Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2019/2020

The Nal

Adamcp898 wrote: »

On Rom fellas; I was never a fan as some of you know but the longer it goes since he left us the better he becomes in some people's eyes.

He has 3 goals in 4 league games for Inter this season but by all reports he has been ****e in between.

Rashford has 3 goals in 6 league games and been poor in between also.

Let's stop talking as if we just sold Ronaldo all over again, we'd be in the exact same position if we had kept him.

And all this talk about why did he force his way out? Perhaps think back and answer the question why had Jose already dropped him before Ole even took over first?

Selling him is one thing but not replacing him is madness and here we are 6 games into the season with an injury crisis already.

Adamcp898

The Nal wrote: »

Selling him is one thing but not replacing him is madness and here we are 6 games into the season with an injury crisis already.

I completely agree. Not buying another forward option is the mistake here, not getting rid of an under-performing player not suited to the team.

clubberlang12

I really wish some would grasp the concept that the issue isn't with selling Lukaku..........it's selling him without a replacement!! What some are lamenting is that rightly or wrongly, Ole let it be known that Lukaku wasn't going to be his starting no.9 as early as Feb/March. I have no issue with Lukaku not wanting to bench it in favour of a young inconsistant winger who had very little form as no.9 If we all could see that, I'm very positive Ole and the board knew it. This is where the damage was done. They should have been working to move on Lukaku from the moment the season finished. They didn't!! Lukaku was mentioning Conte and Inter early in the summer, so i think it's safe to assume there was contact. United being terrible at negotiating deals is nothing new, so perhaps this lack of movement in reaching an agreement for an unhappy player with little future at the club is the problem resulting in Lukaku "striking"!!!
Perhaps if Ole hadn't been so cavalier in dropping Lukaku and man managing him better , letting him know that his game time could be reduced but that he would still have major parts to play, there may not have been this issue. The whole issue is quite simply.........letting it get so late in the window and not replacing him. The fact we are talking about an injury to a 17 year striker who has appeared a handful of times shows how much of a cock up the board and Ole made of the whole striker situation and the squad management. You make your bed, you lie in it.

Jurgen The German

Your Airbag wrote: »

I've mentioned it already twice now so here we go again in baby steps to see if you can get it.

Rom deciding he wanted out and the reasons he wanted out have nothing to do with the arguments getting thrown around of Ole having left us without a striker on the bench to replace Rashford. Its that simple a point really but you just don't want to listen.

I mean it couldn't be more recent that our other striking option scored the winner for us, it was in our last home game.

Greenwood and Martial would have come on yesterday if available, they weren't, its that basic a point that we have two other striking options in the squad and Ole didn't opt to hope Rashford doesn't get a injury all season and plays every game. Its simply nonesense, and you were banging on about points being misrepresented, laughable. Has that made it clearer for you or do you want to ignore the point again?

So choosing to drop our top scorer in favour of two misfiring players and a 17 year old is not Oles fault.

That's cool bro, I don't agree but hey ho.

DARK-KNIGHT

Lukaku

3 goals from 4 games so far

Like him or not

Laugh at his touch all we want

The guy puts the ball in the net which is what we are missing

A joke not replacing him

micks_address

I disagree respectfully.. we are building a team from the back.. situation not helped by pogba, lukaku, Fred and Sanchez... I'd have done exactly the same so far.. I'd have tried very hard to get a striker in that rashford could play off but these things are impossible to fix in one window... Id easily say our back four and keeper are up their with the best of them.. if the likes of greenwood doesn't turn out to be a rooney then we have to buy big next summer.. I'm still not sure about pogba.. I think surrounded by quality players he's great.. he's not a digging in the trenches sort of player.. mctominnay I think is another nicky butt... Solid but I'm not sure.. maybe beside pogba an another creative mid he'd work.. next summer the euros are on so maybe a few players will shake loose.. I'm over to see arsenal next Monday night.. Probably be entertaining at least

Jurgen The German wrote: »

micks_address wrote: »

I don't think we could have gotten bissaka, Maguire and James along with three attacking players in the same transfer window.. I'd rather have the solid defense and goalkeeper we have now than a good striker and terrible defense..it's not going to be a great season but if we sign three quality players next summer I'd be happy enough. In fairness the current approach makes sense longer term.. it's just going to be painful short term.. now if they don't buy quality further up the pitch then I'll be first one looking for a change. If you look at Liverpool even with the great attack things didn't start to work until they sorted out their goalkeeper and defense.. we have that end right just the attack is lacking

Liverpool's turnaround has been down to the fact they employed a competent and experienced manager and the board fully support him and what he wants to achieve. There is a clear vision. The current vision we have is akin to looking into the toilet in the bookies office in Trainspotting.

bucketybuck

micks_address wrote: »

but these things are impossible to fix in one window...

No, they really aren't. When you know for months before the window even opens that you want to replace a striker then no, it isn't impossible to make something happen, even if other deals are being done as well.

Which is why I do believe this all lays at the feet of Ole and that he actively vetoed certain replacement options in favour of putting all his eggs in the Rashford/Martial basket. A decision that shows him to have poor judgement in my opinion.

damowill

bucketybuck wrote: »

We all assume that Ole demanded new strikers and that Woodward did not provide,

he completely overvalued the potential and abilities of the younger players.

But it is what Ole wanted.

Just to point put, Ole said this after the game,
we lack that type of striker, we lack goals.

I dont know if it is as you say, it was Ole's decision not to go with more strikers and put faith in youth. But perhaps he had no choice if he only have x amount to spend and Woodward wouldn't buy him one... whichever, its a mess. But yesterday he clearly stated we lack goals so i would assume he felt we would lack goals prior to the season starting.

micks_address

Show us an example where a team has bought six top player's in one window? Sure we could have spent 80 million on a striker instead of Maguire...I'd rather have Maguire and suffer q season and buy more then

bucketybuck wrote: »

micks_address wrote: »

but these things are impossible to fix in one window...

No, they really aren't. When you know for months before the window even opens that you want to replace a striker then no, it isn't impossible to make something happen, even if other deals are being done as well.

Which is why I do believe this all lays at the feet of Ole and that he actively vetoed certain replacement options in favour of putting all his eggs in the Rashford/Martial basket. A decision that shows him to have poor judgement in my opinion.

Fitz*

Said this in mid-May (https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110172749&postcount=3713)

some bits include;

United are in massive trouble on the field.

The manager really doesn't know what he is doing. He fell into the job because of his history, not on merit. The initial bounce worked out well as players were playing with a freedom and no fear from a public scathing if something went wrong.

In terms of next season, there are some major decisions to be taken at United and I think the main one is whether or not they sack the manager. Seriously.

Rashford has been shocking for weeks and Lingard, I really don't know. They seem to be happy to have 'made it' now at United. They are the fancy dans now in the squad and seem to be happy at this level personally. Poor mentality.

I've seen this happen at my own club so I'm well able to talk on it. I've seen us come out the other end from the doldrums of that weak embarrassing dressing room. Takes a clear vision to implement it. It can take years. And for all the criticism ye give Klopp, he is exactly what United need right now.

Every bit of it is still true today as it was then.

The on-field playing still is still poor. Trying to get penalties and then sitting back to play on the counter. It's a really really bad set up and tactic to have. It's not sustainable at all. Bad management but I'm sure a few people will still be saying 'it's ok cos Fergie used to win with penalties too' :rolleyes: Of course penalties are part of the game and I'm not saying that a lot of these were not warranted at all apart from maybe PSG & West Ham, it's just that it is totally unsustainable and results in the manager being found out.

Here is a run through of all competitive games played by United since the PSG away game. Rough time since Ole got the job full-time. I don't know the exact date.

Astana home (W) Greenwood
Leicester home (W) Rashford pen
Chelsea home (W) Rashford pen & other goals after playing on counter against Naive Lampard team
West Ham home (W) Pogba 2 penalties - really lucky to win that too
Watford home (W) Rashford & Martial
PSG away (W) Lukaku x2 & Rashford penalty last minute to win

Wolves away (D) (also penalty miss)
Saints away (D)
Huddersfield away (D)
Chelsea home (D)

Wolves away (L)
Wolves away (L)
Barca away (L)
Barca home (L)
Arsenal away (L)
West Ham away (L)
Palace home (L) (also penalty miss)
Cardiff home home (L)
Man City home (L)
Everton away (L)

Played 20
Won 6
Drawn 4
Lost 10

of those 6 wins, 4 were as a result of scoring 5 penalties and hanging on.

pjohnson

Its pretty much a fact that on transfers it takes about a month to sign one player. And we can only work on one player at a time.

bucketybuck

damowill wrote: »

Just to point put, Ole said this after the game,
we lack that type of striker, we lack goals.

I've never given much credence to what Ole says to be honest, I think he comes out with a lot of soundbites. They get lapped up when things are good but just make him look foolish later down the line.

Regardless, its perfectly plausible that what he thinks today is not what he thought during the summer, thats not all that strange for an inexperienced manager who had a dream but is finding the cold reality to be very different.

Whatsisname

The PR Machine has spoken

https://twitter.com/ESPNUK/status/1176079234885922816?s=20

bucketybuck

micks_address wrote: »

Show us an example where a team has bought six top player's in one window? Sure we could have spent 80 million on a striker instead of Maguire...I'd rather have Maguire and suffer q season and buy more then

I'd answer this, except it is a strawman that has little to do with anything I had talked about.

Headshot

Whatsisname wrote: »

The PR Machine has spoken

https://twitter.com/ESPNUK/status/1176079234885922816?s=20

what absolute rubbish. It makes comical Ali look honest.

Whatsisname

Whatsisname wrote: »

The PR Machine has spoken

https://twitter.com/ESPNUK/status/1176079234885922816?s=20

These messages are aimed directly at investors in reality.
It would make you puke.
What an absolute mess.

Father Hernandez

Whatsisname wrote: »

The PR Machine has spoken

https://twitter.com/ESPNUK/status/1176079234885922816?s=20

Is there an official source where this is coming from? Can't see anything on the website, etc

damowill

bucketybuck wrote: »

I've never given much credence to what Ole says to be honest, I think he comes out with a lot of soundbites. They get lapped up when things are good but just make him look foolish later down the line.

Regardless, its perfectly plausible that what he thinks today is not what he thought during the summer, thats not all that strange for an inexperienced manager who had a dream but is finding the cold reality to be very different.

I just cant believe Ole would be happy with Fellaini, Herrera, Lukaku and Sanchez leaving without replacing them (or replacing them with 17-19 year old kids).

Its my belief that the transfer budget wasnt there. Lets say he had €100m more to spend but choose not to because he believed in the kids? I dont buy it for a second!! The money just wasnt there and he had to make do.

Father Hernandez

https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/1176072258525245440?s=20

I never really believed it til v recently but Simon Stone is more and more of a Woodward PR man than ever which is disappointing.

Good for official United source of news/info but these sort of tweets are v on the side of the 'business' having followed his Twitter account and source of news for a long time.

"Isn't true but that's how it seems."

Father Hernandez

Father Hernandez wrote: »

Good for official United source of news/info but these sort of tweets are v on the side of the 'business' having followed his Twitter account and source of news for a long time.

"Isn't true but that's how it seems."

See here;

https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/1175776029123760128

Like I mean he's Woodwards mouthpiece.

There is an argument to be made that yes it was OGS decision but he will always back the board in his comms it seems.

Trigger

Whatsisname wrote: »

The PR Machine has spoken

https://twitter.com/ESPNUK/status/1176079234885922816?s=20

They are in their ****e! The owners are just trying to protect their dividends. If they really believed that Statement, Ole wouldnt be in charge, or at least he would have been sacked by now

Father Hernandez

Whatsisname wrote: »

The PR Machine has spoken

https://twitter.com/ESPNUK/status/1176079234885922816?s=20

Father Hernandez wrote: »

Is there an official source where this is coming from? Can't see anything on the website, etc

Here is an official source just tweeted

https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/1176090786850594816?s=20

What a load of shyte, plenty will fall for this crap.

Whatsisname

Father Hernandez wrote: »

Is there an official source where this is coming from? Can't see anything on the website, etc

Father Hernandez wrote: »

Here is an official source just tweeted

https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/1176090786850594816?s=20

What a load of shyte, plenty will fall for this crap.

Ironic how we haven't heard about it until a pathetic defeat yesterday considering it happened a week ago. Laughable.

Adamcp898

Father Hernandez wrote: »

https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/1176072258525245440?s=20

I never really believed it til v recently but Simon Stone is more and more of a Woodward PR man than ever which is disappointing.

Good for official United source of news/info but these sort of tweets are v on the side of the 'business' having followed his Twitter account and source of news for a long time.

"Isn't true but that's how it seems."

Ah yeah, here we are, the club trying to get out in front of the story again. Darren Fletcher & Rio coming back to the club story will surely follow.


“I swear it’s not what it looks like”

The Nal

Keane is dead right. This is the worst Utd squad and most under qualified manager since relegation in the 70s.

Backstreet Moyes

I can't get my head around posters who were fuming and slating Jose minutely last season and are defending Ole when the results are worse, the football is worse, the manager is worse, the squad is worse and under Ole the club is on target for a mid table finish or worse

Jurgen The German

Nuts102 wrote: »

I can't get my head around posters who were fuming and slating Jose minutely last season and are defending Ole when the results are worse, the football is worse, the manager is worse, the squad is worse and under Ole the club is on target for a mid table finish or worse

I can think of one or two reasons anyway.

clubberlang12

Nuts102 wrote: »

I can't get my head around posters who were fuming and slating Jose minutely last season and are defending Ole when the results are worse, the football is worse, the manager is worse, the squad is worse and under Ole the club is on target for a mid table finish or worse

Hurt pride.

They shouted so much that Jose was the main issue, that they blatantly refuse to believe the evidence in front of them now.

One of my fav's from last season was "under Jose's spell"!!! Kind of ironic now they seem to be under Ole's Spell.

Cantona's Collars

Best chant that I heard at a game was when Newcastle were beating us at home before Sanchez scored the winner.
"Jose's right,the board are sh1te".
Whatever people's thoughts on the man,he wasn't far off.

sky88

clubberlang12 wrote: »

Hurt pride.

They shouted so much that Jose was the main issue, that they blatantly refuse to believe the evidence in front of them now.

One of my fav's from last season was "under Jose's spell"!!! Kind of ironic now they seem to be under Ole's Spell.

Still think Jose had to go relationships with players and board seemed to be non existent & I think he just wanted out as well but the real problem continues to be absolute terrible decisions from the board to not wait until end of the season to appoint new manager.

weve still got fans and ex players who are saying ole needs more time like rio was saying yesterday just forgetting that ole has been poor with tactics & player selection throughout the run. We all know know real problems lays in boardroom but Ole is just not good enough either. Even if we had got players like bruno fernandes & replaced lukaku in i dont have any faith in Ole getting the best out of the team

Rayne Wooney

There was a snippet from the club accounts last year that stated the goals at the start of the season and whether they were achieved at the end, finishing second etc

I’m looking forward to seeing the same tomorrow, I’m guessing top 4 was one of the goals, and to see what bullshít they come out with as to why we didn’t achieve it, I’m guessing “turbulent” and “future” will be the key words of the day.

Adamcp898

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

There was a snippet from the club accounts last year that stated the goals at the start of the season and whether they were achieved at the end, finishing second etc

I’m looking forward to seeing the same tomorrow, I’m guessing top 4 was one of the goals, and to see what bullshít they come out with as to why we didn’t achieve it, I’m guessing “turbulent” and “future” will be the key words of the day.

Inflation in the transfer market will no doubt get a nod. Bonus points if they implicate a developing "trend" of players choosing to run down their contracts and the difficulty in competing with clubs wage terms for players they don't need to pay a transfer fee for.

Backstreet Moyes

sky88 wrote: »

Still think Jose had to go relationships with players and board seemed to be non existent & I think he just wanted out as well but the real problem continues to be absolute terrible decisions from the board to not wait until end of the season to appoint new manager.

weve still got fans and ex players who are saying ole needs more time like rio was saying yesterday just forgetting that ole has been poor with tactics & player selection throughout the run. We all know know real problems lays in boardroom but Ole is just not good enough either. Even if we had got players like bruno fernandes & replaced lukaku in i dont have any faith in Ole getting the best out of the team

Of course he had to go if he had a competent board and a club as motivated as himself we would be comfortably in the top 3

The man's biggest problem was he is a born winner at a club who has interest in winning anything and he cracked up

clubberlang12

sky88 wrote: »

Still think Jose had to go relationships with players and board seemed to be non existent & I think he just wanted out as well but the real problem continues to be absolute terrible decisions from the board to not wait until end of the season to appoint new manager.

weve still got fans and ex players who are saying ole needs more time like rio was saying yesterday just forgetting that ole has been poor with tactics & player selection throughout the run. We all know know real problems lays in boardroom but Ole is just not good enough either. Even if we had got players like bruno fernandes & replaced lukaku in i dont have any faith in Ole getting the best out of the team

I agree too that in the end he had to leave. It's the path up to that point that is blurred for a number of posters. Jose is a winner and wants to win. When the board had different ideas he called them out. When some players didn't give enough to warrant being at this club.....he called them out. A manager with no allegiance to this club was looking for better from the club and players. A current Man Utd legend is managing the club and seems unwilling to criticise the obvious deficiencies in the club and it's running. Go figure!! Sure Jose made some mistakes too, but everyone knows that is Mourinho......take it or leave it. Let's not forget the club gave him a new contract only months before. This is the same board who's decision making we keep questioning. I don't blame Ole, and won't look back at him with any resentment......but he clearly shouldn't be managing this team.

S.M.B.

Little point in getting a "world class" manager in the door if so many areas of the club are operating at much lower levels. I genuinely don't know if its a result of the Glazers unwillingness to invest or its simply a failure to effectively run an organisation.

pjohnson

Nuts102 wrote: »

I can't get my head around posters who were fuming and slating Jose minutely last season and are defending Ole when the results are worse, the football is worse, the manager is worse, the squad is worse and under Ole the club is on target for a mid table finish or worse

They entrenched themselves so deeply in blaming it all on Jose they cant backtrack and put the blame elsewhere. Gotta admire the consistency tbf. They could try to change slightly but nope Jose is gone so things are better by default.

bucketybuck

sky88 wrote: »

but the real problem continues to be absolute terrible decisions from the board to not wait until end of the season to appoint new manager.

The real problem and terrible decisions were all made in May/June 2018, at the very point when the board decided that they were not going to fully back their manager.

I fully believe that things were still salvageable then. There was a power struggle ongoing between manager and some players but had the club come out in force by supporting him and allowing him sell or buy whoever he saw fit, I think we would have seen the club stabilise, continue as a top 4 club and eventually improve performances as the culture within the first team changed.

Today? I genuinely think a tipping point has come and gone, the last few transfer windows have been hugely damaging and it is no longer a case of a good manager coming in and turning things around.

Depressing, but all so avoidable.

deaddonkey15

pjohnson wrote: »

They entrenched themselves so deeply in blaming it all on Jose they cant backtrack and put the blame elsewhere. Gotta admire the consistency tbf. They could try to change slightly but nope Jose is gone so things are better by default.

Who are "they"?

clubberlang12

bucketybuck wrote: »

The real problem and terrible decisions were all made in May/June 2018, at the very point when the board decided that they were not going to fully back their manager.

I fully believe that things were still salvageable then. There was a power struggle ongoing between manager and some players but had the club come out in force by supporting him and allowing him sell or buy whoever he saw fit, I think we would have seen the club stabilise, continue as a top 4 club and eventually improve performances as the culture within the first team changed.

Today? I genuinely think a tipping point has come and gone, the last few transfer windows have been hugely damaging and it is no longer a case of a good manager coming in and turning things around.

Depressing, but all so avoidable.

And the irony of it is, that the same players the club decided to back over the manager would have happily jumped ship this summer if they could have.

deaddonkey15

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Who are "they"?

Very odd that it has to be pointed out so many times.

The folks who solely blamed Jose.

It's in his post.

deaddonkey15

Deleted User wrote: »

Very odd that it has to be pointed out so many times.

The folks who solely blamed Jose.

It's in his post.

Ah yes, the nameless "folks" that you and others can't stop alluding to with the "I was right and they were wrong posts".

pjohnson

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Very odd that it has to be pointed out so many times.

The folks who solely blamed Jose.

It's in his post.

Wait for him to deny anyone ever did blame Jose for everything :pac:

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

Wait for him to deny anyone ever did blame Jose for everything :pac:

It already happened last night.

deaddonkey15

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Ah yes, the nameless "folks" that you and others can't stop alluding to with the "I was right and they were wrong posts".

I couldn't care less about such a thought process. Nor am I going to single out posters, the folks who continue to lock on to those notions I don't believe are being genuine at this stage.
The exact same stuff that was used against Jose is being ignored in the very same situation Ole is in now.
So much of the back and forth could be stopped if the day one agendas against Jose the man / manager were put aside and simple acknowledgment was made that Jose wasn't the primary issue and alot of what he said and done is understandable, even with his known faults as a manager.
Ultimately coming to a shared conclusion on the state the club is in and why.
It's obvious to everyone else.

deaddonkey15

Deleted User wrote: »

I couldn't care less about such a thought process. Nor am I going to single out posters, the folks who continue to lock on to those notions I don't believe are being genuine at this stage.
The exact same stuff that was used against Jose is being ignored in the very same situation Ole is in now.
So much of the back and forth could be stopped if the day one agendas against Jose the man / manager were put aside and simple acknowledgment was made that Jose wasn't the primary issue and alot of what he said and done is understandable, even with his known faults as a manager.
Ultimately coming to a shared conclusion on the state the club is in and why.
It's obvious to everyone else.

Could have fooled me.

Some other news: Mason Greenwood and Anthony Martial should both be available for next week's clash against Arsenal.

MEN source.

Your Airbag

Nuts102 wrote: »

I can't get my head around posters who were fuming and slating Jose minutely last season and are defending Ole when the results are worse, the football is worse, the manager is worse, the squad is worse and under Ole the club is on target for a mid table finish or worse

Incorrect, this time last season we had 6 points after the same amount of games played, less goals scored and more goals conceded. We are pretty much the same or slightly better and thats after a clearout.

It's hilarious how Jose is often referenced after defeats like he is somehow vindicated. The rose tinted glasses are well and truly on. You should go back and watch the game away to West Ham last season. The football is worse? you must be joking, like I said less goals scored and more goals conceded at this time last season.

After almost half a billion spend Jose's footballing plan didn't have any shape, like yesterday it looked aimless. What was his plan? Have you forgotten the Sevilla match. West Ham away. Brighton away. We would play boring ineffective football for 75mins and then bring on Fellaini to play hoof ball to him for the last 15mins. That was in his third season and after huge amounts of spending.

Mid table? Jose had us on course for this type of finish, a worse start than Moyes in his last season. Nobodies happy about the current situation and the way things have gone post Fergie and who knows if Ole is up to the job but the situations aren't comparable. Ole is attempting to rebuild and promote more youth. I don expect us to be competitive for a couple of seasons until this has been attempted, who knows if the board will give him time.

Something people conveniently forget is that Jose's fingerprints are still all over this squad. He spent 100m on Matic and Fred, he said on air yesterday Lindelof isn't great in the air. Another one of his purchases.

Jose has no right to be smug on Sky or else where. He did a terrible job, had a terrible attitude and was rightly turfed out

The_Kew_Tour

Nuts102 wrote: »

I can't get my head around posters who were fuming and slating Jose minutely last season and are defending Ole when the results are worse, the football is worse, the manager is worse, the squad is worse and under Ole the club is on target for a mid table finish or worse

And its excuse after excuse.

Football is getting better
Ole getting rid of dead wood
Giving young lads a try
Unity and Bonding will be better

All comple and utter BS