NBP part II

The high horse brigade

All residential broadband is contended. Uncontended broadband is 10x the price.

Tommy Lagahan

Gonzo wrote: »

If I was living in an NBP area and Imagine manage to get several hundred thousand homes withdrawn from the NBP and FTTH, I would be beyond raging, it would be an absolute farce if this happens. I hope our government see's the sense in this crazy situation. If Imagine wins the hearts of the powers that be then the game is over.

I can see that happening in my area, FTTH rollout ended 1km away, Imagine rolled around couple of weeks ago pushing hard.

KOR101

Fibre............

Paschal Donohoe (Tuesday, October 1st)

I am happy to give the Deputy Cowen an answer now. I was apologising to him because the question on legal penalties had not been answered and I thought it had been answered. I will make sure he receives information tomorrow, insofar as it is available to me, to clarify where the Government stands on the national broadband plan.

Any delay in the Minister, Deputy Bruton, bringing a memorandum to Government, which I expect soon, is entirely unrelated to Brexit or any of the macroeconomic concerns that the Deputy and I have touched on. Lest there be any doubt, I still believe we should go ahead with the national broadband plan. A no-deal Brexit would most adversely affect the same communities and parts of the country that would benefit from the national broadband plan. As the Deputy can imagine, when we reach the point of signing a contract, those who believe we should not sign it or that the contract could be improved will need to make a case for how that could be done. As somebody who grappled with this issue for a year, I ask anyone who is committed to 100% coverage and believes fibre optic is the best way of delivering nationwide coverage to come up with a better way of delivering those objectives and making the service available soon.

KOR101

Paschal Donohoe (Tuesday, October 1st)

Actually, accountability is putting questions to Members of this House and people who are in positions of influence, like myself, and my being held accountable to the House for them, which is what happened.

In regard to the national children's hospital, the Deputy will be aware there was change in regard to individuals who were in positions of responsibility across the period when the debate on the national children's hospital was at its highest. In terms of accountability beyond that, and in particular in regard to the national broadband plan, for those who think there is a cheaper and quicker way of delivering 100% coverage apart from this plan - perhaps the Deputy is one of them - the time is coming when they will need to spell out how that will happen. I can tell him that I spent the best part of a year trying to establish if that could be done and I reached the conclusion that the plan in front of us was, on balance, the best way of making it happen.

The Cush

Orebro wrote: »

The one tech reporter doing sterling work is Adrian Weckler - I’m sure he’s all over this.

Imagine says it is not freshly challenging the NBP map, despite Taoiseach saying so in Dail and attributing NBP contract delay to Imagine’s “challenge”.
Imagine says it merely informed Dept of its “existing and planned commercial investment” in some rural areas targeted by NBP.

https://twitter.com/adrianweckler/status/1179794210016387072

celticbhoy27

The Cush wrote: »

https://twitter.com/adrianweckler/status/1179794210016387072

Good news.

tsue921i8wljb3

celticbhoy27 wrote: »

Good news.

Not really. The end objective is the same. They want the premises they "cover" removed from the NBP.

tototoe

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

Not really. The end objective is the same. They want the premises they "cover" removed from the NBP.

I'd say they know well they won't stop an nbp in some form, but all this could tie it up for quite a while. The end of the year could be very optimistic for a contract to be signed..

tsue921i8wljb3

tototoe wrote: »

I'd say they know well they won't stop an nbp in some form, but all this could tie it up for quite a while. The end of the year could be very optimistic for a contract to be signed..

Especially if they could delay it until there is an election. If a Fianna Fáil government came to power could they continue with the project given their scathing criticism of it so far.

KOR101

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

Especially if they could delay it until there is an election. If a Fianna Fáil government came to power could they continue with the project given their scathing criticism of it so far.

I think FF is playing poilitcs with the NBP and successfully so. But, once they've got power there is no need for that any more. Then, they would need FG support and it would probably suit FF fine if FG insisted that the NBP went ahead. Also, the Department would point out the huge legal problem of backing out now without a reason that relates to the finalisation of contract details with NBI.

tsue921i8wljb3

More quotes from Imagine in the following article. When is a challenge not a challenge?

https://www.independent.ie/business/technology/news/taoiseach-says-fresh-nbp-delay-down-to-challenge-from-wireless-operator-imagine-38560678.html

allanpkr

so are imagine...saying they can give as good as imagine gives in urban areas or are they saying they can match ftth in urban areas. i mean we all know the latter would be just a downright lie.

KOR101

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

More quotes from Imagine in the following article. When is a challenge not a challenge?

https://www.independent.ie/business/technology/news/taoiseach-says-fresh-nbp-delay-down-to-challenge-from-wireless-operator-imagine-38560678.html

Certainly is a challenge. What they are saying is that there is no argument because they already provide commercial high-speed broadband services in certain areas, so what argument can there be. So, horse****, but we still don't know how far they can take this and therefore the amount of the delay.

celticbhoy27

****ed off with the whole thing.

Pique

Imagine claims that it now has infrastructure in place that could deliver broadband to 234,000 of the 540,000 premises identified in the state’s NBP intervention map, which lists the homes and businesses that cannot be served by high speed broadband at equivalent speed and quality to urban areas.

I'd love to see Imagine argue they can provide that.

tsue921i8wljb3

One could see where Imagine have cause for complaint. Take DCCAE's own page about various commercial investments. Along with eir, SIRO and Virgin they have:

In February 2019 Imagine announced plans to invest €300 million a high speed broadband deployment across Ireland. The announcement follows on from an announcement in 2018 of a partnership with global asset management group Brookfield and €120m funding to roll out high speed broadband across underserved areas of the country.

https://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/communications/topics/Broadband/national-broadband-plan/commercial-investment/Pages/Commercial-Investment.aspx

Gonzo

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

More quotes from Imagine in the following article. When is a challenge not a challenge?

https://www.independent.ie/business/technology/news/taoiseach-says-fresh-nbp-delay-down-to-challenge-from-wireless-operator-imagine-38560678.html

just more slimy tactics by Imagine, rather than going all in they are merely 'suggesting' to the government in a nice friendly manner that they can take on up to 250,000 homes from the NBP. I have to admit Imagine are really good at playing the game.

tototoe

KOR101 wrote: »

I think FF is playing poilitcs with the NBP and successfully so. But, once they've got power there is no need for that any more. Then, they would need FG support and it would probably suit FF fine if FG insisted that the NBP went ahead. Also, the Department would point out the huge legal problem of backing out now without a reason that relates to the finalisation of contract details with NBI.

Would be extremely naive to think this whole thing is anything but political. Do you really believe FG care about 4k netflix in rural ireland, or connectivity in general in rural ireland or urban ireland, if they didnt think it would buy them a few votes?

Gonzo

Imagine claims that it now has infrastructure in place that could deliver broadband to 234,000 of the 540,000 premises identified in the state’s NBP intervention map, which lists the homes and businesses that cannot be served by high speed broadband at equivalent speed and quality to urban areas.

so they want to take 234,000 homes away from being capable of receiving 1gig FTTH from multiple providers and instead let them have 1 provider with speeds ranging anywhere from dialup to 150meg, and speeds that fall off the cliff after 3pm and don't recover till after 1am.

They say these homes cannot be served by anything else? FTTH was a pipedream, but here I am using it for the past 3 years, If it's rollable outable to my home, then it's definitely rollable outable to all these 234,000 homes too, some of them are probably more urbanised that my area!.

Johnboy1951

Why would the WISPS believe that there should be only one infrastructure for broadband in rural areas, whereas there are often several in urban areas?

Whether the fibre lines are provided through intervention or by commercial roll out, the effect is the same ...... customers have choice of service type as well as provider on the regulated infrastructure.

As all the NBP charges are to be regulated, as I understand it, and the WISPS are as entitled to use the fibre as any other company, what is their beef?

tsue921i8wljb3

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Why would the WISPS believe that there should be only one infrastructure for broadband in rural areas, whereas there are often several in urban areas?

Whether the fibre lines are provided through intervention or by commercial roll out, the effect is the same ...... customers have choice of service type as well as provider on the regulated infrastructure.

As all the NBP charges are to be regulated, as I understand it, and the WISPS are as entitled to use the fibre as any other company, what is their beef?

Leaving aside whether WISPs meet NGA speed and technical specifications, surely you can see why a state backed entity entering a market must be highly regulated and must be prevented where there are existing commercial businesses operating? I don't think WISPs have a problem with commercial investment, in fact even if they did there is nothing they can do about it.

The issue as they see it, I presume, is that they have invested lots of time and money in building businesses which are now being undermined by the state writing a large cheque.

clohamon

allanpkr wrote: »

so are imagine...saying they can give as good as imagine gives in urban areas or are they saying they can match ftth in urban areas. i mean we all know the latter would be just a downright lie.

My guess is that Imagine are claiming that they only have to meet the NGA minimum - 30Mb/s.

Gonzo

clohamon wrote: »

My guess is that Imagine are claiming that they only have to meet the NGA minimum - 30Mb/s.

and they can't even reach that, most speedtests I've seen don't even get to 10meg.

allanpkr

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

Leaving aside whether WISPs meet NGA speed and technical specifications, surely you can see why a state backed entity entering a market must be highly regulated and must be prevented where there are existing commercial businesses operating? I don't think WISPs have a problem with commercial investment, in fact even if they did there is nothing they can do about it.

The issue as they see it, I presume, is that they have invested lots of time and money in building businesses which are now being undermined by the state writing a large cheque.

yes but if we follow that then your saying that rural ireland where at the moment cant get ftth must always accept a substandard service. as they wont provide it, but demand their service must be used.

Johnboy1951

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

Leaving aside whether WISPs meet NGA speed and technical specifications, surely you can see why a state backed entity entering a market must be highly regulated and must be prevented where there are existing commercial businesses operating? I don't think WISPs have a problem with commercial investment, in fact even if they did there is nothing they can do about it.

The issue as they see it, I presume, is that they have invested lots of time and money in building businesses which are now being undermined by the state writing a large cheque.

That is really the point ..... if the NBP rollout is open to all providers, then it is a heck of a lot more available to the WISPS for their use than a commercial roll out would ever be, and at a price at which no competitor would have an advantage.

So the WISPS could have a closed FWA system plus an open fibre system for their customers.
That certainly seems to me to be a better situation for them than any commercial roll out of fibre, running in the same areas, would be.

BandMember

Given the current weather conditions and the storm that's promised, I wonder how many Imagine customers are experiencing problems with their service compared to those people who have fibre connections? You won't see that in their "objection" that isn't an objection....

ArrBee

tototoe wrote: »

Would be extremely naive to think this whole thing is anything but political. Do you really believe FG care about 4k netflix in rural ireland, or connectivity in general in rural ireland or urban ireland, if they didnt think it would buy them a few votes?

I disagree. not that I would be a fan of any political party.

I'd say its likely to cost them more votes than it will gain them.
Its more of a future benefit that they are building with this approach. If they just wanted votes, they'd easily supply "broadband" which meets the needs til after the next election for a lot less.

Pique

BandMember wrote:

Given the current weather conditions and the storm that's promised, I wonder how many Imagine customers are experiencing problems with their service compared to those people who have fibre connections? You won't see that in their "objection" that isn't an objection....

My wisp is down today. They emailed me on Wednesday as a heads up.

clohamon

Has anyone got a link to the full text of Imagine's statement?

https://twitter.com/peterodwyer1/status/1180065802424406016

Orebro

Imagine really are that annoying douche at a party that you wish would just leave.