Are hybrids worthwhile, or a nonsense filler technology?

Can anyone explain hybrid to me?


I know, it's a basic and silly question, one which could be googled, but as far as I am aware, you don't plug it in, the petrol (or diesel?) engine charges the electric battery when the car is running and when the car has charged it's own electric usage to a usable standard, it auto-switches over to benefit from the electrical aspect of what's under the bonnet?

Theoretically, saving you fuel/emissions for the periods where you're driving on the electrical charge, rather than the petrol you put into it.


The reason I'm not just googling it, is because I'm more interested in hearing perhaps from people that may have first-hand experience of them around our little country (does a cold, wet winter mean you're just on petrol mode all the time?)





If i recall correctly, someone (on boards) not too long ago had a post fairly substantially claiming that hybrids were a nonsense technology and a waste of time, that they didn't actually benefit anyone that much or cost much less to run, however, certain manufacturers had so heavily invested in them that there was no choice but to sell them and promote them heavily as the future (I think Toyota took a hammering in that person's opinion).



I'm someone who will definitely be in need of a new car within a year, and I won't buy anything til after the budget. With about 15-20k to spend (max) Mooching online, I came across a few Outlander Hybrids. I'm assuming these won't get hammered in the budget as they're seen as eco-friendly, but i am wondering, are they actually any better than just having a petrol/diesel engine on it's own.




My work involves driving, and is on like a random 6 week cycle, where for about a week of the 6 weeks, I'll do up to 1,000km per day, out from that i'll do about 300km a day for a week of the 6 weeks and for the other month the car will be just pottering down to the local shop. For the times I'm driving, im against the clock, so stopping to charge would rule out a car (ie; full electric wouldn't suit me).

Mike9832

No plug

No good

Mike9832

Mike9832 wrote: »

No plug

No good

Very insightful and helpful. I'm also glad you managed to post it within a minute of my OP, meaning i know you've read and understand my post, and didn't just type some random shite to seem witty.


I shall research your thesis further, and hopefully come to the same scientific conclusions you have.

Mike9832

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I shall research your thesis further, and hopefully come to the same scientific conclusions you have.

You will

Not being smart btw

josip

Deleted User wrote: »

...I'm someone who will definitely be in need of a new car within a year...

Is this the end of the C4 or was that already gone?


Btw, I don't see any point in Hybrid (for me), plug in or otherwise.
Too much unnecessary tech in there.

cruizer101

Hybrids are a good technology but in terms of going green and good for the environment they can't really be compared to electric cars (plug in hybrids excluded)
At the end of the day all the energy they use still comes from the fuel you fill them up with. What they do is use it more efficiently than pure ICE vehicles, they recover some energy that would be wasted in vehicle braking.

They really shouldn't been seen as anything more than slightly more fuel efficient than normal ICE vehicles, which is still a good thing.

Midnight_EG

My partner has a 2011 Fit, we picked it up last July. €42 fills it and she get's close to 700km to a tank with nearly no city driving. €170 tax and very little running costs makes it a no brainer. I'm considering a larger saloon hybrid because of this.

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

Can anyone explain hybrid to me?

Two main versions of hybrid


1) Hybrid where all the energy comes from a petrol engine
2) Plugin Hybrid (aka PHEV) where some is from the electricity grid and some is from a petrol engine


The first one is what most people know and understand as hybrid.... basically Toyota's range of cars.


Those hybrids have a "tiny" battery that is used to capture the energy that would normally be wasted when you press the brakes on your non-hybrid car.

When you press the brake pedal on a hybrid it doesnt actually engage the brakes (unless you look to stop quickly). It then uses the energy that the car has (forward motion) to spin a motor/generator (think of the dynamo on a bicycle) which generates electricity and charges that tiny battery. That energy can then be used to propel the car when you press the accelerator so you have "saved" some energy and thus get higher mpg than you would in your non-hybrid.


Plugin hybrid is similar but it has a much larger battery (~10kWh vs 1kWh) and that battery is charged from your house and you can drive entirely on that energy and when the battery is dead the engine kicks in. If your daily driving is within the range of the car you can drive entirely on electric. If you are doing Dublin-Cork then you will use the electricity in the battery and then burn petrol after that.

josip

josip wrote: »

Is this the end of the C4 or was that already gone?


Btw, I don't see any point in Hybrid (for me), plug in or otherwise.
Too much unnecessary tech in there.

C5 has been gone a while. Brother used it for a while (Without a problem in the world, naturally :rolleyes: ) but then he sold it on when he had no use for it anymore.


I'm in a 1.8 Mondeo that I bought off a boardsie on the cheap, however I'm near the 200km mark on it now, and im fearful it's NCT will be a few euro to get it over the line. So I'm trying to look forward and make a sensible decision on a change of car.


I was considering buying a brand new micra, as they tend to be reliable, but realised it was gonna be probably a bit too small and not suited for my extra-long journeys (though i still think it's a lovely car) so I started looking at the Outlander when one of those popped up on Donedeal.


I don't fully grasp the plug-in tech to be honest. I'm the kinda person that's not really into technology or such anymore. Lost all interest and so haven't really a notion what the difference is between BEV/PHEV or the other names I see thrown around here.


All I know is i want a somewhat comfortable, reliable car that won't cost a fortune. And I've a feeling that this will be the budget that's gonna do a lot of damage to the petrol/diesel market. So trying to do my bit of basic research on the Hybrid area of cars. Full electric wouldn't suit me.

ELM327

We have a 2008 prius hybrid, useless as a diesel gets better mpg.

KCross

KCross wrote: »

Two main versions of hybrid


1) Hybrid where all the energy comes from a petrol engine
2) Plugin Hybrid (aka PHEV) where some is from the electricity grid and some is from a petrol engine


The first one is what most people know and understand as hybrid.... basically Toyota's range of cars.


Those hybrids have a "tiny" battery that is used to capture the energy that would normally be wasted when you press the brakes on your non-hybrid car.

When you press the brake pedal on a hybrid it doesnt actually engage the brakes (unless you look to stop quickly). It then uses the energy that the car has (forward motion) to spin a motor/generator (think of the dynamo on a bicycle) which generates electricity and charges that tiny battery. That energy can then be used to propel the car when you press the accelerator so you have "saved" some energy and thus get higher mpg than you would in your non-hybrid.


Plugin hybrid is similar but it was a much larger battery (~10kWh vs 1kWh) and that battery is charged from your house and you can drive entirely on that energy and when the battery is dead the engine kicks in. If your daily driving is within the rang of the car you can drive entirely on electric. If you are doing Dublin-Cork then you will use the electricity and then burn petrol after that.

Okay, that's a great post.


So plug-in is the way to go. To use simple numbers, if the battery can cover 500km, and i've to drive 1000km, then im only actually gonna be using 500km worth of petrol?


Let's say for argument sake, I went out tomorrow and bought a plug-in, and I live in a house estate, is there much expense involved in charging the car itself? (ie; not just the actual cost to charge it, but I presume I need to get some kinda special charger or transformer fitted in the house/garage?)

magentis

I have a honda insight.

It costs feck all to run.Tax is €170,I have being toying with the idea of buying an outlander phev for about a year now,but looking deeper into the battery/BMU issue on these cars is making me think I'm better off holding onto what I have.

josip

KKV, if I recall correctly from earlier threads, a lot of your kms are rural where there's a lot less braking than in an urban area?
I can't see a non plug in hybrid (eg older Prius) being of any benefit to you for that type of driving.
Even a plug in hybrid will only benefit you for a few kms before you're just driving a conventional ICE again.
But I wouldn't fancy doing 1000kms a day in any of the EVs that will match your budget in a year's time.
You'd be looking at up to 5 fast charges per day and having to go out of your way a bit to get them at that.
The other way of looking at it is if this budget kills off diesel, you should be able to pick up an older one cheap enough for another few years.

josip

Deleted User wrote: »

Okay, that's a great post.


So plug-in is the way to go. To use simple numbers, if the battery can cover 500km, and i've to drive 1000km, then im only actually gonna be using 500km worth of petrol?


Let's say for argument sake, I went out tomorrow and bought a plug-in, and I live in a house estate, is there much expense involved in charging the car itself? (ie; not just the actual cost to charge it, but I presume I need to get some kinda special charger or transformer fitted in the house/garage?)

KKV, a plug in Prius will only go 20-40km before it starts sucking petrol depending on whether its pre 2016 or after.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius_Plug-in_Hybrid

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

To use simple numbers, if the battery can cover 500km, and i've to drive 1000km, then im only actually gonna be using 500km worth of petrol?

Yes, but the numbers are well off. Depending on which PHEV you are talking about they do betweenn 20-55km in EV mode.

So, PHEV's are really only suitable if you are generally only doing <50km's per day but you want the flexibility of being able to drive long distance without stopping to charge.

Once the battery is dead a PHEV is just a traditional hybrid and will still get very good mpg.

Deleted User wrote: »

Let's say for argument sake, I went out tomorrow and bought a plug-in, and I live in a house estate, is there much expense involved in charging the car itself? (ie; not just the actual cost to charge it, but I presume I need to get some kinda special charger or transformer fitted in the house/garage?)

The cost to charge as a rough rule of thumb is about one fifth of what it would cost you in diesel IF you do all your driving in EV mode.

The cost of a charge point to charge the car is variable but there is a €600 grant and if you choose your electrician wisely you should be able to get one installed for close enough to that.... definitely <€1k anyway.




What's your typical daily driving pattern like.... distance, road type, speed etc?
Do you do any long journeys (lets say >200km) and how often?

NIMAN

KCross wrote: »

If you are doing Dublin-Cork then you will use the electricity in the battery and then burn petrol after that.

Quickie here, but don't these cars recharge the battery while they are running on petrol engine again?

Or once the battery is emptied, thats it til you plug it in again?

Odyssey 2005

Very worthwhile IMO. Mrs o has an E300h. Left Kilkenny,on to Omagh,then Derry,Belfast,Banbridge and back to Belfast,then returned to Kilkenny. Obviously not all in the same day. The car used €42 in fuel,so most definitely not nonsense technology.

Capra

It seems to be mainly nonsense posted here so far. A plug in hybrid is essentially useless as in the real world studies have shown that most people don't actually plug them in very often.

My brother has a IS300H which gets 45-50mpg. He lives in a very rural area and does very little urban driving. Yes, a diesel is ever so slightly cheaper to run but it's also less refined and a brutal step backwards for a luxury car. He also never suffers from range anxiety which every who isn't in denial knows is a real thing.

Anyone who thinks hybrid is a pointless technology hasn't thought it through at all. They also usually don't know how to drive a hybrid to get the best mpg out of it. Drive it like a petrol or diesel and you will get poor range. Drive it like a hybrid is meant to be and you will easily do diesel mileage. For a start Toyota are now benefiting massively from having invested in this technology. Toyota saw that diesel wasn't a proper solution and invested. Electric Cars aren't ready yet so why would they not have went with hybrid? Electric only cars are not a difficult technology to master so it's not like Toyota aren't going to be able to figure it out. Hybrid on the other hand is much more complex and they have a massive headstart on all other manufacturers.

josip

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Very worthwhile IMO. Mrs o has an E300h. Left Kilkenny,on to Omagh,then Derry,Belfast,Banbridge and back to Belfast,then returned to Kilkenny. Obviously not all in the same day. The car used €42 in fuel,so most definitely not nonsense technology.

Is the ES300h relevant to KKV's case?

I thought it only came out last year and costs north of €50,000?

Odyssey 2005

josip wrote: »

Is the ES300h relevant to KKV's case?

I thought it only came out last year and costs north of €50,000?

It's a hybrid so yes it's relevant. It's a 15 car so go back to google and look again. I'm sorry that doesn't fit your electric narrative.

Edit...it was considerably less than north of €50,000

KCross

KCross wrote: »

What's your typical daily driving pattern like.... distance, road type, speed etc?
Do you do any long journeys (lets say >200km) and how often?

I work on a roughly 6 week cycle. For about a week of that, I'll do about 800-1000km per day. This is a mish-mash of every road type under the sun, but will generally take the form of national roads, and regional roads. Plenty of boreens, roads barely wide enough to get through, and house estates in there, also. I'll be under pressure and on a tight schedule here, so stopping unnecessarily is a no-no (ie; charging).



For a separate week, within that 6 week cycle, I'll do about 300km per day. This is 80-90% N roads travelling around Cavan, Monaghan, Louth and Meath.


For the other 4 weeks of the 6 week cycle, I'll generally be just pottering around the town. Down to the shop, recycling centre, etc.


So although I drive from very little, to an awful lot, when buying a car, i have to buy for my highest mileage requirements.

fricatus

Just to clear up the acronyms:

Hybrid/HEV - like the Toyota Prius or new Corolla, petrol only, small battery for slow speeds, stops, and as a power assist for short bursts of acceleration

PHEV/Plug-in Hybrid - Larger battery that can be charged like an EV, but usually only 40-50 km of range before the petrol or diesel has to be used

BEV/Battery Electric Vehicle - regular EV or electric car that has only a battery and electric motor, and which you plug in, no fossil juice

All are automatics, BTW, unless someone's going to point out some weird exception!

We have a Toyota hybrid and a Hyundai EV. Think of the regular hybrid as a petrol car with good MPG basically.

The EV is great if all your driving in the day is within range. I wouldn't tend to cover more than 150 km per day, so it's ideal. For longer journeys, it still works well, but you need to plan to charge, and might encounter delays on the public network.

If you could afford a Tesla, you wouldn't have those worries, because their superchargers are both fast and have high availability - typically 4 or 8 stalls, whereas the usual chargers that other cars use are single installations. The downsides there are that Teslas are expensive (though do focus on the total cost, including not having to pay for petrol), and their superchargers aren't everywhere. IIRC, they're on the M1 northbound, Ballacolla on the M8, and Birdhill near Limerick. I think they're doing Cork, M4 Enfield and maybe Galway too? If your long journeys always took you past those locations, then you might be able to make it work.

Another network that is expanding quickly is Ionity, so other cars might catch up with that aspect of Tesla and their superchargers. So far only in Cashel (M8), and opening soon in Gorey (M11). You'd still have to stop, but the major pain - availability - should be solved by that.

It sounds to me like the PHEV would be best for you. If you charge it once the battery is low, it will do all your pottering around in EV mode on the quiet weeks, and you have the fallback of petrol/diesel for the long journeys against the clock.

josip

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

It's a hybrid so yes it's relevant. It's a 15 car so go back to google and look again. I'm sorry that doesn't fit your electric narrative.

Edit...it was considerably less than north of €50,000

Tx, is that the one with the 1.6 kWh battery?
Not sure what you mean by "fitting my narrative" ?

Odyssey 2005

josip wrote: »

Tx, is that the one with the 1.6 kWh battery?
Not sure what you mean by "fitting my narrative" ?

Haven't a clue what kw the battery is

KCross

Capra wrote: »

A plug in hybrid is essentially useless as in the real world studies have shown that most people don't actually plug them in very often.

You are contradicting yourself tbh.

A plugin-hybrid is a hybrid... it works in the exact same way as a hybrid!

If someone decides not to plug it in, then more fool them for paying extra for a PHEV and not utilising its primary party trick!

Even then, when they decide not to plug it in it is still a hybrid so more efficient than a non-hybrid.

Zubeneschamali

fricatus wrote: »

PHEV/Plug-in Hybrid - Larger battery that can be charged like an EV, but usually only 40-50 km of range before the petrol or diesel has to be used

BMW i3 will do 150 km on battery, and then another 150 or so after the Range Extender petrol engine is needed.

KCross

NIMAN wrote: »

Quickie here, but don't these cars recharge the battery while they are running on petrol engine again?

Or once the battery is emptied, thats it til you plug it in again?

Depends.
The i3 does what you describe. It will charge the battery on the road.

Most PHEV's dont charge the battery from the engine as they drive, they can maintain the battery charge level using the engine and then will act like normal hybrids and capture the energy from braking by charging the battery but it wont charge the battery back up to 100%.

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

I work on a roughly 6 week cycle. For about a week of that, I'll do about 800-1000km per day.

Just to confirm.... thats not a typo is it?

If you are really doing that level of mileage diesel is the only sane choice.

corks finest

Deleted User wrote: »

Can anyone explain hybrid to me?


I know, it's a basic and silly question, one which could be googled, but as far as I am aware, you don't plug it in, the petrol (or diesel?) engine charges the electric battery when the car is running and when the car has charged it's own electric usage to a usable standard, it auto-switches over to benefit from the electrical aspect of what's under the bonnet?

Theoretically, saving you fuel/emissions for the periods where you're driving on the electrical charge, rather than the petrol you put into it.


The reason I'm not just googling it, is because I'm more interested in hearing perhaps from people that may have first-hand experience of them around our little country (does a cold, wet winter mean you're just on petrol mode all the time?)





If i recall correctly, someone (on boards) not too long ago had a post fairly substantially claiming that hybrids were a nonsense technology and a waste of time, that they didn't actually benefit anyone that much or cost much less to run, however, certain manufacturers had so heavily invested in them that there was no choice but to sell them and promote them heavily as the future (I think Toyota took a hammering in that person's opinion).



I'm someone who will definitely be in need of a new car within a year, and I won't buy anything til after the budget. With about 15-20k to spend (max) Mooching online, I came across a few Outlander Hybrids. I'm assuming these won't get hammered in the budget as they're seen as eco-friendly, but i am wondering, are they actually any better than just having a petrol/diesel engine on it's own.




My work involves driving, and is on like a random 6 week cycle, where for about a week of the 6 weeks, I'll do up to 1,000km per day, out from that i'll do about 300km a day for a week of the 6 weeks and for the other month the car will be just pottering down to the local shop. For the times I'm driving, im against the clock, so stopping to charge would rule out a car (ie; full electric wouldn't suit me).

I've a 2012 insight hybrid and am saving e18/20 plus a week compared to my last car so hybrid for me is a winner

Murt10

My advice is to look at what the professionals car drivers use.

Every 2nd taxi I see now, both here and abroad, is a Prius. Taxi drivers in general want ultra reliable cars that are cheap to run.

I'm not a taxi driver but I brought in a prius with 47,000 miles on it. I got rid of it 10 years later with 160,000 miles. Apart from normal servicing, nothing else broke. Actually, I tell a lie. The "handbrake" which you actually apply with your foot seized up on me. I never used it at all, so I wouldn't fault it for seizing from lack of use.

josip

KCross wrote: »

Just to confirm.... thats not a typo is it?

If you are really doing that level of mileage diesel is the only sane choice.

Although diesel would be the only sane choice for those particular (5?) days, when you look at the whole 6 week cycle, then it might be swings and roundabouts with a plug in hybrid.
For 4 weeks he shouldn't have any fuel costs.

OP, is boot space a factor?
You've had the C4 and a Mondeo.
Do you have a lot of gear you need to fit in there?

pdpmur

Deleted User wrote: »

I work on a roughly 6 week cycle. For about a week of that, I'll do about 800-1000km per day.

For a separate week, within that 6 week cycle, I'll do about 300km per day. This is 80-90% N roads travelling around Cavan, Monaghan, Louth and Meath.

For the other 4 weeks of the 6 week cycle, I'll generally be just pottering around the town. Down to the shop, recycling centre, etc.


So although I drive from very little, to an awful lot, when buying a car, i have to buy for my highest mileage requirements.

ICE: Internal Combustion Engine vehicle (i.e. a normal car)
BEV: Battery Electric Vehicle (no combustion engine, just a battery and electric motor, so you have to plug it in to recharge)
HEV: Hybrid Electric Vehicle (ie with an engine and a small battery, no way of plugging it in and so you refuel it at a garage just like any other car
PHEV: Plug-in hybrid electric Vehicle, ie. with an engine and a bigger battery, refuelled at a garage but you can also plug it in to recharge the battery. Realistically you will need to plug it in every night at home in order to get the benefit of this type of car.

So as I read your situation, and in purely monetary terms:

Total mileage over a six week cycle say (900x5 + 300x5 + 10x32)km = 6300km

For the first week (70% of your total mileage):
The battery in the either hybrid will not deliver any significant mileage, and so a bigger battery in a PHEV will just be dead weight for most of the time.
Result: HEV wins (its cheaper to buy and probably more efficient to run)

For the second week (23% of your mileage):
A PHEV might get you about 50km each day, so about 4% of your total monthly mileage can be done on battery power alone, the rest of the time it's again just extra dead weight to be lugging around.
Result: HEV wins again (same as above)

For the other four weeks ( 7% of your mileage);
You might be able to do all of your travel on battery power alone in a PHEV (range up to about 50km on battery power alone)
Result: PHEV wins

Overall result for your situation:
HEV wins. Your travel is dominated by relatively long distance daily driving and you will not see the benefit of a larger battery pack as it will just be dead weight for the majority of your travel. A PHEV will also be more expensive to purchase. A hybrid SUV like an Outlander hybrid is also not that fuel efficient when using the engine and so is not a good fit for you - a hybrid car such as a newer Prius would be the best monetary fit for you.

Gumbo

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

It's a hybrid so yes it's relevant. It's a 15 car so go back to google and look again. I'm sorry that doesn't fit your electric narrative.

Edit...it was considerably less than north of €50,000

Jaysus, you sound cranky today. Have something to eat. Your not yourself when your hungry.

Third_Echelon

A regular hybrid might be the best option.

What type of work do you do? Do you need a big boot? Carry passengers?

Odyssey 2005

kceire wrote: »

Jaysus, you sound cranky today. Have something to eat. Your not yourself when your hungry.

I'll be ok after a snickers

corks finest

Midnight_EG wrote: »

My partner has a 2011 Fit, we picked it up last July. €42 fills it and she get's close to 700km to a tank with nearly no city driving. €170 tax and very little running costs makes it a no brainer. I'm considering a larger saloon hybrid because of this.

Same engine as mine,and Uber reliable

corks finest

magentis wrote: »

I have a honda insight.

It costs feck all to run.Tax is €170,I have being toying with the idea of buying an outlander phev for about a year now,but looking deeper into the battery/BMU issue on these cars is making me think I'm better off holding onto what I have.

Same,on my 2 nd insight

kanuseeme

That is an insane amount of mileage, you really do that a day 800 km?

Plug in hybrid (outlander) is great for 50 km commutes, 100 km commutes i got 80 mpg, 300 km your down to 42 mpg,

I had 2 hybrids, honda insight and lexus ct, average mileage was 50 to 60 mpg,

given your mileage, a diesel car doing 60 mpg would be your best choice. I cannot see diesel and petrol prices on a parity within 3 years, at that stage your car will have 150 000 km on it

josip

josip wrote: »

Although diesel would be the only sane choice for those particular (5?) days, when you look at the whole 6 week cycle, then it might be swings and roundabouts with a plug in hybrid.
For 4 weeks he shouldn't have any fuel costs.

OP, is boot space a factor?
You've had the C4 and a Mondeo.
Do you have a lot of gear you need to fit in there?

It was actually a C5, estate, and I loved the big boot. I had a Ford Galaxy aswell, and loved the space it offered. However, truth be told, thats more something that i like, rather than need. I dont necessarily need a big boot, but i do enjoy having space, so although not a deal breaker, id always opt for a larger car.

KCross wrote: »

Just to confirm.... thats not a typo is it?

If you are really doing that level of mileage diesel is the only sane choice.

No, it'd be accurate enough. Very long days, but they're only for a few days here and there.


I've had a handful of Diesel's, but I'm driving a 1.8 petrol at the moment. I have found diesel to be relentlessly unreliable. If I head DPF once more, I'll scream (despite the mileage I'm doing, DPF issues were always on the horizon).


So I pay more at the pump for petrol at the moment, but I don't have as many anxieties. In a perfect world, I'd never touch a diesel again, but that's easier said than done.

pdpmur

pdpmur wrote: »

ICE: Internal Combustion Engine vehicle (i.e. a normal car)
BEV: Battery Electric Vehicle (no combustion engine, just a battery and electric motor, so you have to plug it in to recharge)
HEV: Hybrid Electric Vehicle (ie with an engine and a small battery, no way of plugging it in and so you refuel it at a garage just like any other car
PHEV: Plug-in hybrid electric Vehicle, ie. with an engine and a bigger battery, refuelled at a garage but you can also plug it in to recharge the battery. Realistically you will need to plug it in every night at home in order to get the benefit of this type of car.

So as I read your situation, and in purely monetary terms:

Total mileage over a six week cycle say (900x5 + 300x5 + 10x32)km = 6300km

For the first week (70% of your total mileage):
The battery in the either hybrid will not deliver any significant mileage, and so a bigger battery in a PHEV will just be dead weight for most of the time.
Result: HEV wins (its cheaper to buy and probably more efficient to run)

For the second week (23% of your mileage):
A PHEV might get you about 50km each day, so about 4% of your total monthly mileage can be done on battery power alone, the rest of the time it's again just extra dead weight to be lugging around.
Result: HEV wins again (same as above)

For the other four weeks ( 7% of your mileage);
You might be able to do all of your travel on battery power alone in a PHEV (range up to about 50km on battery power alone)
Result: PHEV wins

Overall result for your situation:
HEV wins. Your travel is dominated by relatively long distance daily driving and you will not see the benefit of a larger battery pack as it will just be dead weight for the majority of your travel. A PHEV will also be more expensive to purchase. A hybrid SUV like an Outlander hybrid is also not that fuel efficient when using the engine and so is not a good fit for you - a hybrid car such as a newer Prius would be the best monetary fit for you.

Cheers for that. Very detailed post. Much appreciated.


Would I be correct in saying every hybrid has a petrol engine, and none are diesel?

Third_Echelon

Third_Echelon wrote: »

A regular hybrid might be the best option.

What type of work do you do? Do you need a big boot? Carry passengers?

I'm a photographer. For work, I'd travel alone, but for normal day-to-day stuff I'd be ferrying the father to the shops or bringing the girlfriend out etc. so would need passenger space nonetheless.

Shefwedfan

Im I have the attention span of a Goldfish so couldn't read all the valuable information provided by other people. Just to give a real life

Misses has a Galaxy, she likes it an doesn't like so wants a change. Doesnt help I am changing my car and she wants something new as well.

The main issue she has with the Galaxy is that it is diesel and she doesn't do diesel mileage, we done a trip to UK a few weeks back and it was perfect, back to normal day to day and we are burning diesel, all city driving and no good.

So option is RAV self charging or PHEV. Currently, test driving a RAV this weekend, I had one before and she drove around today, it is the older model so not as good as new model....she is struggling to get down below 7.6ltr/100km in it. Now with the new model she would probably get 7ltr/100km as it is better but the fact she doesn't like the interior in either is turning it into a no....especially when I rang about a new order and they told me it would be a 2020 delivery

Im a struggling to see the case for the Toyota at the moment, I like the interior more than the Outlander but then I wont be in it which I was told straight up when I questioned it.....are hybrid worthwhile? well yes......are PHEV better? well yes

Next option is the PHEV, Outlander is streaking ahead at the moment. I am surprised and she liked the interior, the fact it has a sun roof I think might have swayed her, plus the full leather and heated seats. We are trying to get a test drive but her office is circa 15km from house, so she could potentially go to work and back on the battery.....also if I take some days my office is only 10km away so I could do kids runs etc all on battery.....no requirement for fuel.

But then when we want todo those UK trips we have the petrol engine to back us up.....it has big boot and plenty of space in back etc for the small ones.....

Raven_k42

Evening all - I'm reading this thread with real interest and I can relate to the OP's opening post. Is Hybrid a total con-job ??. I rely on boards a lot and trust the people who answer. I also believe we'll all be driving EV in X years. In the meantime however.....

I sometimes feel that the general message is that anything but EV is a total waste and buying anything else is like throwing money into a hole. I understand the total Cost of Ownership logic etc but I need to change soon and can get about 11k together. Was looking at Hybrid thinking this was (a) eco responsible, (b) hopefully efficient and (c) less punitive in terms of taxes etc in the short term. Other option (85% city driving) is an efficient small petrol engine like Golf, Focus Eco, etc. But again - will I be unable to offload in 4 or 5 years ?? .
Guys used to stick "GT" badges on cars years ago - surely "Hybrid" isn't the new version of this ??.
I actually don't think (even if I had the cash) I'm ready/confident yet for an EV. I didn't buy a flat-screen TV until they were well proven !. Plus I've 11k to spend. Is Hybrid only worth considering on the basis of relative mileage figures with no other redeeming features ?. Maybe a 1.4 2013 Golf is the way to go !!.
Sorry for long post - but I suspect I'm not alone in struggling to bridge this environmental dilemma with limited cash available and the need for a newer car.
Thanks, K

Shefwedfan

Raven_k42 wrote: »

Evening all - I'm reading this thread with real interest and I can relate to the OP's opening post. Is Hybrid a total con-job ??. I rely on boards a lot and trust the people who answer. I also believe we'll all be driving EV in X years. In the meantime however.....

I sometimes feel that the general message is that anything but EV is a total waste and buying anything else is like throwing money into a hole. I understand the total Cost of Ownership logic etc but I need to change soon and can get about 11k together. Was looking at Hybrid thinking this was (a) eco responsible, (b) hopefully efficient and (c) less punitive in terms of taxes etc in the short term. Other option (85% city driving) is an efficient small petrol engine like Golf, Focus Eco, etc. But again - will I be unable to offload in 4 or 5 years ?? .
Guys used to stick "GT" badges on cars years ago - surely "Hybrid" isn't the new version of this ??.
I actually don't think (even if I had the cash) I'm ready/confident yet for an EV. I didn't buy a flat-screen TV until they were well proven !. Plus I've 11k to spend. Is Hybrid only worth considering on the basis of relative mileage figures with no other redeeming features ?. Maybe a 1.4 2013 Golf is the way to go !!.
Sorry for long post - but I suspect I'm not alone in struggling to bridge this environmental dilemma with limited cash available and the need for a newer car.
Thanks, K

Buying hybrid is not a waste of money and is good technoloy. I know a few people dont like them but I think the whole slef charging ad by Toyota is just annoying them.....


Hybrid is well proven, the Prius is out how many years? the current range of Rav and Camry are more efficient than ever. Even VW said to me they wouldn't be selling a straight petrol if they had the option but they only have a hybrid Passat, they cant wait to get full range next year.....

The market is pushing to hybrid/PHEV/BEV.....

The Satanist

Deleted User wrote: »

My work involves driving, and is on like a random 6 week cycle, where for about a week of the 6 weeks, I'll do up to 1,000km per day, out from that i'll do about 300km a day for a week of the 6 weeks and for the other month the car will be just pottering down to the local shop. For the times I'm driving, im against the clock, so stopping to charge would rule out a car (ie; full electric wouldn't suit me).

I'd be looking at a Lexus GS300h for that kind of usage tbh. Comfortable, automatic, reliable, reasonably economical.

A Prius will be cheaper to buy and run but they aren't the most comfortable for long distances.

Shefwedfan

How do you drive 1000km in a day?

grogi

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Can anyone explain hybrid to me?


I know, it's a basic and silly question, one which could be googled, but as far as I am aware, you don't plug it in, the petrol (or diesel?) engine charges the electric battery when the car is running and when the car has charged it's own electric usage to a usable standard, it auto-switches over to benefit from the electrical aspect of what's under the bonnet?

Theoretically, saving you fuel/emissions for the periods where you're driving on the electrical charge, rather than the petrol you put into it.


The reason I'm not just googling it, is because I'm more interested in hearing perhaps from people that may have first-hand experience of them around our little country (does a cold, wet winter mean you're just on petrol mode all the time?)





If i recall correctly, someone (on boards) not too long ago had a post fairly substantially claiming that hybrids were a nonsense technology and a waste of time, that they didn't actually benefit anyone that much or cost much less to run, however, certain manufacturers had so heavily invested in them that there was no choice but to sell them and promote them heavily as the future (I think Toyota took a hammering in that person's opinion).



I'm someone who will definitely be in need of a new car within a year, and I won't buy anything til after the budget. With about 15-20k to spend (max) Mooching online, I came across a few Outlander Hybrids. I'm assuming these won't get hammered in the budget as they're seen as eco-friendly, but i am wondering, are they actually any better than just having a petrol/diesel engine on it's own.




My work involves driving, and is on like a random 6 week cycle, where for about a week of the 6 weeks, I'll do up to 1,000km per day, out from that i'll do about 300km a day for a week of the 6 weeks and for the other month the car will be just pottering down to the local shop. For the times I'm driving, im against the clock, so stopping to charge would rule out a car (ie; full electric wouldn't suit me).

Unless you mess with the hybrid system, a hybrid car charges during breaking, by capturing the kinetic energy otherwise lost in brakes to heat. This energy can be then put to good use to accelerate.

There are many other tweaks in the way a Toyota hybrid works. Engine running in more efficient cycle called Atkinson cycle. eCVT transaxle that ensures the engine runs on the most energy efficient work point for the conditions etc.

A hybrid exhibits its benefits most on city driving, with numerous stop/start cycles. But it's improved efficiency shows up in extra urban roads too.

Yhey cannot match an EV in potential environmental benefits though. I wouldn't call hybrids a nonsense though...

corks finest

FFS it's a helicopter he needs

josip

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How do you drive 1000km in a day?

Start early I'd imagine
The OP did say up to 1000km and also said somewhere 800-1000km.
But you got me curious, so I tried to come up with a 1000km round trip in Ireland.



Fairly horrendous timewise.
OP, how do you have any time to work at your locations en route?

Gumbo

Would it not be against the law to be driving that distance for that time.

Shefwedfan

kceire wrote: »

Would it not be against the law to be driving that distance for that time.

I asked this before and seemingly no law

Now I would guess this is for work and I know my company would not allow it, not a chance. They don’t want you to drive to cork and back from Dublin in the same day. They say distance is too far even with stops and unsafe. That’s 600km

Hence why I was asking about the 1000km, even if they allowed me how are you able to drive 1000km in an 8 hour shift? You would have to take no break all day