NBP part II

clohamon

Marlow wrote: »

I
And all I outlined was, how detailed the submission had to be to confirm it's credibility.


/M

Are you saying that submissions on coverage were made to the department without disclosing the locations of the antennae ?

Marlow

westyIrl wrote: »

I think what we're getting at Marlow is that while data has been submitted there is nothing there to verify the coverage claims so unless the DCCAE check on the ground, premises could be stated as covered by an operator where in fact they may not be covered at all.

Correct. But that was the same with OpenEIRs data. Until VDSL lines actually were connected and it turned out, that they weren't capable of at least 30 Mbit/s.

They had to be subsquently then be flagged for NBP.

Not any different there.

clohamon wrote: »

Are you saying that submissions on coverage were made to the department without disclosing the locations of the antennae ?

That's often commercially sensitive data. Yes. Nor was it a requirement for the data submission.

/M

Gary kk

Sounds like they are sending in complete waffle with a nice colourful map of Ireland. Sure i guess if the maps are as detailed as is made out maybe the department can use it to prospect for natural resources.

clohamon

Marlow wrote: »

That's often commercially sensitive data. Yes. Nor was it a requirement for the data submission.

/M

The “Criteria for assessment of investment plans” seem to require the following information. (page 18 - Wireless Platforms)

“c. site coordinates and projection system”

Gary kk

clohamon wrote: »

The “Criteria for assessment of investment plans” seem to require the following information. (page 18 - Wireless Platforms)

Thanks for sharing. Makes my above post silly. But a least there is some light reading in it.

Marlow did you know this was available to share.

theguzman

It is all smoke and mirror and stalling tactics, I know one Wisp a very small operation who is raking upto €50-€100k per month after taxes a small operation with minimum staffing basically lads fitting antennas on chimney's etc.

Eir's 300k rural FTTH rollout is now costing them thousands as people move over to superior fibre; my cousin is a customer and I have seen it working in his house; 5mb service which does not work in peak times. He can now travel home from University to his rural homeplace and do study and work as the for the first time in his life he has a proper internet connection. This was an area where EIR never enabled the local exchange for any type of DSL and they had Vodafone 3G before the local wisp and 3G or Mobile as we all know is utter slurry.

The wisps made monstrous profits and want to hold rural Ireland hostage to their sh1t service for as long as possible, then when you see cretins like Tooley from the corrupt Zanu-FF party advocating to stop progress you know it all about money. I'd gladly pay my money to a foreign multinational for FTTH than one of these wisp snake-oil salesmen.

Nyum Nyum

Nyum Nyum wrote: »

This is never going to happen, is it?

This is still never going to happen, is it?

Gonzo

The Cush wrote: »

Not happening today

It was going to be announced at the ploughing then got moved to this week, now this week ain't happening. I doubt it will happen now before Christmas. This time around we can thank Imagine and the wisps.

dashoonage

Meanwhile they are signing people daily into 24 month contracts.

Dont hate the player hate the game.

Tis just business lads.

Marlow

Gonzo wrote: »

It was going to be announced at the ploughing then got moved to this week, now this week ain't happening. I doubt it will happen now before Christmas. This time around we can thank Imagine and the wisps.

Hardly, when the state aid issue wasn't even processed through the European Commission,yet.

That job hadn't been done yet .... disregardless of the last call for data ... which is part of that process.

So no ... you can thank the department for not being on the ball. That's all.

It was actually shovels in the ground September last year, then December, then Easter, then the ploughing and so on. This is purely the politicians announcing unreasonable and unrealistic timelines, while the department doesn't get the job done. Nothing to do with outside input. Outside input is necessary for a complete picture.

/M

Gary kk

Marlow wrote: »

Hardly, when the state aid issue wasn't even processed through the European Commission,yet.

That job hadn't been done yet .... disregardless of the last call for data ... which is part of that process.

So no ... you can thank the department for not being on the ball. That's all.

It was actually shovels in the ground September last year, then December, then Easter, then the ploughing and so on. This is purely the politicians announcing unreasonable and unrealistic timelines, while the department doesn't get the job done. Nothing to do with outside input. Outside input is necessary for a complete picture.

/M

Yeah maybe we could just blame the the department. But i am pretty sure some wisp not all now just some are trying thier best to derail the project.

Again did you know the link shared earlier today was available.

Marlow

Gary kk wrote: »

Yeah maybe we could just blame the the department. But i am pretty sure some wisp not all now just some are trying thier best to derail the project.

Even Varadkar tried to blame Imagine for the delay on this particular instance and fell pretty hefty on his nose for trying.

That tells you how much the providers are at fault in this instance and how much the department and the ministers are at fault.

Gary kk wrote: »

Again did you know the link shared earlier today was available.

No. That document is from 2015 on top of that and is not the document, that was used for the data submitted in this instance. Also .. the data called for was existing rollout and planned rollout. The document above is for planned rollout only. Each of them are treated differently and has to be vetted differently.

The data that has put the department in trouble is the actual existing rollout, that they didn't have calculated for.

/M

Gary kk

Marlow wrote: »

Even Varadkar tried to blame Imagine for the delay on this particular instance and fell pretty hefty on his nose for trying.

That tells you how much the providers are at fault in this instance and how much the department and the ministers are at fault.



No. That document is from 2015 on top of that and is not the document, that was used for the data submitted in this instance. Also .. the data called for was existing rollout and planned rollout. The document above is for planned rollout only. Each of them are treated differently and has to be vetted differently.

The data that has put the department in trouble is the actual existing rollout, that they didn't have calculated for.

/M

Cool thanks for the answer by chance do you know where the other doc can seen or read

allanpkr

after all this ix over in say 8years , and all of irlland hhas ftth. who wouldnt be happy??

ArrBee

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

How are the DCCAE meant to evaluate the claims that these products meet NGA? Do they take the ISP at their word or have they some form of monitoring?

They spend 4b going to each house and testing it shure.

clohamon

Marlow wrote: »

No. That document is from 2015 on top of that and is not the document, that was used for the data submitted in this instance. Also .. the data called for was existing rollout and planned rollout. The document above is for planned rollout only. Each of them are treated differently and has to be vetted differently.

The data that has put the department in trouble is the actual existing rollout, that they didn't have calculated for.

/M

That document (from 2015) is linked at the bottom of the Departments announcement of the most recent mapping consultation dated 7th May 2019.

"Annex 1 Assessment Criteria"

https://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/communications/consultations/Pages/Conclusion-of-NBP-Mapping-Exercise.aspx

There is an earlier document on making changes to the map.
“High Speed Broadband Map Supplementary Information Request ” dated 27th March 2015. The criteria are the same.

https://www.dccae.gov.ie/documents/SupplementaryInformationRequest.pdf

Is there another document?

ArrBee

Marlow wrote: »

I only can give insight into the portion of the data that I have seen.

That portion would have been mapped using satellite data by an acknowleged consultancy, based on power levels, tech, frequency etc. and the results would have been produced in the form of premises passed based on eircodes or GPS coordinates.

The same consultancy company would have produces the data for similar government calls for data in the UK and using the same principles and thus can prove a track record on it's accuracy.

The data has to be accomodated by financial statements for future builds and sources of funding for such.

It is afterwards up to the DCCAE to follow up on that dataset .. ... which is the current call for updates.

From there on in, it is the DCCAE's responsibility to deal with the data, that they have been provided with. If they have to get an external consultant in to review the data and verify, that it is valid, then I don't see them signing the contract tomorrow. Nor do I expect them to get the EU to sign for EU aid on the project without such data.

The fact is, that because of the completeness of the data, it can not be ignored. Most likely the reason for the political trying to kick the bucket on at the moment.

/M

Interesting insight.
Thanks.

ArrBee

As others have hinted.... I still think Eir have a hand to play in this process.....

Gonzo

ArrBee wrote: »

As others have hinted.... I still think Eir have a hand to play in this process.....

This may not be a popular opinion but IF OpenEir decided to just plough ahead and fill in the gaps and continue to rollout as far as they can go in rural areas, we would probably get there much quicker while the NBP continues to get kicked down the road. They have the expertise, manpower and a proven record. I doubt that will happen tho as they are now beginning their urban rollout which is a massive undertaking in itself.

user1842

Gonzo wrote: »

This may not be a popular opinion but IF OpenEir decided to just plough ahead and fill in the gaps and continue to rollout as far as they can go in rural areas, we would probably get there much quicker while the NBP continues to get kicked down the road. They have the expertise, manpower and a proven record. I doubt that will happen tho as they are now beginning their urban rollout which is a massive undertaking in itself.

I think this currently is a very popular opinion and im no fan of Eir.

allanpkr

am i right in thinking if eir bring ftth i can then use any supplier i want for broadband?

celticbhoy27

user1842 wrote: »

I think this currently is a very popular opinion and im no fan of Eir.

Ideal scenario tbh

Johnboy1951

allanpkr wrote: »

am i right in thinking if eir bring ftth i can then use any supplier i want for broadband?

Yes, any of those who provide service in your location.

Johnboy1951

Gonzo wrote: »

This may not be a popular opinion but IF OpenEir decided to just plough ahead and fill in the gaps and continue to rollout as far as they can go in rural areas, we would probably get there much quicker while the NBP continues to get kicked down the road. They have the expertise, manpower and a proven record. I doubt that will happen tho as they are now beginning their urban rollout which is a massive undertaking in itself.

As I posted back a few pages

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111733005&postcount=1146

it might only need a statement of intent from openeir to delay things further.

ArrBee

Gonzo wrote: »

This may not be a popular opinion but IF OpenEir decided to just plough ahead and fill in the gaps and continue to rollout as far as they can go in rural areas, we would probably get there much quicker while the NBP continues to get kicked down the road. They have the expertise, manpower and a proven record. I doubt that will happen tho as they are now beginning their urban rollout which is a massive undertaking in itself.

Personally, I think they have left themselves enough easy to fill holes over the country that they can respond to whatever their competitors are about to do - very quickly.
This puts them in a great place strategically where they don't have to roll out, but they can at the tip of a hat.
I think they will only do it:
-organically when other priorities allow
-as a response to NBP getting the go ahead
-possibly due to the NBP not going ahead and some other player hoovering up share that Eir see as "theirs"

BArra

if the NBP gets the go ahead, would Eir be allowed to suddenly decide to expand their rural rollout?

recyclebin

Why would Eir roll out further into rural parts though? They get to rent their poles for years and years under the NBP. Handy money.

Johnboy1951

BArra wrote: »

if the NBP gets the go ahead, would Eir be allowed to suddenly decide to expand their rural rollout?

How does one prevent any company from expanding their service?
Why should that even be possible?

ArrBee

recyclebin wrote: »

Why would Eir roll out further into rural parts though? They get to rent their poles for years and years under the NBP. Handy money.

I dont think they are mutually exclusive...

If the NBP goes ahead that rental will happen regardless.
If Eir then decide to expand the only loser will be NBI + Tax payer I guess..
Not Eir anyway

tsue921i8wljb3

ArrBee wrote: »

I dont think they are mutually exclusive...

If the NBP goes ahead that rental will happen regardless.
If Eir then decide to expand the only loser will be NBI + Tax payer I guess..
Not Eir anyway

It would cut into the rental as it is calculated on the amount of cables per pole. However I think we have seen from their intervention where they claimed that they could complete the project for less than NBI, that the rental money is not that important to them. I'm not even sure that they make that much on it.