NBP part II

irishfeen

celticbhoy27 wrote: »

Anybody else feel these hubs are a waste of a years rollout?

I presume the hubs will be laying the groundwork (basically connecting to the fibre network) for the entire network.

Orebro

celticbhoy27 wrote: »

Anybody else feel these hubs are a waste of a years rollout?

Plenty of kids around the country without broadband - now they’ll have a safe environment to go to instead of hanging around Starbucks or the local shopping center car park to get their work done. I’m all for these hubs, great idea and I really don’t think they’re going to be a draw on the NBP resources.

ussjtrunks

The hubs will surely be starting points to ease into building out the network, they will be great for children who currently have awful internet or no access at all.

tsue921i8wljb3

celticbhoy27 wrote: »

Anybody else feel these hubs are a waste of a years rollout?

There is a significant chance that a lot of these hubs will be fed by wireless and will be farmed out to a third-party contractor to build while NBIs contractors start their own network.

irishfeen

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

There is a significant chance that a lot of these hubs will be fed by wireless and will be farmed out to a third-party contractor to build while NBIs contractors start their own network.

Where would they back feed the hubs from though? Not everywhere will be able to feed from local masts.

KOR101

In a world where everyone has a fibre line to their home, the hubs are just a short term gimmick while they build out some basic network infrastructure.

tsue921i8wljb3

irishfeen wrote: »

Where would they back feed the hubs from though? Not everywhere will be able to feed from local masts.

Perhaps some of them will use open eir fibre as some are within metres of it. I can't foresee them using "NBI" fibre.

theguzman

KOR101 wrote: »

In a world where everyone has a fibre line to their home, the hubs are just a short term gimmick while they build out some basic network infrastructure.

PR and a release valve for the absolute frustration people face daily until the network is built. If they are wirlessly fed then they won't be of much use as the maximum transmission is maybe 100-200mbs on a 2.4Ghz or 5.8Ghz link and that is before you encounter channel intereference from the numerous calving camera's systems and ad-hoc pirate systems which are running around the place, with lads beaming broadband from their cousins house a few miles away back to themselves etc.

I see my nearest hub will be over 25km away from myself. That church is still 5km away from the end of the EIR FTTH cable and there will be many houses along that road in need of connectivity. EIR's 300k roll-out has seen the fibre run 7km's from the exchange to where it ends. Will NBI have to duplicate this 7km of fibre or can they simply connect to the end of where EIR's fibre finishes?

tsue921i8wljb3

theguzman wrote: »

PR and a release valve for the absolute frustration people face daily until the network is built. If they are wirlessly fed then they won't be of much use as the maximum transmission is maybe 100-200mbs on a 2.4Ghz or 5.8Ghz link and that is before you encounter channel intereference from the numerous calving camera's systems and ad-hoc pirate systems which are running around the place, with lads beaming broadband from their cousins house a few miles away back to themselves etc.

I see my nearest hub will be over 25km away from myself. That church is still 5km away from the end of the EIR FTTH cable and there will be many houses along that road in need of connectivity. EIR's 300k roll-out has seen the fibre run 7km's from the exchange to where it ends. Will NBI have to duplicate this 7km of fibre or can they simply connect to the end of where EIR's fibre finishes?

Duplicate. They chose not to use existing cable.

irishfeen

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

Perhaps some of them will use open eir fibre as some are within metres of it. I can't foresee them using "NBI" fibre.

So we can basically take it that these hubs are very much filler material and 2020 will mostly be used for planning the network and signing the required deals with subcontractors for full throttle into Q4 2020 and beyond.

It’s hard to blame them either as designing this will be very complex and difficult, I think we could see the NBI basically extending out Eir’s FTTH network as much as possible to begin with. Going when a few Km’s past eir’s network will garner thousands and thousands of premises.

theguzman

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/3bn-rural-broadband-plan-could-face-legal-challenge-965260.html

Fianna Fail and their crony charlatan WISP's are threatening of a legal challenge, I hope their solicitors and lawyers bankrupt them if they have the absolute audacity to try such a move.

Pique

theguzman wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/3bn-rural-broadband-plan-could-face-legal-challenge-965260.html

Fianna Fail and their crony charlatan WISP's are threatening of a legal challenge, I hope their solicitors and lawyers bankrupt them if they have the absolute audacity to try such a move.

Overall, the final cost for the project will be €5bn, with the McCourt consortium investing an extra €2bn into the services.

Where did this €5bn come from? I've never seen an overall cost for this project before?

allanpkr

i hate journalists who just to get a story, make fake news.

irishfeen

theguzman wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/3bn-rural-broadband-plan-could-face-legal-challenge-965260.html

Fianna Fail and their crony charlatan WISP's are threatening of a legal challenge, I hope their solicitors and lawyers bankrupt them if they have the absolute audacity to try such a move.

Would be an extraordinary risky move from the WISP’s and they would want to have some very deep pockets.

This has got EU state aid approval, for any Irish court to overturn this and to find fault would be a massive, they would want to have information that would pull down a government don’t mind this process.

tsue921i8wljb3

irishfeen wrote: »

So we can basically take it that these hubs are very much filler material and 2020 will mostly be used for planning the network and signing the required deals with subcontractors for full throttle into Q4 2020 and beyond.

It’s hard to blame them either as designing this will be very complex and difficult, I think we could see the NBI basically extending out Eir’s FTTH network as much as possible to begin with. Going when a few Km’s past eir’s network will garner thousands and thousands of premises.

Sub-contractor agreements are already signed.

NBI has signed seven key subcontracts, including with KN Group, Kelly Group, 4Site, Nokia and Denis O’Brien’s Actavo, which will be responsible for rolling out the fibre network.

It seems 4site will be designing the network for them. It is a significant design challenge though.

Up to 15,000 homes and businesses in these areas will be connected by the third and fourth quarters of next year. Under the terms of the contract, NBI has to be deploying fibre in at least seven counties by end of the next year and all counties by 2021.

tsue921i8wljb3

irishfeen wrote: »

Would be an extraordinary risky move from the WISP’s and they would want to have some very deep pockets.

This has got EU state aid approval, for any Irish court to overturn this and to find fault would be a massive, they would want to have information that would pull down a government don’t mind this process.

Yeah. I can't see it happening to be honest.

It would be an EU court though if it did happen though. Irish courts don't have jurisdiction in these matters.

allanpkr

not happening yet its fake news. they would need to think very hard to do this. other thing is ff would not take govn to court in any circumstances.
eu stated they feel this process opens market to MORE competition.

irishfeen

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

Sub-contractor agreements are already signed.



It seems 4site will be designing the network for them. It is a significant design challenge though.

Have the NBI the right to erect new poles as they see fit? I presume they will have no issues with planning or the likes?

tsue921i8wljb3

irishfeen wrote: »

Have the NBI the right to erect new poles as they see fit? I presume they will have no issues with planning or the likes?

I'm not entirely sure to be honest. At a guess I would say they would need planning, which would likely be fast tracked as it's a State project. I think eir require plans for their poles.

Marlow

KOR101 wrote: »

Yes, I'm still puzzled by Eir's claim that it had identified an additional 80,000 (?) premises that were commercial. They were clearly laying down some sort of marker.

Either way, is anyone still claiming that this will end in tears .......Ed E?.

OpenEIR had identified a lot more premises viable than that. But they had only been given a specific budget and not a cent more, hence why they only expanded by about 30k extra and didn't go for the remainder. Those extra premises were build within the original budget. Carolan Lennon has stated so during various interviews. It is a private rollout and entirely financed by themselves, so nobody can force them.

Either way, nobody can prevent other ISPs (any ISP) to build in the intervention area and this can also still result in removal of premises from the NBP.

So can legal action, if misconduct is shown on how the data submitted to the department was analysed.

/M

westyIrl

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure to be honest. At a guess I would say they would need planning, which would likely be fast tracked as it's a State project. I think eir require plans for their poles.

Very good question. I get a shiver thinking how NBI will be at the mercy of Eir spending money upfront to make poles ready on a tight schedule for NBI, regardless of lease fees. It's just not in Eir's DNA going from my limited experience.

Another question, which probably only NBI have the answer to but in relation to the islands. Will these fall into the 5% wireless category or will there be fiber on some seabeds? Doesn't affect me but I can't help being curious.

Marlow

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure to be honest. At a guess I would say they would need planning, which would likely be fast tracked as it's a State project. I think eir require plans for their poles.

OpenEIR needs to obtain a license for any work done on public land and roads. So apply for license/planning from the CoCo in question, wait for approval, pay your fee, erect your pole or dig your hole, etc.

It's not a quick process for them either. And it very much varies from one County Council to another. Some of them make it near impossible to get any work done.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

Marlow wrote: »

OpenEIR needs to obtain a license for any work done on public land and roads. So apply for license/planning from the CoCo in question, wait for approval, pay your fee, erect your pole or dig your hole, etc.

It's not a quick process for them either. And it very much varies from one County Council to another. Some of them make it near impossible to get any work done.

/M

That's a road opening license though. Does that also cover erection of poles?

Marlow

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

That's a road opening license though. Does that also cover erection of poles?

Pretty much. It is even the case, if you want to lift a flagstone to fix broken ducting. It's just another form of taxation.

/M

tototoe

Pique wrote: »

Where did this €5bn come from? I've never seen an overall cost for this project before?

An interesting question. Is that a new figure?

ussjtrunks

How fast do we realistically expect everyone to be connected, is 7 years a reasonable timeframe or could it be done way sooner or later?

allanpkr

Marlow wrote: »

OpenEIR had identified a lot more premises viable than that. But they had only been given a specific budget and not a cent more, hence why they only expanded by about 30k extra and didn't go for the remainder. Those extra premises were build within the original budget. Carolan Lennon has stated so during various interviews. It is a private rollout and entirely financed by themselves, so nobody can force them.

Either way, nobody can prevent other ISPs (any ISP) to build in the intervention area and this can also still result in removal of premises from the NBP.

So can legal action, if misconduct is shown on how the data submitted to the department was analysed.

/M

the premises that eir are talking about is more than likely close to where they stopped their fibre, and now see it as cheap now nbp has been approved. no legal action is imminent or likely.
if other isps build in intervention area now , of course they can but unless its fibre it wont be removed from map.

tsue921i8wljb3

ussjtrunks wrote: »

How fast do we realistically expect everyone to be connected, is 7 years a reasonable timeframe or could it be done way sooner or later?

It's taken open eir over three years to pass 330000 premises in similar areas so seven for 540000 seems accurate enough.

tsue921i8wljb3

tototoe wrote: »

An interesting question. Is that a new figure?

No, it's definitely not a new figure. It's quoted in this article from June

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/explainer-is-eir-s-1bn-broadband-plan-a-credible-offer-1.3940434

The other €2bn is essentially NBIs part of the deal which I believe they intend to fund through the running of the network, so revenue basically. That's where take up becomes important.

allanpkr

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

No, it's definitely not a new figure. It's quoted in this article from June

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/explainer-is-eir-s-1bn-broadband-plan-a-credible-offer-1.3940434

The other €2bn is essentially NBIs part of the deal which I believe they intend to fund through the running of the network, so revenue basically. That's where take up becomes important.

clouding issue a bit , cost to tax payer is 3bn