TSC114 no DBT-S signal unless main TV is on

IsThisOneFree

Pretty much since saorview was launched, we've had a TSC114 for saroview and freesat along with a Philipps 22" TV. For the most part, it worked without any problems.

Last Christmas we bought a Toshiba TV with built in saorview/freesat receiver to replace the TSC/Philipps set. In order to prevent "death by soaps", I recently decided to setup the Philipps and the TSC in another room (the TV room). This room has an aerial and satellite connection from the same aerial and satellite that the "main TV" (the Toshiba) uses. The connection in this room had never been used before up until now (was installed just over a year ago when we renovated the house).

I done a factory reset on the TSC and went about setting it up; it can pickup all the terrestrial channels just fine. If I open the Satellite List, it shows 1 satellite (Astra/Eurobird 28.2E) but with 0% signal ... until I turn on the "main tv" on one of the freesat channels ... then it comes to life and shows good signal. If I change the channel on the main tv to one of the terrestrial channels, or switch it off entirely, the TSC will loose it's satellite signal.

I swapped the TV's around and moved the TSC into the living room and the main TV into the TV Room. It's the same result here, the Toshiba ("main TV") works fine in the TV room, but the TSC needs the main TV to be on a freesat channel for it to get any satellite signal.

Just to be sure, I left the main TV on Channel4 and then tuned in the TSC. It found all the channels fine and I could watch Channel4 perfect. But as soon as I turn the main TV to RTE1, the TSC will say no DBT-S signal.

So the problem definitely seems to be with the TSC ... but I don't understand why, because it worked fine when we disconnected it last December after buying the new TV. The TSC firmware is from May 2013, and from what I've read that's the latest. So, what could be the problem ? What are my next options ? Does the TSC need a signal booster or something ?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Johnboy1951

I done a factory reset on the TSC and went about setting it up

Is there a setting in the TSC referring to powering the LNB?

Is it possible that this is now off after you reset the TSC?

Former Former

Yeah sounds like there's no power going from the TSC to the dish and so it needs the current from the TV to pick up the satellite channels.

Check the settings on the TSC, should be an easy fix

Elvis Hammond

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

This room has an aerial and satellite connection from the same aerial and satellite that the "main TV" (the Toshiba) uses. The connection in this room had never been used before up until now (was installed just over a year ago when we renovated the house).

Who installed this connection? That interaction between the 2 sat. receivers shouldn't be possible if they have independent connections at the LNB.

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

Just to be sure, I left the main TV on Channel4 and then tuned in the TSC. It found all the channels fine and I could watch Channel4 perfect.

All channels? Set the main TV on C4 again, & see if you can watch Sky News on the TSC114.

IsThisOneFree

Thanks for all the replies. @Elvis Hammond - as long as the main TV is on any freesat channel I can watch any freesat channel on the TSC. They don't have to be on the same freesat channel. I've checked most of the BBC, ITV, C4 and C5 channels as well as some of the music channels. The installation was performed by a local guy ... I think he does alot of the installations in this area.

@JohnBoy/FormerFormer - I've no idea what an LNB is but it certainly sounds plausible :-) However, I can't find anything in the settings related to LNB. I'm wondering if there's a second hidden menu, but so far google hasn't given me any info on how to display it I'm afraid :-(

Elvis Hammond

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. @Elvis Hammond - as long as the main TV is on any freesat channel I can watch any freesat channel on the TSC. They don't have to be on the same freesat channel. I've checked most of the BBC, ITV, C4 and C5 channels as well as some of the music channels.

I mentioned Sky News in particular, as it's at the higher frequency end, & all those other channels you mention are not.

Is it C4 HD the main TV was tuned to?

Johnboy1951

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

...

@JohnBoy/FormerFormer - I've no idea what an LNB is but it certainly sounds plausible :-) However, I can't find anything in the settings related to LNB. I'm wondering if there's a second hidden menu, but so far google hasn't given me any info on how to display it I'm afraid :-(

Do you have a link to an online manual for that STB?
Only one I found is just a detailed explanation how to use it here
https://www.freetv.ie/triax-tsc114-saorview-combo-user-manual/

Maybe go to Installation - Installation Type DVB-S - Astra on 28.1E
Check through the settings available there to see if there is any mention of LNB or power or such.

Elvis Hammond

Yeah, when you're in the DVB-S installation menu, select 'Antenna Setting', & there's an LNB power on/off option.

IsThisOneFree

Ugh sorry, you're right, it is in there. I thought I'd gone through all of the different menus :-( Anyway, LNB Power was already set to on. I toggled it off and then on again, but it didn't help anything I'm afraid.

As for Sky News, it doesn't seem to have been picked up by the TSC - there are a load of extra channels on the main TV that the TSC didn't pick up. However, the main TV has a much longer satellite list, while the TSC only has Astra/Eurobird

Elvis Hammond

Have you tried the TSC on its own, with the Toshiba's 'LNB/sat.-in' cable disconnected?

IsThisOneFree

Pretty sure I tested that previously, but I tested again just now and it didn't help - still no signal on the TSC. Might see if I can get my hands on a second box to test out in place of the TSC. Or failing that, I may just have to call the guy that done the installation to see if he can troubleshoot it any further in person.

IsThisOneFree

So the guy who installed the dish came out to have a look this week. He said it's not powering the LNB (as you'e already told me). He tried a firmware upgrade on the box ... it didn't help. So he concluded that the box is faulty :-( I don't really want to replace it as it's working perfectly fine except for this one problem. Any thoughts on how I can resolve this without replacing the box ? Is it possible to purchase an LNB power unit that I could sit inbetween the box and the DVB-S input with it's own power supply maybe ?

Antenna

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

Is it possible to purchase an LNB power unit that I could sit inbetween the box and the DVB-S input with it's own power supply maybe ?

AN Ex-MMDS power unit would allow some channels to work (if it really is the case that the problem is no LNB power out from that receiver ), including C4 BBC ITV (though only certain regions will work) .

pegasuspub

what type of lnb is on the dish , do you have a twin or quad lnb on the dish. how many cables are connected to the dish. 1/2/4 ?
is there any chance the cable is split from a single lnb? a power pass splitter would cause similar symptoms or
if there are two cables coming from the dish and with one going to each tv point then a poor connection or a poor earth (or screen) on the cable going to the triax room could cause similar symptoms/problems.

Elvis Hammond

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

So the guy who installed the dish came out to have a look this week. He said it's not powering the LNB (as you'e already told me). He tried a firmware upgrade on the box ... it didn't help. So he concluded that the box is faulty :-( I don't really want to replace it as it's working perfectly fine except for this one problem.

It's a pretty fundamental issue for a satellite receiver though, & it does more than simply provide a constant power output to the LNB.

There must be some glitch with its LNB power supply that's preventing the circuit being completed, & this is somehow rectified when the other receiver is switched on.

I'd just get a new receiver.

IsThisOneFree

Apologies, yet another late response on my part ... have been sick for the past few weeks :-( Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.

It's a pretty fundamental issue for a satellite receiver though..

Yup, I get that. But I really hate having to dispose of a box just because one component has failed. To me it's akin to chucking away your desktop just because the hard drive failed, rather than replacing the hard drive. But I guess these things aren't designed to be field repairable so I'll have to concede defeat on this one.

We used to have this box with our main TV before we bought the Toshiba (with the built-in receiver) but there was a few channels we could never get (BBC4 comes to mind) even though it was picked up during a scan. When we got the Toshiba, I found BBC4 worked fine. I checked BBC4 the other day on the TSC while the Toshiba was on a BBC channel, and it worked too. So I think this problem has actually been going on for a while without me even knowing, it's just gotten worse (or completely given up) recently.

I don't really want to spend too much money on this - just wondering, would a second hand Sky box pick up all the same channels ? Or would I just get a sub-set of them ?

Johnboy1951

One last thing before you dump the device ..... you posted

This room has an aerial and satellite connection from the same aerial and satellite that the "main TV" (the Toshiba) uses.

... but it is not clear how those connections are made.

Do the coax cables into this room come directly from the Satellite dish LNB, or are they somehow connected to the same cable going to the TV now or some other non-direct route?

Unless the cable in the second room is going directly to the LNB then you cannot have independent reception of satellite channels there.

Unlikely I know, but might be worth checking.

IsThisOneFree

Do the coax cables into this room come directly from the Satellite dish LNB

Yes, I'm 99% sure that they are. Plus I had the guy who installed it out to look at the TSC114, and he didn't say anything about this limitation - he concluded that there was no power getting to the LNB also. But thanks for checking :-)

Johnboy1951

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

Yes, I'm 99% sure that they are. Plus I had the guy who installed it out to look at the TSC114, and he didn't say anything about this limitation - he concluded that there was no power getting to the LNB also. But thanks for checking :-)

Did you swap the cables at the LNB to test if maybe one port of the LNB might be faulty?

Obviously I too hate to dispose of devices without being absolutely certain

IsThisOneFree

Did you swap the cables at the LNB to test if maybe one port of the LNB might be faulty?

I presume "on the LNB" would mean in the attic where the satellite connection comes in, right ? In that case, the answer is no

However, I did swap the Toshiba TV into the TV room and tested it from there (it worked fine) and I also tested the TSC114 from the main room (with the exact same results ... worked in the Toshiba TV was set to a satellite channel). So I guess this would be the equivalent ? Thoughts ?

Obviously I too hate to dispose of devices without being absolutely certain

I don't blame ya I'd happily spend a few quid getting somebody to repair it if it meant I don't have to throw it out. But I suspect that's not an option

The Cush

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

However, I did swap the Toshiba TV into the TV room and tested it from there (it worked fine) and I also tested the TSC114 from the main room (with the exact same results ... worked in the Toshiba TV was set to a satellite channel). So I guess this would be the equivalent ? Thoughts ?(

Equivalent yes. The box has failed.

This would be an equivalent Saorview approved combi box, with all channels in a single list similar to the Toshiba TV - https://powercity.ie/product/WPS818C

IsThisOneFree

Thought as much, thanks ! Would the sky box do the same thing, or I'd be missing some channels ? There's loads of sky boxes on adverts

The Cush

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

Would the sky box do the same thing, or I'd be missing some channels ? There's loads of sky boxes on adverts

Personally I wouldn't use one for FTA but the choice is yours, they are designed as a pay TV box.

Johnboy1951

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

Thought as much, thanks ! Would the sky box do the same thing, or I'd be missing some channels ? There's loads of sky boxes on adverts

Using one is a frustrating experience IMO.
I have one here for Eir sports, and I will be glad to get rid of it.
Useless except for that specific use .... I have never watched a FTA channel on it.
It is much more preferable to get a box designed for the purpose, IMO.

IsThisOneFree

Cool, thanks for the replies

joeaverage

I think I had that problem a few months back with two TSC114s. As far as I can remember, there was a no signal issue, but it was only after I changed the LNB that the problem first arose. And the solution I think was the LNB. What type of LNB are u using? Have you tried changing it?

Swapping the cables around wont tell you if there is a fault with the LNB, especially a fault of this type where it seems there is voltage passing from one LNB output to another.

When you think about it, the only thing those two receivers have in common is the LNB and the Saorview aerial. There are not too many faulty TSC114s around!

IsThisOneFree

What type of LNB are u using? Have you tried changing it?

I honestly wouldn't have a clue I never even heard of an LNB until this problem arose. So I wouldn't know how to change it.

My aunt has a TSC114, so I'm thinking about swapping with her at the weekend as one final test and see what the results are. Although I'm not expecting any big surprises from it seeing as the Toshiba works in both rooms and the TSC114 fails to work in both rooms. I'll post back and let you know the results

joeaverage

An independent test on another dish would be a good start. If the TSC only works when the Tosh is switched on, then there is some interaction between the two receivers. There should not be.

STB.

joeaverage wrote: »

I think I had that problem a few months back with two TSC114s. As far as I can remember, there was a no signal issue, but it was only after I changed the LNB that the problem first arose. And the solution I think was the LNB. What type of LNB are u using? Have you tried changing it?

Swapping the cables around wont tell you if there is a fault with the LNB, especially a fault of this type where it seems there is voltage passing from one LNB output to another.

When you think about it, the only thing those two receivers have in common is the LNB and the Saorview aerial. There are not too many faulty TSC114s around!

Swapping the cables around would tell you whether it was one particular box or cable. If this is connected up to a Quad LNB, then one of the ports could be blown on the LNB. If only two are being used then you try one of the other two.

That is of course assuming that some genius hasnt split a single cable in an attic to feed two rooms. In that scenario, one of the two boxes will not work when the other is switched on.

There are plenty of TSC114s around.. They were terrible boxes. The interactive MHEG engine was left open on satellite and crashed the box on entering the BBC were MHEG was active. They also had problems were they black screened on DVB-T. Many were returned.

joeaverage

STB. wrote: »

Swapping the cables around would tell you whether it was one particular box or cable. If this is connected up to a Quad LNB, then one of the ports could be blown on the LNB. If only two are being used then you try one of the other two.

This will not establish if the box is faulty if there is a fault in the LNB that is allowing voltage pass from one port in the quad to another.

There are plenty of TSC114s around.. They were terrible boxes. The interactive MHEG engine was left open on satellite and crashed the box on entering the BBC were MHEG was active. They also had problems were they black screened on DVB-T. Many were returned.

There are plenty of TSC114s around. They were not the coolest box in terms of user interface. But I know for a fact that the returns on these boxes was under 1%. And the black screen problem was with the previous model ST-HD537, which had n even worse UI, but again was very reliable.

IsThisOneFree

OK so I managed to call into my aunt this evening and get this tested - the box doesn't work at her house either. I can't test her TSC114 at our place as she's using it right now. I could bring it out at the weekend while she's away, but I don't know if there's much point in doing that, is there ?

They were not the coolest box in terms of user interface

You could sing that ! But if it worked, I wouldn't really care

joeaverage

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

OK so I managed to call into my aunt this evening and get this tested - the box doesn't work at her house either. I can't test her TSC114 at our place as she's using it right now. I could bring it out at the weekend while she's away, but I don't know if there's much point in doing that, is there ?
You could sing that ! But if it worked, I wouldn't really care

Well it's the box then. Still something odd going on with your dish/cable set up. No matter how sick the TSC was or is, the other TV/sat should not interfering with it.

STB.

joeaverage wrote: »

There are plenty of TSC114s around. They were not the coolest box in terms of user interface. But I know for a fact that the returns on these boxes was under 1%. And the black screen problem was with the previous model ST-HD537, which had n even worse UI, but again was very reliable.

Sorry joe, you are indeed correct, it was the 537 from 2011. (I had to check as I knew I had one at one stage)

The 114 is from 2012. Triax left the Saorview market as far as I can remember.

The OP could back up the channel list and firmware (from their working box) or try and resurrect the TSC114 thread and ask someone to backup theirs to a file sharing website and the OP could then flash that via USB to their box. Firmware is known to get corrupt via EEProm on many STBs.

Thread is here

OP is the working box working at both locations ?

Is the non working box working at either location ?

The Cush

joeaverage wrote: »

Well it's the box then. Still something odd going on with your dish/cable set up. No matter how sick the TSC was or is, the other TV/sat should not interfering with it.

Having read the earlier posts it sound like the TSC isn't able to power the LNB on its own, but with the TV connected and powering the LNB the TSC gets a feed.

STB.

The Cush wrote: »

Having read the earlier posts it sound like the TSC isn't able to power the LNB on its own, but with the TV connected and powering the LNB the TSC gets a feed.

How would that be even possible Cush ?

Skip that, the TV is one with DVB-T and DVB-S2 built in ! I had to re-read the thread!

Its a power pass splitter problem!!!!

IsThisOneFree

... flash that via USB to their box

We already tried upgrading the firmware but it didn't help

is the working box working at both locations ?

I haven't been able to test the working box at our house. But we have a Toshiba TV with built-in receiver which works in two rooms in this house. And the TSC114 doesn't work in either room

Is the non working box working at either location ?

No, doesn't work in either location

Having read the earlier posts it sound like the TSC isn't able to power the LNB on its own, but with the TV connected and powering the LNB the TSC gets a feed.

Yup, that's exactly correct. Others concluded that, by having the Toshiba swithced on, it was powering the LBN which allowed the TSC114 to get a signal.

The Cush

STB. wrote: »

How would that be even possible Cush ?

The only thing that would turn the LNB power on/off is a setting in one of the menus of the set top box? Does this box have an option to turn on extended voltage for cable runs ?

Could be the piece of electronic hardware that injects the voltage onto the coax cable has failed in which case the menu switching will have no effect.

STB.

Where is the satellite run from the cables going ? Attic ?

How many cables coming in from satellite dish ?

On the wall socket is it one of these ?

IsThisOneFree

Yea, it's going to the attic. There's no plate on the wall (long story, mixup during refurb !) so the cable just comes out of small hole in the wall. This same cable works fine when the Toshiba TV (with built in receiver) is connected to it.

Two cables coming from the dish, one to each room.

The Cush

STB. wrote: »

Its a power pass splitter problem!!!!

Doesn't explain why it doesn't work at his aunt's house when her own receiver works.

STB.

The Cush wrote: »

Could be the piece of electronic hardware that injects the voltage onto the coax cable has failed in which case the menu switching will have no effect.

I hadn't copped the TV was a combo TV.


The problem is wherever these cables were brought in. Sounds like the installer looped or split a single satellite cable in the attic, hence the power of TV being interacting with the STB. Sat signal is looped. Still should only alllow one to watch stations on the same TP with the same polarisation on both.

The Cush wrote: »

Doesn't explain why it doesn't work at his aunt's house when her own receiver works.

This added dimension, I can only assume is user related!

STB.

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

Yea, it's going to the attic. There's no plate on the wall (long story, mixup during refurb !) so the cable just comes out of small hole in the wall. This same cable works fine when the Toshiba TV (with built in receiver) is connected to it.

Two cables coming from the dish, one to each room.

Ok.

Process of elimination time. You need to swap the scenario around.

Bring the Toshiba to other room you never use.

Bring the Triax STB and TV to room were Toshiba was.

Switch on Toshiba first. Does it work - with Triax switched off? (i'm guessing not)

Now switch on Triax ? Does TV satellite now work ?

The Cush

STB. wrote: »

This added dimension, I can only assume is user related!

I'm sticking with component failure in the box with the TV supplying the LNB power when switched to satellite viewing.

His aunt's TSC will confirm no fault with his installation IMO.

IsThisOneFree

STB. wrote: »

Ok.

Process of elimination time. You need to swap the scenario around.

Bring the Toshiba to other room you never use.

Bring the Triax STB and TV to room were Toshiba was.

Switch on Toshiba first. Does it work - with Triax switched off? (i'm guessing not)

Now switch on Triax ? Does TV satellite now work ?

Already done that with the same result ... Toshiba works regardless, Triax works if Toshiba is on a Freesat channel

IsThisOneFree

The Cush wrote: »

I'm sticking with component failure in the box with the TV supplying the LNB power when switched to satellite viewing

I'm no expert on this, but I'm 99% convinced on that theory too !

STB.

The Cush wrote: »

I'm sticking with component failure in the box with the TV supplying the LNB power when switched to satellite viewing.

His aunt's TSC will confirm no fault with his installation IMO.

That would only make sense if the satellite cable was split between each room Cush.


Trying to watch a Vertically polarised channel on the TV whilst watching a Horizontally polarised channel on the other would prove that suspicion.

Eg: BBC One NI HD on TV (V), Channel 5 HD (H) on box. Are both working at same time?

IsThisOneFree

Eg: BBC One NI HD on TV (V), Channel 5 HD (H) on box. Are both working at same time?

I haven't tested every combination, but I know that some combinations work while others don't. A few weeks ago I was watching something on (I think) ITV2+1 on the TSC114 when all of a sudden I lost signal because somebody switched to a BBC channel on the Panasonic

STB.

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

I haven't tested every combination, but I know that some combinations work while others don't. A few weeks ago I was watching something on (I think) ITV2+1 on the TSC114 when all of a sudden I lost signal because somebody switched to a BBC channel on the Panasonic

Great. Suspicion confirmed.

The installer has split one satellite cable in the attic.

The TV is taking priority. You cannot power two satellite receivers off one cable.

You'll have to chase the cable in the attic to see what the installer did!

I'm guessing one cable in from dish to a T junction connector with two cables connected, one going to each room. Thats why you have the issue. You will not be able to watch seperate satellite channels on each at the same time otherwise. Also power pass splitter is going to TV first, hence why TV has to be on in order for set top box to work.

The Cush

At this stage attaching a know good receiver is the only way to confirm for sure, my initial suspicion stands based on the receiver's test in the aunt's house.

joeaverage

STB. wrote: »

Great. Suspicion confirmed.

The installer has split one satellite cable in the attic.

The TV is taking priority. You cannot power two satellite receivers off one cable.

You'll have to chase the cable in the attic to see what the installer did!

I'm guessing one cable in from dish to a T junction connector with two cables connected, one going to each room. Thats why you have the issue. You will not be able to watch seperate satellite channels on each at the same time otherwise. Also power pass splitter is going to TV first, hence why TV has to be on in order for set top box to work.

I'm with you there bud, there was a hint of that earlier on in the thread. He was watching separate channels, but on the same TP.

joeaverage

The Cush wrote: »

At this stage attaching a know good receiver is the only way to confirm for sure, my initial suspicion stands based on the receiver's test in the aunt's house.

But Cush, he didnt get the same result in both houses. It worked to some degree and was influenced by the Tosh TV in his house. It just didn't work in his aunts.