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Water charges for excessive usage

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    #752
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Here you go. https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/qa-households-who-use-too-much-water-are-facing-fines--heres-everything-you-need-to-know-937670.html

    “What if I don't have a meter? How will they measure my use?

    Irish Water says that 55% of domestic premises are metered. Through the analysis of water balances, leak alarms and other means, Irish Water says they can identify areas where there appears to be excess use.

    If an area is identified, a leakage and pressure investigation crew will be dispatched to measure supply at different points. This investigation crew can then determine the households that may have excess use.

    And if I still don't have a meter?

    Irish Water will offer you one. If your property can't be metered, a flow monitoring device will be connected to the service pipe to monitor usage and determine if the household has excess use.”

    Would a flow measuring device also be known as a meter and if not why not?
    You genuinely seem to believe every press release IW has issued todate. Your total acceptance of what they say is touching.


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    #753
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,958 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Here you go. https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/qa-households-who-use-too-much-water-are-facing-fines--heres-everything-you-need-to-know-937670.html

    “What if I don't have a meter? How will they measure my use?

    Irish Water says that 55% of domestic premises are metered. Through the analysis of water balances, leak alarms and other means, Irish Water says they can identify areas where there appears to be excess use.

    If an area is identified, a leakage and pressure investigation crew will be dispatched to measure supply at different points. This investigation crew can then determine the households that may have excess use.

    And if I still don't have a meter?

    Irish Water will offer you one. If your property can't be metered, a flow monitoring device will be connected to the service pipe to monitor usage and determine if the household has excess use.”

    IW sure are definite, and precise in their statements about this potential debacle.

    Those with meters already installed will not tolerate this fudge. I will be one of them. Aux Barricades!


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    #754
    Benedict
    Registered Users Posts: 684 ✭✭✭Benedict


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Here you go. https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/qa-households-who-use-too-much-water-are-facing-fines--heres-everything-you-need-to-know-937670.html

    “What if I don't have a meter? How will they measure my use?

    Irish Water says that 55% of domestic premises are metered. Through the analysis of water balances, leak alarms and other means, Irish Water says they can identify areas where there appears to be excess use.

    If an area is identified, a leakage and pressure investigation crew will be dispatched to measure supply at different points. This investigation crew can then determine the households that may have excess use.

    And if I still don't have a meter?

    Irish Water will offer you one. If your property can't be metered, a flow monitoring device will be connected to the service pipe to monitor usage and determine if the household has excess use.”


    I think we all know what IW have "said". But now let's return to the real world. If IW feel that Estate X is using too much, how do you suppose that they will know which home or homes are using too much? "Through the analysis of water balances, leak alarms and other means" - what does that mean? Even if they creep up and look in your kitchen window using a periscope and establish that a tap has been left running, that won't prove the tap is running every day?


    It's no use quoting IW. Just tell us how YOU think they'll find out that No 157 is guilty of using too much per annum and how much over the quota they are using.


    We're listening!


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    #755
    Fanny Wank
    Registered Users Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Fanny Wank


    Lads does anyone think middle Ireland won't be stiffed again?

    I think I'm hearing it in my sleep at this stage


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    #756
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users Posts: 19,474 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Fanny **** wrote: »
    Lads does anything think middle Ireland won't be stiffed again?

    I think I'm hearing it in my sleep at this stage

    I do.

    Let me reassure you.

    Middle Ireland won’t be stiffed again.


    Stiffed once...will not be stiffed twice

    Codhladh samh a chara.


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    #757
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,391 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Fanny **** wrote:
    Lads does anything think middle Ireland won't be stiffed again?


    Not only will middle Ireland be stiffed, so to will be the lower classes


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    #758
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users Posts: 19,474 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Oh.... in what way.... I’m getting worried now, or able to relax.


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    #759
    Benedict
    Registered Users Posts: 684 ✭✭✭Benedict


    IW are banking on the fact that there are gullible people out there who will actually believe that homes with no meter can be billed for using excessive amounts. The fact is that that cannot happen. IW cannot legally send a bill to No 157 Anywhere Road for an extra 50 litres of water if No 157 does not have a meter because IW cannot know that No 157 has used an extra 50 litres. The homeowner can simply say "I didn't use an extra 50 litres, show me the evidence". And since there will be no evidence, they will not have to pay. That is the basic, simple, legal reality.

    If Marianne84 - or anyone else - can say how IW can say to No 157 "You've used an extra 50 litres" if No 157 doesn't have a meter, then would you please tell us. We would all love to know!

    It seems to be quite plain that a house with no meter cannot be accused of using a specific amount of water.

    IW spent 50 million Euro on consultants already and they really need now to spend another few quid in order to solve this conundrum because any fines they collect under this farcical system will eventually have to be returned.


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    #760
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users Posts: 19,474 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Benedict wrote: »
    IW are banking on the fact that there are gullible people out there who will actually believe that homes with no meter can be billed for using excessive amounts. The fact is that that cannot happen. IW cannot legally send a bill to No 157 Anywhere Road for an extra 50 litres of water if No 157 does not have a meter because IW cannot know that No 157 has used an extra 50 litres. The homeowner can simply say "I didn't use an extra 50 litres, show me the evidence". And since there will be no evidence, they will not have to pay. That is the basic, simple, legal reality.

    If Marianne84 - or anyone else - can say how IW can say to No 157 "You've used an extra 50 litres" if No 157 doesn't have a meter, then would you please tell us. We would all love to know!

    It seems to be quite plain that a house with no meter cannot be accused of using a specific amount of water.

    IW spent 50 million Euro on consultants already and they really need now to spend another few quid in order to solve this conundrum because any fines they collect under this farcical system will eventually have to be returned.

    Correct, and that’s why I say that Middle Ireland won’t be stiffed twice.

    Soz if it interfered with any bodies sleep.


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    #761
    Benedict
    Registered Users Posts: 684 ✭✭✭Benedict


    I have said all along that realistically IW cannot establish usage of a home with no meter and therefore cannot charge it with excessive usage. Also, if the plan is that only around 50% of homes are threatened with excessive usage charges, then the plan cannot work in a democracy.

    So therefore, the plan is dead - and no contributors to this thread have shown otherwise.

    If IW are following this thread, they should be thankful to it for showing before they go any further that they are on a journey to nowhere.


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    #762
    Chinasea
    Registered Users Posts: 1,568 ✭✭✭Chinasea


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Not only will middle Ireland be stiffed, so to will be the lower classes

    We should all pay for water usage. NO Waivers either. So called lower class need to pay also. Every one. Water is precious.


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    #763
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Chinasea wrote: »
    We should all pay for water usage. NO Waivers either. So called lower class need to pay also. Every one. Water is precious.

    We already do. Ever heard of tax?


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    #764
    Benedict
    Registered Users Posts: 684 ✭✭✭Benedict


    Chinasea wrote: »
    We should all pay for water usage. NO Waivers either. So called lower class need to pay also. Every one. Water is precious.


    Are you aware that under the current plan, nearly half of IW customers will have a waiver?


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    #765
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Benedict wrote: »
    Are you aware that under the current plan, nearly half of IW customers will have a waiver?

    Change the record. Anyone who wastes water WILL have to face the consequences. Though, the majority of people are civic minded and will conserve. After all, we have to consider our children and grandchildren’s futures and care for the planet.


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    #766
    mikhail
    Registered Users Posts: 3,862 ✭✭✭mikhail


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Change the record. Anyone who wastes water WILL have to face the consequences. Though, the majority of people are civic minded and will conserve. After all, we have to consider our children and grandchildren’s futures and care for the planet.
    Water isn't oil, or lithium, or helium. We're not pumping groundwater in this country. Once we don't go nuts, it's a renewable resource. This talk of conservation annoys me. We teach little kids about the water cycle. Blessington and Roundwood won't be empty for our grandchildren. It feels like Irish Water are so desperate to avoid infrastructural investment that they're a dry month away from issuing stillsuits and advising us to drink our own piss.


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    #767
    Benedict
    Registered Users Posts: 684 ✭✭✭Benedict


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Change the record. Anyone who wastes water WILL have to face the consequences. Though, the majority of people are civic minded and will conserve. After all, we have to consider our children and grandchildren’s futures and care for the planet.


    With respect M84, it's you who needs to change the record.
    You still have not explained exactly how any person without a meter (let alone all people without meters) who waste water will be forced to pay.
    You have already been challenged to explain, now I challenge you again.
    Tell us exactly how a person with no meter in the middle of hundreds of houses also with no meters will be forced to pay?
    No broad statements or spoof - say EXACTLY how.
    You won't though, because even IW can't answer that one!


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    #768
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Benedict wrote: »
    With respect M84, it's you who needs to change the record.
    You still have not explained exactly how any person without a meter (let alone all people without meters) who waste water will be forced to pay.
    You have already been challenged to explain, now I challenge you again.
    Tell us exactly how a person with no meter in the middle of hundreds of houses also with no meters will be forced to pay?
    No broad statements or spoof - say EXACTLY how.
    You won't though, because even IW can't answer that one!

    By process of elimination. Do you think that people are going to be willing to pay for the water being wasted by their neighbours?? I know that I certainly wouldn't.


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    #769
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users Posts: 19,474 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Deleted User wrote: »
    By process of elimination. Do you think that people are going to be willing to pay for the water being wasted by their neighbours?? I know that I certainly wouldn't.

    Middle Ireland were stiffed once on this issue


    They will not be stiffed twice.

    This one won’t get legs.

    Meter one
    Meter all


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    #770
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    By process of elimination. Do you think that people are going to be willing to pay for the water being wasted by their neighbours?? I know that I certainly wouldn't.

    You clearly can't answer the question which was asked. Better just to say so.


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    #771
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Brendan Bendar wrote: »
    Middle Ireland were stiffed once on this issue


    They will not be stiffed twice.

    This one won’t get legs.

    Meter one
    Meter all

    Thousands of dwellings can't be metered.


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    #772
    Fanny Wank
    Registered Users Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Fanny Wank


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    We already do. Ever heard of tax?

    Great I pay f*ckloads of tax - does that mean I can get a free passport when mine expires too?


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    #773
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Fanny **** wrote: »
    Great I pay f*ckloads of tax - does that mean I can get a free passport when mine expires too?

    Free nope , but charged for it twice absolutely not.


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    #774
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Brendan Bendar wrote: »
    Middle Ireland were stiffed once on this issue


    They will not be stiffed twice.

    This one won’t get legs.

    Meter one
    Meter all


    The taxpayer has been stiffed once already with over a Billion euro wasted on FG`s wet dream of a stealth tax on water with all the shady deals and cronyism that was involved.
    Are some here really looking for another Billion euro to be wasted on metering on the basis of some households overusing their allocation. Especially many apartments cannot be individually metered.


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    #775
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Deleted User wrote: »
    By process of elimination. Do you think that people are going to be willing to pay for the water being wasted by their neighbours?? I know that I certainly wouldn't.


    Which can be achieved by district metering for a lot less than wasting yet another Billion euro on individual household water meters.


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    #776
    Fanny Wank
    Registered Users Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Fanny Wank


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Free nope , but charged for it twice absolutely not.

    But I already pay for my passport


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    #777
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Fanny **** wrote: »
    But I already pay for my passport

    Was it a lifetime passport or has it an expiry date?( If you want to make stupid analogies I'll indulge you for a little while).


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    #778
    Fanny Wank
    Registered Users Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Fanny Wank


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Was it a lifetime passport or has it an expiry date?( If you want to make stupid analogies I'll indulge you for a little while).

    How is it stupid?

    Water: can't pay a charge for that, I already pay for it (taxes)

    Why doesn't it apply to passports, birth certs, drivers licences etc?

    Serious question? I genuinely don't see the difference

    My son's birth certificate (that I was charged for) doesn't have an expiration date (though I'm not in anyway seeing how an expiration date is relevant)


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    #779
    joseywhales
    Registered Users Posts: 4,049 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Eh I pay taxes and thousands for my own well and pump house


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    #780
    Living Off The Splash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭Living Off The Splash


    From memory, back in the day, I think I advised Irish Water that there were two adults living in my household. This has now changed......How will this work?


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    #781
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Fanny **** wrote: »
    How is it stupid?

    Water: can't pay a charge for that, I already pay for it (taxes)
    You can if you wish. Send a cheque or cash to IW. Their corporate address is on their website
    Why doesn't it apply to passports, birth certs, drivers licences etc?

    Serious question? I genuinely don't see the difference

    My son's birth certificate (that I was charged for) doesn't have an expiration date (though I'm not in anyway seeing how an expiration date is relevant)
    Think i'm done indulging in stupid analogies, they were stupider than I thought they'd be.


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