NBP part II

KOR101

Indeed.....

NJJ endorsed the decision to quit NBP. If anything, says Lennon, the French saw the project as an unwelcome distraction.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/eir-boss-carolan-lennon-is-dialled-in-and-bringing-a-buzz-to-the-once-struggling-company-qwrn63bz2

celticbhoy27

KOR101 wrote: »

Indeed.....

NJJ endorsed the decision to quit NBP. If anything, says Lennon, the French saw the project as an unwelcome distraction.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/eir-boss-carolan-lennon-is-dialled-in-and-bringing-a-buzz-to-the-once-struggling-company-qwrn63bz2

Any chance someone could copy and paste the article? Have to be a member to read it

clohamon

KOR101 wrote: »

Indeed.....

NJJ endorsed the decision to quit NBP. If anything, says Lennon, the French saw the project as an unwelcome distraction.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/eir-boss-carolan-lennon-is-dialled-in-and-bringing-a-buzz-to-the-once-struggling-company-qwrn63bz2

Indeedy do.

"Unwelcome distraction" was what everybody else thought of the July 2019 '€1Bn' proposal ?

The Cush

clohamon wrote: »

RedC are currently doing polling for somebody on the following questions.

1. Should Government sign contract on "€3Bn NBP in the next few weeks"?
2. Should the Government call an election in November after Brexit?
3. Should Lisa Smith and child be brought back to Ireland?

Preliminary questions:

What county are you in ?
Are you likely to vote ?
Who did you vote for in Local elections 2019 ?
Who did you vote for in General Election 2016 ?
No of dependent children, education etc, etc.

I'm thinking it might be FG private polling.

SBP/Red C poll in the SBP today. Four questions asked after the usual first preference voting intention Oct 2019.

- The government should sign off the €3bn contract to provide broadband to rural Ireland in the coming weeks - 64% agree, 28% disagree, 8% unsure
- There should be an election in November if there is a Brexit deal in the next 1-2 weeks - 50% disagree, 43% agree, 7% unsure
- Lisa Smith, the former Irish soldier who became a supporter of Islamic State, currently in Syria with her child, should be brought home to Ireland by the government - 48% disagree, 40% agree, 12% unsure
- Following the €6 increase in the carbon tax to €26 per tonne in the recent budget, I would support a series of further similar increases each year to reach a target of €80 by 2030 - 49% agree, 44% disagree, 7% unsure

Red C random 1,000 adult sample interviewed by telephone (50% landline - 50% mobile) between Thursday 17th - Thursday 24th October

Broadband Contract

The cabinet is expected soon to be asked to sign off on the €3 billion national broadband contract to bring high-speed internet access to 1.1 million people who do not have it.

The government has had to defend the project, with Department of Public expenditure secretary general Robert Watt questioning whether it represents value for money. And last week, a majority of TDs voted in favour of a Labour Party motion calling for the network to be kept in state ownership rather than given to the Granahan McCourt consortium 64% in favour of it. Just 28% were opposed while 8% said they did not know.

While most of the households who will benefit are located outside Dublin, there is still strong support for signing it in the capital (60%), with higher support in Connacht/Ulster (61%), the rest of Leinster (67%) and Munster (68%).

There is more support for signing the contract amongst women (67%) than men (61%) and among better-off voters (63%) than the least well-off voters (58%).

tsue921i8wljb3

In addition to the poll I see that the SBP continue their negative coverage in relation to the NBP. I have not read the full article but from the headline I'm guessing it is not positive.

https://www.businesspost.ie/news/state-cant-go-broadband-plan-current-form-455743

The Cush

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

In addition to the poll I see that the SBP continue their negative coverage in relation to the NBP. I have not read the full article but from the headline I'm guessing it is not positive.

https://www.businesspost.ie/news/state-cant-go-broadband-plan-current-form-455743

An editorial piece following on from the Red C poll, as you say not a positive one for the current process even though the poll shows the is broad public support for the signing of the contract. I'll quote the last paragraph of the editorial and will try to post a pic or scan of the whole piece tomorrow.

Our poll this weekend shows people's (rightful) frustration with the political process around the NBP, so it will take a brave politician to decide to add yet more delays to redraw the plan. However, given the difficulties the broadband plan has already faced, the costs associated, and the shift in the market, this is precisely what must happen.

Mortelaro

What shift in the market?

user1842

Mortelaro wrote: »

What shift in the market?

Obviously the shift towards the magical mystical world of 5G, full of unicorns, daisies, Leprechauns and bull**** :rolleyes:

The Cush

The Cush wrote: »

Jack Chambers takes over from Timmy as FF Communications spokesman "for the foreseeable".

Timmy was re-elected last week as one of six vice-presidents of the Alde Group, which is Fianna Fail’s affiliated political grouping in the European Parliament.

In a letter sent to the secretary general of the Alde Group Jacob Moroza Rasmussen days before the voting controversy emerged, Mr Martin praised Mr Dooley for his service to the political group.

“I know that, if re-elected, Timmy will redouble his efforts and to everything possible to help parties as they seek to grow and meet the serious challenges of securing a reformed Europe based on inclusive growth and the rule of law,” Mr Martin wrote.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/fianna-fil-td-at-centre-of-votegate-controversy-lands-prestigious-european-role-38633102.html

clohamon

The Cush wrote: »

An editorial piece following on from the Red C poll, as you say not a positive one for the current process even though the poll shows there is broad public support for the signing of the contract. I'll quote the last paragraph of the editorial and will try to post a pic or scan of the whole piece tomorrow.

Our poll this weekend shows people's (rightful) frustration with the political process around the NBP, so it will take a brave politician to decide to add yet more delays to redraw the plan. However, given the difficulties the broadband plan has already faced, the costs associated, and the shift in the market, this is precisely what must happen.

I took part in this poll and I was never asked whether I was frustrated with the political process around the NBP.

Pique

The Cush wrote: »

SBP/Red C poll in the SBP today. Four questions asked after the usual first preference voting intention Oct 2019.

- The government should sign off the €3bn contract to provide broadband to rural Ireland in the coming weeks - 64% agree, 28% disagree, 8% unsure

Consistent with the poll back in April. Basically nothing in the public opinion has changed in the last 6 months. That should be a good indicator in govt to keep going.

ArrBee

Mortelaro wrote: »

What shift in the market?

Was exactly my thought too

tsue921i8wljb3

The poor state of primary school access to broadband has been revealed by the Irish Mirror.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/education/almost-six-every-10-irish-20743494

Messer1

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

The poor state of primary school access to broadband has been revealed by the Irish Mirror.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/education/almost-six-every-10-irish-20743494

And here https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/broadband-speeds-too-low-in-most-primary-schools-1.4065186

ednwireland

In contrast, Scoil Íosagáin in Limerick city enjoys one of the fastest connections of any school in the Republic with 300Mbps.

seriously, that is a joke potentialy hundreds of users and one of the fastest connections is 300mbps. "enjoys" yeh right should be on gigabit at least.

Marlow

So,

with the extension of Brexit to the 31. January 2020, I guess the date for signing the NBP will be moved into the next year ... just to keep it in line with what current poltics have dictated so far

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit-countdown/2019/1028/1086033-brexit-extension-approve/

ednwireland wrote: »

seriously, that is a joke potentialy hundreds of users and one of the fastest connections is 300mbps. "enjoys" yeh right should be on gigabit at least.

Most 2nd level schools actually have that or even 10 Gbit/s. And uncontended at that in many cases. The issue is not the connectivity there. The issue is, that the routers, that have been bought for these schools predate these connections and are not able to pass the traffic CPU wise, that the schools actually have access to.

That being said .. there are lots of rural schools still on satellite broadband.

Either way .. schools broadband will not receive improved connectivity from the NBP nor did it receive improved connectivity from OpenEIRs 300k rollout.

Schools broadband is determined by the Schools Broadband tender .. and that is not due to be renewed for a few years.

/M

ArrBee

Marlow wrote: »

So,



Either way .. schools broadband will not receive improved connectivity from the NBP nor did it receive improved connectivity from OpenEIRs 300k rollout.

Schools broadband is determined by the Schools Broadband tender .. and that is not due to be renewed for a few years.

/M

If that is true, is it also true for schools next to a comercial offering?
i.e. are schools compelled to be supplied by the schools broadband tender process?

The primary school up from where I live has Eir fiber right outside the gate so I am curious if they are allowed to access it.

Marlow

ArrBee wrote: »

If that is true, is it also true for schools next to a comercial offering?
i.e. are schools compelled to be supplied by the schools broadband tender process?

The primary school up from where I live has Eir fiber right outside the gate so I am curious if they are allowed to access it.

Correct.

Broadband for schools has to be obtained through Heanet as part of the schools tender and is delivered under whatever was/is available under that tender. Even if the circumstances may have changed.

If a school decides to take up broadband by other means (which some do), then they have to pay for that out of their own budget and can not use state funds.

/M

smelly sock

Marlow wrote: »

Correct.

Broadband for schools has to be obtained through Heanet as part of the schools tender and is delivered under whatever was/is available under that tender. Even if the circumstances may have changed.

If a school decides to take up broadband by other means (which some do), then they have to pay for that out of their own budget and can not use state funds.

/M

Not really an issue if Siro or Efibre becomes available as it is so cheap.

Marlow

smelly sock wrote: »

Not really an issue if Siro or Efibre becomes available as it is so cheap.

It is. Because these schools don't have the budget to pay for it outside of bounds. And it also violates other requirements.

The connections via Heanet are managed and firewalled by Heanet. A school would need their own IT contract or personel, to manage a connection outside of that. That's an additional cost. And they might be in trouble, if they make it available to pupils.

Just looking at the cost of SIRO or an OpenEIR based fibre connection is very shortsighted thinking. Why do you think the schools that have a Gbit/s or 10 Gbit/s connection don't have the gear to utilize it ? Lack of budget. And restrictions.

/M

smelly sock

Marlow wrote: »

It is. Because these schools don't have the budget to pay for it outside of bounds. And it also violates other requirements.

The connections via Heanet are managed and firewalled by Heanet. A school would need their own IT contract or personel, to manage a connection outside of that. That's an additional cost. And they might be in trouble, if they make it available to pupils.

Just looking at the cost of SIRO or an OpenEIR based fibre connection is very shortsighted thinking. Why do you think the schools that have a Gbit/s or 10 Gbit/s connection don't have the gear to utilize it ? Lack of budget. And restrictions.

/M

How much does and onsite juniper srx 345 cost with support from the like of kedingtons or ward cost for per year. Its not astronomical i can assure you of that. Content filtering and vpns also available do agree though much easier amd cost effective to use frameworks in place currently.

Marlow

smelly sock wrote: »

How much does and onsite juniper srx 345 cost with support from the like of kedingtons or ward cost for per year. Its not astronomical i can assure you of that. Content filtering and vpns also available do agree though much easier amd cost effective to use frameworks in place currently.

You are omitting the evident issue here: if a school puts in place broadband and filtering outside of the scope of Heanet, they
- become responsible for the maintenance of said connection.
- they can not use any of the state funds allocated to them, for this connection or it's upkeep.
- they become responsible for the filtering of the content
- they will have to source the funds through donations of parents and other means.

70 EUR/month for a business connection is already too much for most schools, that I've had dealings with. Let alone buying the router and paying an IT contract to service the gear. The money for this has to come out of their coffee pot.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

Marlow wrote: »

So,

with the extension of Brexit to the 31. January 2020, I guess the date for signing the NBP will be moved into the next year ... just to keep it in line with what current poltics have dictated so far

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit-countdown/2019/1028/1086033-brexit-extension-approve/



Most 2nd level schools actually have that or even 10 Gbit/s. And uncontended at that in many cases. The issue is not the connectivity there. The issue is, that the routers, that have been bought for these schools predate these connections and are not able to pass the traffic CPU wise, that the schools actually have access to.

That being said .. there are lots of rural schools still on satellite broadband.

Either way .. schools broadband will not receive improved connectivity from the NBP nor did it receive improved connectivity from OpenEIRs 300k rollout.

Schools broadband is determined by the Schools Broadband tender .. and that is not due to be renewed for a few years.

/M

The Minister for Education disagrees with your opinion that the NBP will not improve school connectivity.

https://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Press-Releases/2019-press-releases/PR19-05-07.html

Plus 87 broadband connection points are planned for primary schools in amber areas.

Marlow

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

The Minister for Education disagrees with your opinion that the NBP will not improve school connectivity.

https://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Press-Releases/2019-press-releases/PR19-05-07.html

Plus 87 broadband connection points are planned for primary schools in amber areas.

He is not wrong, but even he refers to the Schools Broadband Program. And the issue there is, that they'd need to re-tender first, before they can access these connections. That'll be another few years after the NBP.

The schools will not get them automatically.

Matter of fact, I've seen a lot of cases, where it nearly looks deliberate, that OpenEIR has left schools out of the 300k rollout. While 100m up and down the road, the 300k has been rolled out.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

Marlow wrote: »

He is not wrong, but even he refers to the Schools Broadband Program. And the issue there is, that they'd need to re-tender first, before they can access these connections. That'll be another few years after the NBP.

The schools will not get them automatically.

Matter of fact, I've seen a lot of cases, where it nearly looks deliberate, that OpenEIR has left schools out of the 300k rollout. While 100m up and down the road, the 300k has been rolled out.

I also know of schools that still are on satellite, even though OpenEIR FTTH or VDSL is available. Schools broadband restrictions again.

/M

I'm not sure if you read the article but this would seem to disagree with your above points.

The Primary Programme is based on available industry provision, and the best quality connectivity to all schools in line with the technical solutions available in the market and financial constraints, is provided. Currently broadband capacity varies due to geographical location and local infrastructure, and thus impact on the service that can be provided.

Under the current primary schools programme the Department continually reviews the availability of services and upgrades schools where the opportunity arises. Some 1,400 primary schools are currently on download speeds of 30Mbps or greater (the baseline download speed required under the current National Broadband Plan) – with many on speeds greatly in excess of that. This is a significant improvement over recent years, given that less than 100 primary schools were on those speeds in 2012. Further schools are likely to be upgraded to those speeds in 2019 and beyond, through EIR's 300K Rural Deployment commitment.

Marlow

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

I'm not sure if you read the article but this would seem to disagree with your above points.

I can only tell you what the reality is. And the reality is, that there are schools, that can avail of VDSL or OpenEIR FTTH and have not got this .. because it is not covered by the current tender and/or the provider that was awarded the service to this school does not provide service on said platform.

As I pointed out above, due to it being provided for under the Schools Broadband Program, a change in provider requires a re-tender.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

Marlow wrote: »

I can only tell you what the reality is. And the reality is, that there are schools, that can avail of VDSL or OpenEIR FTTH and have not got this .. because it is not covered by the current tender and/or the provider that was awarded the service to this school does not provide service on said platform.

As I pointed out above, due to it being provided for under the Schools Broadband Program, a change in provider requires a re-tender.

So for the NBP covered schools, it would require, that either the provider that is giving them service now is on the NBP platform and agrees to change media/platform under the current tender or a new tender for the schools broadband is done. It is a contractual issue.

/M

I'm sure the Department will have any contractual issues sorted. It's funny that they are managing to put 87 BCPs into primary schools without contractual issues. But anyway, your contention that the NBP will not improve school connectivity has been proven wrong.

Marlow

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

But anyway, your contention that the NBP will not improve school connectivity has been proven wrong.

It won't, Unless they get those contracts sorted. The 300k has been around since 2016 and there is still schools that are covered by it and not connected to it. That's over 3 years.

And that is exactly my point. The NBP alone won't fix the remaining ones. It will be a foundation step needed, but it certainly isn't the key issue when it comes to schools broadband.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

Marlow wrote: »

It won't, Unless they get those contracts sorted. The 300k has been around since 2016 and there is still schools that are covered by it and not connected to it. That's over 3 years.

And that is exactly my point. The NBP alone won't fix the remaining ones. It will be a foundation step needed, but it certainly isn't the key issue when it comes to schools broadband.

/M

I completely disagree. It's a state project, not comparable with the privately funded 300k and the schools are State entities. Do you honestly believe they are going to spend billions and leave schools on satellite broadband?

listermint

Marlow wrote: »

It is. Because these schools don't have the budget to pay for it outside of bounds. And it also violates other requirements.

The connections via Heanet are managed and firewalled by Heanet. A school would need their own IT contract or personel, to manage a connection outside of that. That's an additional cost. And they might be in trouble, if they make it available to pupils.

Just looking at the cost of SIRO or an OpenEIR based fibre connection is very shortsighted thinking. Why do you think the schools that have a Gbit/s or 10 Gbit/s connection don't have the gear to utilize it ? Lack of budget. And restrictions.

/M

You opened with this bit, but then quickly realised that under the NBP their budget wouldnt come into play for the connections. So added in heanet.

I think even you would agree that if NBP was rolled out next month those schools would have their connections upgraded within the month.

Any other pretend outcome is you playing shenanigans again.


Budget conditions imposed today are solely down to the limitations of their overpriced providers. Who we would see would be lost if the NBP came into being.