Insurance for kids parties - Waiver

clint_silver

Local GAA club. Hire out function room for kids parties. we only hire to members but non-members kids attend.

Now if we get a claim against us how can this be mitigated. Other dedicated venues like a kidzone type place make you sign a waiver.

Is this enough? Is that waiver a legal piece of paper and enough to protect the business owner against any and all claims by someone who signed the waiver?

pedroeibar1

It's not sufficient protection, even if drafted by a solicitor. Generally any reputable owner/operator of a well-managed hall would require proof of insurance before allowing the premises be used by a third party.

SEPT 23 1989

Not worth the paper it’s written on

Gloomtastic!

Unfortunately, the big reinsurer of the events industry, LeisureInsure, has announced it’s pulling out of the Irish market.
https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/thousands-of-jobs-at-risk-after-main-insurer-for-leisure-sector-pulls-out-38329493.html

As for disclaimers, have a look at JumpZone for theirs. I think the fact people have to sign one may discourage false claims.

ironclaw

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

As for disclaimers, have a look at JumpZone for theirs. I think the fact people have to sign one may discourage false claims.

Speaking as part of the sector, they don't. One reason for the claims culture has been the willingness for insurers to payout. As a small silver lining, assuming no insurer steps in, if the money gravy train dries up then perhaps claims will fall. It's a hell of a lot harder to get money from a company as you actually have to fight them for it than it is from an insurance company, and you have the risks of costs if its a bogus claim. Remember, many claims go uncontested due to the willingness to just payout.

I'd imagine we're going to start seeing a lot of venues operating as an 'at your own risk' basis and I hope the law comes in line to help this. I'm not advocating operating without insurance but it would be nice if we started to put some responsibility on people.

pedroeibar1

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Unfortunately, the big reinsurer of the events industry, LeisureInsure, has announced it’s pulling out of the Irish market. …..As for disclaimers, have a look at JumpZone for theirs. I think the fact people have to sign one may discourage false claims.

Nitpick - Leisureinsure is not a reinsurer or even an insurer, it is an intermediary and earns commission from the business placed with insurers, like AXA XL. It most likely pulled out (reluctantly) following AXA’s refusal to provide cover in the Irish market.
I also disagree with your position on disclaimers. People will ‘try it on’ until they are punished for false/exaggerated claims. They will be encouraged by fee-hungry lawyers who will take the case on an out-of-pocket expenses up front, no foal, no fee basis. For an outlay of a few hundred on affidavits, filing fees, etc. the punter has little to lose, and the lawyer has much to gain and a fair idea of the success possibility when taking the case, so s/he won’t waste time. No downside as I’m unaware of any fraudster being prosecuted on any grounds (perjury, fraud, whatever) or any solicitor being heavily censured. In the OP’s case, I’d be quite certain that, regardless of any waiver, following an accident the local GAA hall would be joined in the proceedings on several grounds, one being for not requiring the operator to have proper insurance.

ironclaw wrote: »

…... One reason for the claims culture has been the willingness for insurers to payout……… It's a hell of a lot harder to get money from a company as you actually have to fight them for it than it is from an insurance company, and you have the risks of costs if its a bogus claim. Remember, many claims go uncontested due to the willingness to just payout.
I'd imagine we're going to start seeing a lot of venues operating as an 'at your own risk' basis and I hope the law comes in line to help this. I'm not advocating operating without insurance but it would be nice if we started to put some responsibility on people.

Yes, it is harder to get money from a company than an insurer. The insurer has (usually) decades of experience and knows / has a very good idea of how a case will go. They even do their utmost to avoid certain members of the judiciary in the knowledge of stupid pay-out awards. If an insurer has a doubtful case in front of a ‘generous’ judge, they will offer a plaintiff PFO money to settle, in the knowledge that the fees, if the case is fought, would be considerable. The lawyers know this and will accept cash today instead of a long wait on the courts list and an even longer wait for costs to be taxed. OTOH a company often does not have the assets to make a law case against it worthwhile. And it takes a long time for a case to come to court, so perhaps we will see companies operating for a set period and then liquidating, just as builders did years ago to avoid guarantees.

It is a simple case of ethics – making a quick buck dishonestly, or having an ethical stance. Sadly, when we see zero activity by the Gardaí, and several politicians suing on specious grounds, and regulators with zero memory of recent events (retiring on topped-up pensions), and directors of companies misusing company funds, and watchdogs like ODCE officials shredding documents, all getting away with it, it is quite easy to understand why foreign insurers view Ireland’s insurance market as a basket case.

TheWaterboy

clint_silver wrote: »

Local GAA club. Hire out function room for kids parties. we only hire to members but non-members kids attend.

Now if we get a claim against us how can this be mitigated. Other dedicated venues like a kidzone type place make you sign a waiver.

Is this enough? Is that waiver a legal piece of paper and enough to protect the business owner against any and all claims by someone who signed the waiver?

Simple matter is that it cannot be mitigated. Regardless if the kids are members of the GAA CLub or non members they aren't covered by the GAA insurance. The GAA Club are liable. Get the club to purchase separate insurance for these type of events. If the cost of the insurance is more than what you are making on parties then just stop doing them. There are a few claims out there currently where the GAA Club are 100% liable. I've investigated all this for our own GAA Club and we just stopped having parties as it's not worth the risk.

clint_silver

TheWaterboy wrote: »

Simple matter is that it cannot be mitigated. Regardless if the kids are members of the GAA CLub or non members they aren't covered by the GAA insurance. The GAA Club are liable. Get the club to purchase separate insurance for these type of events. If the cost of the insurance is more than what you are making on parties then just stop doing them. There are a few claims out there currently where the GAA Club are 100% liable. I've investigated all this for our own GAA Club and we just stopped having parties as it's not worth the risk.

thanks for all replies. Yeah I know the one in liexlip was a big one for bouncy castles. You wont see an inflatable inside the door of a GAA ground again.

As we have a bar and function room, the thinking of insurance for all events would have to stretch to all parties then, communions, christenings etc. As the same risk would be there, kids doing kids things.

So we either get insurance for all of these or we just stop all of them. What do places like hotels/bars do for this?

Is there any onus on the host of the party here? The GAA club are only providing the venue, assuming there's no negligence here and the child just fell over doing childrens things, could or would that childs parent sue the host if the same thing happened in the hosts house and if so then isnt the host liable?

clint_silver

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

It's not sufficient protection, even if drafted by a solicitor. Generally any reputable owner/operator of a well-managed hall would require proof of insurance before allowing the premises be used by a third party.

This a line of thought I was exploring in the post above, that the host of the party has insurance (house insurance extension maybe) that will cover any incident. The GAA club is only providing the venue, the host is responsible.

pedroeibar1

clint_silver wrote: »

This a line of thought I was exploring in the post above, that the host of the party has insurance (house insurance extension maybe) that will cover any incident. The GAA club is only providing the venue, the host is responsible.

The GAA Club is providing a venue. It has an obligation to ensure that the venue is safe and that the participants at any event in its premises can have ‘safe enjoyment’ of the facilities. Children have to be supervised and seen to be supervised. After any mishap the club will be seen as a ‘deep pocket’ in any potential lawsuit and thus a prime target. A household policy will not be extended by an insurer to cover an event at a GAA club for a policyholder.
As for hotels mentioned in an earlier post, they do have insurance, but PL is just one of the many covers they pay for (others are fire, theft, employers liability, motor, business interruption, etc.) so premiums are substantial. Years ago in my local hotel a kid (+/- 12 yrs) was told three times to stop running in the pool area. He eventually slipped, fell and sprained an ankle. The parents wanted the bill for their stay to be torn up (not done), issued proceedings after they got home and he was awarded £30k.