Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2019/2020

The_Kew_Tour

Its such a pity its come to this with Ole. While the buck stops with him, I know he is trying his best, it's a job way out of his league.

He always be a club legend and owe us nothing, but for his own sake and for the clubs I hope he does the right thing. Not expecting him to though.

The Nal

Liam O wrote: »

I don't think Moyes' style was particularly that tbh. With Valencia and Young that was happening no matter who the manager, Fergie's last couple of seasons that happened plenty, just so happened a peak Rooney and then RVP did everything to get on the end of them.

This mess has it's roots in the sacking of Moyes. "Stand by our new manager" lasted a few months and players had won. Obscene amounts of money sent thrown around to replace reliable performers who would have remained if the man who'd seen them train for an entire season remained.

Even if Moyes' 2nd season had not lived up to expectations either, at least a statement would have been made about who the main man was at the club. LVG had to posture with Di Maria, José got radical with Pogba, all made mistakes. With an increasingly spoiled fan base and seemingly hamstrung investment it's not going to change.

Moyes lost the players though. You're finished once that happens.

damowill

Deleted User wrote: »

What's Ole style btw?

Well he has said he wants to play high intensity, high press football with us being on the front foot. However dont have the players. Liverpool and City play high pressing, BUT when they win the ball they have the players to punish you. They are able to create chances off of the high press, or they can win the ball back and keep it. We can none of those things. In theory, Ole's system has its merits but a look at Sundays teamsheet shows you the problems we have. We only look good when we are counter attacking, but is that by hook or by crook?

Either he was naive going into the season with this squad or Woodward didnt give him the funds to get in the necessary quality. Which one is it? Is he complicit in all of this or did he have to make do with just the 3 signings?

pjohnson

The Rooster wrote: »

If you're suggesting Spurs have a larger transfer kitty than MU, that's plain nonsense. And MU pay much higher salaries.

Poch clearly unhappy at Spurs. Said in the summer that he has no say over transfers "so call me coach not manager".

He would jump at the chance, but Levy would force MU to pay them a big compensation packet.

Exactly MU would pay Poch more and he would get a great severance payoff when the time comes. Thats the only thing United have going for them. Jose said exactly the same "call me coach not manager" so Poch isnt going to be getting any improvement to his working situation coming to United. Aside from weekly wage packet of course.

damowill

damowill wrote: »

Well he has said he wants to play high intensity, high press football with us being on the front foot. However dont have the players. Liverpool and City play high pressing, BUT when they win the ball they have the players to punish you. They are able to create chances off of the high press, or they can win the ball back and keep it. We can none of those things. In theory, Ole's system has its merits but a look at Sundays teamsheet shows you the problems we have. We only look good when we are counter attacking, but is that by hook or by crook?

Either he was naive going into the season with this squad or Woodward didnt give him the funds to get in the necessary quality. Which one is it? Is he complicit in all of this or did he have to make do with just the 3 signings?

I've not witnessed that once all season regardless of personnel. In fact not since February.
And no, not even the Chelsea game.
We scored on the break and was pot luck in the first half.

adox

The Nal wrote: »

Moyes lost the players though. You're finished once that happens.

My opinion(as stated many times)is that not sacking Moyes earlier hugely contributed to the decline of post Fergie Utd.

It was as clear as day after a couple of months that the players(the champions from the previous season)had no faith in him. If Utd had shown some balls and held their hands up and said they got it wrong it may have been salvageable.
That squad need upgrading for sure but there was more than enough there for it to be done gradually and it was still at least a top 4 squad as a minimum.

Not sacking Moyes soon enough is where it all stared to spiral out of control.

bucketybuck

Deleted User wrote: »

I've not witnessed that once all season regardless of personnel. In fact not since February.
And no, not even the Chelsea game.
We scored on the break and was pot luck in the first half.

Its the kicker with Ole isn't it.

We all know the context, we all know that he inherited some useless players, we all know that the club is mismanaged right up to board level.

But that doesn't mean he can't be judged within that context and on his own merits after accounting for all those other factors.

And the simple fact is that he is not improving the standard of play on the field, he is not making any players better and he is not making us any better to watch. Don't give me any of that airy fairy United way crap because I know what I am watching and buzzwords cannot gloss over how bad United have been on the field since February.

Whatsisname

Deleted User wrote: »

I've not witnessed that once all season regardless of personnel. In fact not since February.
And no, not even the Chelsea game.
We scored on the break and was pot luck in the first half.

I saw Adam McKola mention that since Ole got the job permanently, it seems he's become fearful of losing it, whereas when he was interim, he had nothing to lose. I don't know if I agree or not, I'm still trying to figure out what happened from that early form to the downturn after the PSG match. I'm hoping someone doesn't say it was because of easy fixtures because we beat Spurs away (luckily I'll admit) Chelsea and Arsenal away.

Was it simply just a new manager bounce? I don't know. But we do look just like we did under Mourinho last season now.

Whatsisname

Whatsisname wrote: »

I saw Adam McKola mention that since Ole got the job permanently, it seems he's become fearful of losing it, whereas when he was interim, he had nothing to lose. I don't know if I agree or not, I'm still trying to figure out what happened from that early form to the downturn after the PSG match. I'm hoping someone doesn't say it was because of easy fixtures because we beat Spurs away (luckily I'll admit) Chelsea and Arsenal away.

Was it simply just a new manager bounce? I don't know. But we do look just like we did under Mourinho last season now.

To be honest there was glaring issues during the PSG games (Home and Away) and the games in between the ties. The sheer joy of the away win masked it.

I distinctly remember the Southampton game at home presenting similar issues that have grown in full as of now.

I think where we are now is a far worse off place in nearly every aspect of tactics, squad depth and leadership under Ole than we were in Joses last season.

Whatsisname

Deleted User wrote: »

To be honest there was glaring issues during the PSG games (Home and Away) and the games in between the ties. The sheer joy of the away win masked it.

I distinctly remember the Southampton game at home presenting similar issues that have grown in full as of now.

I think where we are now is a far worse off place in nearly every aspect of tactics, squad depth and leadership under Ole than we were in Joses last season.

You're right there actually, I've just gone back and looked at our results before PSG away, the Burnley 2-2 at OT in January was a big standout one. I was actually at the Southampton match too so should have remembered that one clearer, we were quite poor in that but Lukaku bailed us out big time.

I wonder how Mourinho would have faired with the signings of AWB and Maguire, will always be a "what if" with Mourinho for me. Tho some will disagree with that.

Father Hernandez

https://twitter.com/SimonPeach/status/1176451965712289792?s=20

https://twitter.com/SimonPeach/status/1176452025946652672?s=20

Pure dribble

This is good

billyhead

Constantly changing managers is not the answer. It's far deep rooted than that. An experienced Dof is badly needed.

DM_7

Father Hernandez wrote: »

https://twitter.com/SimonPeach/status/1176451965712289792?s=20

https://twitter.com/SimonPeach/status/1176452025946652672?s=20

Pure dribble

In the limited time referred to it makes sense and is what has happened in recent times.

The issue is where was the philosophy when they sacked Van Gaal and started over, why did they need to start over when Jose left.

DM_7

adox wrote: »

My opinion(as stated many times)is that not sacking Moyes earlier hugely contributed to the decline of post Fergie Utd.

It was as clear as day after a couple of months that the players(the champions from the previous season)had no faith in him. If Utd had shown some balls and held their hands up and said they got it wrong it may have been salvageable.
That squad need upgrading for sure but there was more than enough there for it to be done gradually and it was still at least a top 4 squad as a minimum.

Not sacking Moyes soon enough is where it all stared to spiral out of control.

If they sacked Moyes earlier and scraped top four they would still have selected someone like LVG and still needed to make the changes he had to make. The club was shellshocked when SAF left, Van Persie is still scarred by it.

The problems at United are cumulative based on changing ideas at a rapid rate and having no plan or strategy at a high level. Moyes in his own right did not contribute to the mistakes as he never got started, never had a chance to move on likes of Rio, who I have huge respect for but was done as soon as SAF left.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

I think some people miss the point too, even if we did have strategy at high level. It doesn't mean we'd automatically win things in the future. The strategy could well be wrong also.

DM_7

Pheonix10 wrote: »

I think some people miss the point too, even if we did have strategy at high level. It doesn't mean we'd automatically win things in the future. The strategy could well be wrong also.

Of course it could be wrong and not lead to great achievement, it shoild be refined as time goes along but guide good choices like fitting players to managers or managers to the squad.

Without one it means pressing reset every time. What is the point of one manager signing Shaw, Memphis, Martial etc to a manager who does not want players of that type? It is a waste of resources and actually starting the new manager off on the back foot to start with. They changed ideas again with Ole.

The Rooster

Whatsisname wrote: »

I wonder how Mourinho would have faired with the signings of AWB and Maguire, will always be a "what if" with Mourinho for me. Tho some will disagree with that.

I'm not a United fan in any shape or form, but I can't understand that there's so many fans on here who pine for Jose.

Regardless of whether you think he's a good manager or not, regardless of whether you enjoyed his style of football or not, his comments and interviews in media were outrageous. He had zero respect for the club and continually put it down. You have a great club. He was not worthy. Not near worthy. And Sir Bobby called that long before he arrived.

Whether Ole is good enough is another story altogether. Personally I don't think so and I was full sure that during the summer he would have got a hand on the shoulder and an envelope in the pocket and there would have been a statement released that it was mutually agreed that he'd head back to Molde and everyone would still be friends and OGS would always be welcome back at OT. And then Poch would be in.

The one (significant) positive for Ole is that probably your 3 best players this season have been his 3 signings. That leaves the element of doubt that, given time, maybe he can turn it round.

The Rooster

The Rooster wrote: »

I'm not a United fan in any shape or form, but I can't understand that there's so many fans on here who pine for Jose.

Regardless of whether you think he's a good manager or not, regardless of whether you enjoyed his style of football or not, his comments and interviews in media were outrageous. He had zero respect for the club and continually put it down. You have a great club. He was not worthy. Not near worthy. And Sir Bobby called that long before he arrived.

Whether Ole is good enough is another story altogether. Personally I don't think so and I was full sure that during the summer he would have got a hand on the shoulder and an envelope in the pocket and there would have been a statement released that it was mutually agreed that he'd head back to Molde and everyone would still be friends and OGS would always be welcome back at OT. And then Poch would be in.

The one (significant) positive for Ole is that probably your 3 best players this season have been his 3 signings. That leaves the element of doubt that, given time, maybe he can turn it round.

Zero respect for the club or zero respect for the owners?
Who is worthy?

Rayne Wooney

At the end of the day, if a player is good enough a manager will want them at the club. Martial, Depay and Schneiderlin weren’t wanted because they are poor quality not because of a new style or whatever nonsense.

It comes down to the club identifying players at the correct level, a manager can be involved in those transfer discussions but it’s ultimately the club left with a shít player if the wrong decision is made and the manager is sacked within 3 years.

damowill

DM_7 wrote: »

Of course it could be wrong and not lead to great achievement, it shoild be refined as time goes along but guide good choices like fitting players to managers or managers to the squad.

Without one it means pressing reset every time. What is the point of one manager signing Shaw, Memphis, Martial etc to a manager who does not want players of that type? It is a waste of resources and actually starting the new manager off on the back foot to start with. They changed ideas again with Ole.

Exactly. United have been STOP-START ever since Fergie left.

Woodward has failed us miserably and we go from pilar to post with no rhyme or reason. We may have spent 900m but it doesnt matter a jot. LVG got rid of Fergies players. Jose got rid of LVGs players, Ole gets rid of Jose players. Each manager had a different style. Allegri was mentioned again in the last few days!! Seriously lads??

Prior to Klopp, Brendan Rodgers was the manager who played a similar brand of football so there was little change in philosophy and style of play. Likewise Pep inherited from Pellegrini where transition was easier, although in Peps case, he soon realised a lot of those guys were **** and identified the players and positions he needed with the help of a lot of ££££

S.M.B.

The transition at Man City was made even easier with the fact that Txiki was there as DoF 4 years prior laying down the ground work.

xtal191

https://twitter.com/TelegraphDucker/status/1176472089081077762

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/1176467878519984128

BenK

Deleted User wrote: »

This is good

Things are obviously dismal but I enjoyed Roy bringing Carragher down a peg or two. He didn't know how to respond.

Rayne Wooney

DOF dead and buried there from the horses mouth

Cantona's Collars

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

DOF dead and buried there from the horses mouth

Woodward loves the power too much. He's never going to relinquish that.

Kerrydude1981

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

DOF dead and buried there from the horses mouth

If Ed Woodward thinks that everything is nice and rosy, then Utd are in for a long spell without winning the title.

Cantona's Collars

Regards to on field stuff,Ole promised a more pressing style but it's now actually gone back to what we saw under the last days of José at the club,one or two would half press while everyone else drops deep and when we do win the ball we have to witness Matic etc play 5 or 6 passes between them while the opposing team have time to get into a defensive shape that we haven't the nouse to break down.
The idea of a press and fast paced football has gone out the window.

BenK

I'm finding it hard to get too hopeful or invested about United's prospects for the short and medium term at the moment as until the ownership & CEO changes it's difficult to see a realistic way forward.

It's difficult to see that changing in the immediate future too so it's all quite depressing really. The ineptness comes from the top down and has led the club to a situation where the playing and management side of things, as well as the ownership side, is miles away from being good enough. It's the blind leading the blind leading the blind.

Father Hernandez

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/1176467878519984128?s=20

This is absolutely incredible

"We believe our way of working is the right one"

£900 million spent, 4 managers and we're worse off than 6 years ago. How the owners can stand over this is utter criminal.

If anyone of us did it in our job, we'd be sacked

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/1176453780172357632

£19.6 million payout to Jose and his staff who were sacked.

Cantona's Collars

Father Hernandez wrote: »

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/1176467878519984128?s=20

This is absolutely incredible

"We believe our way of working is the right one"

£900 million spent, 4 managers and we're worse off than 6 years ago. How the owners can stand over this is utter criminal.

If anyone of us did it in our job, we'd be sacked

He should be a consultant for the running of the HSE. Only they could compete for incompetent financial practices and wasting money.

limnam

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Regards to on field stuff,Ole promised a more pressing style but it's now actually gone back to what we saw under the last days of José at the club

there was 11 men behind the ball against west ham.


11....

paulbok

Deleted User wrote: »

Watching him yesterday I actually think he still looked quite gutted over the whole situation.

I always believed it's the job he wanted the most in his entire career.

Nothing he said yesterday was disrespectful IMO. But again I'm being trying to find out what the story is with the non disclosure agreement in place since his contract was terminated.

LVG had his say in July this year when I think it expired.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jun/03/louis-van-gaal-manchester-united--interview-buy-players-rooney-tactics-solskjaer

It's probably when the contract he was on when sacked would have expired as he'd have been/ is being paid on that.

Cantona's Collars

limnam wrote: »

there was 11 men behind the ball against west ham.


11....

Previous management were crucified for playing 2 defensive midfielders. Ole did the same on Sunday.

The Rooster

Deleted User wrote: »

Zero respect for the club or zero respect for the owners?
Who is worthy?

The club.

This is just one example (after defeat to Sevilla in CL), but there are more.


That’s not the end of the world. I sit in this chair twice in the Champions League and I knock out Man United at home at Old Trafford. I sit in this chair with Porto, Man United out. I sit in the chair with Real Madrid, Man United out. So, I don’t think it is something new for the club and of course being Manchester United manager and losing a Champions League tie at home is a disappointment


Only my opinion. It's not my club, but if a manager said that about my club while still managing my club it would sicken me. No respect for anyone but himself. You're well rid imo and should not pine for him for a single second, regardless of what happens with Ole.

bucketybuck

Hate Mourinho all you want, but if the club had went all in on him they would be a lot better off right now.

Give him what he wanted last summer and get rid of the players who he wanted gone and we would be in the CL this season and probably starting to look better year on year.

Stick with him and people would probably be here today complaining about the football, but we would be far removed from the mess the club is currently mired in.

Remember when 2nd and trophies was good progression from the preceding years? You should do.

pjohnson

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/1176453780172357632

£19.6 million payout to Jose and his staff who were sacked.

And Woodward has no interest in getting back to CL.


The Glazers as business people seem as bad as Woodward. Even Mike Ashley spends just enough for his requirement (PL survival) no more no less. Profits are declining. We'll be doing well to get Europa next year and they dont seem bothered at all.

Cookiemunster

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Previous management were crucified for playing 2 defensive midfielders. Ole did the same on Sunday.

Not trying to defend him, but didn't Ole basically play the only available midfielders on Sunday? The options ahead of the defense are non existent this season after being merely piss poor last season.

Backstreet Moyes

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Not trying to defend him, but didn't Ole basically play the only available midfielders on Sunday? The options ahead of the defense are non existent this season after being merely piss poor last season.

Fred could have started who would have offered more energy and quality going forward

Backstreet Moyes

I honestly think Mourinho played such defensive football as the quality of the players is so low the same as Lvg alluded too

He broke the league record for goals with Madrid and Chelsea played lovely football when he first arrived

He got his teams to overachieve when underdogs by parking the bus think of Inter in the champions league

He overachieved with horrible football to get 2nd and win the Europa league

He tried to play more positive football the same as Ole and you can see the outcome of that for both managers

brinty

Cookiemunster wrote:

Not trying to defend him, but didn't Ole basically play the only available midfielders on Sunday? The options ahead of the defense are non existent this season after being merely piss poor last season.

And who's fault is it that he has so few options. Sold Fellaini, didn't try to get hererra to stay around, barely used Fred since he came in, promoted Garner who he's given no game time too, didn't try and bring in any midfield reinforcements over the summer

We needed at least two Central midfielders brought in during the summer to replace fellaini and herrera and nothing was done.

I don't know if Ole sat on his hands believing he was ok (and if so it was idiotic) or if Woodward stalled on deals again. Either way we've reaped what we sowed and left ourselves thread bare with

Pogba - who's not doing it
Matic - who's passed it
Andreas - not up to the standard
Garner - not given any time
Fred - not trusted

That leaves us with Scott mctominay, who's barely mid table standard as our only constant in midfield.

Ole wants to play a high pressing game without the requisite players of any standard. It's his own fault he doesn't.

damowill

brinty wrote: »

And who's fault is it that he has so few options. Sold Fellaini, didn't try to get hererra to stay around, barely used Fred since he came in, promoted Garner who he's given no game time too, didn't try and bring in any midfield reinforcements over the summer

We needed at least two Central midfielders brought in during the summer to replace fellaini and herrera and nothing was done.

I don't know if Ole sat on his hands believing he was ok (and if so it was idiotic) or if Woodward stalled on deals again. Either way we've reaped what we sowed and left ourselves thread bare with

Pogba - who's not doing it
Matic - who's passed it
Andreas - not up to the standard
Garner - not given any time
Fred - not trusted

That leaves us with Scott mctominay, who's barely mid table standard as our only constant in midfield.

Ole wants to play a high pressing game without the requisite players of any standard. It's his own fault he doesn't.

I listened to Mark Ogden (journalist with good contacts) that said again United only had £100m to spend. He said this at the start of the summer and people slated him but we only spent 70m net.

if this is true, then i have no idea why we bought AWB for £50m when, in a rebuild year, we have Diogo Dalot, and Brandon Williams & Ethan Laird highly regarded youth players. Wouldnt that £50 be better spent on a an attacking player or midfielder.

MeMen2_MoRi_

Father Hernandez wrote: »

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/1176467878519984128?s=20

This is absolutely incredible

"We believe our way of working is the right one"

£900 million spent, 4 managers and we're worse off than 6 years ago. How the owners can stand over this is utter criminal.

If anyone of us did it in our job, we'd be sacked

Billions raked in versus hundreds of millions spent (transfer fees) the maths add up. Gold star for Ed.

beno619

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/1176453780172357632

£19.6 million payout to Jose and his staff who were sacked.

That shortfall impacted the transfer budget.

Kerrydude1981

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

If Ed Woodward thinks that everything is nice and rosy, then Utd are in for a long spell without winning the title.

I've been saying this quite some time but it really is nice and rosy.
With financial reports like that of today Woodward is doing a stellar job against his targets set for the year by the Glazers and associated investors.

Those targets are financial and not football. He won't be going anywhere.
There is no impact from the failures on the pitch. It's not in any way effecting the overall incoming profits.

65 million is **** all when predicted revenue is still over half a billion.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Still flabbergasted someone hasn't organised a sustained protest. Fk supporting the manager if it means long term success. Ole would understand that more than anyone.

sky88

sadly i think the only way things change is if we keep dropping down the league for more seasons and sponsors start going as its damaging the brand and theres less money coming in

Bob the Seducer

It might have been mentioned already but an article on the Guardian's website today has United's annual wage bill at £332.3m. That works out at an average in excess of £250,000 a week per player over a 25 man squad.

Something has gone seriously wrong with our contract negotiations in recent times if average pay has reached that level for the current squad... (even factoring in Sanchez's Chinese Super League wages)

Cookiemunster

Bob the Seducer wrote: »

It might have been mentioned already but an article on the Guardian's website today has United's annual wage bill at £332.3m. That works out at an average in excess of £250,000 a week per player over a 25 man squad.

Something has gone seriously wrong with our contract negotiations in recent times if average pay has reached that level for the current squad... (even factoring in Sanchez's Chinese Super League wages)

Does that just cover playing staff or everyone who works for the club? I assume there's a breakdown somewhere in the figures?