NBP part II

rodge123

Orebro wrote: »

Imagine really are that annoying douche at a party that you wish would just leave.

Or punch in the face! Repeatedly!

westyIrl

Is there any way for Joe Public to see what houses/eircodes/areas Imagine are stating they could cover? Or would it just be their checker?

In which case thankfully:

https://imgur.com/dbWNHxD

KOR101

Story in today's papers....

December 2015...

In 2015, lawyers representing Michael O’Flynn, Paddy McKillen, David Daly, Pat Crean and Brian McKeown lodged a complaint alleging that Nama distorts competition in the Irish property market.

https://www.thejournal.ie/eu-nama-state-aid-complaint-2-3816131-Jan2018/

January 2018...

THE EU HAS found that Nama didn’t breach state aid rules, scuppering a complaint from some of the country’s biggest developers.

https://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/oflynn-eyes-dublin-purchases-after-missing-out-on-project-clear-34280728.html

October 2019...

Lawyers representing Michael O’Flynn, Paddy McKillen and David Daly wrote to the European Commission on Thursday to inform it that they were withdrawing their appeal on the basis that the three substantive issues they had raised have been quietly dealt with by Nama.

The commission rejected the complaint in January 2018, with three of the developers appealing this decision to the General Court of the European Union.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/developers-withdraw-nama-state-aid-appeal-to-eu-court-1.4039447

clohamon

westyIrl wrote: »

Is there any way for Joe Public to see what houses/eircodes/areas Imagine are stating they could cover? Or would it just be their checker?

In which case thankfully:

https://imgur.com/dbWNHxD

You could buy an ECAD licence (€180) for a year. That would give you coordinates for all the eircodes. Then you could find which ones are inside Imagine's "coverage" map.

Whether you could publish this data is another matter. And then there's the accuracy of Imagine's map to consider, and what they mean by "coverage".

ussjtrunks

Doesnt the Plan want 100% coverage though, imagine cant install on some premises even inside the coverage area due to all kinds of factors. Unless we are going to put fibre to every tower, cut down alot of trees and give imagine its own frequency it shouldnt even be a remotely viable factor in the coverage map. Its almost amazing this nomsense hasnt been waived off immediately.

allanpkr

ussjtrunks wrote: »

Doesnt the Plan want 100% coverage though, imagine cant install on some premises even inside the coverage area due to all kinds of factors. Unless we are going to put fibre to every tower, cut down alot of trees and give imagine its own frequency it shouldnt even be a remotely viable factor in the coverage map. Its almost amazing this nomsense hasnt been waived off immediately.

exactly, i presume i live in an imagine area, however we have trees everywhere . one of the reasons eir didnt join one end of road to other end with ftth , trees made it to much bother. so we are one of the anomolys where ftth is at one end also at other end. so imagine has no chance of making broadband work here.

celticbhoy27

allanpkr wrote: »

exactly, i presume i live in an imagine area, however we have trees everywhere . one of the reasons eir didnt join one end of road to other end with ftth , trees made it to much bother. so we are one of the anomolys where ftth is at one end also at other end. so imagine has no chance of making broadband work here.

I'm one of their failed installs so yeah if they're going down the 100% market. Wisps shouldn't be an option

Ultimanemo

ussjtrunks wrote: »

Doesnt the Plan want 100% coverage though, imagine cant install on some premises even inside the coverage area due to all kinds of factors. Unless we are going to put fibre to every tower, cut down alot of trees and give imagine its own frequency it shouldnt even be a remotely viable factor in the coverage map. Its almost amazing this nomsense hasnt been waived off immediately.

I guess the government is looking for an excuse to keep kicking the can

The Cush

Run of the mill PQs on the NBP this week

- €28,235,975 (incl VAT) spent on the process to date
- deployment plan will be made available by the Bidder once the contract is signed

Deputy Michael McGrath asked the Minister for Communications the estimated cost of the national broadband plan; the amount paid to date; the expected amount that will be paid between now and the completion of the project; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Minister for Communications […] The deployment of the NBP State Intervention network will commence shortly after the contract is concluded with the preferred bidder.
...
The procurement process has determined that the maximum cost to the State over the 25 year term of the project will be €2.1bn, excluding VAT of €355m and contingency of €480m. The total spend to date on the procurement process and subsequent evaluation of tenders is €28,235,975 (including VAT).

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2019-10-03/276/speech/472/

Deputy Barry Cowen asked the Minister for Communications when he expects to sign the contract for the national broadband plan; the roll out timetable in terms of the number of premises to be connected in each quarter of 2020 and 2021; the number expected to be connected at the end of 2021

Minister for Communications […] A deployment plan will be made available by the Bidder once the contract is signed. In the first year of roll out, the Bidder will deploy approximately 300 Broadband Connection Points (BCPs) across all counties. It is anticipated that between 7 and 23 BCPs will be deployed in each county. BCPs will provide a community based high speed broadband service, enhancing online participation and allowing for the establishment of digital work hubs in these locations.

The Bidder is aiming to pass 133,000 premises at the end of the second year, with 70-100,000 passed each year thereafter until roll out is completed.

Work continues on finalising the contract and in parallel to this work, I am considering the recommendations of the Joint Oireachtas Communications Committee report which was published recently. I will bring my deliberations of the report to Government in due course.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2019-10-03/288/speech/482/

theguzman

Ultimanemo wrote: »

I guess the government is looking for an excuse to keep kicking the can

They are like a rabbit caught in the headlights of the oncoming Brexit train and are paralysed to do anything because they don't know what will happen. I wish Brexit was over and let us start the real political decisions like the National Broadband Plan etc.

tsue921i8wljb3

Here's an article from the Longford Leader with details of proposed broadband connection points in Longford.

https://www.longfordleader.ie/news/ballymahon/482835/ballymahon-md-to-receive-6-out-of-12-high-speed-broadband-access-points-in-longford.html

The Cush

In the SBP - Imagine says it can provide NBP homes with wireless broadband

A wireless broadband operator has told the government it can now service almost 45 per cent of the 540,000 premises included in the state’s National Broadband Plan

By Peter O’Dwyer
Oct 6, 2019

A wireless broadband operator has told the government it can now service almost 45 per cent of the 540,000 premises included in the state’s National Broadband Plan (NBP), The Sunday Business Post understands.

Last week, Taoiseach Leo Varadkar said Imagine had “challenged” the NBP map and “caused a delay” which was holding up the final award of the contract for the multi-billion euro plan to a firm led by US businessman David McCourt.

The company released...

Ultimanemo

The Cush wrote: »

In the SBP - Imagine says it can provide NBP homes with wireless broadband

They can with a speed of 150 at 6 am and 5 to 10 at 9 pm

Gonzo

The Cush wrote: »

In the SBP - Imagine says it can provide NBP homes with wireless broadband

I'd hate to see how bad Imagine's contention would be if they are allowed to add another 250,000 homes from the NBP to their network.

clohamon

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

Here's an article from the Longford Leader with details of proposed broadband connection points in Longford.

https://www.longfordleader.ie/news/ballymahon/482835/ballymahon-md-to-receive-6-out-of-12-high-speed-broadband-access-points-in-longford.html

Ms Collins informed councillors that six of the sites would be located in Ballymahon MD, with four in Granard and the remaining two in Longford MD. The council have been advised to keep the identity of these sites quiet for the interim.

Maybe I'm being naive but this scheme is supposedly independent of the NBP. It might cause some embarrassment if someone looked for the detail of the proposals from Longford CoCo.

clohamon

The Cush wrote: »

In the SBP - Imagine says it can provide NBP homes with wireless broadband

Apparently DCCAE weren't very helpful.
https://twitter.com/peterodwyer1/status/1180781625556262912

tsue921i8wljb3

Former enet CEO has his say!

https://twitter.com/conalhenry/status/1180883511479296002?s=20

Marlow

clohamon wrote: »

You could buy an ECAD licence (€180) for a year. That would give you coordinates for all the eircodes. Then you could find which ones are inside Imagine's "coverage" map.

Whether you could publish this data is another matter. And then there's the accuracy of Imagine's map to consider, and what they mean by "coverage".

That is 500 eur for the license and 180 eur per seat. PER YEAR. Plus VAT. And you can not publish the data. Only look up against it.

/M

Marlow

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Why would the WISPS believe that there should be only one infrastructure for broadband in rural areas, whereas there are often several in urban areas?

Premises only get removed IF 2 independant providers cover that particular premise with NGA speeds. And yes .. that is 30 Mbit/s now and 100 Mbit/s by 2025.

This is exactly what I hinted that the last round of data submission by the department will cause.

/M

recyclebin

Marlow wrote: »

Premises only get removed IF 2 independant providers cover that particular premise with NGA speeds. And yes .. that is 30 Mbit/s now and 100 Mbit/s by 2025.

This is exactly what I hinted that the last round of data submission by the department will cause.

/M

They don't meet the 30 Mbit/s requirement now so should be told to go cry to courts and see how far they get with their lies and false advertising!

allanpkr

100mb by 2025, yep sounds like a plan stifle irelands growth in rural ireland.

celticbhoy27

recyclebin wrote: »

They don't meet the 30 Mbit/s requirement now so should be told to go cry to courts and see how far they get with their lies and false advertising!

Be more delays if they did go to to court though. Don't want that scenario

clohamon

Marlow wrote: »

Premises only get removed IF 2 independant providers cover that particular premise with NGA speeds.

The Eircom 300K did not meet that standard as there was only one provider. Nonetheless it was removed from the map.

How NGA areas are assessed is in Section 3.3 of the SAG. (NB "grey" areas). Wireless networks also include an assessment of provisioning.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:C:2013:025:0001:0026:EN:PDF

Marlow wrote: »

And yes .. that is 30 Mbit/s now and 100 Mbit/s by 2025.

The minimum targets referenced in the SAG (NGA-30Mb/s) are from the European Parliament's 'Digital Agenda for Europe' and pre-date 2009. They were updated in 2016 by "The Gigabit Communication" which is strongly referenced in all state aid decisions since 2017.
https://ec.europa.eu/transparency/regdoc/rep/1/2016/EN/1-2016-587-EN-F1-1.PDF (see section 3.3)

Strategic objective for 2025: All European households, rural or urban, will have access to Internet connectivity offering a downlink of at least 100 Mbps, upgradable to Gigabit speed.

Presumably Imagine have received legal advice if they intend to persist with their "challenge". They might argue that there is a difference between the standard required for the state intervention, and that required for removal from the map - we'll see. IMHO they'll fail on provisioning, reliability, and credibility.

Marlow wrote: »

This is exactly what I hinted that the last round of data submission by the department will cause.

What will be caused ?

recyclebin

celticbhoy27 wrote: »

Be more delays if they did go to to court though. Don't want that scenario

I don't think they would go to court though. Too much to lose. I'd just call there bluff.

Johnboy1951

Future Headlines:

NBP abandoned because Imagine won their challenge in court case

OK, now try selling Imagine services in rural Ireland to anyone who has an alternative available!

ednwireland

The Cush wrote: »

In the SBP - Imagine says it can provide NBP homes with wireless broadband

it cant even provide me with coverage in an area its supposed to have coverage because i cant see its "(not so) high site" several km away from my house!

going to have to look into patching a wireless link to the neighbours house at the top of the hill

Orebro

Marlow wrote: »

Premises only get removed IF 2 independant providers cover that particular premise with NGA speeds. And yes .. that is 30 Mbit/s now and 100 Mbit/s by 2025.

This is exactly what I hinted that the last round of data submission by the department will cause.

/M

Let’s have a bit of goddam ambition in this country for a change - we want to be a full fibre gigabit society, not a patchwork quilt of WISPs supplying highly questionable services to the country.

allanpkr

Orebro wrote: »

Let’s have a bit of goddam ambition in this country for a change - we want to be a full fibre gigabit society, not a patchwork quilt of WISPs supplying highly questionable services to the country.

totally agree, its like we are saying we dont need what rest of world have , to be sure were not on there level . we are just a simple people from good auld ireland.

tsue921i8wljb3

https://twitter.com/adrianweckler/status/1181588504557559809

The Cush

He goes on to add ...

If so, will be interesting to see if any actual legal challenge forthcoming — Imagine has consistently said it will not legally challenge NBP rollout, even if it connects homes in rural areas where it claims to have its own infrastructure. If NBP fires ahead, will it stick to it?

https://twitter.com/adrianweckler/status/1181589623107182593

Comms Minister Richard Bruton now adds he is “confident” about clearing this hurdle — based on criteria being that the broadband is “high quality” and “future-proofed”, not just a signal.
But admits that intervention rural map could change; says NBP contract provides for this.

https://twitter.com/adrianweckler/status/1181592695992733696