Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2019/2020

Cotts72

Liked what I've seen of haaland tonight, powerful and always looking for the ball. Looks a proper no9

xtal191

Cotts72 wrote: »

Liked what I've seen of haaland tonight, powerful and always looking for the ball. Looks a proper no9

Korean lad up front with him looks just as good

bucketybuck

Probably been said, but it would be very interesting if Pochettino were to part ways with Spurs.

Its one thing to stick with Ole and his "plan", but considering his abject record as manager a viable replacement coming available could really change the sentiment there.

Not entirely sure Pochettino will end up at Madrid either, they are poor enough right now but they are still top of the league and Zidane does have a bit of grace there, I think they will give him more time.

I think I would welcome a few more defeats for Spurs right now.

PARlance

bucketybuck wrote: »

Probably been said, but it would be very interesting if Pochettino were to part ways with Spurs.

Its one thing to stick with Ole and his "plan", but considering his abject record as manager a viable replacement coming available could really change the sentiment there.

Not entirely sure Pochettino will end up at Madrid either, they are poor enough right now but they are still top of the league and Zidane does have a bit of grace there, I think they will give him more time.

I think I would welcome a few more defeats for Spurs right now.

So Poch seems to be struggling with expectations after last year, struggling with the board, struggling with players attitudes, struggling to find the right system/style of play, struggling with results... and it'd be good if he struggled some more so he could come to us?

If things continue to get worse that would mean that he has failed to overcome some of the challenges he's going to face with us... and this is something we should be hoping for?

PARlance

PARlance wrote: »

So Poch seems to be struggling with expectations after last year, struggling with the board, struggling with players attitudes, struggling to find the right system/style of play, struggling with results... and it'd be good if he struggled some more so he could come to us?

If things continue to get worse that would mean that he has failed to overcome some of the challenges he's going to face with us... and this is something we should be hoping for?

What manager had not failed at some point or another?

Liam O

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What manager had not failed at some point or another?

He has a top class central defence. One of the top 5 strikers in the world. One of the top 5 number 10s in the world. Ndombele and Lo Celso signed this summer though they've had injury issues I guess. Son is bordering world class and there are a lot of other pieces there.

In comparison to what Ole is currently working with it's night and day, yet Poch, as usual, has failed to take the next step. Talks nonsense in press conferences and still has won nothing despite having the best defense and one of the best attacks in the league at times over the last 4 or so seasons. The CL run last year shows the potential of that team, potential that Poch has never lived up to.

adox

There is something going on at Spurs way beyond a loss of form and poor management. They have literally fallen off a cliff in a very short space of time after a few years of pretty consistent form.

It's incredibly short sighted and simplistic to use their current predicament as a gauge to measure Poch.

Liam O

Liam O wrote: »

He has a top class central defence. One of the top 5 strikers in the world. One of the top 5 number 10s in the world. Ndombele and Lo Celso signed this summer though they've had injury issues I guess. Son is bordering world class and there are a lot of other pieces there.

In comparison to what Ole is currently working with it's night and day, yet Poch, as usual, has failed to take the next step. Talks nonsense in press conferences and still has won nothing despite having the best defense and one of the best attacks in the league at times over the last 4 or so seasons. The CL run last year shows the potential of that team, potential that Poch has never lived up to.

I feel a bit odd sticking up for poch as he is no slam dunk for me, but i think he did very well last season given the circumstances, i dont agree on the defense anymore they have regressed a lot from where they were, those new signings are barely in the door and ndombele has missed a few games through injury.

Poch also has a great track record at his clubs, in more competitive leagues something ole doesnt,

He is no where near getting enough out of kane at the moment but i have to wonder is Kane the same player he was before all the injuries.

Ole has done nothing to indicate he is a manager of average standard no mind top class, woodward made a massive mistake giving him the job so early and we are again paying the price for his incompetence.

Also its a bit odd to use a champions league final apperance to criticise a manager.

I wasnt planning on getting into a debate but in a choice betwern ole and poch there is only one logical choice,

Lord TSC

adox wrote: »

There is something going on at Spurs way beyond a loss of form and poor management. They have literally fallen off a cliff in a very short space of time after a few years of pretty consistent form.

It's incredibly short sighted and simplistic to use their current predicament as a gauge to measure Poch.

Iirc, Klopp had a similar downturn with Dortmund before Pool moved in hard on him. If a club is overachieving for a few years but not winning trophies, it can eventually tumble (I know Dortmund did win stuff, but we’ve beaten Spurs in the trophy count in recent times and we are all disappointed with the last seven years).

My take on Spurs is that Levy has built something on very shaky foundations that have caved in. His top players are paid poorly (Rashford is paid something like 2.5 times when eriksen is), with many angling to move. They achieved something massive last year, and came close to the league so many times. But, mentally, it looks like they realized they peaked and now don’t know what to do next to kick on a level.

Poch seemed to make hints before the CL final last year that he was considering leaving, even if they won. Even he seems himself moving on to “bigger” things.

I think whoever he goes next, if he’s given a decent budget and control over transfers, he will be looking to take a team to the very top. He plays good football, and before this year, I’d have said he can develop players incredibly well. I think he’d kill with a United budget tbh.

bucketybuck

PARlance wrote: »

So Poch seems to be struggling with expectations after last year, struggling with the board, struggling with players attitudes, struggling to find the right system/style of play, struggling with results... and it'd be good if he struggled some more so he could come to us?

If things continue to get worse that would mean that he has failed to overcome some of the challenges he's going to face with us... and this is something we should be hoping for?

So after 5 years of quietly building a very good team and bringing it into title contention (something United badly needs), he is now not good enough because that team has entered a slump? And that would mean he isn't good enough to do a better job than the current manager, the rookie with the disgraceful record of only 5 wins in the last 21 games?

Seems a little shortsighted to me.

Backstreet Moyes

Liam O wrote: »

He has a top class central defence. One of the top 5 strikers in the world. One of the top 5 number 10s in the world. Ndombele and Lo Celso signed this summer though they've had injury issues I guess. Son is bordering world class and there are a lot of other pieces there.

In comparison to what Ole is currently working with it's night and day, yet Poch, as usual, has failed to take the next step. Talks nonsense in press conferences and still has won nothing despite having the best defense and one of the best attacks in the league at times over the last 4 or so seasons. The CL run last year shows the potential of that team, potential that Poch has never lived up to.

He said what manager has not failed at some point not sure what your big ramble about the squad is

If you don't think Spurs are in a much better position than before he took over you are deluded

He got them to a champions league final and a top 4 finish last season without signing anyone that summer

54and56

Lord TSC wrote: »

Iirc, Klopp had a similar downturn with Dortmund before Pool moved in hard on him. If a club is overachieving for a few years but not winning trophies, it can eventually tumble (I know Dortmund did win stuff, but we’ve beaten Spurs in the trophy count in recent times and we are all disappointed with the last seven years).

My take on Spurs is that Levy has built something on very shaky foundations that have caved in. His top players are paid poorly (Rashford is paid something like 2.5 times when eriksen is), with many angling to move. They achieved something massive last year, and came close to the league so many times. But, mentally, it looks like they realized they peaked and now don’t know what to do next to kick on a level.

Poch seemed to make hints before the CL final last year that he was considering leaving, even if they won. Even he seems himself moving on to “bigger” things.

I think whoever he goes next, if he’s given a decent budget and control over transfers, he will be looking to take a team to the very top. He plays good football, and before this year, I’d have said he can develop players incredibly well. I think he’d kill with a United budget tbh.

If Klopp left Liverpool tomorrow I'd be quite happy with Pooch as his replacement for all the reasons you've outlined above.

Pooch has been at Spurs for 6/7 years? I think, with some rare exceptions such as Sir Alex or Wegner, that's about the natural life cycle of a manager's stint with a club. After that things naturally start to get stale, the players have heard it all before etc etc and the manager himself, like any of us, can need a new challenge to keep them sharp or sharpen them up again.

Selecting a manager for a big club comes down to two basic choices:-

1. Poach an up and coming young manager who is over performing at a smaller club, Pooch himself being a good example moving from Southampton to Spurs.

The risk with this option is "Can he do it at a big club, he's never had pressure like this before or managed top players before?" etc etc

2. Recruit a manager who has previously been successful at one of the other top clubs in the UK/Europe.

The risk with this option is "Can he do it again? Why did he leave the other club if he was performing so well?" etc etc

I guess you could say Utd went with option 1 when Moyes and Ole (questionable that he met the definition of an up and coming manager) were appointed and option 2 when Van Gaal and Mourinho were appointed.

Both options can work but only if they are stepping into a functional structure which will provide the specific support they need to be successful.

The common denominator for all four managers Utd have appointed since Sir Alex retired is that the supportive functional structure just wasn't and isn't currently there due to the priorities of the owners (financial success) not being congruent with the priorities of the managers and supporters (football success) and until that changes it's hard to see how any manager, Pooch or otherwise, will turn things around.

The Nal

So whos excited for AZ Alkmaar tonight?!

DM_7

Lord TSC wrote: »

Iirc, Klopp had a similar downturn with Dortmund before Pool moved in hard on him. If a club is overachieving for a few years but not winning trophies, it can eventually tumble (I know Dortmund did win stuff, but we’ve beaten Spurs in the trophy count in recent times and we are all disappointed with the last seven years).

My take on Spurs is that Levy has built something on very shaky foundations that have caved in. His top players are paid poorly (Rashford is paid something like 2.5 times when eriksen is), with many angling to move. They achieved something massive last year, and came close to the league so many times. But, mentally, it looks like they realized they peaked and now don’t know what to do next to kick on a level.

Poch seemed to make hints before the CL final last year that he was considering leaving, even if they won. Even he seems himself moving on to “bigger” things.

I think whoever he goes next, if he’s given a decent budget and control over transfers, he will be looking to take a team to the very top. He plays good football, and before this year, I’d have said he can develop players incredibly well. I think he’d kill with a United budget tbh.

Spurs are burntout, players like Eriksen were ran into the ground.

Players like Dier and Lamela should be gone. Players brought in by Spurs like Sanchez, Auerier are not that good and have returned little. It is not clear how much influence the manager has ever had on transfers at Spurs so I am not convinced he would do better with more money.

They have recently brought in two new midfield players but also needed a rb, a cb and probably a new no 10.

Poch needs time to rebuild at Spurs so they can go again, few managers can do that, Simeone is the only manager I can think of who has done it.

If Pochettino leaves why would United want a guy who could not deal with a situation at Spurs where they have to make changes (like United)? He actually knows the majority of the players at Sputs so he should know how to win with them more often than not.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

The biggest European game of the week tonight.

Clash of the Titans.

fatherted1969

The problems at Utd are far beyond the manager. No point in changing the manager without identifying the other positions within the club that are hampering us. Been dine to death I know but a manager cannot fix all the wrongs. Our scouting has to improve, our playing style going forward has to be implemented by each coach within the club. Appointing managers over the last 6 years with vastly different styles of play has left us with players the current manager has no interest in and has set us back years. Ole is at least trying to remove these players from the club.

bucketybuck

I don't disagree with anybody who says that there are deeper issues at the club.

But I do believe that there should still be expectations on the manager regardless.

For example, what are the reasons that Rashford looks so badly out of form this past 8 months? Why has Lingard went from good squad option to utterly useless?

The board issues have been there for 10 years, their loss of form is due to other reasons.

Mitch Connor

Rashford is a weird one. I get people don't have faith in him to be a WC striker - but at the moment he looks utterly bereft of ability and confidence. When he went through, and fell over on his shot, vs Arsenal (I didn't see the game vs West Ham) to me it wasn't because he isn't good enough, it was because he had absolutely no confidence in himself to go at the chance.

In saying that though, whatever the reasons for him being very poor at the moment, he is a huge problem.

DM_7

DM_7 wrote: »

Spurs are burntout, players like Eriksen were ran into the ground.

Players like Dier and Lamela should be gone. Players brought in by Spurs like Sanchez, Auerier are not that good and have returned little. It is not clear how much influence the manager has ever had on transfers at Spurs so I am not convinced he would do better with more money.

They have recently brought in two new midfield players but also needed a rb, a cb and probably a new no 10.

Poch needs time to rebuild at Spurs so they can go again, few managers can do that, Simeone is the only manager I can think of who has done it.

If Pochettino leaves why would United want a guy who could not deal with a situation at Spurs where they have to make changes (like United)? He actually knows the majority of the players at Sputs so he should know how to win with them more often than not.

Its not like he didnt want to bring in players he did but said he was coach during the summer like jose last year so you cant blame him for non acquisitions, especially as they brought in no one the year before.

How many coaches could keep a team at constant level like that.?

Drumpot

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Rashford is a weird one. I get people don't have faith in him to be a WC striker - but at the moment he looks utterly bereft of ability and confidence. When he went through, and fell over on his shot, vs Arsenal (I didn't see the game vs West Ham) to me it wasn't because he isn't good enough, it was because he had absolutely no confidence in himself to go at the chance.

In saying that though, whatever the reasons for him being very poor at the moment, he is a huge problem.

I agree with these sentiments and was concerned with the club putting so much responsibility on young players. Even if we had a zlatan or somebody who could step in to help out. You could move rashford out of the frontline, even Move position until he gets his confidence back. He is not Mbappe and he’s not ronaldo/messi good but he’s nowhere near as bad as he has looked for us. And he’s not playing in a team playing with confidence. And he’s not playing in a team used to winning top honors. But he’s playing at a club where there are higher expectations then there really should be.

All these things are stunting his growth. Throw rashford into city or pool and watch a completely different player emerge. Also look at Sanchez and Lukaku who seem to be enjoying their football at inter. There is also the obvious elephant that every player that joins us in the last seven years loses confidence and the will to play!

It’s also part of the reason he got such a silly contract, any agent worth their salt would be doing the same if United are desperate to hold onto good players. We aren’t as big a team, certainly on field, as many people like to fall back on. The phrase “it’s Manchester United” doesn’t mean anything anymore in a good way. It is simply more a reminder of how far the club has fallen. Closer to a decade away from top honors that we want then even challanging realistically for them.

It’s so sad. Every time I come here I think “maybe I can find something good to share or be positive about” but there really is nothing.

loyatemu

Rashford is a decent player - is he any worse at this age than Sterling was at Liverpool? Nobody looks particularly good in this Utd. team.

internelligent

loyatemu wrote: »

Rashford is a decent player - is he any worse at this age than Sterling was at Liverpool? Nobody looks particularly good in this Utd. team.

With better players around him he looks decent. He's shown he can score goals but he'll never be an out and out striker, (not anytime soon anyway). Sterling moved to city 4 years ago and has improved immensely. Slow start though. So after spending a year with city he was 21, Rashford's age, and he was a good bit better.
Sterling at Liverpool showed massive potential and that was reflected in the 50m City paid for him in 2015. Would any team pay similar for Rashford, taking inflation into account?

Backstreet Moyes

loyatemu wrote: »

Rashford is a decent player - is he any worse at this age than Sterling was at Liverpool? Nobody looks particularly good in this Utd. team.

Sterling was wasteful in front of goal but got in great positions constantly he has improved his finishing and is one of the best in the world

Rashford doesn't get into good positions often and his finishing is average

The Nal

If Ole wanted, Zlatan could be playing by late November.

Lucas Hood

The Nal wrote: »

If Ole wanted, Zlatan could be playing by late November.

I don't think he could.
La Galaxy currently hold his registration , English window for transferring registration is closed till January.

Be a different story if he was a free agent.

Talisman

Strumms wrote: »

The stars are aligning, they field ineligible players in cup games which they win, instead of expulsion, it’s only a fine..., in what universe is that ok.... you’d have ‘the pool’ fans gnawing at their rosary beads if that was United....

There was precedent judgement which determined the punishment would only be a fine.

Liverpool fined for fielding ineligible player Pedro Chirivella

In 2014, Sunderland were fined by the Premier League and the EFL after they fielded ineligible player Ji Dong-won in four league matches and a League Cup game.

S.M.B.

The Nal wrote: »

So whos excited for AZ Alkmaar tonight?!

I'm looking forward to it, don't think it's going to be particularly easy though. I think the bookies have the odds all wrong but no chance I'll bet against United.

grumpymunster

Hococop wrote: »

Why did it fall apart for Conte at Chelsea in the end?

Overall I don't think Conte wanted to be in England. When we won the league in his first season he was offered a contract extension and something like a 50% pay increase from around £6m odd to £9m odd which he turned down. As a sign of goodwill Chelsea gave him the wage increase anyway.
Then came the Costa saga where Conte effectively fired him by text, he then seemed to get really p****d off when you guys gazumped us for Lukaku. By this stage he wanted out, his family had finally just joined him in London and by all accounts were not settling. When he did not get what he wanted in the January window it seems he all but down tools and we went from a more or less assured champions league place to finishing 5th (though we did win the FA cup).
Even when things were dreadful (we lost two consecutive away games to Bournemouth and Watford shipping 9 goals) he was not sacked and the fans continued to love him, but in the end it was clear he wanted out and to be back in Italy. Clever man though backed us into a corner and got a £9m payout in the courts (quite ironic it would have been £6m but for the goodwill gesture) despite that payout he is now at the Employment Tribunal in the UK for unfair dismissal.
Excellent manager but I dont think England is his cup of tea would steer clear if I were you.

Supposedly the pitch is meant to be brutal tonight

garra

Talisman wrote: »

There was precedent judgement which determined the punishment would only be a fine.

Liverpool fined for fielding ineligible player Pedro Chirivella

Besides which, we had jokes on social media along the lines of "Klopp deliberately played Chirivella to get us kicked out of the league cup", I don't think anyone associated with the club was breathing a huge sigh of relief to only get a fine...

DM_7

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Its not like he didnt want to bring in players he did but said he was coach during the summer like jose last year so you cant blame him for non acquisitions, especially as they brought in no one the year before.

How many coaches could keep a team at constant level like that.?

I don't blame him at all for Spurs falling back, it is inevitable they would.

I mentioned those things in context of the certainty people have about how good he would be.

To me it is not clear he had control of many transfers at Spurs so why would we be confident he can take that on at United?

Ole is getting grief for not getting the best from his transition team but Poch is in the same sort of place but with arguably a better base of player as well as in depth knowledge of most in his group.

I thought he was the stand out when Jose was sacked, would be the stand out along with Ten Hag if United change manager anytime soon but think question marks exist. They are ones that could only be answered by making the changes.

I also think Ole's work so far would leave United in a better place for any new manager if it came to a change.

Backstreet Moyes

Lingard dropped by England Rashford won't be far behind on recent form

Adamcp898

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Supposedly the pitch is meant to be brutal tonight

Yeah, I’m worried our silky, free-flowing passing game will suffer.

Harry Palmr

The pitch is Den Haag's which is plastic fantastic so passing should be better not worse. Obviously the ball bounces differently so that's probably not going to help United attack.

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The pitch is Den Haag's which is plastic fantastic so passing should be better not worse. Obviously the ball bounces differently so that's probably not going to help United attack.

How would a ball bouncing differently help any teams attack

DM_7

DM_7 wrote: »

I don't blame him at all for Spurs falling back, it is inevitable they would.

I mentioned those things in context of the certainty people have about how good he would be.

To me it is not clear he had control of many transfers at Spurs so why would we be confident he can take that on at United?

Ole is getting grief for not getting the best from his transition team but Poch is in the same sort of place but with arguably a better base of player as well as in depth knowledge of most in his group.

I thought he was the stand out when Jose was sacked, would be the stand out along with Ten Hag if United change manager anytime soon but think question marks exist. They are ones that could only be answered by making the changes.

I also think Ole's work so far would leave United in a better place for any new manager if it came to a change.

O right apologies if I took you up wrong, for me he is head and shoulders above Ole if it was a straight choice between the 2 right now.

Bar a bit of squad clearing what has Ole done, the players lookworse then they did under Jose for the most part or at least as bad as last season

PARlance

Brilliant interview with Berba (Howson). Skip from 2-4 mins to miss all the betfair sh1te.

https://youtu.be/sIG8Vm-VEIo

adox

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The pitch is Den Haag's which is plastic fantastic so passing should be better not worse. Obviously the ball bounces differently so that's probably not going to help United attack.

I’ve been to a couple of matches there and the ball definitely bounces higher on the artificial pitch.

jayo26

adox wrote: »

I’ve been to a couple of matches there and the ball definitely bounces higher on the artificial pitch.

Probably using old leather balls then too so must of been bad back then.

Father Hernandez

https://twitter.com/SimonPeach/status/1179783234441371653?s=20

Good mixture of youth and experience

Great to see Williams start. Deservedly so

xtal191

https://twitter.com/utdxtra/status/1179783860990697472

Mitch Connor

Williams at full back - yep.
Dalot at full back - yep.
Rojo at CB - always a worry.
Matic and Mata in midfiel - nope, two walking pace players.
Gomes, James, Greenwood in the front lines (maybe - Mata could be wide with Gomes in midfiel - AMC) - very interested to see that.

In work til 6, so certain to miss at least the first half... BOOOOOOOOOOO.

The Nal

Lucas Hood wrote: »

I don't think he could.
La Galaxy currently hold his registration , English window for transferring registration is closed till January.

Be a different story if he was a free agent.

His contract is up at the end of the MLS season isnt it? Hes a free agent in a few weeks.

Deleted User wrote: »

Supposedly the pitch is meant to be brutal tonight

That'll wreck our silky quick passing game.

S.M.B.

I did not realise the game was on at 5.55 until now.

votecounts

S.M.B. wrote: »

I did not realise the game was on at 5.55 until now.

You ain't the only one, might stay in the pub a bit longer now:D

Loafing Oaf

Is Ole morphing into Ron Manager?:eek:

”I’m used to it from Norway. It’s not the best I’ve seen.

“It’s one of the worst ones I’ve seen for a long while. We’ve al got standards back home in Norway anyway. It’s safe, I’m not saying it’s not. It’s not the newest.

“It’s just on the floor so on the carpet more or less, so when you pull the grass up you do that loads, there’s more bounce.

“It seems like it’s been used a lot but with my knees I’ve not enjoyed astro turf anyway.

Far cry from small boys on the tundra, snowmen for goalposts...

Michael Owen letting em have it

Talking sense! Worse Utd side in a decades. He's spot on.

Liam O

Playing it around with no penetration. Where have I seen this before...

It's gutless
Tactically inept

Decent start better then other games imo