NBP part II

KOR101

Marlow wrote: »

If they were bothered about those 540k, they would not have left the NBP bidding process.

No. They would have thought, like you , that the process simply couldn't continue with just McCourt.

Marlow

KOR101 wrote: »

No. They would have thought, like you , that the process simply couldn't continue with just McCourt.

It also shouldn't have. Even the consultants advised, that the model is not suitable and very costly, if only one bidder remains. That advice was ignored.

Similar ignorance is the cause of the Childrens Hospital disaster.

/M

ussjtrunks

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

Apparently ducting will be included in the connection fee up to €5k I think but that will likely delay your installation so if you can get it repaired relatively cheaply I'd do that.

Is there anyway to know if its clear or not its been there like 30 years? Not even sure who I could hire to look at it. The main connection to the house is overground the pole that has the duct is outside the wall.

Idbatterim

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/if-mobile-broadband-good-enough-for-rural-germany-why-not-rural-ireland-1.3875352

I am sure that fibre to the home is superior! But please counter the logic in the above article. I expect to be told that the germans, dont have a clue :rolleyes: And that pascale donohue, varadkar and whatever other gob****es and "experts" and the nbp sign off on a fortune, is nothing to do with an imminent election :rolleyes:

brilliant that other more important areas are starved of funding! You'd swear this was the middle east with more money than sense, but no, its the country with 3rd world infrastructure, joke housing, health, law and order etc...

Marlow

ussjtrunks wrote: »

Is there anyway to know if its clear or not its been there like 30 years? Not even sure who I could hire to look at it. The main connection to the house is overground the pole that has the duct is outside the wall.

Rent rodding gear from your local hire shop. (It's called a "Cobra") and then try rod it through the ducting and see if it gets stuck.

/M

Marlow

Idbatterim wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/if-mobile-broadband-good-enough-for-rural-germany-why-not-rural-ireland-1.3875352

I am sure that fibre to the home is superior! But please counter the logic in the above article. I expect to be told that the germans, dont have a clue :rolleyes: And that pascale donohue, varadkar and whatever other gob****es and "experts" and the nbp sign off on a fortune, is nothing to do with an imminent election :rolleyes:

It works in Germany, because the masts are fibre fed. The issue here is, that the issue was (again) tackled from the wrong end of the stick. And probably 70-80% of masts or more do not have fibre and are backhauled using licensed links, which is limited in capacity.

Just my 2c.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

ussjtrunks wrote: »

Is there anyway to know if its clear or not its been there like 30 years? Not even sure who I could hire to look at it. The main connection to the house is overground the pole that has the duct is outside the wall.

You could try the rods as Marlow said but at that distance you're likely to struggle to get them through. It may require new ducting or perhaps the could install the fibre cable overhead. It doesn't have the same issues with electricity as copper cable.

Pique

It brings up a good question. How should one prepare for the installers? Any landscaping jobs that are in the offing should surely be taking a new duct into account. In my scenario the phone line comes in overhead through trees, and my garden needs levelling too so topsoil will be added in part of it. I should probably lay ducting to the road nearest the last pole and remove the overhead copper when the time comes. Make sense?

Is there a certain type of ducting that is preferred for others like me to choose?

heavydawson

Idbatterim wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/if-mobile-broadband-good-enough-for-rural-germany-why-not-rural-ireland-1.3875352

I am sure that fibre to the home is superior! But please counter the logic in the above article. I expect to be told that the germans, dont have a clue :rolleyes: And that pascale donohue, varadkar and whatever other gob****es are experts and the nbp sign off on a fortune, is nothing to do with an imminent election :rolleyes:

brilliant that other more important areas are starved of funding! You'd swear this was the middle east with more money than sense, but no, its the country with 3rd world infrastructure, joke housing, health, law and order etc...

If I read another "5G solves everything" news article, I'll cry.

The Government needs to ask itself why the mobile industry is touting 5G’s ability to deliver download speeds of many hundreds of megabits per second, yet falling over itself to limit this capability to large towns and cities. The simple truth is that the requirement to extend their networks to rural locations results in lower profits.

The "hundreds of megabits" above is only achievable with the mmWave hardware in the 5G spec. mmWave is extremely high frequency with massive attenuation, and doesn't penetrate most buildings. They can have this in city centres because it's easier to put masts up every couple of hundred feet.
To do this in the countryside? Masts every couple of hundred feet? The government aren't `falling over itself to limit this capability to large towns and cities`. It's simple - neither the technology nor the economics support mmWave 5g in rural locations.
Can it do 100MBit/s in rural locations? Likely yes. The existing 4g LTE networks can in theory do 150Mbit/s. But they don't because it's not economical to have enough masts and supporting infra to do so. I've seen up to 70Mbit/s on my phone with LTE in Dublin city centre.

This is all a moot point. People continuously forget that those 4g/5g speeds are obtainable when you're outside. Most modern houses have foil-backed insulation that blocks signals coming into the house. I can barely get a GSM signal inside my house and 4g as soon as I step outside the front door. That's physics.

I'm tired of the 5G snake oil. Here's what we can say definitively:
1. It'll be super-fast in cities where there are plenty of masts, _as long as you're outside_
2. It will no faster than 4G in rural environments because we're not going to double/triple/quadruple the mast infrastructure.
3. It won't solve the indoor signal problem.

Also, the EU want everyone to have the choice of up to 1gbit/s:

In order to address future broadband needs, the Commission proposes that by 2025 all schools, transport hubs and main providers of public services as well as digitally intensive enterprises should have access to internet connections with download/upload speeds of 1 Gigabit of data per second. In addition, all European households, rural or urban, should have access to networks offering a download speed of at least 100 Mbps, which can be upgraded to 1 Gigabit and all urban areas as well as major roads and railways should have uninterrupted 5G wireless broadband coverage, starting with fully-fledged commercial service in at least one major city in each EU member state already by 2020.

https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/policies/improving-connectivity-and-access

Also if 5G was solving all of Germanys woes, then why are the government funding a fibre-to-the-home initiative:
https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/german-expat-news/12-billion-euros-bring-fibre-optic-internet-germany

The Irish Times article is completely distorting the facts.

tsue921i8wljb3

Pique wrote: »

It brings up a good question. How should one prepare for the installers? Any landscaping jobs that are in the offing should surely be taking a new duct into account. In my scenario the phone line comes in overhead through trees, and my garden needs levelling too so topsoil will be added in part of it. I should probably lay ducting to the road nearest the last pole and remove the overhead copper when the time comes. Make sense?

Is there a certain type of ducting that is preferred for others like me to choose?

You might need to duct right up to the pole and even then you may need an access chamber built. You might just be better having a clear path through the trees. Here are eir ducting guidelines anyway in case you go down that route.

https://fibrerollout.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Ducting-Guidelines.pdf

Idbatterim

can the cable be put in my 2inch diameter ducting up my driveway, right beside the armoured cable delivering power to the end of the drive for gates, lights and intercom etc, or does that cause issues?

tsue921i8wljb3

Idbatterim wrote: »

can the cable be put in my 2inch diameter ducting up my driveway, right beside the armoured cable delivering power to the end of the drive for gates, lights and intercom etc, or does that cause issues?

Technically it can but installers may be told not to share ducts with power.

listermint

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

Technically it can but installers may be told not to share ducts with power.

Why. It's fibre.

tsue921i8wljb3

listermint wrote: »

Why. It's fibre.

Health and safety of the installer. Just a possibility, I don't know what their procedures will be.

ussjtrunks

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

You could try the rods as Marlow said but at that distance you're likely to struggle to get them through. It may require new ducting or perhaps the could install the fibre cable overhead. It doesn't have the same issues with electricity as copper cable.

Oh thats interesting the issue before was the electricity wires do you think theyd just do it overhead then

user1842

Why not just pull the fibre cable through with the EIR phone cable. If the NBI installers will not do this then do it yourself just before the install with a piece of rope instead of the fibre cable.

tsue921i8wljb3

ussjtrunks wrote: »

Oh thats interesting the issue before was the electricity wires do you think theyd just do it overhead then

It's possible. I can't say for definite one way or the other.

ussjtrunks

How does fibre cable get converted to an ethernet cable to connect to a router? Is the install complicated once they get into the house

purpleisafruit

ussjtrunks wrote: »

How does fibre cable get converted to an ethernet cable to connect to a router? Is the install complicated once they get into the house

An Optical Network Termination (ONT) point is installed in your house which converts the fibre to ethernet in simple terms

plodder

ussjtrunks wrote: »

How does fibre cable get converted to an ethernet cable to connect to a router? Is the install complicated once they get into the house

Two boxes are installed on your wall where the cable comes in. The first terminates the external cable and patches a short fibre link to the second box which is a fibre modem basically, and which converts the fibre GPON signal to ethernet to connect to your router (3rd box).

Dero

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

I have a list of what I believe are NBI OLT locations. This is comparable to the eir exchange and it is where the fibre runs for a given area will start. I think the closer you are to one of these locations the quicker you are likely to be connected when they start building. There are 227 locations in total, too many to put in a table here so I made a spreadsheet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11hSbc0gWICHmVIVuXsN9myxoHnaZUwj1N96sBQdyqFQ/edit?usp=sharing

Presumably this is speculation (albeit well informed speculation), but this post has made me irrationally happy.

tsue921i8wljb3

Dero wrote: »

Presumably this is speculation (albeit well informed speculation), but this post has made me irrationally happy.

It is not speculation. It's from a NBI source.

ussjtrunks

Cant wait for leaks with who will be connected 1st fiarly sure I'll be waiting the full 7 years

Dero

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

It is not speculation. It's from a NBI source.

Yeah, I know that. I'm just trying to keep my expectations grounded.

irishfeen

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

I have a list of what I believe are NBI OLT locations. This is comparable to the eir exchange and it is where the fibre runs for a given area will start. I think the closer you are to one of these locations the quicker you are likely to be connected when they start building. There are 227 locations in total, too many to put in a table here so I made a spreadsheet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11hSbc0gWICHmVIVuXsN9myxoHnaZUwj1N96sBQdyqFQ/edit?usp=sharing

So NBI can extend to a range of 20km past these locations? (From what I know Max fibre run is 20km)

theguzman

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

I have a list of what I believe are NBI OLT locations. This is comparable to the eir exchange and it is where the fibre runs for a given area will start. I think the closer you are to one of these locations the quicker you are likely to be connected when they start building. There are 227 locations in total, too many to put in a table here so I made a spreadsheet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11hSbc0gWICHmVIVuXsN9myxoHnaZUwj1N96sBQdyqFQ/edit?usp=sharing

Great list Emmanuel Lemon Louse, thanks for that I live 2km from one of those OLT locations. The Eircom Exchange is fed by trunk fibre cable which was laid around 2014 and the village itself upgraded to VDSL giving 70mbps over copper, I'm too far to benefit from it at 2kms and get 12mb on ADSL2+ over copper.

Will NBI be doing co-location at the EIR exchanges where their network connects to the trunk fibre backhaul from there?

Gary kk

Just wondering dose having a bcp in throwing distance mean you go to the back of the list.

tsue921i8wljb3

irishfeen wrote: »

So NBI can extend to a range of 20km past these locations? (From what I know Max fibre run is 20km)

20km would be the maximum distance however it could be less than that depending on the split ratio they use. I haven't mapped all the locations to see the overlap between them.

tsue921i8wljb3

theguzman wrote: »

Great list navi, thanks for that I live 2km from one of those OLT locations. The Eircom Exchange is fed by trunk fibre cable which was laid around 2014 and the village itself upgraded to VDSL giving 70mbps over copper, I'm too far to benefit from it at 2kms and get 12mb on ADSL2+ over copper.

Will NBI be doing co-location at the EIR exchanges where their network connects to the trunk fibre backhaul from there?

I have not checked all the locations but the vast majority that I have checked are not using eir exchanges. They seem to be using enet locations primarily, only using eir where there is no choice.

irishfeen

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

I have not checked all the locations but the vast majority that I have checked are not using eir exchanges. They seem to be using enet locations primarily, only using eir where there is no choice.

We would be off the Bweeng exchange in Cork, I see no way they could manage to serve this area with 20km fibre from Grenagh. I presume they will have to use the Eir exchange.