Lady can't have her hairy balls waxed [mod notes/warnings in post #1]

drunkmonkey

Wibbs wrote: »

As an aside; I do find it interesting that when the subject of transender comes up, it's almost exclusively around and about male to female transgender and this gets the most extreme views too. Female to male rarely raises its head, if at all. It's like they don't exist.

Yea I don't really understand why it's nearly a male exclusive problem you'd think women would want to be men more than men want to be women. I wonder what's up...

klaaaz

drunkmonkey wrote: »

There now also opening transgder wings and having special Transgender officers in prisons. Any hope of equality is being pushed further and further away from them as there now being segregated.
This is why the JY case is so important to the trans movement, it's about granting every right a woman has. I'm sure JY doesn't want to be segregated with men identifying as women in prison as that's not what she's into. I'm sure that story will come down the line after this one finishes.

A transsexual woman is in equal danger to any woman being mixed in prison with a transgender(real or fake) sex offender. This part is forgotten here, in the UK and Ireland they treat each prisoner on a case by case basis which is correct.

Wibbs wrote: »

As an aside; I do find it interesting that when the subject of transender comes up, it's almost exclusively around and about male to female transgender and this gets the most extreme views too. Female to male rarely raises its head, if at all. It's like they don't exist.

Society is obsessed with women and how they look. A man can got around with a pot belly and no-one mentions it. If a woman had extra weight around there, there is condemnation.

A fine example is Pierce Brosnan's new found love of his life when a photo of the pair on the beach was publicised. Alot of condemnation from men on social media on how the woman looked because she had a bit of weight on her that didn't fit into their perfect image on how a woman should look. It's the same attitude to trans women, they must fit their perfect image of beauty. A trans man is treated the same as any other man, he can still go around with a pot belly and not a word of condemnation.

drunkmonkey

What's the test for real or fake. Aren't the trans lobby groups here wanting to outlaw any test or medical opinion as to their chosen gender.
They also want the right for the state to take under 16's off their parents if they feel the parents are misgendering them. How's that one work.
This is what I'm taking about pushing too far, if that ever happened I can see a run on flagpoles.

Will I Am Not

klaaaz wrote: »

A transsexual woman is in equal danger to any woman being mixed in prison with a transgender(real or fake) sex offender. This part is forgotten here, in the UK and Ireland they treat each prisoner on a case by case basis which is correct.



Society is obsessed with women and how they look. A man can got around with a pot belly and no-one mentions it. If a woman had extra weight around there, there is condemnation.

A fine example is Pierce Brosnan's new found love of his life when a photo of the pair on the beach was publicised. Alot of condemnation from men on social media on how the woman looked because she had a bit of weight on her that didn't fit into their perfect image on how a woman should look. It's the same attitude to trans women, they must fit their perfect image of beauty. A trans man is treated the same as any other man, he can still go around with a pot belly and not a word of condemnation.

I find it’s mostly women that are more concerned about how women look tbh.

Charmeleon

Will I Am Not wrote: »

I find it’s mostly women that are more concerned about how women look tbh.

I’ve yet to see a man’s magazine with ‘Star of TVShowX battles the pounds as she covers up on beaches of Monaco’. Every day on the cover of women’s magazines.

Wibbs

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Yea I don't really understand why it's nearly a male exclusive problem you'd think women would want to be men more than men want to be women. I wonder what's up...

It's not a male exclusive there are trans women to men. I meant that the attention is almost always focused on the trans men to women.

klaaaz wrote: »

Society is obsessed with women and how they look. A man can got around with a pot belly and no-one mentions it. If a woman had extra weight around there, there is condemnation.

A fine example is Pierce Brosnan's new found love of his life when a photo of the pair on the beach was publicised. Alot of condemnation from men on social media on how the woman looked because she had a bit of weight on her that didn't fit into their perfect image on how a woman should look. It's the same attitude to trans women, they must fit their perfect image of beauty. A trans man is treated the same as any other man, he can still go around with a pot belly and not a word of condemnation.

1) they've been together for over 20 years so not so new found 2) the vast majority of "fat shaming" of women in the media is by other women in outlets written and edited in the main by women aimed at a female audience. As I've noted before; in one week on Pornhub, aimed at a majority male audience, you'll find more "diversity" in women's sizes, shapes, ages and ethnicity than in a century's worth of Vogue or Cosmo. Hell transgender is even in the mix. The "patriarchy" doesn't seem to care nearly so much as claimed, or has far wider notions of sexual attractiveness than any imaginary "matriarchy". 3) Female to male seems to get better results as far as passing. Which makes sense physiologically. So don't stand out as much which would help.

Penn

Wibbs wrote: »

It's not a male exclusive there are trans women to men. I meant that the attention is almost always focused on the trans men to women.

Agreed. Especially when it comes to the whole toilet debate. It's always about how trans women should use the men's toilets because they were born as male, and if trans women could use women's toilets, you'd have perverts dressing up as women in order to try get access to the women's toilets and possibly hurt a child.

However, by the same logic, trans men would therefore have to use the women's toilets as they were born as female. Which would mean trans men, with short hair, possible facial hair, no obvious breasts (either due to surgery or binding), deep voices, dressed like men... would have to go into the women's toilets. Which means a) perverts wouldn't even need to dress up as a woman, they could just claim they're a trans man, and b) women/girls may not recognise they're potentially in danger from a man entering the toilets as they would have to assume they're a trans man.

But trans men are never considered as part of the equation because people and the media are always focused more on trans women.

klaaaz

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What's the test for real or fake. Aren't the trans lobby groups here wanting to outlaw any test or medical opinion as to their chosen gender.
They also want the right for the state to take under 16's off their parents if they feel the parents are misgendering them. How's that one work.
This is what I'm taking about pushing too far, if that ever happened I can see a run on flagpoles.

The self ID here came into law in 2015, our own Gender Recognition Act. As stated numerous times to deaf ears there are exemptions under the Equal Status Act on providing services, the likes of the Canadian wouldn't have a hope winning a similar case here.
As for under 16's, there has been a review of the GRA with no decision yet on under 16's.

Wibbs wrote:

3) Female to male seems to get better results as far as passing. Which makes sense physiologically. So don't stand out as much which would help.

Testosterone is a more powerful hormone than estrogen, results happen quicker in a transition for a ftm than for a mtf using estrogen. And yes, the later the transition that happens it makes it harder to "pass". Genetics also play a part too, you'd swear here that most trans women look like men when in fact they don't, some of the one's I met in Ireland are impossible to distinguish from cisgender women.

Annasopra

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Personally, I think the whole non binary thing is nonsense and a sign of an outdated way of thinking. Sex is a binary, male and female, but gender isn't. I'd love it if more people could feel free to be gender non conforming, because gender stereotypes are a load of nonsense. What's wrong with a man wearing make up or traditionally "feminine" clothes? Nothing. But no, in this day and age it seems like people (and men in particular) can't do this. So they have to be "non binary" and become a special protected group in order to just be themselves. I mean, it's just clothes.

Ye wha? Gender isnt just clothes!

hatrickpatrick

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Personally, I think the whole non binary thing is nonsense and a sign of an outdated way of thinking. Sex is a binary, male and female, but gender isn't. I'd love it if more people could feel free to be gender non conforming, because gender stereotypes are a load of nonsense. What's wrong with a man wearing make up or traditionally "feminine" clothes? Nothing. But no, in this day and age it seems like people (and men in particular) can't do this. So they have to be "non binary" and become a special protected group in order to just be themselves. I mean, it's just clothes.

But why do we have to define it as "sex is binary, gender isn't"? Why can't we just say that gender and sex are synonymous and only describe purely physical attributes, while everything else currently tied up with "gender identity" is simply an expression of individuality? Why can't it be, instead of "I do this because I'm a genderfluid pansexual non binary person", "I do this because I'm hatrickpatrick, nice to meet you"? First and last names are literally the labels society invented in order to distinguish one individual from another, that the whole point of them.

drunkmonkey

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Ye wha? Gender isnt just clothes!

Then why the need to play dress up. Couldn't someone be trans and never wear a dress or makeup.
A good few women wear pants, jeans, t-shirts these days. My personal view some look a lot better like that than the ones all dressed up for a tango commercial.

Penn

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Then why the need to play dress up. Couldn't someone be trans and never wear a dress or makeup.
A good few women wear pants, jeans, t-shirts these days. My personal view some look a lot better like that than the ones all dressed up for a tango commercial.

Some women are more feminine than others, and that goes for both cisgender and transgender women. Some trans women want to wear dresses, they want to wear makeup, and why shouldn't they? Similarly, some cisgender women don't want to wear dresses, and don't want to wear makeup, and why should they?

Gender isn't about clothes or makeup, but people can sometimes use both as a way of expressing themselves, making themselves look as good as possible (in their own subjective way based on their own preferences) and ultimately just because they want to. Why does it matter?

Wibbs

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Ye wha? Gender isnt just clothes!

Penn wrote: »

Gender isn't about clothes or makeup,

OK so what is gender?

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

OK so what is gender?

It's complex....

(Read: we're afraid to say what we think it means as it seems to vary on a daily basis and if I say something wrong I'll get "cancelled")

Venom

Wibbs wrote: »

As an aside; I do find it interesting that when the subject of transender comes up, it's almost exclusively around and about male to female transgender and this gets the most extreme views too. Female to male rarely raises its head, if at all. It's like they don't exist.

It's probably down to a lack of need for society to take an interest in what Trans-Men get up to for the most part, as they tend not to bother anyone else in how they live their lives, or have a big impact on how others live theirs. Leaving aside the subject of this thread who I don't consider to be a real Trans-person, just a pervert pretending to be one so as to get access to young girls, Trans-Women tend to pop up way more often in the media with sporting events being the prime example, where these ex-men absolutely dominate the sport over the biological women taking part.

Neyite

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Ye wha? Gender isnt just clothes!

Could you give us one example of something that applies to women universally as a gender marker denoting they are women -trans women included?

Penn

Wibbs wrote: »

OK so what is gender?

Personally (as I'm assuming you're not just looking for a dictionary definition), I view gender as basically the cross between male/female and masculine/feminine, eg. in the same way sexuality is something of a sliding scale between heterosexual and homosexual (where most would be at one end of the scale), most people would be masculine males or feminine females, but that there are other points along the scales where one could be a feminine male or masculine female, regardless of how binary the sexes are.

Ultimately I believe our own minds should be the determinant of what our positions on those scales are rather than just our bodies. I came to the realisation years ago that for a trans person, the choice between simply staying as the gender you were born as (say for example born male but wants to be female) and just continuing to live as a man, or transitioning to female with all the discrimination that goes with it in terms of being trans, requiring medical (and possible surgical) treatments, possible exclusion by family/friends and everything else that trans people face, to me it seems like a simple choice; stay male.

The fact that so many choose to transition in spite of the hardships they'll face shows that for those people, staying as they were born is not a choice at all because to them, that's worse than transitioning. That's how powerful the feelings must be that your gender does not match the body you have. It's easy for me to say it's a simple choice to stay as you are as I have no experience of what it's like to not feel like my gender matches my body.

To me (and I fully admit I'm making the most uninformed not-researched take on this) it makes sense that somewhere along the lines of gestation, the brain of a foetus may develop differently to the rest of the body/chromosomes resulting in a person being born trans. As uneducated as I am on the topic, that just makes sense to me as a possibility. So if we have to take what gender a person is when there's a conflict between the body and the mind, I side with the mind.

That's just my own opinion on the topic of gender. I'm sure it can be picked apart by others, but ultimately I side with letting others live their lives however they want if it doesn't hurt anyone else.

vladmydad

klaaaz wrote: »

Agree here, there is still such a strict conservative attitude among a section of the populace about what men can wear or not. Apparently some people get upset at the thought of some men who would like to wear feminine clothes or makeup, some nonsense about protecting traditional gender roles and gender norms.

About non-binary. In my interactions with the lgbt community i've found that alot of non-binary people were female at birth and they're young(under 35). And so do some men who crossdress, they are not transgender. Those men just like the clothes & makeup in self expression which is wonderful and still need in 2019 a safe space to be out in public. This takes an enormous stressful toll on them, they are being forced to be that "special protected group" because of conservative attitudes to what people can wear for one's gender.

I for one couldn’t care less what anyone wears, however male clothing and grooming has become much more feminine in recent years.... skinny jeans anyone

Regardless of opinions on transgenderism etc I believe we all can come together and condemn skinny jeans #banskinnyjeans. Lol

AbusesToilets

Penn wrote: »

Personally (as I'm assuming you're not just looking for a dictionary definition), I view gender as basically the cross between male/female and masculine/feminine, eg. in the same way sexuality is something of a sliding scale between heterosexual and homosexual (where most would be at one end of the scale), most people would be masculine males or feminine females, but that there are other points along the scales where one could be a feminine male or masculine female, regardless of how binary the sexes are.

Ultimately I believe our own minds should be the determinant of what our positions on those scales are rather than just our bodies. I came to the realisation years ago that for a trans person, the choice between simply staying as the gender you were born as (say for example born male but wants to be female) and just continuing to live as a man, or transitioning to female with all the discrimination that goes with it in terms of being trans, requiring medical (and possible surgical) treatments, possible exclusion by family/friends and everything else that trans people face, to me it seems like a simple choice; stay male.

The fact that so many choose to transition in spite of the hardships they'll face shows that for those people, staying as they were born is not a choice at all because to them, that's worse than transitioning. That's how powerful the feelings must be that your gender does not match the body you have. It's easy for me to say it's a simple choice to stay as you are as I have no experience of what it's like to not feel like my gender matches my body.

To me (and I fully admit I'm making the most uninformed not-researched take on this) it makes sense that somewhere along the lines of gestation, the brain of a foetus may develop differently to the rest of the body/chromosomes resulting in a person being born trans. As uneducated as I am on the topic, that just makes sense to me as a possibility. So if we have to take what gender a person is when there's a conflict between the body and the mind, I side with the mind.

That's just my own opinion on the topic of gender. I'm sure it can be picked apart by others, but ultimately I side with letting others live their lives however they want if it doesn't hurt anyone else.

That's a good way to put it I think. To me, as a parent, if one of my kids were to be diagnosed with dysphoria, and there was a legit therapy to treat that, I wouldn't hesitate to do so. That to me is the difference with respect to the discussion of trans issues and those of sexuality, as it pertains to historical examples of attempts to "correct" it. Dysphoria is a biological dissonance between the mind and body.

vladmydad

Just on a broader point. I saw online yesterday, an Islamic lady shouting and harassing a man with a rainbow flag, in Britain. Also those protests on lgbt sex education in Muslim schools have resumed. I believe this is going to become a much bigger issue in the future. It was always a ticking time bomb for the left to embrace both lgbt and Islam. It’s only a matter of time before a transgender teacher or doctor is rebuffed by a Muslim and it’ll kick off.

drunkmonkey

vladmydad wrote: »

skinny jeans anyone

That's probably where it all began. The snowflakes squeezing their balls, growing beards and having tight hair cuts just to show there different to generation X which had baggy jeans and long blond hair.
Seems to be going full circle, I've seen the cool kids in boot cut jeans and army surplus store jackets starting to pop up around.
It warms my heart a little, now if they could all just stop with the sock thing. Is it a way of self identifing, no socks your gay, white socks your straight but look worse than the no socks guys who look terrible. It's Ireland ffs put on some socks and not white ones.

ceadaoin.

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Ye wha? Gender isnt just clothes!

I was talking about people who wear clothes that are traditionally for the opposite gender and who aren't transgender. Clothes are just clothes

Amalgam

vladmydad wrote: »

Just on a broader point. I saw online yesterday, an Islamic lady shouting and harassing a man with a rainbow flag, in Britain. Also those protests on lgbt sex education in Muslim schools have resumed. I believe this is going to become a much bigger issue in the future. It was always a ticking time bomb for the left to embrace both lgbt and Islam. It’s only a matter of time before a transgender teacher or doctor is rebuffed by a Muslim and it’ll kick off.

It is going to be a much bigger issue. The UK Government contacted the headmistress of the Birmingham school at the center of the current impasse over LGBT education, to stop the studies, yet have categorically denied doing so.. The government do not want to touch this issue publicly, with a ten foot barge pole.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-birmingham-49110151

The government put "extreme pressure" on a school to stop lessons on LGBT relationships, a chief executive said.

Hazel Pulley said Parkfield Community School suspended the teachings following "frantic phone calls" from the Department for Education (DfE).

"The DfE really wanted the protests to stop. They wanted it out of the press," said Ms Pulley, who is head of the trust which runs the school.

There's a lot of spin going on now, throwing shade on the organizer, his character and religious background, usual muck-raking. Yet these are parents that want to guide their sons and daughters through life and I have no problem with that. They're not someone elses's kids after all.

What gives, we no longer 'intrude' on children with religion in this state, for instance, yet it seems to be, 'anything goes', for equally difficult and polarising social issues that parents don't need to burden their offspring with, at such a young age.

LoughNeagh2017

I can't stand the double standards of this world, you can change sex, you can marry same sex, you can marry man 20 years younger than you, etc but when an adult man lives with his mother it is "wrong" and "unnatural", one rule for one person and another rule for another, I am open minded even though noone is open minded in anything about my life. The world is a toxic and sordid place especially if you are a genetically inferior man.

Beasty

vladmydad wrote: »

Just on a broader point. I saw online yesterday, an Islamic lady shouting and harassing a man with a rainbow flag, in Britain. Also those protests on lgbt sex education in Muslim schools have resumed. I believe this is going to become a much bigger issue in the future. It was always a ticking time bomb for the left to embrace both lgbt and Islam. It’s only a matter of time before a transgender teacher or doctor is rebuffed by a Muslim and it’ll kick off.

Christ almighty! Why do people try and bring race/religion into every discussion? I guess it's because people know it's a controversial topic and will get reactions

Anyway, that's enough of the Muslim talk in this thread. Any more will bring about sanctions

Any questions please PM me - do not respond to this warning in-thread

Thanks

ingalway

Wibbs wrote: »

As an aside; I do find it interesting that when the subject of transender comes up, it's almost exclusively around and about male to female transgender and this gets the most extreme views too. Female to male rarely raises its head, if at all. It's like they don't exist.

Male to female pose far more of a threat physically than female to male ever would. Not many men are ever going to feel threatened physically or sexually by a trans man in a changing room, bathroom, prison etc and I very much doubt any trans men will be breaking sports records in men's sports or breaking anyone's bones playing in team sports. Ego seems to be much greater in the male to female TRA's so they get much more media coverage.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

klaaaz wrote: »

The self ID here came into law in 2015, our own Gender Recognition Act. As stated numerous times to deaf ears there are exemptions under the Equal Status Act on providing services, the likes of the Canadian wouldn't have a hope winning a similar case here.
As for under 16's, there has been a review of the GRA with no decision yet on under 16's.

Here’s what the equal status act says.

As between any two persons, the discriminatory grounds (and the descriptions of those grounds for the purposes of this Act) are:

(a) that one is male and the other is female (gender).

But gender is what was redefined by the 2015 act. Of course it’s up to the courts to decide but if a transgender person is legally of the gender she or he claims (and in fact is legally so on the birth cert) then the equal status act applies in their favour.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Penn wrote: »

...but ultimately I side with letting others live their lives however they want if it doesn't hurt anyone else.

Nobody is disagreeing with the first part there, it’s the bold part that’s in dispute. In fact this thread is about a specific case which is in fact hurting other people, or businesses.

ingalway

ingalway wrote: »

Male to female pose far more of a threat physically than female to male ever would. Not many men are ever going to feel threatened physically or sexually by a trans man in a changing room, bathroom, prison etc and I very much doubt any trans men will be breaking sports records in men's sports or breaking anyone's bones playing in team sports. Ego seems to be much greater in the male to female TRA's so they get much more media coverage.

I'd call it ego as well.
Can't imagine them taking this one quietly the other way around
https://sdgln.com/news/2018/07/18/canadian-gay-male-facebook-group-wont-accept-trans-men-dysphoric-females-are-not-and?fbclid=IwAR1wmr7oYSXqGZX7G3D5lsuNM5YKzMwZ8lMalg6g_AtobUdkdyfVQWWj8ec

scottish government seem to be on the case here
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17800511.snp-women-39-s-convener-criticised-insisting-canadian-trans-woman-jessica-yaniv-39-female-predator-39/

NKante

vladmydad wrote: »

Just on a broader point. I saw online yesterday, an Islamic lady shouting and harassing a man with a rainbow flag, in Britain. Also those protests on lgbt sex education in Muslim schools have resumed. I believe this is going to become a much bigger issue in the future. It was always a ticking time bomb for the left to embrace both lgbt and Islam. It’s only a matter of time before a transgender teacher or doctor is rebuffed by a Muslim and it’ll kick off.

I'm all out of fecks.

The left promoted this mass immigration of a culture that in major parts is not compatible with liberal democracies.

And they did this despite it negatively affecting other minorities already here, like Jews and the gays. They didn't care because Islam trumps everything else on the victim scale.

Now the left are like....umm, ahhh, didn't expect this lot in Niqabs to be anti-gay. Let's just brush this under the carpet. The same carpet as the grooming gangs were brushed under.

Don't get me started on the "queers for palestine" mob either. Like "Turkeys for Christmas"