Water charges for excessive usage

Benedict

In one sense, the fact that nobody has any argument left in support of the IW plan is a good thing. Every avenue has been examined but clearly no aspect of the plan is workable. In fact, even if the Irish people were to roll over and accept a system where only half the citizens were charged for excessive use, the EU would step in and say "Sorry, you can't do that".

Trying to sell this plan as viable was like entering a 3 legged horse in the Grand National, putting a 20 stone jockey on his back and then hoping that fine arguments (and some prayers) would carry it first past the post.

The Irish people are not fools - but they are fair and reasonable and will look favourably on a new plan.

But it would need to be an improvement on the current fiasco!

Yellow_Fern

Excessive or any charges cant come soon enough. I have a meter and its extremely helpful using to estimate how I am wasting it. The Irish water fiasco is a classic example of how the braindead populist will do anything for power and done so much damage to this country.

Yellow_Fern

charlie14 wrote: »

So what ?
After wasting 70 Million on consultants it was a great idea to spend 650,000 on something that ever child over 6 knew already ?
There was no limit on the amount of taxpayers money those idiots wasted.
Nor it seems idiots that still continue attempting to make excuses for it.


You would be less worn out if you accepted the reality that the clusterf*ck is not only dead it also has a stake through it`s heart.

The ego of the posters is unreal. Every expert can tell you IW in its original form was a great idea.

Benedict

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

The ego of the posters is unreal. Every expert can tell you IW in its original form was a great idea.

Perhaps World War 11 "in its original form was a great idea" too.


So was the marriage of Charles and Diana.

And the building of the Titanic.

charlie14

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

The ego of the posters is unreal. Every expert can tell you IW in its original form was a great idea.

Would that include the, as IW called them, "international experts" that got paid 70M. of taxpayers money for creating the omni-shambles.



I don`t know if they ever posted here, but there were a few whose egos were pretty unreal alright.


Enda Kenny for one promised all and sundry that there would be no charges until we had a world class service.
Phil Hogan who threatened to reduce supply to a trickle.
John Tierney who`s ego was so large after all his f**k ups even applied for the job,plus the morons that gave it too him.
The Labour Party whose collective egos were so unreal that the felt it was grand to lie over charges and then go hell for leather in favour once they had their behinds on cabinet seats.
FG whose ego was so unreal they thought that they could look after old friends, skin the taxpayer and then sell it all off to a private company to skin the taxpayer all over again.


In both cases their egos are well dented since.
Labour then holders of 37 Dail seats are now reduced to 6
FG then holders of 76 Dail seats now reduced to 35.

Benedict

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

The ego of the posters is unreal. Every expert can tell you IW in its original form was a great idea.

"Great ideas" are a dime a dozen. I'll give you one now. Let's give all pensioners a ten Euro rise. How about another one for luck - petrol should be free for anyone with school-going children.


It doesn't take an "expert" to see that these are "great ideas".

The only really "great ideas" are the ones that can work - and the IW plan ain't no "great idea".

(Unless, of course, you're an IW consultant!)

Yellow_Fern

Benedict wrote: »

"Great ideas" are a dime a dozen. I'll give you one now. Let's give all pensioners a ten Euro rise. How about another one for luck - petrol should be free for anyone with school-going children.


It doesn't take an "expert" to see that these are "great ideas".

The only really "great ideas" are the ones that can work - and the IW plan ain't no "great idea".

(Unless, of course, you're an IW consultant!)

Basically you want everything for free. I find that repulsive. If you want a quality water system you have to pay for it, if you want a pension, you have to invest while you work to get it. I am not an IW consultant. I am someone whose only concern is Irelands best interests.

Brendan Bendar

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Basically you want everything for free. I find that repulsive. If you want a quality water system you have to pay for it, if you want a pension, you have to invest while you work to get it. I am not an IW consultant. I am someone whose only concern is Irelands best interests.

A rare breed in fairness.

Plumbthedepths

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

I am someone whose only concern is Irelands best interests.

So I'm sure you were appalled at waste of millions of euro during a time of austerity.

Yellow_Fern

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So I'm sure you were appalled at waste of millions of euro during a time of austerity.

Yes, reform costs money especially in Ireland. It would have at least achieved something if the selfish water protesters acted like adults and accepted clean water is a commodity that costs money to produce. Even the USSR has water charges. Left wingism is deeply ingrained in this country.

Brendan Bendar

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Yes, reform costs money especially in Ireland. It would have at least achieved something if the selfish water protesters acted like adults and accepted clean water is a commodity that costs money to produce. Even the USSR has water charges. Left wingism is deeply ingrained in this country.

Correct, the pay for nothing brigade.

Plumbthedepths

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Yes, reform costs money especially in Ireland. It would have at least achieved something if the selfish water protesters acted like adults and accepted clean water is a commodity that costs money to produce. Even the USSR has water charges. Left wingism is deeply ingrained in this country.

Reform? Laughing yoga, bonuses? An extra layer of administration? An expensive collection system. If it was genuine reform, a charge on every dwelling in the country collected by revenue. Job done.

Plumbthedepths

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Reform? Laughing yoga, bonuses? An extra layer of administration? An expensive collection system. If it was genuine reform, a charge on every dwelling in the country collected by revenue. Job done.

Why revenue? What’s wrong with everyone paying for what they use/waste. You know, the mature adult way. Taking responsibility for using or wasting.

Plumbthedepths

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why revenue? What’s wrong with everyone paying for what they use/waste. You know, the mature adult way. Taking responsibility for using or wasting.

Simple everyone without exception pays. Collection system already in place and very effective. Also it deals with many people's concern of a future sell off.

charlie14

Deleted User wrote: »

Why revenue? What’s wrong with everyone paying for what they use/waste. You know, the mature adult way. Taking responsibility for using or wasting.

The real pertinent question is why not revenue.

charlie14

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Basically you want everything for free. I find that repulsive. If you want a quality water system you have to pay for it, if you want a pension, you have to invest while you work to get it. I am not an IW consultant. I am someone whose only concern is Irelands best interests.

I wish people would grow up, or at least get their facts right.
Water services were never free. They were paid for by way of general taxation.
They are still paid for by way of general taxation and now from the LPT as well.

charlie14

charlie14 wrote: »

The real pertinent question is why not revenue.

Do Revenue collect your electric or phone charges? Pay for what you use. It’s the fairest, grown up mature way.

Benedict

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Basically you want everything for free. I find that repulsive. If you want a quality water system you have to pay for it, if you want a pension, you have to invest while you work to get it. I am not an IW consultant. I am someone whose only concern is Irelands best interests.

If you took the time to read the contributions you'd see that I have no problem about paying for water (I hope you got that now). But the system has to be fair and charging one half of the users while accepting that the other half go free is simply not acceptable.
Would you accept laws that apply to you but not to the people around the corner?
If you would, then the current IW plan should make you very happy indeed.

charlie14

Deleted User wrote: »

Do Revenue collect your electric or phone charges? Pay for what you use. It’s the fairest, grown up mature way.

Why would Revenue collect charges for Energia, Electric Ireland, Panda Power, Vodafone, Three Ireland, Virgin Media etc.etc. ?
None of those are, unlike Irish Water, state owned and controlled companies.
Revenue are ultimately responsible for te collection of LPT, so any ideas why IW charges were not legislated likewise for collection by that FG/Labour government



Would it be by any chance that by doing so it would have made privatisation impossible :rolleyes:


Btw, any news on that legislation we were promised by FG on ensuring water services would never be privatised, or has it just been left on the shelf gathering dust like the Moriarty Tribunal report ?

BanditLuke

Deleted User wrote: »

Do Revenue collect your electric or phone charges? Pay for what you use. It’s the fairest, grown up mature way.

We already pay through taxes.

Maewyn Succat

BanditLuke wrote: »

We already pay through taxes.

How's that working out? Why is the infrastructure in such disrepair?

Benedict

Once the new Government is formed, the whole notion of water charges will be back on the agenda. First though, they will have to unravel the dreadful mess. Best to shred the entire plan and start all over again from scratch. The meters were a complete waste of money and they will never be used. So all they can do is continue to pay from the tax they receive and forget the "excessive use" charge because it can't be measured in homes without a meter.

The amount of money which has been wasted already is staggering.

Benedict

Benedict wrote: »

Once the new Government is formed, the whole notion of water charges will be back on the agenda. First though, they will have to unravel the dreadful mess. Best to shred the entire plan and start all over again from scratch. The meters were a complete waste of money and they will never be used. So all they can do is continue to pay from the tax they receive and forget the "excessive use" charge because it can't be measured in homes without a meter.

The amount of money which has been wasted already is staggering.

And YOU want to spend more starting over?? Words. Fail. Me.

Idbatterim

housing health etc a farce, nobody could care less about water charges any more. And they arent worth bothering with, the usuals will have exemptions and it would be charged at a pittance any way. Like LPT. They can fund it, by just not wasting huge sums each budget and if they dont have it (through LPT or water charges) they cant waste it

charlie14

Maewyn Succat wrote: »

How's that working out? Why is the infrastructure in such disrepair?

Same reason as health and housing. Poor management of taxpayers money.


Do you somehow believe that Irish Water, another expensive layer of management, was going to improve water or wastewater services when the 250 euro household charge would not even cover their overheads ?

BanditLuke

Maewyn Succat wrote: »

How's that working out? Why is the infrastructure in such disrepair?

Mismanagement.

Benedict

There are only a limited number of alternatives. Imposing charges on metered homes while leaving unmetered homes free of all charges is not a proposition. Installing meters in every home is not a proposition either because like before, residents would come out in force to prevent installation. (In any event, IW don't even bother attempting to install meters anymore.) So the only two alternatives are (1) Completely forget about charges or (2) Pay out of taxes so every user pays.

If anyone has another workable alternative, it would be interesting to hear it.

Sleeper12

Deleted User wrote: »

Do Revenue collect your electric or phone charges? Pay for what you use. It’s the fairest, grown up mature way.

While I agree with you, it's worth remembering had FG started with a flat 100 euro charge collected by revenue, we would have proper water charges in place by now & not this excessive usage nonsense that can't possibly work,


Revenue was the route FG should have started with. It could have been transferred to Irish water once up & running.

Benedict

Benedict wrote: »

There are only a limited number of alternatives. Imposing charges on metered homes while leaving unmetered homes free of all charges is not a proposition. Installing meters in every home is not a proposition either because like before, residents would come out in force to prevent installation. (In any event, IW don't even bother attempting to install meters anymore.) So the only two alternatives are (1) Completely forget about charges or (2) Pay out of taxes so every user pays.

If anyone has another workable alternative, it would be interesting to hear it.

Or (3) Give customers the choice of metered or flat rate charges. That way those of us who conserve, don’t have to pay for others wastefulness.

charlie14

Deleted User wrote: »

Or (3) Give customers the choice of metered or flat rate charges. That way those of us who conserve, don’t have to pay for others wastefulness.

At this stage you are just throwing out the first rubbish that crosses your mind attempting to keep the FG wet dream alive in nobody`s head but your own.

Flat rate charges do not encourage conservation.