TSC114 no DBT-S signal unless main TV is on

joeaverage

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

OK so I managed to call into my aunt this evening and get this tested - the box doesn't work at her house either. I can't test her TSC114 at our place as she's using it right now. I could bring it out at the weekend while she's away, but I don't know if there's much point in doing that, is there ?
You could sing that ! But if it worked, I wouldn't really care

Well it's the box then. Still something odd going on with your dish/cable set up. No matter how sick the TSC was or is, the other TV/sat should not interfering with it.

STB.

joeaverage wrote: »

There are plenty of TSC114s around. They were not the coolest box in terms of user interface. But I know for a fact that the returns on these boxes was under 1%. And the black screen problem was with the previous model ST-HD537, which had n even worse UI, but again was very reliable.

Sorry joe, you are indeed correct, it was the 537 from 2011. (I had to check as I knew I had one at one stage)

The 114 is from 2012. Triax left the Saorview market as far as I can remember.

The OP could back up the channel list and firmware (from their working box) or try and resurrect the TSC114 thread and ask someone to backup theirs to a file sharing website and the OP could then flash that via USB to their box. Firmware is known to get corrupt via EEProm on many STBs.

Thread is here

OP is the working box working at both locations ?

Is the non working box working at either location ?

The Cush

joeaverage wrote: »

Well it's the box then. Still something odd going on with your dish/cable set up. No matter how sick the TSC was or is, the other TV/sat should not interfering with it.

Having read the earlier posts it sound like the TSC isn't able to power the LNB on its own, but with the TV connected and powering the LNB the TSC gets a feed.

STB.

The Cush wrote: »

Having read the earlier posts it sound like the TSC isn't able to power the LNB on its own, but with the TV connected and powering the LNB the TSC gets a feed.

How would that be even possible Cush ?

Skip that, the TV is one with DVB-T and DVB-S2 built in ! I had to re-read the thread!

Its a power pass splitter problem!!!!

IsThisOneFree

... flash that via USB to their box

We already tried upgrading the firmware but it didn't help

is the working box working at both locations ?

I haven't been able to test the working box at our house. But we have a Toshiba TV with built-in receiver which works in two rooms in this house. And the TSC114 doesn't work in either room

Is the non working box working at either location ?

No, doesn't work in either location

Having read the earlier posts it sound like the TSC isn't able to power the LNB on its own, but with the TV connected and powering the LNB the TSC gets a feed.

Yup, that's exactly correct. Others concluded that, by having the Toshiba swithced on, it was powering the LBN which allowed the TSC114 to get a signal.

The Cush

STB. wrote: »

How would that be even possible Cush ?

The only thing that would turn the LNB power on/off is a setting in one of the menus of the set top box? Does this box have an option to turn on extended voltage for cable runs ?

Could be the piece of electronic hardware that injects the voltage onto the coax cable has failed in which case the menu switching will have no effect.

STB.

Where is the satellite run from the cables going ? Attic ?

How many cables coming in from satellite dish ?

On the wall socket is it one of these ?

IsThisOneFree

Yea, it's going to the attic. There's no plate on the wall (long story, mixup during refurb !) so the cable just comes out of small hole in the wall. This same cable works fine when the Toshiba TV (with built in receiver) is connected to it.

Two cables coming from the dish, one to each room.

The Cush

STB. wrote: »

Its a power pass splitter problem!!!!

Doesn't explain why it doesn't work at his aunt's house when her own receiver works.

STB.

The Cush wrote: »

Could be the piece of electronic hardware that injects the voltage onto the coax cable has failed in which case the menu switching will have no effect.

I hadn't copped the TV was a combo TV.


The problem is wherever these cables were brought in. Sounds like the installer looped or split a single satellite cable in the attic, hence the power of TV being interacting with the STB. Sat signal is looped. Still should only alllow one to watch stations on the same TP with the same polarisation on both.

The Cush wrote: »

Doesn't explain why it doesn't work at his aunt's house when her own receiver works.

This added dimension, I can only assume is user related!

STB.

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

Yea, it's going to the attic. There's no plate on the wall (long story, mixup during refurb !) so the cable just comes out of small hole in the wall. This same cable works fine when the Toshiba TV (with built in receiver) is connected to it.

Two cables coming from the dish, one to each room.

Ok.

Process of elimination time. You need to swap the scenario around.

Bring the Toshiba to other room you never use.

Bring the Triax STB and TV to room were Toshiba was.

Switch on Toshiba first. Does it work - with Triax switched off? (i'm guessing not)

Now switch on Triax ? Does TV satellite now work ?

The Cush

STB. wrote: »

This added dimension, I can only assume is user related!

I'm sticking with component failure in the box with the TV supplying the LNB power when switched to satellite viewing.

His aunt's TSC will confirm no fault with his installation IMO.

IsThisOneFree

STB. wrote: »

Ok.

Process of elimination time. You need to swap the scenario around.

Bring the Toshiba to other room you never use.

Bring the Triax STB and TV to room were Toshiba was.

Switch on Toshiba first. Does it work - with Triax switched off? (i'm guessing not)

Now switch on Triax ? Does TV satellite now work ?

Already done that with the same result ... Toshiba works regardless, Triax works if Toshiba is on a Freesat channel

IsThisOneFree

The Cush wrote: »

I'm sticking with component failure in the box with the TV supplying the LNB power when switched to satellite viewing

I'm no expert on this, but I'm 99% convinced on that theory too !

STB.

The Cush wrote: »

I'm sticking with component failure in the box with the TV supplying the LNB power when switched to satellite viewing.

His aunt's TSC will confirm no fault with his installation IMO.

That would only make sense if the satellite cable was split between each room Cush.


Trying to watch a Vertically polarised channel on the TV whilst watching a Horizontally polarised channel on the other would prove that suspicion.

Eg: BBC One NI HD on TV (V), Channel 5 HD (H) on box. Are both working at same time?

IsThisOneFree

Eg: BBC One NI HD on TV (V), Channel 5 HD (H) on box. Are both working at same time?

I haven't tested every combination, but I know that some combinations work while others don't. A few weeks ago I was watching something on (I think) ITV2+1 on the TSC114 when all of a sudden I lost signal because somebody switched to a BBC channel on the Panasonic

STB.

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

I haven't tested every combination, but I know that some combinations work while others don't. A few weeks ago I was watching something on (I think) ITV2+1 on the TSC114 when all of a sudden I lost signal because somebody switched to a BBC channel on the Panasonic

Great. Suspicion confirmed.

The installer has split one satellite cable in the attic.

The TV is taking priority. You cannot power two satellite receivers off one cable.

You'll have to chase the cable in the attic to see what the installer did!

I'm guessing one cable in from dish to a T junction connector with two cables connected, one going to each room. Thats why you have the issue. You will not be able to watch seperate satellite channels on each at the same time otherwise. Also power pass splitter is going to TV first, hence why TV has to be on in order for set top box to work.

The Cush

At this stage attaching a know good receiver is the only way to confirm for sure, my initial suspicion stands based on the receiver's test in the aunt's house.

joeaverage

STB. wrote: »

Great. Suspicion confirmed.

The installer has split one satellite cable in the attic.

The TV is taking priority. You cannot power two satellite receivers off one cable.

You'll have to chase the cable in the attic to see what the installer did!

I'm guessing one cable in from dish to a T junction connector with two cables connected, one going to each room. Thats why you have the issue. You will not be able to watch seperate satellite channels on each at the same time otherwise. Also power pass splitter is going to TV first, hence why TV has to be on in order for set top box to work.

I'm with you there bud, there was a hint of that earlier on in the thread. He was watching separate channels, but on the same TP.

joeaverage

The Cush wrote: »

At this stage attaching a know good receiver is the only way to confirm for sure, my initial suspicion stands based on the receiver's test in the aunt's house.

But Cush, he didnt get the same result in both houses. It worked to some degree and was influenced by the Tosh TV in his house. It just didn't work in his aunts.

Johnboy1951

two cables into the attic ...... one Sat and the other Aerial?

Both split to serve two rooms?

Easy to find out ...

STB.

The Cush wrote: »

At this stage attaching a know good receiver is the only way to confirm for sure, my initial suspicion stands based on the receiver's test in the aunt's house.

Nah Cush, its a common one, although the OP didn't fully explain that they didnt have full channels on each if both are on.

The channel flick on the TV knocking out the signal on the STB proves the shared cable and the power pass requirement.

The installer assumed they wouldn't have both on at the same time, but as it is, its a requirement just to pass the power. LOL.

OP get into attic identify satellite cable coming in. Take a picture and post it here and anyone will advise you on what you need to do next. If there is only one cable coming in, you'll be very restricted.

joeaverage wrote: »

I'm with you there bud, there was a hint of that earlier on in the thread. He was watching separate channels, but on the same TP.

Yep. And the TV is getting priority, whatever way the installer looped it. I'm guessing one sided power pass splitter, or a load of masking tape!

STB.

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

I haven't tested every combination, but I know that some combinations work while others don't. A few weeks ago I was watching something on (I think) ITV2+1 on the TSC114 when all of a sudden I lost signal because somebody switched to a BBC channel on the Panasonic

Where and what is the Panasonic ?

So you now have three receivers ? A Panasonic, Toshiba, and a Triax box.

Same premise either way. One of your satellite cables is split into two, badly.

IsThisOneFree

STB. wrote: »

Where and what is the Panasonic ?

Sorry that was a typo, meant to say Toshiba

IsThisOneFree

So I grabbed the traix from my aunts house and tested it out here - it works fine. I tested as many channels as I could - not all of them worked, but a good enough scattering of them worked to convince me that there's nothing wrong with the installation. My aunt has had this box for a long time, and I'd say it probably needs to be re-scanned. I don't want to go doing that however as it's working OK the channels she watches, so I'd rather leave well enough alone.

I also tested various channels on the Toshiba at the same time and both boxes worked fine regardless of whether they were on Terrestrial / Satellite or both on Satellite (eg BBC and ITV/C4 channels).

I really didn't fancy climbing up in the attic as it's crawl space only and it's full of boxes right now. However, I did climb up to the dish and checked the LBN just to satisfy anybody's curiosity :-) It's a quad LNB.

Thanks everyone for all the input/feedback, very much appreciated.

STB.

Yes but you already explained that changing a channel on the Toshiba knocked out what you are watching on the Triax.

And you admit that not all of the channels work on the aunt's box. Its not a retuning problem.

The problem is that a single satellite cable is split into two hence your problems. Only by having two separate feeds from the lnb, one to each room, is the problem going to be fixed.

Just in case you needlessly go out and buy another box.

IsThisOneFree

Only by having two separate feeds from the lnb, one to each room, is the problem going to

I'm pretty convinced at this stage that there are two separate feeds because:
1. We have a quad LNB, so it would seem odd that the installer would install a more expensive LNB and then split a single cable
2. I was able to watch freesat using my aunt's box without the toshiba having to be on a remotely similar channel
3. When the toshiba is not on a freesat channel, the Satellite signal drops to 0%, and goes up to nearly 100% when the toshiba is switched. Which seems to be inline with the other theories here that the triax is not powering the LNB. If the problem were that the cable was split, then I'd expect the triax would work when the toshiba in on a saorview channel ?
4. Swapping the triax and toshiba didn't produce any different results
5. My triax did not work at my aunt's house

I managed to find a cheap box on adverts at the weekend locally so I'm planning on buying that. I'll post back once I've collected that and let you know the result. Thanks again for everyone's feedback

The Cush

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

I'm pretty convinced at this stage that there are two separate feeds because:
1. We have a quad LNB, so it would seem odd that the installer would install a more expensive LNB and then split a single cable

How many cables attached to the LNB?

STB.

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

I'm pretty convinced at this stage that there are two separate feeds because:

3. When the toshiba is not on a freesat channel, the Satellite signal drops to 0%, and goes up to nearly 100% when the toshiba is switched. Which seems to be inline with the other theories here that the triax is not powering the LNB. If the problem were that the cable was split, then I'd expect the triax would work when the toshiba in on a saorview channel ?

Regardless of what source you are watching, dvb-s2 or dvb-t, the dvbs2 tuner on the Toshiba is getting priority. On combo TV's the tuners would always be in a ready state and send power to the lnb when needed. Hence when switched to dvb-t, the power requirement is switched off and is not transferring the power to the looped cable to the Triax.

Couple this with the symptoms you have described including that someone switched to another sat channel on the Toshiba knocking out the channel you were watching on the Triax, signals a polarity (voltage) and or TP change, which can only be reconciled with a single shared cable, either looped with a splitter or junctioned with something like tape. The first point of the cable drop is at the Toshiba.

There is no other explanation for this scenario.

IsThisOneFree

How many cables attached to the LNB?

I don't know because I can't get up there right now. I just know that it's definitely a quad LNB

There is no other explanation for this scenario.

I don't see how that explains the fact that the box didn't work at my aunt's house though. Or the fact that my aunt's triax worked fine at our house all weekend