Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2019/2020

BDI

Hi lads (and ladies) I’ve been reading this thread but never felt the need to get access to the football before.
I’m a long time united fan.

There seems to be a lot of panic and fans ready to turn on players and managers over the years getting worse since sir Alex left.
I was watching at the weekend wishing we had Evra instead of Ashley Young on at left back.
Keane instead of the two dms and anybody with a bit of experience and guile up front that could win the game by the 60th minute before bringing Rashford on.

We don’t. Sacking Ole won’t change that.
The fella who didn’t give up in 99 when all was lost has all the fans giving up on him as soon as it gets tough.

Ole was given the job because the squad needs to be gutted and rebuilt and he is going to get more space from the supporters than somebody like Moyes. Lampard got the job at Chelsea because they had a transfer ban and needed a fan favourite to keep the fans inside.

I think Luke Shaw getting injured has hurt the team defensively. I think Lindelof has no business in the team he can’t handle a long ball landing on him under pressure.
You can’t blame Ole for that.

I think maybe like all man utd managers post Ferguson he has to resort to playing two dms because the defense is shakey now.
These two dms arnt up to scratch and gave far too much space leading to the first goal against on Sunday. It’s questionable whether Ole can be blamed here but I doubt he told the lads to go out and be lethargic.

His options to change things upfront were as far as I remember Mata Lingard and Fred. Think of that. When was the last time a United manager looked to the bench and his only hope was three players of this quality.

This again is not oles fault.

Rashford has a few chances a proven finisher would have scored. Rvp probably would have had a hatrick by the time they conceded.

When was the last time United best striker was 21 years old and second best was even younger by a few years.
Woodward seems to be throwing Ole under the bus now saying Ole could have had a striker. I reckon he was offfered somebody not up to scratch or past it and decided that instead of loading up another stupid big money deal for a fella he will be stuck with he chose to wait another window.
I think this will be the right decision for the club and may not be the right decision for Oles self preservation.

I’m happy with Ole at the club another year provided relegation doesn’t look too close.

I think with Shaw back the points will start to clock up abit more but I think a year is needed to build the squad.
The owners and Woodward will try use Ole as a buffer to themselves but sacking the manager and buying players who seem to want to do social media isn’t working.

Shaw back, mctominay a few months more experienced and able to fill midfield defensively then two attacking midfielders and things will change enough to limp in around the top 4-7. I’ll give Ole the benefit of the doubt for a year because he gave more to the club than most. Happily sat on the bench always ready to get in and do whatever was needed to change a game.

Trigger

Bob the Seducer wrote: »

It might have been mentioned already but an article on the Guardian's website today has United's annual wage bill at £332.3m. That works out at an average in excess of £250,000 a week per player over a 25 man squad.

Something has gone seriously wrong with our contract negotiations in recent times if average pay has reached that level for the current squad... (even factoring in Sanchez's Chinese Super League wages)

Annual Wage bill in the financials covers everyone from CEO to the bar staff in OT to the admin workers. That's hundreds of workers so its pretty hard to determine exactly how much is just for playing staff until the breakdowns are released.

Bob the Seducer

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Does that just cover playing staff or everyone who works for the club? I assume there's a breakdown somewhere in the figures?

They didn't break it down within the article, only quantified it as 53% of turnover. I suppose it's likely to include staff, but even factoring that in the number still seems excessively high.

yabadabado

Bob the Seducer wrote: »

They didn't break it down within the article, only quantified it as 53% of turnover. I suppose it's likely to include staff, but even factoring that in the number still seems excessively high.

No doubt about it there are plenty of players way overpaid at United but that figure most likely includes everyone employed by the club.
There are about 1000 employees altogether.

Zeek12

BDI wrote: »

I think Luke Shaw getting injured has hurt the team defensively. I think Lindelof has no business in the team he can’t handle a long ball landing on him under pressure.
You can’t blame Ole for that.

To be honest, I think you're exaggerating Shaw's importance a bit.

I'm thinking of some of the defensively inept moments and goals conceded in recent weeks (during his injury) and I don't see Shaw doing a whole lot to prevent these.

Like the first goal on Sunday....Matic and Perreira ambling on the edge of our box with no pressure or intent to close the man.

De Gea's blunder for the van Aanholt winner vs Palace.
Or Lindelof beaten so easily to the header to create Palace's first....and no covering from either Maguire or AWB.

While we've had some defensive lapses alright, our biggest problem right now is the lack of creativity further up the pitch and no ruthless finisher that can comfortably hit 20 goals a season.

billyhead

Same speil from Woodward today. Hes a great man for spin. He would be ideal working for the HSE

BDI

Zeek12 wrote: »

To be honest, I think you're exaggerating Shaw's importance a bit.

I'm thinking of some of the defensively inept moments and goals conceded in recent weeks (during his injury) and I don't see Shaw doing a whole lot to prevent these.

Like the first goal on Sunday....Matic and Perreira ambling on the edge of our box with no pressure or intent to close the man.

De Gea's blunder for the van Aanholt winner vs Palace.
Or Lindelof beaten so easily to the header to create Palace's first....and no covering from either Maguire or AWB.

While we've had some defensive lapses alright, our biggest problem right now is the lack of creativity further up the pitch and no ruthless finisher that can comfortably hit 20 goals a season.

He offers a lot more going forward than Young. I did mention in the post that goal was caused by the midfielders farting about and not closing down.
I also mentioned the striker situation. I don’t really see why you just took a part of my post, quoted it, and told me what I said in the rest of my post.
We also wouldn’t need two dms with Shaw in there instead of young.

Zeek12

BDI wrote: »

He offers a lot more going forward than Young. I did mention in the post that goal was caused by the midfielders farting about and not closing down.
I also mentioned the striker situation. I don’t really see why you just took a part of my post, quoted it, and told me what I said in the rest of my post.

Not disagreeing with all your points.

But you've referenced the Shaw situation twice. And I really don't see it being all that crucial.
Ashley Young has done Ok in recent weeks. Maybe not stellar, but hardly shocking either.

I'd reiterate we have far bigger problems than LB.

BDI

Zeek12 wrote: »

Not disagreeing with all your points.

But you've referenced the Shaw situation twice. And I really don't see it being all that crucial.
Ashley Young has done Ok in recent weeks. Maybe not stellar, but hardly shocking either.

I'd reiterate we have far bigger problems than LB.

Would sacking Ole and replacing him with whoever is available fix these problems for more than a month or two?

Whatsisname

I genuinely think Ashley Young offers more going forward than Shaw. Hell, even Rojo did against Astana. Shaw seems incapable of crossing it, him going forward is the odd overlap where he’ll never hit his man and him bursting forward just to pass it back.

BDI

I think he opens a lot of space up for other players when he goes forward. Looks to speed up the passing. May jog back now and again however but again we have what we have.
Bisaka spent abit of time over youngs side covering for him Sunday if I remember right.

Why since Moyes does every player have to take a touch then swagger then pass a pointless pass 75 per cent of the time. I’m starting to think it’s some sort of marketing strategy.

Zeek12

BDI wrote: »

Would sacking Ole and replacing him with whoever is available fix these problems for more than a month or two?

I've never said it would. Nor have I called for Ole to be sacked.

I just think your optimism around Shaw is fairly rose-tinted.
And I genuinely don't see his return as being a catalyst to kickstart our season.

pjohnson

BDI wrote: »

Bisaka spent abit of time over youngs side covering for him Sunday if I remember right.

AWB wasnt covering for Young per se Young had just gone to the right to take a corner so AWB moved from central out leftwards when West Ham tried to break away. I'm also pretty sure there was a free kick that side aswell as the next break in play so again Young was wide right to take it and AWB stayed left side. They went back to normal as soon as the ball went out for a throw in.

BDI

Zeek12 wrote: »

I've never said it would. Nor have I called for Ole to be sacked.

I just think your optimism around Shaw is fairly rose-tinted.
And I genuinely don't see his return as being a catalyst to kickstart our season.

I don’t think it’ll kickstart our season either. It’ll just have us up nearly two points a game for the season landing us around 4-7 or so.

Sand

BDI wrote: »

Rashford has a few chances a proven finisher would have scored. Rvp probably would have had a hatrick by the time they conceded

I'm not jumping in to be critical, but if I recall correctly Rashford had 0 shots (total, not 0 on target) in 60 minutes against West Ham. Even RVP couldn't score a goal if he doesn't get opportunities to get a shot away.

I agree with the overall tone of the post - this is going to be a long, hard season. Even if the Glazers and Woodward are replaced by ideal ownership, United still need 15-20 quality signings over the next 3-4 seasons to immediately improve results and to account for natural turnover in the squad. If we consider the club has spent 54 million on Fred (cant get a game), 30 million on Sanchez (awful performances, deservedly gone), 40 million on Matic (completely past it), 77 million on Lukaku ( mixed performances, now gone), 38 million on Mkhitaryan (mixed performances, now gone) and 35 million on Bailly (mixed performances, cant stay fit) in just the past three seasons its going to need a lot more signings and a lot more time to reverse the decline. 275 million spent on 6 players with no real benefit to the team. Might as well have handed it out to the fans in the stands. Will the same structures that delivered this suddenly deliver 15-20 top signings in just 3-4 seasons? Probably not.

So its bad, and its going to get worse before it gets better.

monkeysnapper

BDI wrote: »

Hi lads (and ladies) I’ve been reading this thread but never felt the need to get access to the football before.
I’m a long time united fan.

There seems to be a lot of panic and fans ready to turn on players and managers over the years getting worse since sir Alex left.
I was watching at the weekend wishing we had Evra instead of Ashley Young on at left back.
Keane instead of the two dms and anybody with a bit of experience and guile up front that could win the game by the 60th minute before bringing Rashford on.

We don’t. Sacking Ole won’t change that.
The fella who didn’t give up in 99 when all was lost has all the fans giving up on him as soon as it gets tough.

Ole was given the job because the squad needs to be gutted and rebuilt and he is going to get more space from the supporters than somebody like Moyes. Lampard got the job at Chelsea because they had a transfer ban and needed a fan favourite to keep the fans inside.

I think Luke Shaw getting injured has hurt the team defensively. I think Lindelof has no business in the team he can’t handle a long ball landing on him under pressure.
You can’t blame Ole for that.

I think maybe like all man utd managers post Ferguson he has to resort to playing two dms because the defense is shakey now.
These two dms arnt up to scratch and gave far too much space leading to the first goal against on Sunday. It’s questionable whether Ole can be blamed here but I doubt he told the lads to go out and be lethargic.

His options to change things upfront were as far as I remember Mata Lingard and Fred. Think of that. When was the last time a United manager looked to the bench and his only hope was three players of this quality.

This again is not oles fault.

Rashford has a few chances a proven finisher would have scored. Rvp probably would have had a hatrick by the time they conceded.

When was the last time United best striker was 21 years old and second best was even younger by a few years.
Woodward seems to be throwing Ole under the bus now saying Ole could have had a striker. I reckon he was offfered somebody not up to scratch or past it and decided that instead of loading up another stupid big money deal for a fella he will be stuck with he chose to wait another window.
I think this will be the right decision for the club and may not be the right decision for Oles self preservation.

I’m happy with Ole at the club another year provided relegation doesn’t look too close.

I think with Shaw back the points will start to clock up abit more but I think a year is needed to build the squad.
The owners and Woodward will try use Ole as a buffer to themselves but sacking the manager and buying players who seem to want to do social media isn’t working.

Shaw back, mctominay a few months more experienced and able to fill midfield defensively then two attacking midfielders and things will change enough to limp in around the top 4-7. I’ll give Ole the benefit of the doubt for a year because he gave more to the club than most. Happily sat on the bench always ready to get in and do whatever was needed to change a game.

I totally agree with you ...I said something similar a few pages ago ,,, didnt go into as much detail but it's time to stand by Ole and go with a plan ...

It's been said by a few and it's right, it's going to take a few transfer windows ...

Hococop

I wonder is poch out the door?

S.M.B.

While Woodwards quotes about the DoF pissed me off today I do think that there are quotes going around missing a little bit of context that make it seem so much worse. Sounds like Woodward said recruitment worked well this summer so they've no immediate plans to change it. Now I know that's still worrying to hear but I do think "things went well this summer" is a little easier to take than "things have been going well for years" which sounds like the delusional ramblings of a mad man.

Hococop

Hococop wrote: »

I wonder is poch out the door?

Colchester!

Lord TSC

Hococop wrote: »

I wonder is poch out the door?

Hopefully.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/DuncanCastles/status/1176627577940783105

Headshot

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

https://twitter.com/DuncanCastles/status/1176627577940783105

You'd have to bonkers to even consider buying into utd and having no say at all

Liam O

Hococop wrote: »

I wonder is poch out the door?

Whatever about how Ole is doing to be playing like Spurs are with the players they have is criminal. Good keeper, great CBs, world class attacking midfielders and striker with a good supporting cast. Kane and Dele Alligone backwards the last season under his tutelage and the amount of nonsense he talks in interview is worse than Jose without the previous success to back it up.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Colchester!

Do you know what, I could be saying "Rochdale!" Later.

Cantona's Collars

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

https://twitter.com/DuncanCastles/status/1176627577940783105

That is beyond grim.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That is beyond grim.

Is them selling some of their shares not a good thing?

Trigger

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Is them selling some of their shares not a good thing?

Not really, they are selling with restricted voting rights.. basically making money off the club but keeping full control..

https://twitter.com/TelegraphDucker/status/1176472089081077762?s=19

Cantona's Collars

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://twitter.com/TelegraphDucker/status/1176472089081077762?s=19

Saw that last night.
Muricans.

RobbingBandit

Does anyone think Pochettino would do any better with this squad?

Fergie would struggle with these lads, this is a similar situation to his first few years in charge where Martin Edwards wouldn't spend and a team of mediocrity had to be dismantled and rebuilt entirely anew with shrewd buying and relying on players not capable of winning championships or trophies.

pjohnson

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Does anyone think Pochettino would do any better with this squad?

Fergie would struggle with these lads, this is a similar situation to his first few years in charge where Martin Edwards wouldn't spend and a team of mediocrity had to be dismantled and rebuilt entirely anew with shrewd buying and relying on players not capable of winning championships or trophies.

Forget Poch not even Pep or Klopp could without major investment.

raze_them_all_

If lingard wasn't an academy player he'd be in a lower 8 team or the championship and rashford would still be a sub. The club has fallen so far its morbidly interesting to see. Horrific as a supporter but interesting

RobbingBandit

Really hope some kind of grassroots movement does start up again against the board regardless of the club making a profit the standards and lack of achieving champions league qualifications are hurting the clubs potential to attract top tier players.

If the plan is to continue the current status and throw £150m at players in the transfer market but while also selling disgruntled players for way less than their real value then we are stuck in a vacuum where the owners use the club as a business to turn a profit rather than a football team to win trophies.

Mitch Connor

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Does anyone think Pochettino would do any better with this squad?

Fergie would struggle with these lads, this is a similar situation to his first few years in charge where Martin Edwards wouldn't spend and a team of mediocrity had to be dismantled and rebuilt entirely anew with shrewd buying and relying on players not capable of winning championships or trophies.

I don't think he would BUT....

I think if this season is remains utter crap, it will be easier to sell United as a place to play with Pochetino as manager next summer than if Ole is still manager.

Woodward moves Ole/Phelan to Director of Football type roles, appoints sacked Pochetino - saves 40million; all he had to do was tank a(nother) season. GENIUS.

loyatemu

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Really hope some kind of grassroots movement does start up again against the board

that already happened: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.C._United_of_Manchester

Kerrydude1981

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

If lingard wasn't an academy player he'd be in a lower 8 team or the championship and rashford would still be a sub. The club has fallen so far its morbidly interesting to see. Horrific as a supporter but interesting

Just seems to me that the club are falling like other top teams have done,

Liverpool fell from grace,after dominating the 80s they only won the odd cup here and there in the 90s and are now on the way back to the top of the game once again,

AC Milan as well are another example, big club that havent won a title in years

Ok Utd won the two Cup competitions two seasons ago but in terms of the league the gap is growing and the strength in depth is just not there in the squad at the moment to challenge for the title

The only one bright thing that has happened this season is that the new signings have been solid buys so far.

RobbingBandit

If Pochetino gets sacked over the course of the next few months I can't see him wanting to sign on board with us, he might attract a different calibre of player to the team but there's no way in hell he'd come here, Real would be a more likely destination for him.

Hococop

If lingard is due an extension I'm ok as long as we make it a statement type, offer him 50k a week and highlight his poor form and he won't accept it they don't offer him one, no way he would get a better deal with another club with his form

BDI

Hococop wrote: »

If lingard is due an extension I'm ok as long as we make it a statement type, offer him 50k a week and highlight his poor form and he won't accept it they don't offer him one, no way he would get a better deal with another club with his form

The sad thing is the sponsors probably love him. I honestly think they are being told to not do anything on the pitch that can be used to make them look silly and keep the Instagram money rolling in. Everything else will work itself out.

It’s a sad state of affairs but the board probably value lingard pogba and Rashford higher than any player in the world.

Harry Maguire may have not got signed a year earlier because he didn’t have enough following on social media yet.

I’m being abit facetious but I honestly think there is an element to this at the club.

Lord TSC

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Does anyone think Pochettino would do any better with this squad?

Fergie would struggle with these lads, this is a similar situation to his first few years in charge where Martin Edwards wouldn't spend and a team of mediocrity had to be dismantled and rebuilt entirely anew with shrewd buying and relying on players not capable of winning championships or trophies.

I think he would.

As poor as the squad is, I think Ole is also doing a poor job with them as well. On a spectrum, I think Poch would have been able to drag better results out of them in games where Ole seemed lost.

I don't think Poch would have us winning trophies but I also don't believe he'd have us struggling in matches we've struggled in this season.

And I'd be way more confident in Poch being able to attract decent signings too.

BDI

Lord TSC wrote: »

I think he would.

As poor as the squad is, I think Ole is also doing a poor job with them as well. On a spectrum, I think Poch would have been able to drag better results out of them in games where Ole seemed lost.

I don't think Poch would have us winning trophies but I also don't believe he'd have us struggling in matches we've struggled in this season.

And I'd be way more confident in Poch being able to attract decent signings too.

Harry Maguire and wan bisaka have been decent signings.
What do you suggest poch would do with the team that Ole can’t. Play more younger players perhaps?

The Nal

BDI wrote: »

Harry Maguire and wan bisaka have been decent signings.

They've been alright. Maguire is slightly better than what was already there but hes slow and his distribution is average.

BDI wrote: »

What do you suggest poch would do with the team that Ole can’t. Play more younger players perhaps?

Braver football, more risks. Not this left-to-right across the box for 90 mins.

Mitch Connor

The Nal wrote: »

They've been alright. Maguire is slightly better than what was already there but hes slow and his distribution is average.



Braver football, more risks. Not this left-to-right across the box for 90 mins.

with who?
We don't have creative players other than Pogba. Everyone else is average creativily and/or a runner looking to be on the end of a creative pass.

The squad is terribly built from an offensive perspective.

The Nal

Mitch Connor wrote: »

with who?

That was the sort of footie Ole was playing until he started losing.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

We don't have creative players other than Pogba. Everyone else is average creativily and/or a runner looking to be on the end of a creative pass.

The squad is terribly built from an offensive perspective.

Agree with that but Martial is great on his day for example, just too inconsistent.

DM_7

Mitch Connor wrote: »

with who?
We don't have creative players other than Pogba. Everyone else is average creativily and/or a runner looking to be on the end of a creative pass.

The squad is terribly built from an offensive perspective.

That last point is an over time issue and sadly needs time to be fixed.

I agree re Pogba I thought when he was bought they should be signing a player like him in ways to alleviate pressure on him and take over when he is out. United don't have enough players who can slot into the team and replicate the role of the player out of the team.

v3ttel

The Nal wrote: »

They've been alright. Maguire is slightly better than what was already there but hes slow and his distribution is average.

Maguire is slightly better than Jones, Smalling, Rojo, Bailly, Lindelof? Lindelof is the best of the lot we had before Maguire, and he's in extremely poor form. Maguire has already shown that he is head and shoulders above the others. Also, a very bizarre comment about this distribution as it's one of the strongest points of his game.

The three new signings that have come in have been the only 3 to perform well so far. It's a shame they've come into a paper thin squad that's lacking quality & leadership on the field.

bucketybuck

v3ttel wrote: »

The three new signings that have come in have been the only 3 to perform well so far.

Thats always been the pattern though. Players come in, start well and then deteriorate. A small few were crap right from the start but most of them follow that pattern, good start followed by regression. Matic, Bailly, Shaw, Martial, Darmian, there are lots of examples.

I have talked about this many times, there is something about the culture within the club that drags people down and until it is dealt with the same pattern is going to continue. I think good players come to the club expecting high standards and are rather shocked to find out how bad it is behind the scenes. Some fight against that and don't settle, others embrace it and enjoy the big money easy street they have landed upon.

Have James, Maguire and Bissaka had good starts? Sure, they have done ok. The real question is if it continues and to that I have my doubts. Hopefully we won't be sitting here in 6 months talking about how young lad James has struggled to make an impact and how Maguire has been making mistakes.

Mitch Connor

Gomes not in the squad tonight. Looking like he'll be saying goodbye in the summer

Cookiemunster

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Gomes not in the squad tonight. Looking like he'll be saying goodbye in the summer

Starts last weeks EL game, comes off the bench in the next PL game. But not involved in the League Cup so you instantly take that to mean he's out the door? That's a bit of a stretch.

clubberlang12

The Nal wrote: »

That was the sort of footie Ole was playing until he started losing.



Agree with that but Martial is great on his day for example, just too inconsistent.

And this is who we have leading our front line. It's symptomatic of some of the issues with the squad. 4 years on we are still talking about his potential. And not just him.....Shaw, Rashford, Lingard, McT......even Pogba to an extent.
It's why i believe Ole's romantic idea of putting his faith in youth is horribly misguided. These players have no peers to look up to in this squad. Where are the leaders in the dressing room? Who is there to clip the ear if one of the younger players gets too cocky. The naivety to think he could replicate the Class 0f '92 is verging on criminal, and shows, to me, that Ole's next to none experience at this level is flooding through.
I like the guy, and won't ever despise him, but I really can't see how anyone thinks he is up to the task.