NBP part II

Gonzo

Headshot wrote: »

Imagine know full well this is just a nonsense challenge and all they are doing is delaying NBP to drain more money out of their customer base who for the most part of sick and tired of the awful service they provide.

When NBP come I truly hope it will be the nail in the coffin of Imagine and their marketing 5G broadband rubbish

I don't think there ever will be a nail in the coffin for Imagine. Sean Bolger has determination and neck by the bucketload, he will do whatever it takes to not only survive, but to dominate the Irish rural broadband market. I'm sure he has many other dirty tricks up his sleeve to ensure that Imagine will still be very much the only provider of choice into the 2020's for many in rural Ireland.

KOR101

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2019-10-01/speech/166/

Surprising that this didn't make the news. Have things really got that bad?

wexfordman2

Ultimanemo wrote: »

If they challenge the NBP, I will be contacting the Comreg every week with their speed

Wouldn't ookla and the rest have stats relating to imagine network performance (and others).

Is there a way maybe if getting this information?

Orebro

ussjtrunks wrote: »

Do WISPs not see the NBP as an opportunity to just switch their customers to fibre, they have alot of wireless customers that youd think would be happy staying with their Current ISP just connected to a fibre line instead.

As someone earlier on the thread succinctly put it - they’d prefer to continue making plenty of money selling oil lamps to rural Ireland when everywhere else has electricity.

Orebro

KOR101 wrote: »

Surprising that this didn't make the news. Have things really got that bad?

Micheal Martin questioning the Taoiseach why the NBP hasn’t been signed in Sept, knowing full well his colleague Timmy Dooley was doing his damndest to hold it up or kill it completely!

tototoe

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Wouldn't ookla and the rest have stats relating to imagine network performance (and others).

Is there a way maybe if getting this information?

They may do, but they would tell you feic all. Someone speed testing wirelessly on a piece of crap mobile or tablet would skew any results. Unless you are sure of the test method for every single test, ooklas stats mean sweet FA. The accuracy of a lot of speed test servers is questionable in any case, particularly Irish servers. Maybe Cix and black night or Vodafone would be accurate enough but there ain't many that are set up for lots of high speed speedtests simultaneously.

Pique

Don't most ISPs open the taps when you access a speedtest server anyway?

Ultimanemo

This is just now
All the speed tests I post are done with direct cable connection between the computer and the router

tsue921i8wljb3

KOR101 wrote: »

Surprising that this didn't make the news. Have things really got that bad?

It might hit the papers tomorrow now that they've read it here!

Orebro

The one tech reporter doing sterling work is Adrian Weckler - I’m sure he’s all over this.

celticbhoy27

Orebro wrote: »

The one tech reporter doing sterling work is Adrian Wreckler - I’m sure he’s all over this.

He was very involved in it and ran multiple stories on it for the times iirc. Last few articles in relation to it from said paper have come from diff journo. Maybe not covering it anymore.

tsue921i8wljb3

celticbhoy27 wrote: »

He was very involved in it and ran multiple stories on it for the times iirc. Last few articles in relation to it from said paper have come from diff journo. Maybe not covering it anymore.

I believe you're thinking of Peter O'Dwyer who used to write for the Times until they let most of their staff go. He is now with the Business Post. Weckler has always been with the Irish Independent.

celticbhoy27

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

I believe you're thinking of Peter O'Dwyer who used to write for the Times until they let most of their staff go. He is now with the Business Post. Weckler has always been with the Irish Independent.

Apologies it is the indo. But it was only the name of the paper that was wrong in my post. Wreckler hasn't covered the nbp for a bit. I follow him on Twitter etc. Don't know if he's lost interest or directed to cover other tech

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/news/rollout-of-3bn-national-broadband-plan-delayed-yet-again-38498568.html&ved=2ahUKEwj-jPaUsv7kAhWmThUIHf0eACkQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw1bz3IT-rOBpZOV7sqLSUxz&ampcf=1

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.independent.ie/business/technology/news/imagine-says-its-connecting-rural-ireland-to-5g-broadband-38472184.html&ved=2ahUKEwj-jPaUsv7kAhWmThUIHf0eACkQFjACegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw065Ty-YMQQIjTdmT-SIMIk&ampcf=1&cshid=1570047521580

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.independent.ie/business/technology/broadband-rollout-contract-wont-be-signed-in-time-for-ploughing-as-was-promised-38483708.html&ved=2ahUKEwj-jPaUsv7kAhWmThUIHf0eACkQFjAEegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw3-eD7EJYSX8SPM8b_LfHkq&ampcf=1&cshid=1570047521580

Marlow

user1842 wrote: »

I thought multicast only works for live TV?

Is there now a way for it to work with Netflix etc... some type of caching??

It will not work for Netflix, as it is delivered across multiple networks to reach the end customer.

The TV service that each individual ISP may deliver can be delivered using multicast. Simply because they supply the feed and they control the network.

It does not have to be a live feed.

Netflix .. and similar services .. as a result on how they deliver .. will always be affected by contention up the line. Especially when people expect to get 3 streams of 4k at the same time.

But if that trend continues then users will be guaranteed, that even ISPs with currently no cap, will introduce limits. It becomes unprofitable for them at the current pricepoint. Residential pricing can not deliver uncontended bandwidth at its current price point.

Even Sky introduced a 1TB/month fair use policy, when they moved from VDSL to FTTH.

/M

allanpkr

1TB i wish lol oh i dream of the day. im on a wisp i get 2mbps max and have done forever . i can pay double and get 4 mb lol . yep call me greedy lol.

Gonzo

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Wouldn't ookla and the rest have stats relating to imagine network performance (and others).

Is there a way maybe if getting this information?

they probably need to update this with data from all of 2018, but this is OOkla's report from about a year ago. Imagine is bottom of the table for average overall speeds for fixed line broadband.

https://www.speedtest.net/reports/ireland/#fixed

clohamon

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

Confirmation from the Taoiseach that Imagine have made a challenge to the mapping process.

Originally Posted by Taoiseach
On the national broadband plan, the contract has not been signed but we have appointed a preferred bidder. Imagine has challenged the maps and that has caused a delay. Deputies will be aware that Imagine provides a service in many parts of rural Ireland and has challenged the intervention area. We anticipate being able to

---

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2019-10-01/speech/166/

Hard to believe that the European Commission will now independently re-analyse all the existing antenna data, coverage plots, backhaul etc of existing Imagine services, ....and any new Imagine proposals, .....and potentially all the other WISPS.

recyclebin

Wish someone in the government had the balls to tell Imagine to F off. They don't meet the requirements for the NBP and never will using their wireless technology.

I doubt Imagine would take a court case over it as they are guaranteed to lose.

Surely there are already precedents in Europe with other broadband plans.

ArrBee

Orebro wrote: »

#BoycottImagine when the NBP rolls out people.

I wonder how many connections followed by 14day cancellations they could financially withstand?

Pique

ArrBee wrote:

I wonder how many connections followed by 14day cancellations they could financially withstand?

That's evil

ArrBee

Pique wrote: »

That's evil ðŸ˜

And hopefully carefully worded enough.... :P

KOR101

recyclebin wrote: »

Wish someone in the government had the balls to tell Imagine to F off. They don't meet the requirements for the NBP and never will using their wireless technology.

I doubt Imagine would take a court case over it as they are guaranteed to lose.

Surely there are already precedents in Europe with other broadband plans.

The point is not about winning, but making money through a delay.


I'm sure they will be rejected quickly by the EU, but I assume they can legally challenge that decision. Imagine are 'full of it' so it's hard to know what will happen.

plodder

Marlow wrote: »

It will not work for Netflix, as it is delivered across multiple networks to reach the end customer.

You did say though that streams could be delivered with a properly designed multicast network, and the context was clearly not broadcast TV as the poster was talking about 4k streams.

The TV service that each individual ISP may deliver can be delivered using multicast. Simply because they supply the feed and they control the network.

It does not have to be a live feed.

It has to be broadcast at the same time for anyone who wants it. Why anyone would want to do that with a fixed wireless network, escapes me though, when you have satellite doing a perfectly good job already.

Netflix .. and similar services .. as a result on how they deliver .. will always be affected by contention up the line. Especially when people expect to get 3 streams of 4k at the same time.

But if that trend continues then users will be guaranteed, that even ISPs with currently no cap, will introduce limits. It becomes unprofitable for them at the current pricepoint. Residential pricing can not deliver uncontended bandwidth at its current price point.

Even Sky introduced a 1TB/month fair use policy, when they moved from VDSL to FTTH.

/M

They won't "always" be affected by contention. That is the point of the appliances that the poster referred to and these could be come a differentiating factor for some ISPs, when fibre is more widely deployed. They might have a 1TB/month limit, but Netflix might be exempt from that, which could be a useful selling point.

user1842

I hope the government are doing an independent analysis of Imagine's claims. If Imagine claim that they are supplying proper broadband to my parents house then I will contact the Minister directly (my parents only get about 6mbps down at peak with Imagine).

Gonzo

If I was living in an NBP area and Imagine manage to get several hundred thousand homes withdrawn from the NBP and FTTH, I would be beyond raging, it would be an absolute farce if this happens. I hope our government see's the sense in this crazy situation. If Imagine wins the hearts of the powers that be then the game is over.

Orebro

The Government is all over this one so no worries there - in fairness, Richard Bruton is well up on his brief and understands the limitations of different technology - this won’t change a thing.

allanpkr

I think any broadband supplier must be made to guarantee at least 80 percent of advertised download claims at peak if not then fines should be introduced. esb say we will supply 230v and only supply 50v??. shops selling a packet of 10 razors but only give you 4...etc etc. why are broadband suppliers allowed to claim unreachable downloads?.

Gonzo

allanpkr wrote: »

I think any broadband supplier must be made to guarantee at least 80 percent of advertised download claims at peak if not then fines should be introduced. esb say we will supply 230v and only supply 50v??. shops selling a packet of 10 razors but only give you 4...etc etc. why are broadband suppliers allowed to claim unreachable downloads?.

this isn't possible with non fibre products such as ADSL or VDSL cabinet products due to distance from exchange or cabinet and quality of line.

Imagine and most wireless operators suffers from even more problems such as distance from mast, line of sight, weather conditions, their back haul, limited bandwidth and stuffing too many customers onto the network.

Only FTTH and cable internet can fairly guarantee at least 80% of advertised speeds.

allanpkr

Gonzo wrote: »

this isn't possible with non fibre products such as ADSL or VDSL cabinet products due to distance from exchange or cabinet and quality of line.

Imagine and most wireless operators suffers from even more problems such as distance from mast, line of sight, weather conditions, their back haul, limited bandwidth and stuffing too many customers onto the network.

Only FTTH and cable internet can fairly guarantee at least 80% of advertised speeds.

then my point would be valid. as all poor performing isps would stand out to every customer whatever their knowledge of broadband. those who cant offer guarantee are obviously not upto the advertised mb or gb level .

allanpkr

allanpkr wrote: »

then my point would be valid. as all poor performing isps would stand out to every customer whatever their knowledge of broadband. those who cant offer guarantee are obviously not upto the advertised mb or gb level .

sorry, but why should businesses be allowed to advertise something which they cant ever supply. all other businesses must follow rules of advertisment, why are any broadband suppliers exempt. A person seeing a full page advert from say ....imagine advertising rural broadband at 1gb, would probably not sign up if a law stated it must guarantee any claims of level. instead at the moment imagine gets the ill informed to sign up and after a few months find they are never getting what they are paying for.