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NBP part II

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    #1742
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    Another negative piece from Colm McCarthy. Whatever your opinion about the NBP, I think he makes an interesting point about the scrutiny around such projects. It does seem broken when you consider that
    No public project of any significance has ever been abandoned because the consultants, engaged by the project promoters, failed to find enough benefits to justify the admitted costs

    https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/colm-mccarthy-flawed-project-puts-public-money-at-risk-38720730.html


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    #1743
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,912 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »
    Another negative piece from Colm McCarthy. Whatever your opinion about the NBP, I think he makes an interesting point about the scrutiny around such projects. It does seem broken when you consider that



    https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/colm-mccarthy-flawed-project-puts-public-money-at-risk-38720730.html

    I don't understand what's implied by the quoted bit ? Your take on what be means ?


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    #1744
    Gonzo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,855 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    allanpkr wrote: »
    totally true amount of data in near future is totally beyond wireless ability.

    I've seen speedtests using 5g and if you get a great speed right next to a node, you can use your monthly data cap in less than 1 minute.

    5g is also incredibly sensitive to line of sight and distance, much more sensitive than 3g or 4g.Hills, even trees and walls can block signals or reduce them massively over a very short distance.

    Data limits on wireless services is already tight. In a year's time the next generation of gaming consoles will be released, many of today's games are in excess of 100gigs of data per download file. I can see games in 2020 and beyond going for 200+gigs of data per file with much improved textures etc adding enormously to file sizes. Patches and software updates are also getting larger all the time. We will need much more data in about 2 years time than we do today.


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    #1745
    allanpkr
    Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭allanpkr


    in my opinion the consultants were wrong. 6000k per household seems a lot. its not. this is a system that is future proof. imagine the benefits to this country in the future. it can only be a positive thing for ireland . unless anyone ,anyone at all can tell me any negative thing.
    in sometime in future 3billion will seem cheap for what we got, for future generations .


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    #1746
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    listermint wrote: »
    I don't understand what's implied by the quoted bit ? Your take on what be means ?

    The quote is from McCarthy in the article. I think the quote highlights that scrutiny around large capital projects is broken. Consultants, hired by the project's champions have never seen fit to give a negative outlook on any large project. You could see where there may be a conflict of interest.


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    #1747
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,912 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »
    The quote is from McCarthy in the article. I think the quote highlights that scrutiny around large capital projects is broken. Consultants, hired by the project's champions have never seen fit to give a negative outlook on any large project. You could see where there may be a conflict of interest.

    Ah I see.

    I suppose then I don't really get his point . Has he worked in any large projects? Because the consultants are usually brought in to determine best approach to get the end result. I don't know of any project where consultants are contracted to prevent the project from being done.

    I mean it's a bit of stupid point. The goal of the project had been decided from the outset. Hence the point of a projects inception.


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    #1748
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    listermint wrote: »
    Ah I see.

    I suppose then I don't really get his point . Has he worked in any large projects? Because the consultants are usually brought in to determine best approach to get the end result. I don't know of any project where consultants are contracted to prevent the project from being done.

    I mean it's a bit of stupid point. The goal of the project had been decided from the outset. Hence the point of a projects inception.

    I think it's more the cost benefit analyses. I thought it was an interesting article but it's not something I am overly familiar with. The discussion probably is more at home in the infrastructure forum or similar.


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    #1749
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,912 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »
    I think it's more the cost benefit analyses. I thought it was an interesting article but it's not something I am overly familiar with. The discussion probably is more at home in the infrastructure forum or similar.

    In my view the outcome is we require a national broadband infrastructure for all the reasons discussed in this thread. In terms of cost benefit I'm not even sure it's measurable but presumption that new business incubation, removal of traffic off roads, inward investment, world class infrastructure. I don't know how you out a figure on that.

    But if his argument was that you can get it done cheaper then. All ears,lay it out . Seems like another article for space on a page.


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    #1750
    allanpkr
    Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭allanpkr


    listermint wrote: »
    In my view the outcome is we require a national broadband infrastructure for all the reasons discussed in this thread. In terms of cost benefit I'm not even sure it's measurable but presumption that new business incubation, removal of traffic off roads, inward investment, world class infrastructure. I don't know how you out a figure on that.

    But if his argument was that you can get it done cheaper then. All ears,lay it out . Seems like another article for space on a page.

    exactly what it is, space on a page. what can i write about??? hmmmm nbp is news at moment, what angle can i come in with?


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    #1751
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,220 ✭✭✭plodder


    Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »
    Another negative piece from Colm McCarthy. Whatever your opinion about the NBP, I think he makes an interesting point about the scrutiny around such projects. It does seem broken when you consider that



    https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/colm-mccarthy-flawed-project-puts-public-money-at-risk-38720730.html
    He's been fairly quiet the last few months. Not a peep during the last minute Eir intervention if I recall correctly. I was (but shouldn't have been) surprised that none of the anti NBP crowd had much to say about that. Now that the contract is signed and can't be overturned, it's safe to come back out and continue the whinge.

    As someone on this site pointed out recently. The only true thing that can be said about cost benefit analyses, is that they will be wrong. But economists love them all the same.


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    #1752
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    allanpkr wrote: »
    totally true amount of data in near future is totally beyond wireless ability.

    Absolutely


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    #1753
    KOR101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭KOR101


    Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »
    I think it's more the cost benefit analyses. I thought it was an interesting article but it's not something I am overly familiar with. The discussion probably is more at home in the infrastructure forum or similar.
    Do you forget McCarty was hired by the WISPs as a consultant?


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    #1754
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,912 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    KOR101 wrote: »
    Do you forget McCarty was hired by the WISPs as a consultant?

    Lol, didn't know that. Did he declare that in his article.


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    #1755
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    KOR101 wrote: »
    Do you forget McCarty was hired by the WISPs as a consultant?

    No, I remember that! I'm not sure if he is still on the payroll though.
    listermint wrote: »
    Lol, didn't know that. Did he declare that in his article.

    It was back in 2015. A group of WISPs commissioned him to rubbish a PwC benefit analysis on the NBP.

    https://bizplus.ie/broadband-plan-seriously-flawed/


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    #1756
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »
    No, I remember that! I'm not sure if he is still on the payroll though.

    Hardly. Because the group that commissioned him does not exist any longer.

    /M


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    #1757
    Ultimanemo
    Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭Ultimanemo


    Marlow wrote: »
    Hardly. Because the group that commissioned him for said report does not exist any longer.

    /M
    When you talk in public you should declare any conflict of interest


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    #1758
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    When do they expect to have shovels in the ground?

    Could this be a pre election promise which will slow down or go by the wayside once a new government is formed?


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    #1759
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    smelly sock wrote: »
    When do they expect to have shovels in the ground?

    Could this be a pre election promise which will slow down or go by the wayside once a new government is formed?

    Within eight weeks according to

    https://nbi.ie/news/media/2019/11/19/national-broadband-ireland-nbi-sign-historic-contract-to-deliver-national-broadband-plan-to-over-a-million-people-across-the-island/

    No, I don't see how it could go by the wayside.


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    #1760
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    Ultimanemo wrote: »
    When you talk in public you should declare any conflict of interest

    I don't have any conflict of interest in the matter. I had never anything to do with said group. Simples.

    I just know a lot of background on that specific matter.

    /M


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    #1761
    allanpkr
    Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭allanpkr


    not sure your being serious marlow, but obvously he meant jounalist should declare conflict of interest. any person in public life , be it journalist or td must as a matter of course declare any conflict of interest.


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    #1762
    Ultimanemo
    Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭Ultimanemo


    Marlow wrote: »
    I don't have any conflict of interest in the matter. I had never anything to do with said group. Simples.

    I just know a lot of background on that specific matter.

    /M
    I don't mean you, I am talking about
    KOR101 wrote: »
    Do you forget McCarty was hired by the WISPs as a consultant?


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    #1763
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    Ultimanemo wrote: »
    I don't mean you, I am talking about

    Well .. you only quoted me. And with the personal attacks against me here in recent times, I take such quotes seriously.

    /M


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    #1764
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,912 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Marlow wrote: »
    Well .. you only quoted me.

    /M

    Had an old geography teacher who used to always say.



    The world doesn't revolve around you.


    :)


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    #1765
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    listermint wrote: »
    Had an old geography teacher who used to always say.



    The world doesn't revolve around you.


    :)

    He may have been wrong :p

    /M


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    #1766
    allanpkr
    Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭allanpkr


    Marlow wrote: »
    He may have been wrong :p

    /M

    wow, you were serious, you thought he meant you. his geography teacher was obviously right. lol.


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    #1767
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,912 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Marlow wrote: »
    He may have been wrong :p

    /M

    She. And she was a hard women. Not to be crossed :)


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    #1768
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    listermint wrote: »
    She. And she was a hard women. Not to be crossed :)

    Clearly wrong, so .... :p and disconnected from real life.

    /M


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    #1769
    westyIrl
    Registered Users Posts: 510 ✭✭✭westyIrl


    FG plots to have councils debate broadband plan in bid to embarrass FF

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fg-plots-to-have-councils-debate-broadband-plan-in-bid-to-embarrass-ff-38722603.html


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    #1770
    fergus1001
    Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭fergus1001


    thanks westy, that will surely kill off any of their mumbling about 5g fantasy plans

    If polititians start apearing at my door going on about some alternative my only question to them would when ? and then call their bull**** if they say it can be done within the same timescale as the NBP


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    #1771
    Pique
    Registered Users Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭Pique


    Make sure to check your local papers about the results of such votes, and spread them on social media.

    News of objections to the NBP by rural politicians needs to be be spread, and those objecting need to be called out. I bet the FF councillors will be absent or abstain from those votes.

    So when they land on your doorstep they can say "Well I didn't vote against it, shur".

    This kind of BS really infuriates me. FG are guilty of it too when an opposition party proposes a motion that literally everyone would agree with. They vote against it 'because it was the other side who proposed it' and then a while later propose something ostensibly identical and have it pass because of a majority of votes.

    Vote for the good of the people for once, ye twats.


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