NBP part II

tsue921i8wljb3

irishfeen wrote: »

We would be off the Bweeng exchange in Cork, I see no way they could manage to serve this area with 20km fibre from Grenagh. I presume they will have to use the Eir exchange.

You'd know the area better than me but I just drew a 20km radius circle in Google Earth from Grenagh and it covers Bweeng quite easily. It extends out past Lyre.

ussjtrunks

Whats the latency like on big runs of fibre, does speed / latency decrease like old Adsl? Seems I'm around 6km from Killavullen

irishfeen

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

You'd know the area better than me but I just drew a 20km radius circle in Google Earth from Grenagh and it covers Bweeng quite easily. It extends out past Lyre.

I suppose it all depends on how the NBI want to roll this out, the problem is Bweeng and the Grenagh area are not linked whatsoever in terms of the Eir network AFAIK. Bweeng is fed from the south (Macroom) as far as I’m aware.

tsue921i8wljb3

ussjtrunks wrote: »

Whats the latency like on big runs of fibre, does speed / latency decrease like old Adsl? Seems I'm around 6km from Killavullen

Imperceptible. I'm over 5km from my exchange.

Pinging boards.ie [104.20.70.96] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 104.20.70.96: bytes=32 time=3ms TTL=58
Reply from 104.20.70.96: bytes=32 time=3ms TTL=58
Reply from 104.20.70.96: bytes=32 time=3ms TTL=58
Reply from 104.20.70.96: bytes=32 time=3ms TTL=58

Ping statistics for 104.20.70.96:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 3ms, Maximum = 3ms, Average = 3ms

tsue921i8wljb3

Gary kk wrote: »

Just wondering dose having a bcp in throwing distance mean you go to the back of the list.

No. I don't believe it would have any bearing on when you get passed.

tuxy

Does distance have much impact on latency with dsl?
Wouldn't the latency difference between DSL and FTTH have more to do with encode times?

ussjtrunks

How is the latency so good even at long runs what magic does the tech do that copper was not able to, genuinely curious?

Does speed hold up aswell even over 10km?

BArra

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

No. I don't believe it would have any bearing on when you get passed.

im about 10-12km from nearest point on your list local to me.

do you suspect so that this is where they will build out from, meaning the further away you are, the slower they may be to reach you? As i assume that is where you are going to be fed from..

tsue921i8wljb3

I think it's more about attenuation of the signal than anything else. Copper was never designed to carry data, it was kind of forced upon it. Fibre was designed for data. There are still attenuation limits with fibre which is why there is a 20km limit but they are less onerous than with copper. Speeds should be the same at 1km and 19km.

tsue921i8wljb3

BArra wrote: »

im about 10-12km from nearest point on your list local to me.

do you suspect so that this is where they will build out from, meaning the further away you are, the slower they may be to reach you? As i assume that is where you are going to be fed from..

Pretty much. I would expect they would build out from these locations.

irishfeen

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

Pretty much. I would expect they would build out from these locations.

Have we found out yet what’s the situation regarding NBI erecting poles and the complications that brings?

ussjtrunks

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

I think it's more about attenuation of the signal than anything else. Copper was never designed to carry data, it was kind of forced upon it. Fibre was designed for data. There are still attenuation limits with fibre which is why there is a 20km limit but they are less onerous than with copper. Speeds should be the same at 1km and 19km.

Thats awesome, more interested in latency though any advantage in latency over the wireless system I currently have for gaming would be fantastic

dam099

heavydawson wrote: »

Most modern houses have foil-backed insulation that blocks signals coming into the house. I can barely get a GSM signal inside my house and 4g as soon as I step outside the front door. That's physics.

I'd agree with almost all your other points and as we are going to subsidise this I do favour doing it right and using Fibre but the insulation point doesnt have to be an issue where 4g/5g is being used for Fixed Wireless, you should really be using an external antenna anyway and bring it into the house with a cable.

heavydawson

dam099 wrote: »

I'd agree with almost all your other points and as we are going to subsidise this I do favour doing it right and using Fibre but the insulation point doesnt have to be an issue where 4g/5g is being used for Fixed Wireless, you should really be using an external antenna anyway and bring it into the house with a cable.

Hey dam099, that's a fair point. Full disclosure:
I use Vodafone's home 4g solution. When I built the house, I was able to wire CAT 6 and power in the attic (no insulation in the rafters), so I have the 4G device up there (in addition to a Nova antenna on the side of the house). Here's my practical experience with VF:
1. Excellent for symmetric connection due to the nature of 4g, which makes it far more suitable for video conferencing.
2. Despite a good signal (4-5 bars constantly), I never got > 20mbps
3. Recently VF have capped the bandwidth to 10mbps (even though I'm paying the same amount).

So:
1. Your point about the external antenna is a good one (though it doesn't fix "normal" phone reception indoors, but that's not what we're discussing here)
2. Existing 4G deployments in rural environs, even where signal strength is strong leave a lot to be desired WRT to bandwidth (as has been my practical experience). I acknowledge that's with a single operator (but an operator generally regarded as the one with the greatest coverage)

Thanks for pointing out about the antenna. It would be remiss of me to not acknowledge it.

tsue921i8wljb3

ussjtrunks wrote: »

Thats awesome, more interested in latency though any advantage in latency over the wireless system I currently have for gaming would be fantastic

From my understanding it's all linked to fibre's immunity to interference and therefore errors. Copper lines need to employ complicated error correction and error mitigation systems which add latency. Fibre does not need such aggressive correction.

Some wireless point to point systems can actually have a lower latency than fibre but I don't expect you are using an expensive point to point for your connection.

tsue921i8wljb3

irishfeen wrote: »

Have we found out yet what’s the situation regarding NBI erecting poles and the complications that brings?

I don't know what the situation is there.

user1842

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

From my understanding it's all linked to fibre's immunity to interference and therefore errors. Copper lines need to employ complicated error correction and error mitigation systems which add latency. Fibre does not need such aggressive correction.

Some wireless point to point systems can actually have a lower latency than fibre but I don't expect you are using an expensive point to point for your connection.

Roughly the latency of fibre is 5 microseconds per kilometre (very roughly as it depends on the laser used and the refractive index of the glass in the fibre).

Thus the fibre is not responsible for any perceptible latency.

(There are 1000 microseconds in a millisecond).

ussjtrunks

Will the current exchanges be able to cope with the increased amount of data being used or will they have to upgrade almost everything?

heavydawson

ussjtrunks wrote: »

Will the current exchanges be able to cope with the increased amount of data being used or will they have to upgrade almost everything?

Well they have to meet certain requirements (NBI have said a minimum 150Mbit/s per subscriber), so that figure along with their projected uptake over time will determine what kit will be needed in the exchanges. Given that they're building their own network, they'll probably be _adding_ equipment to exchanges rather than upgrading that which exists, with the possible exception of the equipment used to terminate the main backhaul. TBH I'm purely speculating here. Perhaps someone with better knowledge of the intricacies of the exchange configurations can contribute......

irishfeen

Safe to say Navi's NBI list is absolutely spot on for Cork, 20km max fibre runs covers the county of Cork completely with most locations being able to be covered by multiple sites.

heavydawson

irishfeen wrote: »

Safe to say Navi's NBI list is absolutely spot on for Cork, 20km max fibre runs covers the county of Cork completely with most locations being able to be covered by multiple sites.

That visualization is for 20km as the crow flies which isn't the same as the road/pole distances, just a heads-up.

irishfeen

heavydawson wrote: »

That visualization is for 20km as the crow flies which isn't the same as the road/pole distances, just a heads-up.

Of course your right but with most locations being able to be served from more then 1 NBI base then they will get the vast majority of premises with ducts, eir poles and new NBI poles.

clohamon

BCPs data with GPS coords here.

Standard Toaster

How are the access Hubs getting wired up? Will they be hanging off the nearest OLT points, or will they be independent from them.

clohamon

Minister responds (a bit) to a series of focused questions from Catherine Murphy TD. It would be interesting to see the department's exact reasoning, if any, for declining the mapping submissions received. Maybe someone here has seen one of the responses.

And it appears that SIRO are now deploying in the old Intervention Area, though only a few thousand so far.
https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2019-11-21a.526&s=broadband+OR+mobile+OR+%22National+Broadband+Plan%22+speaker%3A46

Having consulted with industry on an ongoing basis, my Department recently conducted a final public consultation to close the mapping exercise in advance of the award of the NBP contract. Over 180 submissions were received from a variety of stakeholders, including 30 from large and small commercial telecommunications operators, with the remainder from local authority broadband officers and members of the public.
Following evaluation of the submissions and receipt of a positive State aid decision on 15 November, responses have been issued to the submissions from the commercial operators. Having evaluated the submissions received, approximately 38,000 premises were removed from the intervention area as commercial operators provided evidence that these premises can now access a high speed broadband service from an existing network. These premises relate to network deployment detailed in submissions received from eir and SIRO, that were evaluated as meeting the assessment criteria published by the Department.

tsue921i8wljb3

Standard Toaster wrote: »

How are the access Hubs getting wired up? Will they be hanging off the nearest OLT points, or will they be independent from them.

I believe they'll be independent. It's likely a lot, maybe all, of them will be fed wirelessly as that will allow NBI to have 287 live in 2020.

clohamon wrote: »

Minister responds (a bit) to a series of focused questions from Catherine Murphy TD. It would be interesting to see the department's exact reasoning, if any, for declining the mapping submissions received. Maybe someone here has seen one of the responses.

And it appears that SIRO are now deploying in the old Intervention Area, though only a few thousand so far.
https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2019-11-21a.526&s=broadband+OR+mobile+OR+%22National+Broadband+Plan%22+speaker%3A46

The SIRO premises were mentioned in the press release. It is only 4000 premises and is a result of how many intervention premises there are in urban areas. Most regional towns are dotted with such premises.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/e15062-high-speed-broadband-for-11m-people-in-homes-schools-businesses-acro/

Ultimanemo

clohamon wrote: »

Minister responds (a bit) to a series of focused questions from Catherine Murphy TD. It would be interesting to see the department's exact reasoning, if any, for declining the mapping submissions received. Maybe someone here has seen one of the responses.

And it appears that SIRO are now deploying in the old Intervention Area, though only a few thousand so far.
https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2019-11-21a.526&s=broadband+OR+mobile+OR+%22National+Broadband+Plan%22+speaker%3A46

I can't wait to see her back, she is always talking the same against NBP.

xxyyzz

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

I believe they'll be independent. It's likely a lot, maybe all, of them will be fed wirelessly as that will allow NBI to have 287 live in 2020.

Does that make sense though? I mean if your local hub can be covered wirelessly then surely all the surrounding houses would already have wireless if they needed broadband negating the need for the hub.

theguzman

xxyyzz wrote: »

Does that make sense though? I mean if your local hub can be covered wirelessly then surely all the surrounding houses would already have wireless if they needed broadband negating the need for the hub.

Wireless is not broadband anymore, Broadband can only be delivered by Fibre, Wireless can only deliver a tiny fraction of the bandwidth required and it is not upgradable or future proofed. People on wireless are usually stuck with a very slow upload and they don't have broadband per say anymore.

Once you get fibre into your home the speed can continuously be increased as required and that single fibre optic glass tube the same thickness as a human hair which will be connected to every home in Ireland could carry the worlds entire internet traffic through it from Belmullet to Bantry or Kenmare to Killybegs because it is optical fibre.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/192929-255tbps-worlds-fastest-network-could-carry-all-the-internet-traffic-single-fiber

Fibre is future proofed and until Physics and Scientists develop a way to break the speed of light then Fibre will remain the worlds number 1 method of delivering data around the world. Wireless cannot ever compete with it due to the laws of physics and I for certainly am not going to argue with Einstein's theory of Relativity.

tsue921i8wljb3

xxyyzz wrote: »

Does that make sense though? I mean if your local hub can be covered wirelessly then surely all the surrounding houses would already have wireless if they needed broadband negating the need for the hub.

They seem to have ignored any existing WISP coverage. It is like they don't exist. I'm only going on Government statements and an interview with enet saying they will be wireless. I don't see how they could run fibre to 287 separate locations within 12 months without purchasing expensive dark fibre from open eir which I don't believe they are going to do.

The whole BCP thing is a bit of a sideshow in my opinion. It seems to have been the Government's idea so that they can show something tangible for the first year of the project.