Volvo S60 V Toyota Camry

Uncle_moe

Hi,

Just started looking at cars with a view to picking up in January. So far I'm leaning towards the two mentioned in the title and was wondering if anyone had strong opinions either way. Toyota makes more financial sense from price through to running costs. Enjoyed the comfort while driving it. I have not driven the S60 yet but drove an xc40 and realised I might prefer the saloon.

ba_barabus

Drive an S60 or at the very least a V60 and then decide.

Personally, I'd like the Camry but that's just my own preference.

Old diesel

Reviews are tending to suggest the Volvo has a poor enough ride.

Not seen an S60 review on smaller wheels yet though.

If infotainment is important to you - Toyota are poor in this regard - you don't get Apple carplay and Android auto for example.

I'd have the Toyota tbh.

A V60 might actually be better on ride comfort then the S60 - well reviews indicate so - but most seem to be diesel*.

*The V60 came just before the Volvo cut of point of no diesels on future models.

Uncle_moe

Thanks for the responses. I had seen that about ride comfort in the S60 which is odd for a volvo because I thought they were always good for comfort. XC40 was lovely but then I drove the camry and I could feel the car more. The Volvo is almost weightless which is nice but you almost lose the feel of the car.
I'm open to other suggestions too.
Does anyone know if you can at least connect your phone via bluetooth to the Toyota for podcasts etc?

James Bond Junior

I sat into the S60 recently and it is simply stunning inside. Very stylish outside too. Can't comment any further as I didn't drive it nor have I sat into a Camry.

road_high

The new S60 is a bit newer out than the Camry and looks a lot more premium than the Camry. Not that the Camry is a bad buy far from it but the new S60 would be a cut above.

Squeaksoutloud

S60 only out in RDesign at the mo hence all the reviews comment on the ride quality. I would be waiting until the standard models are available as completely different ride then..presumably like the v60 which gets good reviews generally.

Prenderb

My 2012 S60 (non RDesign) is very comfortable. Rides nicely and feels sporty enough (but obvs not like a bmw) when necessary. Feels better on the interior than a previous 3-series I owne,d but that was a 2004 vehicle. Seats are very comfy, interior switches and materials are all nice and feel premium. Was a real step up for me when I changed.

I've a D3 diesel auto which has shed loads of torque and is very easy to drive. Personally I love the look of the current Volvo family and would love to have a V60 when I can!

Drive both. See can you get a test car for more than a test drive to see will your typical boot load fit - my S60's boot is not enormous, for example.

Be sure you're comparing like with like best you can - if the Volvo is more expensive as a base model, you'll have more toys on the Camry for your budget and that might suit you.

Check out things like whether the car has spare wheel, if that's important to you, as many cars don't have one any more!

MarkN

Uncle_moe wrote: »

Does anyone know if you can at least connect your phone via bluetooth to the Toyota for podcasts etc?

Yes you can. Bluetooth and with the cable. CarPlay and Android will come, probably 2020 though. Haven't driven the Volvo yet but I drove the new Camry for a week and it was very impressive, really smooth, nice and refined for a hybrid Toyota for the most part and in Platinum spec, looks pretty good too. They're never going to be as desirable as an Audi or BMW to be fair but you just know a new Camry is going to last and last.

Uncle_moe

Thanks again, plenty of good advice and opinions. I did notice that the only s60 the garage had was R-design but according to the website, the other options are now available.
Going to get a good spin in the s60 non R-design to see what it's like on the road. As I said, the Camry was a great drive and excellent cabin. Looking at the platinum version if I opt for it.
Hopefully I'll find something other than the R-design to test drive soon.

colm_mcm

Not saying they’re bad choices, but how did you arrive at that shortlist?

Philb76

Have seen 4 or 5 camrys so far so they are selling quite surprised me they look great tough choice

road_high

Philb76 wrote: »

Have seen 4 or 5 camrys so far so they are selling quite surprised me they look great tough choice

I’ve seen loads of them too. Including three taxis where I live have opted for them. They’re a lot more tax friendly than the previous model which crucified anything above 2 litres. Road tax system now is a lot fairer to a car like the Camry

road_high

colm_mcm wrote: »

Not saying they’re bad choices, but how did you arrive at that shortlist?

Outside of the German makes there’s not much else I suppose bar a high spec Insignia/Mazda 6/407. Volvo probably comes closest in terms of badge snobbery if that’s a factor (and it is for many people, no point saying otherwise!)

Uncle_moe

colm_mcm wrote: »

Not saying they’re bad choices, but how did you arrive at that shortlist?

To be honest, it's based on which cars I like the look of outside and in. It's going to be a bit of an upgrade for me so I'm looking for something to keep for quite a few years.
Since looking around I think I'll now test drive the Peugeot 508, it's alovely looking car.

3rdDegree

Drove the Camry today. I must say, it's very nice. It's pretty fast (I'm not coming from a sports car myself, 2l Mondeo). A bit more road noise than the Mondeo, but the Mondeo is incredibly quiet. It's big and very nicely finished. The sat nav in it is awful, shame it doesn't have Android auto. Wonder will it be possible to retrofit it if it does become available.

road_high

Old diesel wrote: »

Reviews are tending to suggest the Volvo has a poor enough ride.

Not seen an S60 review on smaller wheels yet though.

If infotainment is important to you - Toyota are poor in this regard - you don't get Apple carplay and Android auto for example.

I'd have the Toyota tbh.

A V60 might actually be better on ride comfort then the S60 - well reviews indicate so - but most seem to be diesel*.

*The V60 came just before the Volvo cut of point of no diesels on future models.

Is there going to be no diesel S60? Bit of a drawback here vs the competition. And for company fleet buyers I don’t think you can claim the VAT back on petrol at all which is a big minus

road_high

road_high wrote: »

Outside of the German makes there’s not much else I suppose bar a high spec Insignia/Mazda 6/407. Volvo probably comes closest in terms of badge snobbery if that’s a factor (and it is for many people, no point saying otherwise!)

I had a very well kitted out 182 Insignia, for a few days this week, while my old S80 was getting a job done.
Hated every minute of it: horrid light steering which gives no feedback, mankey seats pushing in all the wrong places, massive central divide completely ruining the spacious cabin and, fvck me, that turbo lag.


Now it was only the Turbo D (even if every extra was on it) but that turbo lag caught me on hills so often over the few days. Spent far too much time having to drop to 1st.

road_high

Deleted User wrote: »

I had a very well kitted out 182 Insignia, for a few days this week, while my old S80 was getting a job done.
Hated every minute of it: horrid light steering which gives no feedback, mankey seats pushing in all the wrong places, massive central divide completely ruining the spacious cabin and, fvck me, that turbo lag.


Now it was only the Turbo D (even if every extra was on it) but that turbo lag caught me on hills so often over the few days. Spent far too much time having to drop to 1st.

It’s funny I had one for about 6 months as a temp car and I had a big soft spot for the new Insignia- the infotainment system and touch screen in particular I thought were excellent.
The 1.6d isn’t going to win any Grand Prix in such a big car but genuinely didnt find it that bad. I had the SRI model out. I would want the 2 liter if it was long term thing. Found the seats comfortable too

bazz26

Volvo are phasing out their diesel engines. The V60 has a diesel option despite being mostly the same as the S60 but someone one here mentioned that the V60 was launched just before Volvo made the decision to commit to phasing out diesel engines by a certain date.

road_high

bazz26 wrote: »

Volvo are phasing out their diesel engines. The V60 has a diesel option despite being mostly the same as the S60 but someone one here mentioned that the V60 was launched just before Volvo made the decision to commit to phasing out diesel engines by a certain date.

I wonder if that’s a good decision yet here in Europe? The hysteria over diesel is OTT and they’re not finished yet, just a broadening of options is what should be going on. Toyota have their Hybrid thing going on which works for them.
Far as I know you can’t claim the VAT back on petrol- any of the cars in our company fleet are all diesel I think for this reason. The S60 would definitely be on the radar but not as a petrol

Shefwedfan

Which fuel suits you best?

The Camry is lovely, my mate took delivery of one of the first few, he ordered ages ago.....

Mad_maxx

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Which fuel suits you best?

The Camry is lovely, my mate took delivery of one of the first few, he ordered ages ago.....

Any idea what he paid for it?

Mad_maxx

It would be an easy choice for me, never got the volvo love

Shefwedfan

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Any idea what he paid for it?

He went max spec and had a trade in so I don't know to be honest....it wasn't cheap but he got a deal as he ordered it before they even announced over here:p he likes a toyota.....

road_high

Mad_maxx wrote: »

It would be an easy choice for me, never got the volvo love

The seats and interior are top notch in them
I never got the Toyota love either !

Shefwedfan

road_high wrote: »

The seats and interior are top notch in them
I never got the Toyota love either !

I never liked the Toyota interior, even a 2018 RAV had that cheap lookign gear stick you find in the entry auto Yaris

But the new RAV and Camry is a huge step up, massive. I still dont understand why they havent agreed terms so you can get apple/android carplay etc in car....its a bit of a miss but supposed to beout soon

Mad_maxx

road_high wrote: »

The seats and interior are top notch in them
I never got the Toyota love either !

Unparalleled reliability ( Honda being the only exception)

Uncle_moe

Drove the camry again and pretty close to ordering. Only thing holding me back is an upcoming test drive of the Peugeot 508. It's such a nice looking car I have to see how it matches up inside and in terms of drive. Drove the s60 but was an R-design and def not as comfortable as the Camry.

Shefwedfan

Uncle_moe wrote: »

Drove the camry again and pretty close to ordering. Only thing holding me back is an upcoming test drive of the Peugeot 508. It's such a nice looking car I have to see how it matches up inside and in terms of drive. Drove the s60 but was an R-design and def not as comfortable as the Camry.

You will lose at least 1 arm and probably half a leg with the Peugeot compared to the Toyota or Volvo....


Really if you are hybrid fuel then I wouldn't touch diesel, especially with the changes coming

Even VW the other day where talking me out of diesel.....VW of all people :P

Mad_maxx

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You will lose at least 1 arm and probably half a leg with the Peugeot compared to the Toyota or Volvo....


Really if you are hybrid fuel then I wouldn't touch diesel, especially with the changes coming

Even VW the other day where talking me out of diesel.....VW of all people :P

Volvo depreciate as heavily as Peugeot

Leonard Hofstadter

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You will lose at least 1 arm and probably half a leg with the Peugeot compared to the Toyota or Volvo....


Really if you are hybrid fuel then I wouldn't touch diesel, especially with the changes coming

Even VW the other day where talking me out of diesel.....VW of all people :P

A Camry will depreciate heavily too, I can't see there being much of a market for one second-hand.

Peugeot's reputation has come on an awful lot the past few years and they topped this year's JD Power survey, too, I don't think they'll do as badly as you're predicting. Plus, the 508 looks nice inside and out. The Camry looks very (let's be polite) American.

Shefwedfan

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

A Camry will depreciate heavily too, I can't see there being much of a market for one second-hand.

Peugeot's reputation has come on an awful lot the past few years and they topped this year's JD Power survey, too, I don't think they'll do as badly as you're predicting. Plus, the 508 looks nice inside and out. The Camry looks very (let's be polite) American.

Diesel engine will be the problem

The hybrid should hold value better

Mad_maxx

Volvo use Peugeot diesel engines

bazz26

They don't anymore. Since about 2014/2015 they dropped the PSA engines and made their own.

As for Peugeot resale values, take a look at resale values of current model 3008 or 5008, they ain't cheap. Cannot see the Camry holding strong resale values though long term, it's a big car with a big new price tag for a non premium brand. Cannot see too many A6/5 Series or E Class drivers swapping for one.

Mad_maxx

bazz26 wrote: »

They don't anymore. Since about 2014/2015 they dropped the PSA engines and made their own.

As for Peugeot resale values, take a look at resale values of current model 3008 or 5008, they ain't cheap. Cannot see the Camry holding strong resale values though long term, it's a big car with a big new price tag for a non premium brand. Cannot see too many A6/5 Series or E Class drivers swapping for one.

I'd have thought the way things are going, anything hybrid - electric will hold it's value well?

bazz26

Lexus have been selling hybrids for some time too and like any other big car they too suffer fairly harsh depreciation in their early years.

pippip

bazz26 wrote: »

They don't anymore. Since about 2014/2015 they dropped the PSA engines and made their own.

As for Peugeot resale values, take a look at resale values of current model 3008 or 5008, they ain't cheap. Cannot see the Camry holding strong resale values though long term, it's a big car with a big new price tag for a non premium brand. Cannot see too many A6/5 Series or E Class drivers swapping for one.

I thought same but if you look back Peugeot suv vs saloons resale values theres been a big divide in previous models. 508 is overpriced, end of, you just can't hold that resale value. Current 3008 and 5008 are fantastic suvs but are priced correctly and are holding value.

Uncle_moe

I'd be looking for a petrol 508, which does limit options as they only have a 1.6 auto petrol but I assume that would have decent power.
Initially my search had included 2 crossovers, the volvo and 3008 but after driving the volvo I'm not sure there is much point in the 3008. Maybe I'm wrong and the 3008 is worth a go.
Definitely still going to test the 508. Slightly put off by the very dark interior.
Also, a little worried about depreciation on all the cars I'm looking at. 3008 wins in that regard.

Shefwedfan

bazz26 wrote: »

Lexus have been selling hybrids for some time too and like any other big car they too suffer fairly harsh depreciation in their early years.

Market is changing, diesel is bad and hybrid good


A petrol is kind of inbetween



A diesel will depreciate higher than a hybrid in current market. Especially in 3-4 years time when going to trade in the amount of hybrid will be limited compared to diesel so will hold value better

Old diesel

Uncle_moe wrote: »

I'd be looking for a petrol 508, which does limit options as they only have a 1.6 auto petrol but I assume that would have decent power.
Initially my search had included 2 crossovers, the volvo and 3008 but after driving the volvo I'm not sure there is much point in the 3008. Maybe I'm wrong and the 3008 is worth a go.
Definitely still going to test the 508. Slightly put off by the very dark interior.
Also, a little worried about depreciation on all the cars I'm looking at. 3008 wins in that regard.

My understanding is that you can get lighter coloured interiors on the 508.

Which should help

MarkN

Uncle_moe wrote: »

I'd be looking for a petrol 508, which does limit options as they only have a 1.6 auto petrol but I assume that would have decent power.

Up to 225bhp. Doesn't feel 'quick' but it's enough.

Uncle_moe

Looked at the 508, yet to test drive as no garage I contacted in Dublin has had one available to drive in the past few weeks. Price wise, I'd be looking at GT line which means the lower powered petrol.
I'll update once I've driven in case anyone is interested.

road_high

How long has that new Camry model been out in the US/Japan? It looks nice enough but styling a tad dated already does anyone think? Or maybe it was the more base spec ones I've seen about (two taxis).

bazz26

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Market is changing, diesel is bad and hybrid good


A petrol is kind of inbetween



A diesel will depreciate higher than a hybrid in current market. Especially in 3-4 years time when going to trade in the amount of hybrid will be limited compared to diesel so will hold value better

Hybrid still has an ICE that needs fossil fuel so cannot see how it is good.

Also weren't you telling us for the last two years or so that diesel resale values would collapse overnight? I'm still waiting for all these cheap worthless diesels to hit the market.

Shefwedfan

bazz26 wrote: »

Hybrid still has an ICE that needs fossil fuel so cannot see how it is good.

Also weren't you telling us for the last two years or so that diesel resale values would collapse overnight? I'm still waiting for all these cheap worthless diesels to hit the market.

:P

Keep grasping at straws

Which part of my post was incorrect?

PS look at sales figures for 192 cars.....petrol out selling diesel, electric up 195% year on year. Now of course the electric is from a low base it has to be noted....

bazz26

Grasping at straws? That's truly ironic coming from yourself judging by some of your postings on here.

If the government kite flyers are to be believed then hybrid cars will be hit in the budget too but I truly do hope diesel resale values drop as there will be great value in buying them but I've yet to find these cheap diesels as predicted.

But do carry on.

Shefwedfan

bazz26 wrote: »

Grasping at straws? That's truly ironic coming from yourself judging by some of your postings on here.

If the government kite flyers are to be believed then hybrid cars will be hit in the budget too but I truly do hope diesel resale values drop as there will be great value in buying them but I've yet to find these cheap diesels as predicted.

But do carry on.

I will

GusGus

I must say it is a very unusual dilemma . Camry v S60. They are so very different but if that’s what you are into !!!

Personally I don’t think there is a contest . I think the Camry is an older and significantly less attractive car. The comfort and interior of the Volvo is top notch.

Gave you looked at a VW Areton ?

Uncle_moe

GusGus wrote: »

I must say it is a very unusual dilemma . Camry v S60. They are so very different but if that’s what you are into !!!

Personally I don’t think there is a contest . I think the Camry is an older and significantly less attractive car. The comfort and interior of the Volvo is top notch.

Gave you looked at a VW Areton ?

I have just started looking at the Arteon, I think my best bet would be to pick up a high spec on second hand if I could. The only drawback for me is that I'm coming from a Skoda and the interior styling in the Arteon is very similar. All VWs look almost identical inside and I'd like something different.
Didn't think the interior in the V60 was a step up over the Camry by the way.
Yet to sit into the Peugeot but looks nice from online reviews apart from the cabin being very dark.

3rdDegree

road_high wrote: »

How long has that new Camry model been out in the US/Japan? It looks nice enough but styling a tad dated already does anyone think? Or maybe it was the more base spec ones I've seen about (two taxis).

I think the current model is out in the States since 2018. The Platinum spec didn't look old fashioned to me. I think they look lovely, but I guess it's subjective. Interior in cream colour looks very nice. Read some complaints that the amount of buttons on the dash were a bit old fashioned, but I think good old fashioned buttons are much safer than fiddling with a menu system in an on screen display.