attention to the cartel's operations and ultimately led to the massive CAB and Garda crackdown.

I've said this before, but David Byrne's extravagant funeral would appear to have been a massive mistake, it seems the blatant display of drug money wealth in the cortege was seen as a direct two fingers to the justice system here and was one of the factors in deciding to crack down so heavily.

If they got DK in the regency and not David Byrne I wouldn't expect a fraction of the retaliation. Yes Liam and Daniel Kinahan are/were palls and all that but its business. It seems there was a time the Hutches and the Byrnes were on the same page so I think they could find a way to move on from it all possibly and keep the show on the road.

As you say reading between the lines there is little doubt a large part of this was driven on by the Byrnes hunger for revenge. But I have to believe Daniel Kinahan is equally bloodthirsty. If it was simply Liam organizing this carnage and bringing all this attention to the Kinahans doorstep, surely they would have him taken out. We have seen this before.

Has christy kinihan any siblings? I'm surprised there hasn't been a move against them or the byrnes.

spider baby 172

realdanbreen wrote: »

Has christy kinihan any siblings? I'm surprised there hasn't been a move against them or the byrnes.

He has one sister that I know of.

Deco Barry

spider baby 172 wrote: »

Yeah that is fair.
I don't know much about him before this all kicked off but there is a perception out there he was not a very good person

Yeah he was always throwing the family name about...Gerry was a decent fella but patsy very much lived on the name his brother had created and it is widely known that patsy was the driving force behind the hutch side in the feud even though the papers always say he's completely innocent which I don't believe one bit

Gadgetman496

Why did they kill David Byrne that day? Was it a case of we missed the intended target so we're not leaving empty handed & he just happened to be returning from the jon when they were in the lobby, or, did they want him dead too anyway?

They obviously knew who he was, right?

White lighting

Deco Barry wrote: »

Yeah he was always throwing the family name about...Gerry was a decent fella but patsy very much lived on the name his brother had created and it is widely known that patsy was the driving force behind the hutch side in the feud even though the papers always say he's completely innocent which I don't believe one bit

In fairness if someone shot my son dead i would want revenge too.

snickers

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

Why did they kill David Byrne that day? Was it a case of we missed the intended target so we're not leaving empty handed & he just happened to be returning from the jon when they were in the lobby, or, did they want him dead too anyway?

They obviously knew who he was, right?

They were looking for any top tier kinahan associates ideally cancer was the main target but the Byrnes would defo of been seen as in the top tier and fair game for shooters but David must of separated from the main group and got unlucky to be found pretty sure if they came across the main group there would have been many more life’s lost that day .

Deco Barry

White lighting wrote: »

In fairness if someone shot my son dead i would want revenge too.

Yes but this is different circumstances,he decided to take on the kinahans even though Gerry himself supposedly told him it was a bad idea,look how that turned out for him,two brothers and two nephews gone and he among others are prisoners in their own home so I can guarantee you this if he had his time back he would have taken the murder of his son a lot differently

snickers

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

Why did they kill David Byrne that day? Was it a case of we missed the intended target so we're not leaving empty handed & he just happened to be returning from the jon when they were in the lobby, or, did they want him dead too anyway?

They obviously knew who he was, right?

They were looking for any top tier kinahan associates ideally cancer was the main target but the Byrnes would defo of been seen as in the top tier and fair game for shooters but David must of separated from the main group and got unlucky to be found pretty sure if they came across the main group there would have been many more life’s lost that day .

spider baby 172

Deco Barry wrote: »

Yeah he was always throwing the family name about...Gerry was a decent fella but patsy very much lived on the name his brother had created and it is widely known that patsy was the driving force behind the hutch side in the feud even though the papers always say he's completely innocent which I don't believe one bit

Yeah that kinda goes in line with what I have heard and read. I had an uncle in law that lived in North Inner City and the impression I got was that Gerry was good to the people and always held in high enough regard. That said up until this there wasn't anyone would dare cross him. He must have done something to get that fear/respect.

When the twitter war was at its height a few months ago it was always Patsy was being called out and mocked. Never Gerry. Whatever we think, I'd say the Kinahan/Byrne side and all their followers were blaming Patsy for the feud.

spider baby 172

snickers wrote: »

They were looking for any top tier kinahan associates ideally cancer was the main target but the Byrnes would defo of been seen as in the top tier and fair game for shooters but David must of separated from the main group and got unlucky to be found pretty sure if they came across the main group there would have been many more life’s lost that day .

I'd say that was exactly it. Cancer was no.1 target and anyone after that was a bonus. Byrnes, Bop Roe etc. Looking back though, as well planned as it was, it surprised me that they didn't have anyone to cover any back doors to the carpark. If I am not mistaken that car park has only one way in and out.

Good god imagine if there was 3 or 4 of the Kinahan side killed that day or even an innocent, there would have been 10 times more attention and the entire state would be united to take down the Hutches. They would all have been locked up. Maybe the lesser of 2 evils in hindsight. I don't think the Hutch side were prepared for the consequences, whatever the outcome.

spider baby 172

realdanbreen wrote: »

Has christy kinihan any siblings? I'm surprised there hasn't been a move against them or the byrnes.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/how-crime-lord-daniel-kinahan-used-four-cleaning-companies-to-build-an-empire-34460321.html

snickers

spider baby 172 wrote: »

I'd say that was exactly it. Cancer was no.1 target and anyone after that was a bonus. Byrnes, Bop Roe etc. Looking back though, as well planned as it was, it surprised me that they didn't have anyone to cover any back doors to the carpark. If I am not mistaken that car park has only one way in and out.

Good god imagine if there was 3 or 4 of the Kinahan side killed that day or even an innocent, there would have been 10 times more attention and the entire state would be united to take down the Hutches. They would all have been locked up. Maybe the lesser of 2 evils in hindsight. I don't think the Hutch side were prepared for the consequences, whatever the outcome.

There was a lot of planning for sure but well planned I don’t think so in this day and age with all the different types of communication devices available If they had an unknown spotter inside communicating to gunmen via headsets or whatever the location of the main body of the kinahan crew then things would be a lot different there would surely have been a massacre and with that many top level members taken out there would have been a huge vacuum in power on the kinahan side and cause that many problems that they would of imploded imo. So to sum it up the hutches put all there eggs in one basket that being the regency and failed miserably to pull something of that magnitude off takes a lot of training giving someone an AK doesn’t make them a soldier I would say two properly trained navy seals or sas soldiers would have got the job done but these lads were amateurs probably trained in a field in Monaghan .

Gadgetman496

Regardless of the way it panned out, it either was an idiotic thing to try, or, it took some balls to stage it.