NBP part II

tsue921i8wljb3

allanpkr wrote: »

clouding issue a bit , cost to tax payer is 3bn

Someone asked a question in relation to €5bn. I was trying to answer it. What is the actual point of your contributions to this thread?

tototoe

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

Someone asked a question in relation to €5bn. I was trying to answer it. What is the actual point of your contributions to this thread?

Hadnt heard that figure before so asked the q

allanpkr

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

Someone asked a question in relation to €5bn. I was trying to answer it. What is the actual point of your contributions to this thread?

im just saying stating 5bn can make some believe its 5bn to tax payer, i was saying its clouding issue to mention 5 bn no point. its 3 bn to tax payer . if you dont like my contributions dont fecking answer them . and i say fecking but mean ....

ruwithme

What might typically be the connection cost and monthly line rental when this is all rolled out in a rural area?

tsue921i8wljb3

allanpkr wrote: »

im just saying stating 5bn can make some believe its 5bn to tax payer, i was saying its clouding issue to mention 5 bn no point. its 3 bn to tax payer . if you dont like my contributions dont fecking answer them . and i say fecking but mean ....

How does saying €2bn is NBIs contribution makes it sound like the taxpayer is funding it?

Anyway what does it matter. Do you think someone is reading this and saying "navi on boards said it's €5bn, let's cancel it"?

Stop getting your knickers in a twist. The contract is signed.

celticbhoy27

ruwithme wrote: »

What might typically be the connection cost and monthly line rental when this is all rolled out in a rural area?

100 euro connection fee.

allanpkr

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

How does saying €2bn is NBIs contribution makes it sound like the taxpayer is funding it?

Anyway what does it matter. Do you think someone is reading this and saying "Emmanuel Lemon Louse on boards said it's €5bn, let's cancel it"?

Stop getting your knickers in a twist. The contract is signed.

but insaid saying the cost will be 5bn is confusing issue, you got upset.
lol it seems your getting wound up , i just posted my opinion , . if you dont like it reply , but insults??
relax.

tsue921i8wljb3

ruwithme wrote: »

What might typically be the connection cost and monthly line rental when this is all rolled out in a rural area?

€100 connection fee (plus VAT perhaps)

I'd expect €55 - €65 per month for 150Mb/s, but with ISP competition it may be possible to get lower prices.

tsue921i8wljb3

allanpkr wrote: »

lol it seems your getting wound up , i just posted my opinion , . if you dont like it reply , but insults??
relax.

Says the guy who was talking about people's wives a few days ago.

allanpkr

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

Says the guy who was talking about people's wives a few days ago.

yes that was obviously a joke,, you need to lighten up a bit. you seem srressed end of discussion.

theguzman

celticbhoy27 wrote: »

100 euro connection fee.

I'd have paid €1,000 and upto €80 - €100 per month if I could have gotten it anytime in the last 8-10 years. I'd still happily pay a €1,000 connection fee upfront if they could guarantee to get it to me in the next 6 months.

tsue921i8wljb3

allanpkr wrote: »

yes that was obviously a joke,, you need to lighten up a bit. you seem srressed end of discussion.

wow marlow i hope your not married .your poor wife.. your so far up your own ..... its unreal. actually if you put all your quotes together, im sure you will see repetition ..i.e you just dont like the answer..etc etc. its like im marlow whatever i say is totally unbiased , totally correct and the rest of you know nothing.. are you like this at home.........lol

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111714376&postcount=1105

Hilarious :rolleyes:

You are a waste of characters.

Pique

Tbh it would be better if the cost was 10bn and we only pay 2.6bn. That would be the best deal in the history of Irish governments if we pulled that off.

5bn sounds a little bit of a good deal for NBI, if they're 'only' on the hook for 2bn and have 25 years to make a lot more. And the opportunity cost along with some breakthrough in fast long-distance wireless laser comms that can go through trees and around corners in 20 years "might" mean they network is worth zilch in 25 years. I don't believe that but it is a possibility, who knows.

But even to those who are shouting about it being given away and we won't own it (which I wish we did), I have a good hunch that if we were talking about a fully state-funded 5bn plan to "give the culchies Netflix" then it would have been a dead duck.

And I'm now sorry I brought it up in the first place.

allanpkr

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111714376&postcount=1105

Hilarious :rolleyes:

You are a waste of characters.

yes the part about his wife was a joke. but hey if you are going to bed riled up , im so sorry. again . but you really need to get over yourself. but hey if you wont np , cause its freedom of choice . now try to move on. sleep well.

Marlow

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

It's taken open eir over three years to pass 330000 premises in similar areas so seven for 540000 seems accurate enough.

3 1/2 years to be precise. FTTH rollout started Q3/2016. And it builds on the provisioning platform, structures and exchanges for FTTC, which already was in place and well proven by then. Plus that the upgrade for a retail operator to also sell FTTH was i minor re-negotiation, if they already were providing FTTC. Planning of the FTTH rollout predates that, so we can assume, that we're actually talking 4 years.

The planning, platform, provisioning, interconnects, exchanges and core network for NBI all have to be established from scratch with no actual infrastructure to start from. Nevermind, that they have to negotiate with retail operators and those retail operators have to get their connectivity in place to connect to NBIs access network. So that will take them longer. 7-8 years, if not more, is a realistical approach.

Next problem: KN and Actavo staff are already pretty much tied up with OpenEIR and SIRO. Sometimes actually with lengthly waiting times to get installed. It's not uncommon to have to wait 2+ weeks to get SIRO connection.

So ... staff to build NBIs network and access also will not just magically appear. OpenEIR had massive issues with this, when they started out and installation figures were extremely low.

/M

Gary kk

Nbi do say it will be the third year before they really get up to speed

KOR101

While Mr Bruton said the EU had approved the plan last week and ruled out any state aid concerns, a number of commercial operators are believed to be preparing to take a legal challenge over the deal. Their claims are expected to focus on the intervention areas and the fact the state is providing support to a competing operator in those regions.

However, Mr Bruton said the government is prepared for any legal challenge and that the EU had approved the deal.

Fianna Fáil and other parties have warned that other commercial operators are mounting a legal challenge.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/3bn-rural-broadband-plan-could-face-legal-challenge-965260.html

allanpkr

KOR101 wrote: »

While Mr Bruton said the EU had approved the plan last week and ruled out any state aid concerns, a number of commercial operators are believed to be preparing to take a legal challenge over the deal. Their claims are expected to focus on the intervention areas and the fact the state is providing support to a competing operator in those regions.

However, Mr Bruton said the government is prepared for any legal challenge and that the EU had approved the deal.

Fianna Fáil and other parties have warned that other commercial operators are mounting a legal challenge.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/3bn-rural-broadband-plan-could-face-legal-challenge-965260.html

so much due diligence was done by nbp and then eu, i think any legal case brought would struggle to win. however if they were foolhardy to try, i dont think this would delay the build.

BarryM

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

More on the BCPs

https://nbi.ie/broadband-connection-points/

For my area the BCP is shown in one place by the 'broadband officer' and DCCAE and in another place on NBI!!

Pique

BarryM wrote: »

For my area the BCP is shown in one place by the 'broadband officer' and DCCAE and in another place on NBI!!

My nearest one is 7.5km away....as the crow flies, across Lough Ree!

heavydawson

allanpkr wrote: »

so much due diligence was done by nbp and then eu, i think any legal case brought would struggle to win. however if they were foolhardy to try, i dont think this would delay the build.

Given that NBI are acting as a wholesale company, how are they a competitive threat to existing ISPs?
Surely it affords those ISPs an additional product line in terms of offering a fibre product. We've seen this with existing regional WISPs partnering with SIRO,etc to expand their service.
If Nova jump on the NBI scheme when it's ready, it's them I'd be looking at as my ISP.

Quick question. Is it possible for whole-salers like NBI to offer triple-play for resale? (content only, not presentation/branding obvs) Is there any precedent for this? Or is that left up to the providers always?

tsue921i8wljb3

heavydawson wrote: »

Given that NBI are acting as a wholesale company, how are they a competitive threat to existing ISPs?
Surely it affords those ISPs an additional product line in terms of offering a fibre product. We've seen this with existing regional WISPs partnering with SIRO,etc to expand their service.
If Nova jump on the NBI scheme when it's ready, it's them I'd be looking at as my ISP.

Quick question. Is it possible for whole-salers like NBI to offer triple-play for resale? (content only, not presentation/branding obvs) Is there any precedent for this? Or is that left up to the providers always?

NBI are not the threat as such. It is the fact that they will facilitate the entry of large multinational organisations such as eir, Sky, Virgin and Vodafone into markets where they previously didn't exist to any great extent.

As I posted previously eir retail have 85% of rural FTTH connections. According to the most recent Comreg data report:

According to the data received from operators for Q2 2019, Eir had 32.2% of total retail fixed broadband subscriptions, followed by Virgin Media who had 26.3% of subscriptions. Vodafone had 18.9% (excluding mobile broadband subscriptions) and Sky Ireland had a 13.4% market share. All other OAOs combined accounted for the remaining 9.2% share of retail fixed broadband subscriptions.

So now you're going to have another 30 or however many operators trying to compete with these behemoths. You can see how the economics don't stack up which is why many of them are complaining. They can see the writing on the wall.

I doubt if they would offer triple play.

heavydawson

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

NBI are not the threat as such. It is the fact that they will facilitate the entry of large multinational organisations such as eir, Sky, Virgin and Vodafone into markets where they previously didn't exist to any great extent.

As I posted previously eir retail have 85% of rural FTTH connections. According to the most recent Comreg data report:



So now you're going to have another 30 or however many operators trying to compete with these behemoths. You can see how the economics don't stack up which is why many of them are complaining. They can see the writing on the wall.

I doubt if they would offer triple play.

Thanks Navi. So to paraphrase, they're worried about their effective monopoly in the regions being open to competition (and the state paying to end the monopoly). Am I grossly misrepresenting the scenario? I'm being facetious to a point, but I feel there's some truth to it.

ussjtrunks

I believe alot are loyal if treated well Nova have treated me very well over the years so If they resell the ftth product I'll go with them 100%. I feel like WISPs are in a great position actually as they can offer switching incentives to existing customers to keep them on board

tsue921i8wljb3

heavydawson wrote: »

Thanks Navi. So to paraphrase, they're worried about their effective monopoly in the regions being open to competition (and the state paying to end the monopoly). Am I grossly misrepresenting the scenario? I'm being facetious to a point, but I feel there's some truth to it.

That would be my take on it also. Although, to be fair, a lot of these companies invested money and provided service where there was none over many years. I suppose it would be quite galling to have your efforts undermined, in their eyes, in such a way so I do have some sympathy for them. However, for the greater good I think it best that the plan went ahead.

Orebro

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

That would be my take on it also. Although, to be fair, a lot of these companies invested money and provided service where there was none over many years. I suppose it would be quite galling to have your efforts undermined, in their eyes, in such a way so I do have some sympathy for them. However, for the greater good I think it best that the plan went ahead.

Yes they provided a service in the vacuum, but lets not fool ourselves either, they're not charities - they were in it to make money and plenty of it they made and are still making. Came across this in the Irish Times today and it sums it up nicely, and means there is something so much bigger going on here than a few regional WISPs being threatened:

---

That said, if the scheme delivers on its stated objectives of bringing fibre broadband to 542,000 homes located in the most broadband-deprived areas, it will transform the country.

When combined with commercial fibre rollouts, the National Broadband Plan (NBP) could see up to 90 per cent of the State’s two million homes and businesses equipped with the gold standard of internet connectivity, fibre-to-the-home (FTTH) broadband, within the next five years, catapulting Ireland from broadband laggard into high-tech hub along the lines of Singapore.

“It will change how we’re perceived; it will change foreign direct investment; it will change the ability of companies to locate outside of Dublin; it will give people the ability to work from home; it will transform education and health,” an industry source said. “It will genuinely make us a digital economy.”

---

plodder

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

As I posted previously eir retail have 85% of rural FTTH connections. According to the most recent Comreg data report:

So now you're going to have another 30 or however many operators trying to compete with these behemoths. You can see how the economics don't stack up which is why many of them are complaining. They can see the writing on the wall.

I doubt if they would offer triple play.

I'm familiar with two parts of the country where FTTH is available and this is anecdotal obviously, but in the east of the country where I am, nobody seems to bother advertising and Eir get the connections by default almost. In other places like Mayo, you have retailers like Westnet who have advertised heavily on the ground, and from I can see are getting the business. So, until other potential (ex wireless) operators do the same and actually make an effort in their own backyards, then I won't be convinced by this argument.

allanpkr

plodder wrote: »

I'm familiar with two parts of the country where FTTH is available and this is anecdotal obviously, but in the east of the country where I am, nobody seems to bother advertising and Eir get the connections by default almost. In other places like Mayo, you have retailers like Westnet who have advertised heavily on the ground, and from I can see are getting the business. So, until other potential (ex wireless) operators do the same and actually make an effort in their own backyards, then I won't be convinced by this argument.

im on westnet fixed wireless, they are my preferred option for ftth. i agree i think wisps have a great chance if they treated their previous customers with a good service ,most will, if offered stay with them for ftth, its upto to wisps to see the new market and jump aboard.

jeepster_ie

allanpkr wrote: »

im on westnet fixed wireless, they are my preferred option for ftth. i agree i think wisps have a great chance if they treated their previous customers with a good service ,most will, if offered stay with them for ftth, its upto to wisps to see the new market and jump aboard.

Customer loyalty is fickle IMO if for example eir can offer for a cheaper price even just for the first year. Many people dont take the second year price hike into account - they are just thinking of the current years costs. I think its inevitable that some of the wisps will fall by the wayside because of this - their product differentiation is gone. Time will tell I suppose.

Marlow

jeepster_ie wrote: »

Customer loyalty is fickle IMO if for example eir can offer for a cheaper price even just for the first year. Many people dont take the second year price hike into account - they are just thinking of the current years costs. I think its inevitable that some of the wisps will fall by the wayside because of this - their product differentiation is gone. Time will tell I suppose.

Your logic has a big flaw and no: eir is not cheaper:

- Eir on their current 150 Mbit/s bundle is 40.99 EUR for 6 months, then 65.99 EUR. 99.99 EUR installation. A standalone broadband package is more expensive. That's a total of 741.87 EUR the first year.

- Westnet is 45 EUR for 150 Mbit/s standalone broadband. No installation fee. That is 540 EUR the first year ... a lot cheaper than Eir.

- Airwire is 49 EUR for 150 Mbit/s standalone broadband on OpenEIRs network and 45 EUR for 150 Mbit/s on SIROs network. Installation varies on network, but also works out cheaper on their 18 months contracts.

Plenty more examples where those come from.

And then there is the next culprit: what makes you believe, that Eir is going to offer service on NBIs NBP infrastructure ?

Eir do not operate on SIRO, they do not use the government MANs. They matter of fact do not use any third party networks AT ALL. Only their own fibre.

So the chances of you being able to get fibre service of them in the NBP infrastructure is zilch, nada, bogus.

/M