Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2019/2020

bmcc10

Can't believe people think it was a mistake letting Lukaku go, He stunk up the place for 2 yrs and been critical of Ole that's one decision he got right. If he was still here we'd be complaining about his touch his hold up play and him in general been useless

Hopefully Martial is back soon at least we looked somewhat threatening with him up front.

Lord TSC

Nuts102 wrote: »

Well everything he said is true

I would like us to go for Howe, Rodgers, Leipzig or Norwich manager

I'm massively curious as to what level of manager we will go for, and will be happy to take the job.

My personal favorite would be Poch; I think there's an element of "Klopp at Dortmund" about him, and how his team peaked and caved. I think he took Spurs to a CL final with far less resources than we'd give him.

I couldn't see an Allgeri.

Would the board want to take a risk on a manager like Howe or a European equivilent. A Nagelsmann type manager. Not a "big name" like Jose or LVG, but also not an inexperienced club legend. A young manager looking to prove himself and take a step up.

I'm not sure about a Rodgers style manager, but would they have interest in someone like Benetiz?

Your Airbag

Nuts102 wrote: »

So it's good he is selling players but because of that you lower expectations

He may have improved the defence but badly weakened the midfield and strikers also and our only plan b option in Fellaini

The squad is much worse now then it was last year

Its good that he's getting rid of average to poor players. As Utd haven't been competitive for years its harder to recruit players, something he will have to deal with. That overall situation isn't good but here we are.

So my expectations are realistic. To get back to the highest level will take years not months and one transfer window. If over the next couple of windows Ole can improve the MF and forward line as much as he has done with defense and we are still under preforming then i will be happy to see him replaced. I'm prepared to give him as much time to do this as I have the previous managers.

Lord TSC

bmcc10 wrote: »

Can't believe people think it was a mistake letting Lukaku go, He stunk up the place for 2 yrs and been critical of Ole that's one decision he got right. If he was still here we'd be complaining about his touch his hold up play and him in general been useless

Hopefully Martial is back soon at least we looked somewhat threatening with him up front.

For all he "stunk up the place", he still had a decent scoring rate.

It's also funny to me that Pogba and Rashford get excused, and blame laid on Jose for their impotence, yet Lukaku doesn't get the same leeway. Same happened with Fellaini. Seems that how much of a factor Jose was depends on whether you liked the player or not.

Regardless though, 95% of the issue wasn't getting rid of Lukaku. It wasn't replacing him. Had we jetisoned Lukaku cause he didn't fit the style of play, and brought in a proper striker to replace him, then I don't think many would care about Lukaku staying or not.

Weepsie

bmcc10 wrote: »

Can't believe people think it was a mistake letting Lukaku go, He stunk up the place for 2 yrs and been critical of Ole that's one decision he got right. If he was still here we'd be complaining about his touch his hold up play and him in general been useless

Hopefully Martial is back soon at least we looked somewhat threatening with him up front.

27 goals in his first season tells a different story.

He's not a hold up player. Any moron who's ever watched him could tell you that. He thrives on through balls and running off the shoulder of defenders.

Had we a quicker use of the ball and done it that way, i can imagine Pogba threading it through, while using wingers to run and create space, we probably would've seen a different beast scoring goals for fun.

But no, instead he was used as a firninho/drogba hybrid without thinking about how it would work.

He only seemed to give out when Ole basically told him Rashford was no. 1 despite all evidence pointing to his finishing not being particularly good

MeMen2_MoRi_

How much of a fall does the books take with 2 years out of CL with regards the Adidas money?

Jurgen The German

Jurgen The German wrote: »

And they are now in what, 10th?

That's just gravy, Oles at the wheel!

Abj anyone but jose

bmcc10

Lord TSC wrote: »

For all he "stunk up the place", he still had a decent scoring rate.

It's also funny to me that Pogba and Rashford get excused, and blame laid on Jose for their impotence, yet Lukaku doesn't get the same leeway. Same happened with Fellaini. Seems that how much of a factor Jose was depends on whether you liked the player or not.

Regardless though, 95% of the issue wasn't getting rid of Lukaku. It wasn't replacing him. Had we jetisoned Lukaku cause he didn't fit the style of play, and brought in a proper striker to replace him, then I don't think many would care about Lukaku staying or not.

A good scoring rate and we where still hopeless with an 80m pound striker. Good riddance alwful player was painful to watch and is proving likewise at Inter.

Drumpot

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

How much of a fall does the books take with 2 years out of CL with regards the Adidas money?

Not as much as people might imagine if the club isn’t spending 150mil - 200 mil net on transfers. There is more then one way to skin a cat, success on field is only one of those. Cutting costs and getting a cheap as chips manager and trying to replace high profile players with youth is another.

MeMen2_MoRi_

bmcc10 wrote: »

Can't believe people think it was a mistake letting Lukaku go, He stunk up the place for 2 yrs and been critical of Ole that's one decision he got right. If he was still here we'd be complaining about his touch his hold up play and him in general been useless

Hopefully Martial is back soon at least we looked somewhat threatening with him up front.

It's literally the biggest mistake he's made.

Time line suggests that Lukaku wasn't anywhere near Ole's plans from the get go yet we somehow managed to go through a months of prep and the summer transfer window and not get a replacement in..

And this hoping of martial, that's what been said of the fella from the get go and here we are years down the road and still hoping.

bmcc10

bmcc10 wrote: »

Can't believe people think it was a mistake letting Lukaku go, He stunk up the place for 2 yrs and been critical of Ole that's one decision he got right. If he was still here we'd be complaining about his touch his hold up play and him in general been useless

Hopefully Martial is back soon at least we looked somewhat threatening with him up front.

Why does this point continue to be skewed

Liam O

Whatever about Lukaku, they got 75m for him, but Sanchez is baffling.

Father Hernandez

bmcc10 wrote: »

A good scoring rate and we where still hopeless with an 80m pound striker. Good riddance alwful player was painful to watch and is proving likewise at Inter.

He's actually started life pretty well at Inter.

3 goals in 6 Serie A games incl great goal in Milan Derby and Inter sit top of Serie A

Himself and Conte seem to have a good rapport and his physicality is suiting the league

Win win for both club and player since he's signed

fatherted1969

While I think Oles decisions will ultimately lead to him losing his job he will have acquired 3 players who look like they actually want to play for us and look decent. He will have also cut a huge amount of dead wood from the squad too. Don't expect to see Young, Matic or Jones there after this season. Possibly Pogba moved on too. While in the short term its painful viewing and I think Ole could be replaced before the start of next season I think whoever comes in will have a far leaner ( not having a pop at Lukaku lol) squad than previous managers

Kylo Ren

It's going to be a 10 (at least) year gap between our last league win and the next.

Wonder how many saw that as a real possibility when the big man said he was leaving.

MeMen2_MoRi_

Drumpot wrote: »

Not as much as people might imagine if the club isn’t spending 150mil - 200 mil net on transfers. There is more then one way to skin a cat, success on field is only one of those. Cutting costs and getting a cheap as chips manager and trying to replace high profile players with youth is another.

The figure for missing the CL this year is 40/50m, if no signings in Jan I don't hold hope that we get EL next season the rate things are going, the cloth will need some trimming. The cat will well and truly be out of the bag then, you read the stories that the club/Ed are wanting United to be fighting for the big trophies etc won't be happening under those circumstances.

damowill

10th in Table after 7 games. Scored 9 goals. Man City have scored 27!!!

We just dont have the players or the quality. Rashford has been heavily criticised but in his defence, he did look injured. people say he has lost confidence. its obvious he was carrying an injury and didnt look right. He most likely was given pain relief in order to play. He played while injured last season as well and suffered from it. You can either applaud that or not!

The Number 10 and 7 positions were again (as well as 9) the weaknesses. Lingard and Pereira taken off again. We just dont have the quality there. Another poster mentioned, bringing Fred in and moving Pogba into the 10. I think this has to be the next move if we are going to get any better this season.
And at least with the striker position, Martial is back soon

The Rooster

damowill wrote: »

We just dont have the players or the quality. Rashford has been heavily criticised but in his defence, he did look injured. people say he has lost confidence. its obvious he was carrying an injury and didnt look right. He most likely was given pain relief in order to play. He played while injured last season as well and suffered from it. You can either applaud that or not!

Played the full 90 minutes and manager said he was 100% fit.
Attitude problem or injury problem ?
Let's see how his energy levels look when he pulls on the England jersey in the international break

adox

Kylo Ren wrote: »

It's going to be a 10 (at least) year gap between our last league win and the next.

Wonder how many saw that as a real possibility when the big man said he was leaving.

Honestly I would say no one. Most accepted that it was the end of an era and we may have to settle for a couple of seasons of CL football when the club regrouped and found its new identity before challenging again but mis management at the top level has put the club into a tail spin of epic proportions. The warning signs were there so early on with the first couple of transfer fiascos. It was an embarrassment to the club but it was put down to Woodward and his cronies being new to it and they would learn.

Woodward’s name is stamped all over this period for the club. Some may see it as simplistic just to blame him in isolation for this, and it most certainly is, but he is the one new common denominator in all of this. He carries a huge huge part of the blame.

The fact that he is being aloud to continue to wield such power at the club and his position hasn’t been tweaked at all to concentrate solely on the financial side of things tells you all you need to know about the current owners.

It’s an absolute mess. The squad is a mess. The manager is out of his depth. The recruitment is a mess. The football is a mess. There is no vision for the club. There is no forward thinking. We aren’t seeing a rebuild. We are seeing more book balancing.

I feel sorry for Ole. He’s a hero at the club and seems like a good honest guy but he’s already been swallowed by the machine and is the public face for the shambles that is happening before our very eyes.
He’s out of his depth though. The performances and results have been shocking for a long time. He shouldn’t get a free ride because of all the above I’ve outlined. He has to held responsible for what he does and doesn’t do.

His times up already. I’d say he knows it too. It is, as usual how long it takes to play out. My best guess would be early next year.

Of course people will say you can’t keep firing managers, nothing will ultimately change but the manager has to be held accountable for his performance (as should the players). I personally think that just because things are broken from the top at the club that having apathy about the mangers position because of it is not the road to go down and ultimately more damaging.

Th8ngs can change quickly in football but it’s a very long road back for Utd. It can’t begin properly until the owners are gone and Woodward as well, but there has to be some sort of accountability within the club for the rest of the employees. For there to be none would damage the club even further.

It’s bleak. Really bleak imo.

bmcc10

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

It's literally the biggest mistake he's made.

Time line suggests that Lukaku wasn't anywhere near Ole's plans from the get go yet we somehow managed to go through a months of prep and the summer transfer window and not get a replacement in..

And this hoping of martial, that's what been said of the fella from the get go and here we are years down the road and still hoping.

What replacements was there?

Backstreet Moyes

Lord TSC wrote: »

I'm massively curious as to what level of manager we will go for, and will be happy to take the job.

My personal favorite would be Poch; I think there's an element of "Klopp at Dortmund" about him, and how his team peaked and caved. I think he took Spurs to a CL final with far less resources than we'd give him.

I couldn't see an Allgeri.

Would the board want to take a risk on a manager like Howe or a European equivilent. A Nagelsmann type manager. Not a "big name" like Jose or LVG, but also not an inexperienced club legend. A young manager looking to prove himself and take a step up.

I'm not sure about a Rodgers style manager, but would they have interest in someone like Benetiz?

Howe for me personally

He took up Bournemouth has them playing great football and Keeps them up comfortably each year

His man management is obviously very good he has been there a long time and things have not gone stale

recyclebin

bmcc10 wrote: »

What replacements was there?

Vardy or Lewandowski would have good choices as a short term solution.

bmcc10

recyclebin wrote: »

Vardy or Lewandowski would have good choices as a short term solution.

Stop neither of them was ever gonna come United.

MeMen2_MoRi_

bmcc10 wrote: »

What replacements was there?

If no replacement was either being sought or found, make amends with Lukaku stroke his ego make him feel like he is the most important player in the world..

You don't cut your nose off dispite your face.

In case you missed a previous post.. arsenal striker 17 games 17 goals.. United 15 goals from a squad of players.

Gimme that bad first touch, sh!te hold up play over that kinda stat.

Drumpot

adox wrote: »

Honestly I would say no one. Most accepted that it was the end of an era and we may have to settle for a couple of seasons of CL football when the club regrouped and found its new identity before challenging again but mis management at the top level has put the club into a tail spin of epic proportions. The warning signs were there so early on with the first couple of transfer fiascos. It was an embarrassment to the club but it was put down to Woodward and his cronies being new to it and they would learn.

Woodward’s name is stamped all over this period for the club. Some may see it as simplistic just to blame him in isolation for this, and it most certainly is, but he is the one new common denominator in all of this. He carries a huge huge part of the blame.

The fact that he is being aloud to continue to wield such power at the club and his position hasn’t been tweaked at all to concentrate solely on the financial side of things tells you all you need to know about the current owners.

It’s an absolute mess. The squad is a mess. The manager is out of his depth. The recruitment is a mess. The football is a mess. There is no vision for the club. There is no forward thinking. We aren’t seeing a rebuild. We are seeing more book balancing.

I feel sorry for Ole. He’s a hero at the club and seems like a good honest guy but he’s already been swallowed by the machine and is the public face for the shambles that is happening before our very eyes.
He’s out of his depth though. The performances and results have been shocking for a long time. He shouldn’t get a free ride because of all the above I’ve outlined. He has to held responsible for what he does and doesn’t do.

His times up already. I’d say he knows it too. It is, as usual how long it takes to play out. My best guess would be early next year.

Of course people will say you can’t keep firing managers, nothing will ultimately change but the manager has to be held accountable for his performance (as should the players). I personally think that just because things are broken from the top at the club that having apathy about the mangers position because of it is not the road to go down and ultimately more damaging.

Th8ngs can change quickly in football but it’s a very long road back for Utd. It can’t begin properly until the owners are gone and Woodward as well, but there has to be some sort of accountability within the club for the rest of the employees. For there to be none would damage the club even further.

It’s bleak. Really bleak imo.

I’ve brought up the Woodward common denominator point before and was met with “so Woodward is deciding who we buy and sell now?!l” or some sort of silly version of that. I don’t think people understand how influential he is and how important a role he plays , including when he’s communicating the clubs status/targets with the owners. When you are that high up in an organization you have plenty of leverage to manipulate other areas that may not necessarily be your primary job.

It’s been done to death on here how he can influence transfer policy and effect the first team. Losing SAF was obviously massive but considering the clubs financial muscle it should not of led us this far down. You can count on one hand the amount of clubs in the world that should in theory be able to outspend United for any given target. And yet listening to some fans you would swear the club is living hand to mouth and desperately in need of frugal investment strategy’s. We need to spend better, not just more, but the club has done nothing to address this problem. The summers transfers were an anomaly until we can point to a trend or hear more in depth explanation of what’s changed.

My gut tells me we have owners and a CEO who have made so much money out of the club and continue to make so much money , that they actually are incapable of seeing their own flaws and limitations. They have done nothing revolutionary to address nearly a decade of poor transfers and managerial decisions. You can tell how serious a financial expert takes something not by what they say, but what they do.

The decisions of the club look like any one of us could of done the same over the same period and probably done no worse a job. It’s hard to actually accept and fathom this because it’s hard to see financially successful people as being inept , particularly when they are still making money off a project they thats failing badly. But here we are....

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Nuts102 wrote: »

Howe for me personally

He took up Bournemouth has them playing great football and Keeps them up comfortably each year

His man management is obviously very good he has been there a long time and things have not gone stale

Just for arguments sake, didn't Moyes do a similar job?

Bret Hart

6 out of our next 7 fixtures away from home. Not won away since Paris. This is not going to be pretty. I do believe he's got though up too the November international break to save his job.

Backstreet Moyes

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Just for arguments sake, didn't Moyes do a similar job?

Howe plays a much better brand of football and it's completely different

Moyes took over a team full of superstars who didn't respect him

Howe would be coming in to build a team and make superstars

nullzero

Bret Hart wrote: »

6 out of our next 7 fixtures away from home. Not won away since Paris. This is not going to be pretty. I do believe he's got though up too the November international break to save his job.

Not sure the axe is likely to fall to be honest.

Jose got the chop because he finished second the previous season and failed to push the side forward in any way, fell out with everyone at the club, spent months moaning in press conferences and had us playing dreadful football.

Ole is in reset and change the culture of the club mode at the moment. Our three summer signings have been relatively successful as compared to Jose's one and only signing going into last season (Fred) who iss till a peripheral figure.
I think the club have written this season off as had many fans. It is what it is, and while it may be not be pretty a fallow season to help change things for the better in years to come when put in perspective of what we've been through since Fergie left is probably not the worst possible thing we can deal with. Assuming of course that we continue to bring the right players into the club over the next few windows that is.

Rayne Wooney

He’s extremely lucky the Liverpool game falls after the international break.

If the next two league games go as expected ie dropping at least 3 points, and Ole is still in the job it will be an indication to us fans that they will probably just leave him in to captain the titanic for the rest of the season, barring a relegation scare.

If a manager isn’t sacked after getting 9-12 points from 9 games then there’s not much lower you can go than that, we’ll see whether Woodward has the spine to admit his mistake.

Drumpot

nullzero wrote: »

Not sure the axe is likely to fall to be honest.

Jose got the chop because he finished second the previous season and failed to push the side forward in any way, fell out with everyone at the club, spent months moaning in press conferences and had us playing dreadful football.

.

Out of curiosity , how do you think was Jose meant to push the side on in any meaningful way with one signing ? How do you think senior, ambituous players reacted to last summers additions to help united "push on" ???

A lot of people seem to be happy to place the apathetic performances of the team solely on Jose's shoulders. I think there is a strong chance that senior players who joined United to win trophies, were just as, if not more disappointed with Uniteds recruitments last summer.

I think this is part of the reason why the club is now shifting the goalposts to "of course we want to build the squad on youth tradition yadda yadda yadda, everythings grand, rebuild and stuff, we are still minted and a massive club" . . Pogba, Lukaku, Sanchez didnt Join United to be part of unambitious rebuilds with managers of absolutely no pedigree to be confident of success. Sanchez was barely around when Jose had a falling out with Pogba so there is a good chance he quickly regretted his decision to leave Arsenal for United. Pogba has seldom looked happy at United, maybe at some point he realised how much the club didnt really intend on pushing for a league or champions league, no more so then last summer. Lukaku of course became the scapegoat as soon as Fellaini was sold off and some fans shifted to another target.

Backstreet Moyes

nullzero wrote: »

Not sure the axe is likely to fall to be honest.

Jose got the chop because he finished second the previous season and failed to push the side forward in any way, fell out with everyone at the club, spent months moaning in press conferences and had us playing dreadful football.

Ole is in reset and change the culture of the club mode at the moment. Our three summer signings have been relatively successful as compared to Jose's one and only signing going into last season (Fred) who iss till a peripheral figure.
I think the club have written this season off as had many fans. It is what it is, and while it may be not be pretty a fallow season to help change things for the better in years to come when put in perspective of what we've been through since Fergie left is probably not the worst possible thing we can deal with. Assuming of course that we continue to bring the right players into the club over the next few windows that is.

I think most knew we would struggle this season but not to this extent

Ole has no plan or vision he is tactically clueless and his management of Rashford has been awful not to mention his subs

Since he has got the job he has us in relegation form and a top half finish looks in doubt whatever about writing off the season this is unacceptable

Weepsie

Nuts102 wrote: »

Howe plays a much better brand of football and it's completely different

Moyes took over a team full of superstars who didn't respect him

Howe would be coming in to build a team and make superstars

Moyes made one, maybe 2 crucial mistakes. Getting rid of the entire backroom staff was silly.
The expertise he could've leaned on would've helped and made him a better manager.

He should slowly have changed the coaching team.

His training regime was apparently brutal as if questioning the reigning champions fitness and such. This wasn't like Clough at Leeds as that was a case of 2 winning forces opposing each other, but not far off.

That all coupled with Eds absolutely dire transfer inexperience at the time made it a complete cluster....

Had he kept some coaching staff and the transfers were handled competently I think he would've been a relative success, but that's possibly just in terms of keeping us consistent and top 4 etc.

limnam

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

He’s extremely lucky the Liverpool game falls after the international break.

If the next two league games go as expected ie dropping at least 3 points, and Ole is still in the job it will be an indication to us fans that they will probably just leave him in to captain the titanic for the rest of the season, barring a relegation scare.

If a manager isn’t sacked after getting 9-12 points from 9 games then there’s not much lower you can go than that, we’ll see whether Woodward has the spine to admit his mistake.

You can't put a price on players happiness and level of craic in training

downwesht

If Ole goes who will replace him?
Poch? would cost a fortune.....
Allegri? a risk in that he has no premiership experience
Brendan Rogers? probably the best fit at the moment.....

Backstreet Moyes

downwesht wrote: »

If Ole goes who will replace him?
Poch? would cost a fortune.....
Allegri? a risk in that he has no premiership experience
Brendan Rogers? probably the best fit at the moment.....

You would have to question at this point would he leave Leicester for United

Father Hernandez

downwesht wrote: »

If Ole goes who will replace him?
Poch? would cost a fortune.....
Allegri? a risk in that he has no premiership experience
Brendan Rogers? probably the best fit at the moment.....

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108897936&postcount=8066

I’d like to see Laurent Blanc given the opportunity if José was to go. Bring him in to steady the ship until the end of the season allowing the hierarchy proper time to focus on a longer term replacement.

If Blanc was to perform in that time, why not give to him. He’s an ex player under SAF who knows the United way, importantly he’s a leader, won trophies as a manager and managed France through a tough time at international level.

He’d be able to attract top quality players IMO & has prev history of playing attractive attacking football based on the philosophies he learned at Barca & United. We’d have a very realistic chance of getting him too

All depends on Mourinho leaving of course...

Back in December 2018 I was calling for Laurent Blanc to come in and steady the ship, weirdly what Solskjaer had done and was then given the job full time. Wonder if Blanc had of been chosen what would've happened.

He's actually still 9/1 at the moment and does hold some pedigree as a manager.

Given the current climate at United I'm not sure who is the person to manage/coach this side, there's too many variables from the top down that will limit the person to succeed.

Drumpot

downwesht wrote: »

If Ole goes who will replace him?
Poch? would cost a fortune.....
Allegri? a risk in that he has no premiership experience
Brendan Rogers? probably the best fit at the moment.....

I’m not sure it matters what happens while Woodward is at the wheel. I can’t understand how every fan is not united on this one target. We prob won’t get rid of the glazers easily but he’s a vulnerable target that would hurt them and at least force change that we can see. Maybe they would just replace him with another stooge but it would finally be an arrow across the owners bow that yielded blood. Why isn’t there Woodward out banners every game? I don’t get it.

The Nal

Back to Maguires passing, last night, again, dreadful.

Even simple passes across the back to Young were a foot behind him. He did this 3 or 4 times in a row. Basic stuff.

PARlance

Your Airbag wrote: »

I don't think anybodies happy when we are clearly not going to be in a title fight and top four will be a big ask to but sacking Ole solves nothing.


He gutted a squad that he took over from 6th, he managed to strengthen defense but there is a lot more work to do.Expectations are always high but we need to be realistic. Getting to stage where we can challenge City or Liverpool is going to take ore than one window. I'm prepared to give Ole that at least before calling for his head.

I try to be realistic and I'm still backing Ole but he has made 2 big errors that has not helped himself at all.

1. The Rashford fairy tale, his pet project to turn him into a striker. He is not and will never be imo. You can't train instinct at that level. Rashford has all the potential to be a really great wide forward but Ole's backing off him probably played a big part in 1. Lukaku acting the p**** and 2. not replacing/demanding to replace Lukaku. I genuinely believe that's on Ole more so than the Board.

Thankfully, I think the penny has dropped on this. Martial is favoured as the striker now and when Greenwood gets his minutes, he is being favoured ahead of Rashford as well.

2. The priorities of the rebuild. I think we would be much better off if we had focused on signings that really affected our style of play. Build from the front in essence. That's the way Klopp and Pep prioritised things. Look at the best teams in Europe and you'll see that attacking is their strength more so than defending. I would have signed an ACM, Striker along with James and we'd have probably conceded more but we'd almost certainly have more points on the board.

The league position is pretty bleak but there's loads of time yet and nobody outside of the top 2 (who are miles ahead) are really firing. It'll take time, we have too many players that don't have the quality needed. At least we've had a decent clear out and those that remain seem to be trying, despite some of the shortcomings.

Ole needs to make sure we get an ACM or striker in January imo, not ideal to be shopping in January but getting one in is a must and I would have the ACM as the number 1 priority... Someone low risk and proven. Someone like Maddison would be my ideal target in Jan. Young but proven, someone that can create chances and play on the break/high press etc... and a massive United fan as the cherry on top.

Despite all the doom and gloom, I think we've made 3 great signings and 2 or 3 more in the right areas, completely changes things. By completely changes things... I'm not sure that means competing for a title but it would mean a comfortable top 4, better football and an ability to see the gap closed eventually.

Weepsie

Drumpot wrote: »

I’m not sure it matters what happens while Woodward is at the wheel. I can’t understand how every fan is not united on this one target. We prob won’t get rid of the glazers easily but he’s a vulnerable target that would hurt them and at least force change that we can see. Maybe they would just replace him with another stooge but it would finally be an arrow across the owners bow that yielded blood. Why isn’t there Woodward out banners every game? I don’t get it.

As long as the glazers are there, Woodward is their. He is there man. He is the one who advised them in how to buy the club. They took him with them and he is the one who is helping them absolutely coin it. If he goes, it's only if they're going too.

Lord TSC

If the Glaziers had an issue with the job Woodward is doing, he'd have been replaced or shifted sideways years ago. That he hasn't been is a clear sign the Glaziers couldn't give two ****s about the club, in terms of on the field stuff.

Drumpot

Lord TSC wrote: »

If the Glaziers had an issue with the job Woodward is doing, he'd have been replaced or shifted sideways years ago. That he hasn't been is a clear sign the Glaziers couldn't give two ****s about the club, in terms of on the field stuff.

True but they do care a lot about optics and public relations. Marketing is their mine and a fan revolt against Woodward could force them to act. Again might only be a token gesture but it’s better then letting them sit snug as a bug. Woodward is effectively like a great salesman/innovator who got promoted to a position he’s incapable of making work because the owners don’t want to lose him. Since the profits have kept rolling in they don’t care if he’s any good at his job.

Zeek12

Lord TSC wrote: »

If the Glaziers had an issue with the job Woodward is doing, he'd have been replaced or shifted sideways years ago. That he hasn't been is a clear sign the Glaziers couldn't give two ****s about the club, in terms of on the field stuff.

This is precisely why the "WOODWARD OUT" Campaign doesn't make much sense to me.

If the axe should fall on him (and there's little to suggest that day is imminent), the Glazers will simply install Ed 2.0.
And the cycle of mediocrity continues.....

Woodward, as the root of all our problems, is an over simplistic analysis of the problems at the club.

Drumpot

Zeek12 wrote: »

This is precisely why the "WOODWARD OUT" Campaign makes little sense to me.

If the axe should fall on him (and there's little to suggest that day is imminent), the Glazers will simply install Ed 2.0.
And the cycle of mediocrity continues.....

Woodward, as the root of all our problems, is an over simplistic analysis of the problems at the club.

Glazers out and Woodward our are two completely different things. The owners would be willing to sack (pay him more and move him around) Woodward if there was enough protests and it appeased fans.

I never said it would resolve the problem, but it bloodies their nose and forces the owners to make a decision they clearly don’t want to make by sacking him. The fans have never forced the glazers to do anything so maybe them having to take action for once could be a catalyst for a sale or a Change. Boxers losing their first fight can be stunned and forced to rethink their strategy. Nothing changes if nothing changes.

Lord TSC

Fabrizio Romano: Massimiliano Allegri learning English as he targets Manchester United job

DM_7

Put emotion and expectation to one side and I think the suggestion the Glazers don't care at all does not make sense. Obviously they won't care the way a fan would but they will have expectations of results and performance on the field.

I think as business people the scale of money spent on the team and the on pitch results, continued requests for more money to spend will have them asking a lot of questions and making demands of Ed. United have also received a lot of reputational damage due to rhe instability, they make a lot of money from their appeal which is getting hurt and more the club is not seen as a premier item anymore.

On the pitch, up to last seasons meltdown things were, from a results POV going okay. Not great but had moved along nicely post Moyes if looking at results rather than what a fan looks for.

Moyes was a disaster. A lot of that down to Ed's role as his own.
Replaced by LVG, did well in season one, brought in a lot of new players with clubs investment.
Season 2 saw the club invest a lower amount but finish 5th, very close to top four and won a cup.

Changed to Jose, at that point the club were behind where they would want to be but were doing okay. They went all out spending that summer and the next signing players. Season 1 saw cups and Champions League qualification, season 2 saw a rise up the league.

Glazers were getting a return for the money the club spent and sanctioned by them at that point.

Summer three under Jose saw more cash spent but a battle about if it was enough. Jose imploded/Team imploded and universally questions were raised about the quality of a lot of what was spent in previous seasons.

This was the first time the Glazers would have asked real questions or even Ed would have had to ask if the spend out of trouble basis he worked on was good enough.

Since then they club seemed to move in another direction and look for return on money spent. 3 good players brought in. Use of young players within the club, either already bought or developed. Looking to reset and go with a more structured approach. It is a very american approach to move on a lot of the senior players and look to younger ones, entering a 'process', where immediate results and performances are not as important.

Zeek12

Drumpot wrote: »

Glazers out and Woodward our are two completely different things. The owners would be willing to sack (pay him more and move him around) Woodward if there was enough protests and it appeased fans.

I never said it would resolve the problem, but it bloodies their nose and forces the owners to make a decision they clearly don’t want to make by sacking him. The fans have never forced the glazers to do anything so maybe them having to take action for once could be a catalyst for a sale or a Change. Boxers losing their first fight can be stunned and forced to rethink their strategy. Nothing changes if nothing changes.

Fair point.
But the cynic in me says making change for "change's sake" will achieve very little. If they are pushed into making a change by very public fan protest, most likely they will panic and install just another Ed-type, while ridding themselves of the perceived toxic Woodward personality.

I'm not a keen follower of American sports. But from the research I've done I can see Tampa Bay have been stagnating for a long time under Glazer ownership....about a decade.
During this time they've hired and fired several GMs (a fairly similar role to Woodward's as regards overseeing player recruitment). Without much improvement.

It's a nice thought that firing Woodward will significantly improve things.

I just don't find it to be a particularly convincing argument.

Whatsisname

Lord TSC wrote: »

Fabrizio Romano: Massimiliano Allegri learning English as he targets Manchester United job

Can’t imagine how well fans would take to him if Mourinho was criticised for being too negative.

Headshot

Lord TSC wrote: »

Fabrizio Romano: Massimiliano Allegri learning English as he targets Manchester United job

Id take him in a heart beat at this stage.

I'm far from a fool to think it will resolve all our issues but i'm hoping it's a good short term fix

The team at the moment is bereft of confidence and creativity. We need some kind of change