Hotel Workers - Rock bottom pay

Plumbthedepths

Just for kicks and giggles I will relate my experience of the hospitality industry. I went to third level to train for a career in hotels. After 2 years I received my qualification secured employment. Worked for a 5 star hotel where the wages allowed a good lifestyle. I was only a young fellow at the time but my colleagues were far older with families and their wage was able to support their family. Now we have a situation where the hospitality sector charges some of the highest prices in Europe but feels its staff deserve the minimum allowed and is lobbying government to be allowed recruit workers from outside the EU. Why? Answer because even our Eastern European friends are refusing to work for a pitence. By the way the hotel I worked in was in Galway in the early 90's. Prices have risen, wages...work it out.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Redsky121 wrote: »

If people are bitching about their low wages they should actually do something about it.

Honestly the stupidity in this thread.

There will always be hotel and other bottom rung low paid workers. It’s good for all of us that they get paid well.

HamSarris

The ‘upskill and get a better job’ is the let them eat cake of our generation. If everyone upskills and becomes a manager, who stacks the shelves and fills the potholes? Across the Western World, especially in the last decade, we’ve seen a proliferation in chiefs relative to Indians. This will be become obvious in the next recession as middle management who contribute nothing get laid off at a faster rate than blue collar workers.

Approximately 50% of the variance in people’s outcomes in life are related to factors out of their control – the wealth of their family, supportive teachers and mentors, personal connections etc. When people are succeeding the proportion they attribute to luck drops to zero – it’s all me and my hard work. When people are failing, such as when a recession hits, it’s all to do with the government, the banks, the immigrants etc. Watch the amount of IT people that will be on here in two years cribbing and moaning about how unfair life is.

You can never be sure of the value of any career path and they tend to go in cycles –

Stage 1) Not much interest in a career because it is boring, underpaid, too hard
Stage 2) Few people apply for career creating a shortage
Stage 3) Due to shortage, employers increase wages and improve working conditions to attract workers.
Stage 4) More people get attracted to the career
Stage 5) An oversupply of workers occurs, reducing wages and working conditions


Based on these stages, IT is currently an overvalued career path and nursing is an undervalued career path. Nurses currently earn 57k, IT professionals earn 60k – nurses should plough ahead during a recession.

Necro

cena wrote:

raise minimum wage to 20 euro an hour

Doesn't work, cost of living just increases to follow suit.

Like in Australia my first job as supervisor in a roadhouse I was on 40 AUD per hour, the other workers were on about 22 - 24.

Cost of everything was relative though.

Milk would be about 5 dollars for 2 litres in the main supermarket's (and 7 out in the roadhouse, gotta have that bonkers mark up on everything)

Anyways the workers were paid more but they didn't see the benefits you'd expect, given everything is much more expensive out in Australia.

LirW

HamSarris wrote: »

The ‘upskill and get a better job’ is the let them eat cake of our generation. If everyone upskills and becomes a manager, who stacks the shelves and fills the potholes? Across the Western World, especially in the last decade, we’ve seen a proliferation in chiefs relative to Indians. This will be become obvious in the next recession as middle management who contribute nothing get laid off at a faster rate than blue collar workers.

Approximately 50% of the variance in people’s outcomes in life are related to factors out of their control – the wealth of their family, supportive teachers and mentors, personal connections etc. When people are succeeding the proportion they attribute to luck drops to zero – it’s all me and my hard work. When people are failing, such as when a recession hits, it’s all to do with the government, the banks, the immigrants etc. Watch the amount of IT people that will be on here in two years cribbing and moaning about how unfair life is.

You can never be sure of the value of any career path and they tend to go in cycles –

Stage 1) Not much interest in a career because it is boring, underpaid, too hard
Stage 2) Few people apply for career creating a shortage
Stage 3) Due to shortage, employers increase wages and improve working conditions to attract workers.
Stage 4) More people get attracted to the career
Stage 5) An oversupply of workers occurs, reducing wages and working conditions


Based on these stages, IT is currently an overvalued career path and nursing is an undervalued career path. Nurses currently earn 57k, IT professionals earn 60k – nurses should plough ahead during a recession.

I agree with what you're saying, just pointing out that this cycle doesn't automatically apply to all professions.

Let's take chef's, it's a tough demanding jobs that requires a lot of training if you want to be good. Many kitchens managers have no shame to cut every corner possible to save every cent possible.
Good chefs are hard to find, it's been like that for a while. The field is notorious for drug abuse and alcoholism, the burn out rate is crazy high.
But cooking is a job that requires a lot of passion, if that's not there you won't be sending out good food.

It's a notoriously rough field but without it we wouldn't be eating out. Culinary courses are overrated and experienced chefs don't care about your Ballymaloe diploma, you either cut it or you don't. There's no upskilling to head chef, it's just years of hard, tiring work under pretty crap conditions with pretty crap pay. You either put up with it and fight until it eventually might pay off (no guarantee) or you leave. There is a shortage of cooks and especially good cooks but employers make little initiative to make the field more attractive because many wouldn't have a problem to hire a kid that can hardly get pasta al dente as line cook instead of paying a great chef two euros more an hour in order to keep him and send the signal: keep up the great work, you got us and we got you.

inforfun

MOD

Closing this for now so it can be moved (back) to a more appropriate forum

[mod]I think this thread belongs here[/mod]

WoolyJumper

I think people are forgetting that the tourism/hospitality industry is a major part of the Irish economy. It's true that not everyone is suited to education, offie jobs etc. That does not make you stupid or less that anyone else. It also doesn't mean they don't work hard. The hours are awful and it can be incredibly stressful. Constantly busy. Employee law often goes ignored in hotels.

I know someone who has worked in hotels since leaving school at 16 (she is in no way stupid, has since gone on to do business courses). She has been in the industry for nearly 20 years and has worked her way up to a management position. Still on less than 30k and now works all the overtime in the world but doesn't get paid for it because she is on a salary. She is the hardest worker I know and works much longer hours and harder than me but I still get paid more than her. I have tried to convince her to move on from hotel work but its all she knows now and overall enjoys the work she does. That doesn't mean she doesn't deserve a better wage, fairer hours.

Minimally the industry needs to create better working conditions for its employees. More staff, better shifts and better pay for anti social hours. No more ignoring the 11 hour rule. Throw in some benefits like a healthcare scheme and with tips and overtime you earn it might be a decent enough industry to work in. The pay really should be better though. 22k is fine if you work in a hotel in Clare or Kerry but if you are in Dublin or Cork that is not a liveable wage. Hotels can charge a much higher premium for rooms in the city so they can afford to pay their staff better.

CosmicFool

I worked for minimum wage at one time. I did the minimum amount of work. I can't understand employers expecting workers to go through hoops for minimum wage. If you want better workers then pay them better.

Jim2007

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

This is a nonsense argument. Economically illiterate nonsense but always trotted out. The Hotels that survived a few years ago on low occupancy rates and 80€ rooms are now filled up to 100% and 200€ a night. They clearly have room to pay more to staff by eating into profits.

If very easy to state that that is nonsense and then fail to provide any other solution... The unpleasant reality is that it is not nonsense, it is exactly that way - if you up the minimum wage then it will get passed on to the consumers, who are already complaining about the cost of an overnight. So what is your magic solution???

Mr. teddywinkles

Redsky121 wrote: »

If you don't like the job then quit.

Yep and the same people give out about people on dole and why don't they work in these type of jobs. Ya couldnt make up this ****e

lainey_d_123

LirW wrote: »

That's good on you, I'm not joking but not everyone is in the same situation. Some are so stretched with their bills that upskilling is a struggle, others simply aren't smart enough because they never say their leaving cert or are academically useless. For others it's the only line of work available because they don't live where the highly paid jobs are and can't afford it.

Where I live 80% of all jobs in a 40km radius is hotel work. Commuting to Dublin is 2+ hours in peak traffic. Unemployment is quite high, educational standard is low.

Sometimes having any job is better than having none. Doesn't take the right away from people to give out about their working conditions if they are genuinely bad.

Do you think I didn't face such challenges? I graduated in 2008 right when the economy went to sh1t and ended up washing pots in a bar on the Costa del Sol. Couldn't even find a hospitality job anywhere near me. Had years of sh1t and living in poverty and periods of ill health where I could barely work at all, but still felt that the only way to change things was to do it myself instead of just giving out. I don't think it's fair that hotels are so scabby with wages, but has anyone ever got anywhere by just complaining about it? I could see myself that doing a job literally anyone with a pulse could do means competing with people who are willing to work for even less money and have even fewer rights.

I can't speak for everyone. I just know that most of the people I worked with could have done something about it if they had really wanted to, but they seem to almost enjoy just giving out in the pub.

Mr. teddywinkles

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Do you think I didn't face such challenges? I graduated in 2008 right when the economy went to sh1t and ended up washing pots in a bar on the Costa del Sol. Couldn't even find a hospitality job anywhere near me. Had years of sh1t and living in poverty and periods of ill health where I could barely work at all, but still felt that the only way to change things was to do it myself instead of just giving out. I don't think it's fair that hotels are so scabby with wages, but has anyone ever got anywhere by just complaining about it? I could see myself that doing a job literally anyone with a pulse could do means competing with people who are willing to work for even less money and have even fewer rights.

I can't speak for everyone. I just know that most of the people I worked with could have done something about it if they had really wanted to, but they seem to almost enjoy just giving out in the pub.

As has been pointed out. Not all excel academically. Different circumstance for each person. But doesn't mean ya need to be dogged out of it for **** pay in these type of jobs either which clearly people work hard work in. If everyone ascended to the top. It would devalue that work too. Asking for a living wage ain't much to ask now is it. We're not talking brain surgeon salaries.

mikemac2

I did quite a few years in hotels as a student and then for under a year after college

I was never fired once. Not that wasn't an achievement as hotels rarely fire casual staff. Instead your hours get slashed and given to a new hire and eventually you leave.

I do not know the solution to zero hours contracts and possibly they suit some workers. But I remember speaking up about finishing at 4am and being told to be in for breakfast shift and surprise, surprise, my hours were slashed to near nothing. Statutory minimum rest periods ha

People sneer at McDonalds and do you want fries with that but they were much a better employer than any Irish hotel I was in. And cleaner too! McDonalds should do more to advertise their amazing hygiene, it is better than high priced hotels

OMM 0000

It's an odd one alright. I worked in a few hotels (and restaurants) when I was a student and I remember the managers telling me their salaries... it was barely above minimum wage.

I can understand working in a hotel if you have no choice, but if you do have a choice, why would you work there?

Plumbthedepths

OMM 0000 wrote:

I can understand working in a hotel if you have no choice, but if you do have a choice, why would you work there?

I quit hotels years ago, the pay was good but the hours and lack of social life was the kicker for me. I worked with people who loved their job and the customer service it entailed. The funny thing is I travel alot and the contempt Irish people have for those working in the hospitality sector versus what I see aboard is stark. Regardless of the position it seems most people in this country are ok with others being paid as little as possible. I could understand if the sector was not extremely profitable but it is and is just greed that that drives the behaviour.
The industry has a serious problem with recruitment and retention instead of addressing it as any other business would( realistic pay and conditions) they wish to circumvent visa rules to get cheap labour from outside the EU.

DoozerT6

I worked in a hotel restaurant years ago, many's the time I finished at 3am after a busy night, got home, and had to get up again at 6 for the breakfast shift. I would be dead on my feet and falling asleep on the bus on the way home afterwards. I got one weekend off in 6 months. I eventually got out of there, but I went back a few times as casual staff for weddings. I actually enjoyed that, as it's relatively low-pressure if organised well; you're just shoving food out to the guests and clearing the tables after. Haven't worked in that industry for many years and would hope to never do it again.

But someone has to. The work by its nature can be physical and tiring. I don't know if the hours will ever improve; most hotels will need staff starting at 6/7am, and someone has to be there to clear up after a function that might end at 3am. Proper pay and decent shifts where you get proper rest between shifts would help, with guaranteed time/weekends off and decent staff facilities/food etc. But that would probably mean hiring more staff and having much more strictly enforced regulations.

Lily_Aldrin7

Speaking of the problem with recruiting in hotels due to the ****ty pay and conditions- it’s again the poor staff working twice as hard due to the inability of the management to find more staff.
Now that it’s summer and the hotel I work in is super busy, the poor housekeepers have to work 6 days every week and work until they drop dead every day. A nice Irish girl came for an interview for a housekeeper yesterday and when she heard it’s minimum wage and they deduct staff lunch money every day she just left right away 😀

fryup

Bigbagofcans wrote: »

It does. But, some sectors should have higher minimum wages than others IMO.

Minimum wage is €9.80 per hour. Living wage is €12.30 per hour.

€9.80, €12.30....who comes with these figures??

at the end of the day its all circumstantial ....you could be on the minimum wage and living with you're folks leading a handy life

Pineapple1

Had a trial for a housekeeping job last week, Im a student, was told id get a call early this week about if Id got the job...no call yet. Im wondering if it was a lucky escape after reading this thread. I was sweating buckets in the rooms, gave it my all, did well in the solo time trial, my god it is tough work..

Plumbthedepths

Pineapple1 wrote:

Had a trial for a housekeeping job last week, Im a student, was told id get a call early this week about if Id got the job...no call yet. Im wondering if it was a lucky escape after reading this thread. I was sweating buckets in the rooms, gave it my all, did well in the solo time trial, my god it is tough work..

McDonald's, Burger King, Dunnes , Tesco's far better employers than any hotel .

freshpopcorn

Pineapple1 wrote: »

Had a trial for a housekeeping job last week, Im a student, was told id get a call early this week about if Id got the job...no call yet. Im wondering if it was a lucky escape after reading this thread. I was sweating buckets in the rooms, gave it my all, did well in the solo time trial, my god it is tough work..

How did the inspection of the room go?

Bigbagofcans

CosmicFool wrote: »

I worked for minimum wage at one time. I did the minimum amount of work. I can't understand employers expecting workers to go through hoops for minimum wage. If you want better workers then pay them better.

I worked a minimum wage job in the hospitality sector and I worked hard for every single cent - toughest job I've had.

topper75

goose2005 wrote: »

So if everyone worked hard in school everyone would have good jobs? How would that work, 5 million network admins? You're always going to have unskilled labour and need someone to do it, that doesn't mean that unskilled workers 'deserve' to be crushed

Under the capitalist system (thank God we have it here) you are free to retrain in any field you like if you feel 'crushed'. You can even borrow money to fund your studies. You have the terrifying freedom of having to choose yourself what skills you want to acquire and sell to would-be employers.
Under the socialist system, like USSR, not so. Remain crushed.

5 million network admins means that now pays peanuts. Dynamic market in the medium/long term. So people retrain. Market Equilbrium!
Though some doubt its existence ha ha

topper75

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Honestly the stupidity in this thread.

There will always be hotel and other bottom rung low paid workers. It’s good for all of us that they get paid well.

'All of us' are not paying them anything.
It is the employers who are paying them.
You run a business by keeping costs down and revenue up.
If it is not working for you and feel you are too lowly paid - borrow and start your own business.

Seanachai

Bigbagofcans wrote: »

I worked a minimum wage job in the hospitality sector and I worked hard for every single cent - toughest job I've had.

I worked a min wage job in a sawmills where I saw the son of the owner throw a chainsaw (non-running) at a Polish worker, it was like being in the 1800's at times.

fryup

fryup wrote: »

€9.80, €12.30....who comes with these figures??

at the end of the day its all circumstantial ....you could be on the minimum wage and living with you're folks leading a handy life

The minimum wage increases incrementally over time. Nobody came up with that number, they took the old number and added a bit onto it and made that the new minimum wage.

Living with your folks - I mean yeah you can earn nothing at all and live a handy life if your parents are wealthy enough and willing to put up with you. So what?

Sky King

Always Tired wrote: »

Im guessing people like you hold that opinion to justify not tipping.

No, I use the fact that i have already paid for the service to justify not tipping

mariaalice

Sky King wrote: »

No, I use the fact that i have already paid for the service to justify not tipping

Dont ever take anyone on a date and do that screams mean and will kill any potential unless its a fellow miser.
,
A lot of industries are poorly paid, creches for example.