Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2019/2020

rob316

20 Times 20 Times wrote: »

Ole needs to go for his comments on last nights press conference alone !

Ok we ain’t getting Jose back 😂😂

I would like to see this so call rebuild happen with Eddie Howe

When I read them I thought that's the **** we used to hear from hodgson at Liverpool. A manager hopelessly out of his depth, downplaying expectations to his level. It's a bad squad but you still need to be ambitious and say a result like that, at this level isn't good enough.

RobbingBandit

Director of Football at this stage would have more luck herding cats.

malinheader

Drumpot wrote: »

I see United had looked hard at Martinelli. Also read stories of how many scout reports are not read or considered, don’t have a link but it’s hard not to believe anything that paints united like Fawlty towers at this stage.

It's a pity the scout report on Fred was read. If there even was one .they analysed him after the game Last night. Shocking.

Father Hernandez

votecounts wrote: »

Can we all agree that the question is when will ole be sacked rather than if. He should resign out of respect for the club, it was too big for him, The club should think long and hard about their next manager as the clubs managerial policy is beyond a joke at this stage. We're getting more like liverpool in the 1990s and I do not want to wait 30 years for another title:(

I think this is the case but I'm not sure where United go after.

Managers wise, who in their right mind would want to come? Fans who want the board/owners out, Ed Woodward looking after transfers and existing players on massive contracts not anywhere close to what they should be on.

The squad is paper thin, it's brutal in fact. The only senior player worthy and with leadership quality is DDG and probably Maguire who is at the club a wet week.

There is the promise of money of course which is an incentive of course to managers but will it appeal to the right player? James, Maguire and AWB, all great signings.

We need a forward capable of scoring 20+ goals, someone creative to allow this person to score as well as a world class DM to protect and allow the creative player to flourish.

Not just the above talent wise but we need players to come in with a bit of pride for the shirt, something seriously lacking.

Club is absolutely fúcked and everyone can see it bar the owners, Woodward who couldn't give 2 ****s about the fans

Backstreet Moyes

Father Hernandez wrote: »

I think this is the case but I'm not sure where United go after.

Managers wise, who in their right mind would want to come? Fans who want the board/owners out, Ed Woodward looking after transfers and existing players on massive contracts not anywhere close to what they should be on.

The squad is paper thin, it's brutal in fact. The only senior player worthy and with leadership quality is DDG and probably Maguire who is at the club a wet week.

There is the promise of money of course which is an incentive of course to managers but will it appeal to the right player? James, Maguire and AWB, all great signings.

We need a forward capable of scoring 20+ goals, someone creative to allow this person to score as well as a world class DM to protect and allow the creative player to flourish.

Not just the above talent wise but we need players to come in with a bit of pride for the shirt, something seriously lacking.

We are fitter

Rashford has shown he is a better striker than Lukaka

The football is exciting again

Why wouldn't any manager want to join Jose is gone the bad football is gone and we sold a few squad players massive progress

malinheader

Father Hernandez wrote: »

I think this is the case but I'm not sure where United go after.

Managers wise, who in their right mind would want to come? Fans who want the board/owners out, Ed Woodward looking after transfers and existing players on massive contracts not anywhere close to what they should be on.

The squad is paper thin, it's brutal in fact. The only senior player worthy and with leadership quality is DDG and probably Maguire who is at the club a wet week.

There is the promise of money of course which is an incentive of course to managers but will it appeal to the right player? James, Maguire and AWB, all great signings.

We need a forward capable of scoring 20+ goals, someone creative to allow this person to score as well as a world class DM to protect and allow the creative player to flourish.

Not just the above talent wise but we need players to come in with a bit of pride for the shirt, something seriously lacking.

Club is absolutely fúcked and everyone can see it bar the owners, Woodward who couldn't give 2 ****s about the fans

100%. Big question where to start. I would say from the top down.

DM_7

Jose was sacked for good reason and United should not have recruited him after Van Gaal. United are further back into a rebuild rather than where they were under Van Gaal because of how badly the football side of the club was ran as a whole, not Jose's fault as he did what he always does.

No way should United be looking at a manager who thinks short term again as it will leave another mess to fix when said manager leaves.

Cantona's Collars

pjohnson wrote: »

And whats Ole then?

Give me Jose and his "dinosaur anti football" over Ole's "new attacking football" any day.

As it stands,can anyone see the difference?

Fitz*

Father Hernandez wrote: »

The only senior player worthy and with leadership quality is DDG and probably Maguire who is at the club a wet week.

Not just the above talent wise but we need players to come in with a bit of pride for the shirt, something seriously lacking.

You probably won't like this, but for all his talent over the years, I don't think DDG is a captain leader type player. He still seems like a shy & timid person and player. He doesn't appear like a leader to me. I can see him the odd time shouting some instructions before a corner etc but I would never have called him a leader roaring or dragging his players to victory. Maybe through shot-stopping but then that is kind of failing at leading as the defence are letting shots in on goal.

There have been plenty players released recently by United, or still there, that have the leadership in them and the will to want to fight for the shirt but the quality is not there. Jones, Smalling, Young for all the abuse they get for their on field performances they all have the heads to know what it is about to play for Manchester United. Even Herrera. They are the 'old school' lads who get it. I wouldn't put much faith in the newer flashly lads at all.

And that goes for a lot of teams around these days too. Would I give the captaincy to Salah, Firmino, Coutinho or TAA at Liverpool? No. There is a reason why Henderson, Milner, Lucas and now VVD have got the captaincy every game over the last 5 years.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/Europaleaggue/status/1179838829857050624

y0ssar1an22

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Europaleaggue/status/1179838829857050624

is that an official twitter of Uefa? if so, thats disgraceful carry on.

I hate on rashford as much as any but you cant have the official uefa twitter doing that.

Liam O

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Europaleaggue/status/1179838829857050624

Rashford was good when he came on and should have had a penalty awarded. I think people are being too harsh on him. He wasn't supposed to be the main striker this season and has now been thrust into it with Martial's injury. The team is disjointed and nobody looks good. The potential is there as the Chelsea game showed. Just need to be a bit smarter and get a bit of attacking confidence back. Well, and a couple of attackers signed.

DM_7

Liam O wrote: »

Rashford was good when he came on and should have had a penalty awarded. I think people are being too harsh on him. He wasn't supposed to be the main striker this season and has now been thrust into it with Martial's injury. The team is disjointed and nobody looks good. The potential is there as the Chelsea game showed. Just need to be a bit smarter and get a bit of attacking confidence back. Well, and a couple of attackers signed.

And some coaching!

y0ssar1an22

DM_7 wrote: »

And some coaching!

and a few run into the box, and never taking a free/corner

DM_7

DM_7 wrote: »

Jose was sacked for good reason and United should not have recruited him after Van Gaal. United are further back into a rebuild rather than where they were under Van Gaal because of how badly the football side of the club was ran as a whole, not Jose's fault as he did what he always does.

No way should United be looking at a manager who thinks short term again as it will leave another mess to fix when said manager leaves.

What about jose was short term, outside of matic and zlatan?

Thepoet85

Liam O wrote:

Rashford was good when he came on and should have had a penalty awarded. I think people are being too harsh on him. He wasn't supposed to be the main striker this season and has now been thrust into it with Martial's injury. The team is disjointed and nobody looks good. The potential is there as the Chelsea game showed. Just need to be a bit smarter and get a bit of attacking confidence back. Well, and a couple of attackers signed.

He has 48 goals in 179 appearances for Utd.

Comparatively, Bentdner had 45 in 171 appearances for Arsenal, and was often made a laughing stock. He wasn't on pens either.

Regardless of his potential talent, Rashford shouldn't be on 250k a week imo, and should be learning his trade from an experienced striker, not leading the line.

Father Hernandez

FitzShane wrote: »

You probably won't like this, but for all his talent over the years, I don't think DDG is a captain leader type player. He still seems like a shy & timid person and player. He doesn't appear like a leader to me. I can see him the odd time shouting some instructions before a corner etc but I would never have called him a leader roaring or dragging his players to victory. Maybe through shot-stopping but then that is kind of failing at leading as the defence are letting shots in on goal.

There have been plenty players released recently by United, or still there, that have the leadership in them and the will to want to fight for the shirt but the quality is not there. Jones, Smalling, Young for all the abuse they get for their on field performances they all have the heads to know what it is about to play for Manchester United. Even Herrera. They are the 'old school' lads who get it. I wouldn't put much faith in the newer flashly lads at all.

And that goes for a lot of teams around these days too. Would I give the captaincy to Salah, Firmino, Coutinho or TAA at Liverpool? No. There is a reason why Henderson, Milner, Lucas and now VVD have got the captaincy every game over the last 5 years.

I do agree with you and from my original point it's prob a sad indictment of where we're at as there just isn't anyone else.

I see DDG as a leader in the sense that he does (or has done) his talking on the pitch. Many a game over the past number of years he has been outstanding which should spur others on, some players are just like that.

Maybe more why I see Maguire as filling that leadership presence verbally and quality wise.

Father Hernandez

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

is that an official twitter of Uefa? if so, thats disgraceful carry on.

I hate on rashford as much as any but you cant have the official uefa twitter doing that.

It's a fake account.

Quick tip with Twitter, look out for the blue verification ticks.

Backstreet Moyes

DM_7 wrote: »

Jose was sacked for good reason and United should not have recruited him after Van Gaal. United are further back into a rebuild rather than where they were under Van Gaal because of how badly the football side of the club was ran as a whole, not Jose's fault as he did what he always does.

No way should United be looking at a manager who thinks short term again as it will leave another mess to fix when said manager leaves.

United won a European trophy and finished second under Mourinho

He worked miracles to be honest we won't see a trophy for a long time

He was probably a bad appointment because his ability kept us from seeing just how bad the squad is and now we are a mid table team

bucketybuck

Father Hernandez wrote: »

I think this is the case but I'm not sure where United go after.

I might have said it before, but I think a tipping point was reached last summer. The decline was very much still salvageable had the board acted appropriately, but instead they made some utterly stupid decisions (or lack of decisions even) that meant we were inevitably going to end up at this point.

It was like the club were hurtling towards a cliff. The manager was steering us away from the drop but the club decided that they didn't want to go to the right hand side, they wanted to go left, so they took his hands of the wheel.

So that manager shouted and bailed, now the car has went over the edge and Ole is at the wheel, wagging it from side to side like a toddler but it doesn't matter because the wheels aren't even on the ground any more.

Where does the club go from here? In terms of the player base and the club culture there has been a hell of a lot of damage done, I fear that there is no normal fix going to work now and that things are going to get a hell of a lot worse before they will get better. That doesn't mean give up, but shallow ideas like "go with the yoof" ain't going to cut it at this point.

Lord TSC

Nuts102 wrote: »

He was probably a bad appointment because his ability kept us from seeing just how bad the squad is and now we are a mid table team

On the other hand, a positive from Ole is that its completly shattered the idea that the only thing holding Rashford, Pogba et al back was Jose and his "negative" football.

Ole was pretty much a manager whose job was to tell the players to play with freedom and attack without the shackles on, and it's backfired massively.

Whoever comes in next should have absolute free reign to out anyone left in the squad, and drop this stupid notion that Rashford and the gang of **** we have are world class waiting to be unlocked....

kerplun k

Nuts102 wrote: »

United won a European trophy and finished second under Mourinho

He worked miracles to be honest we won't see a trophy for a long time

He was probably a bad appointment because his ability kept us from seeing just how bad the squad is and now we are a mid table team

LVG won the FA cup. Big whoop, Jose we finished 2nd, almost 20 points behind 1st. I wish people would stop parading this around as some sort of achievement.

Cantona's Collars

218 days since United have scored from a corner or indirect free kick, Watford second worst on 184 days.
That by anyone's standards is abysmal.

Lord TSC

kerplun k wrote: »

LVG won the FA cup. Big whoop, Jose we finished 2nd, almost 20 points behind 1st. I wish people would stop parading this around as some sort of achievement.

Except it was an achievement, relative to our league positions since Fergie left. It wasn't great, but it was a great foundation upon which to build.

Instead, the club torched the site and we've not looked close to a top 4 finish since....

malinheader

kerplun k wrote: »

LVG won the FA cup. Big whoop, Jose we finished 2nd, almost 20 points behind 1st. I wish people would stop parading this around as some sort of achievement.

I would take it this moment in time. It would still make me think that a rebuild is on the way.now I don't know where the club is heading.

pjohnson

kerplun k wrote: »

LVG won the FA cup. Big whoop, Jose we finished 2nd, almost 20 points behind 1st. I wish people would stop parading this around as some sort of achievement.

2nd will be our best achievement for a very long time.

clubberlang12

kerplun k wrote: »

LVG won the FA cup. Big whoop, Jose we finished 2nd, almost 20 points behind 1st. I wish people would stop parading this around as some sort of achievement.

If Ole was to achieve that with the same squad that Mourinho did, it would be universally proclaimed as a feat of achievement by everyone.

Whatsisname

I remember towards the end of last season my dad said to me "atleast it cant get much worse" and I replied "I'm afraid it might".

I really don't see a way out of this. I saw someone on reddit or redcafe last night mention we could be battling relegation which I laughed off, but then when you think about it, we're struggling for goals so bad that you'd wonder when and who they're actually going to come from. We're bereft of ideas up front. Literally every team knows how to play against us and we look clueless. Even when we nick a goal, we can't hold onto the lead. Now I don't think we'll be fighting relegation, but I honestly think we might easily finish 10th or so and go out of the Europa earlier than expected. Frightening really.

The Nal

kerplun k wrote: »

Big whoop, Jose we finished 2nd, almost 20 points behind 1st. I wish people would stop parading this around as some sort of achievement.

Liverpool finished 25 points behind City that season, signed the defender they needed and are now one of the best teams in Europe and favourites to win the league.

Backstreet Moyes

kerplun k wrote: »

LVG won the FA cup. Big whoop, Jose we finished 2nd, almost 20 points behind 1st. I wish people would stop parading this around as some sort of achievement.

Ye and look where we are now with the majority of the same players

bucketybuck

clubberlang12 wrote: »

If Ole was to achieve that with the same squad that Mourinho did, it would be universally proclaimed as a feat of achievement by everyone.

My question is why Ole can't achieve the level of performance he got from these very same players in January?

Julez

bucketybuck wrote: »

My question is why Ole can't achieve the level of performance he got from these very same players in January?

Of all the annoying things, this is one of the most annoying! Is it a motivation or confidence issue?

kerplun k

My argument is that the players Jose brought in to "achieve" a 19 point deficit, 2nd place finish were all short term. Bailly Ibrahimović, Mkhitaryan, Pogba, Lukaku, Matić, Ibrahimović, Sánchez, Fred. All that money on transfer fee's and wages, and this is best he could do. I don't know whats worse, the state we're in now, or people looking back on Jose as some sort of success story.

Backstreet Moyes

It's like some sort of cult people can look at our situation now and say Mourinho was a failure it is funny in fairness

Cantona's Collars

Sky doing a comparison of Ole now and Jose at the same point last season,not a huge amount of difference.

kerplun k

The Nal wrote: »

Liverpool finished 25 points behind City that season, signed the defender they needed and are now one of the best teams in Europe and favourites to win the league.

Summer, Mohamed Salah
Summer, Dominic Solanke
Summer, Andrew Robertson
Summer. Ox Chamberlain
Winter, Virgil van Dijk

This is Liverpool signings from that season. A season were they also finished runners up in the CL. We are no where even near that level, nor have we been since Fergie left. Especially now, and especially under Jose.

Whatsisname

kerplun k wrote: »

My argument is that the players Jose brought in to "achieve" a 19 point deficit, 2nd place finish were all short term. Bailly Ibrahimović, Mkhitaryan, Pogba, Lukaku, Matić, Ibrahimović, Sánchez, Fred. All that money on transfer fee's and wages, and this is best he could do. I don't know whats worse, the state we're in now, or people looking back on Jose as some sort of success story.

Age when signed

Bailly – 22
Ibrahimovic - 35
Mkhitaryan - 27
Pogba - 23
Lukaku - 24
Matic - 29
Sanchez - 28
Lindelof - 23
Fred - 25
Dalot - 19

10 players, 4 over the age of 25. Short term indeed.

mamax

A lot of good players in the squad but sadly most of them are lacking good old fashioned hard work and more importantly Desire to win
Very sad watching that game last night

clubberlang12

kerplun k wrote: »

My argument is that the players Jose brought in to "achieve" a 19 point deficit, 2nd place finish were all short term. Bailly Ibrahimović, Mkhitaryan, Pogba, Lukaku, Matić, Ibrahimović, Sánchez, Fred. All that money on transfer fee's and wages, and this is best he could do. I don't know whats worse, the state we're in now, or people looking back on Jose as some sort of success story.

In the words of Ricky Bobby "If you ain't first.......you're last". A quote that is satirical in meaning!

The 2nd place finish will be seen over this current period of time, as the exception and not the norm for United.

Who bought these players? Were they club signings? Jose signings? "This is why i am head coach, not a manager".

Even when it's clear as day that the club was on an upward trajectory until last summer, many want to pin the blame on Jose.

Backstreet Moyes

Whatsisname wrote: »

Age when signed

Bailly – 22
Ibrahimovic - 35
Mkhitaryan - 27
Pogba - 23
Lukaku - 24
Matic - 29
Sanchez - 28
Lindelof - 23
Fred - 25
Dalot - 19

10 players, 4 over the age of 25. Short term indeed.

Yes but it was Jose so facts don't matter

kerplun k

Whatsisname wrote: »

Age when signed

Bailly – 22
Ibrahimovic - 35
Mkhitaryan - 27
Pogba - 23
Lukaku - 24
Matic - 29
Sanchez - 28
Lindelof - 23
Fred - 25
Dalot - 19

10 players, 4 over the age of 25. Short term indeed.

Forget age, I'm talking about legacy, Apart from Lindelof, which one of these has gone onto becoming a regular in our team? Everyone of these stopped playing for him. He signed the wrong players, that gave him immediate "success" (If you want to call it that), but the players he signed left a lasting legacy of players that wanted to cash in and cash out of the club, or are just deadwood now at our club.

Backstreet Moyes

Anyone see the video of the Salzburg manager going ballistic at half time over the performance and our manager said we played well last night how far has the club fallen

The Nal

kerplun k wrote: »

Forget age, I'm talking about legacy, Apart from Lindelof, which one of these has gone onto becoming a regular in our team? Everyone of these stopped playing for him. He signed the wrong players, that gave him immediate "success" (If you want to call it that), but the players he signed left a lasting legacy of players that wanted to cash in and cash out of the club, or are just deadwood now at our club.

Id be interested to know how many of those were his first choice. Dont underestimate the loss of David Gill. As big of a loss as Fergie was.

Fergie and Gill are both at fault for leaving at the same time. They would've had to know that replacing themselves with the Moyesiah and Ed was a huge huge risk. Everything has stemmed from that.

Jurgen The German

Nuts102 wrote: »

It's like some sort of cult people can look at our situation now and say Mourinho was a failure it is funny in fairness

It's an easy story to tell and as was previously mentioned, it's the people that laid the blame solely at JMs feet for the poor performances.

Jose had to go, he had lost the dressing room and had fallen out with the board. His position was untenable, i think most people would agree on that. The major point is how did he get to that stage, who was to blame for him not being happy to accept mediocrity? Big Ed, that's who.

If you make a deal with the devil you better be prepared to stick to it and Ed was not.

clubberlang12

kerplun k wrote: »

Forget age, I'm talking about legacy, Apart from Lindelof, which one of these has gone onto becoming a regular in our team? Everyone of these stopped playing for him. He signed the wrong players, that gave him immediate "success" (If you want to call it that), but the players he signed left a lasting legacy of players that wanted to cash in and cash out of the club, or are just deadwood now at our club.

Again, who actually identified and signed these players?

Klopp didn't identify Robertson, Salah......in fact he had to be convinced by the scouting committee that he should be a primary target.

And out of those players, who stopped playing for him....

-Pogba......still same issues with Ole
-Bailly.......still same issues with Ole
-Sanchez......still same issues with Ole
-Mik.....same issues at Arsenal and now gone from there.

So is it a Mourinho issue......or a player issue?

kerplun k

clubberlang12 wrote: »

Again, who actually identified and signed these players?

Klopp didn't identify Robertson, Salah......in fact he had to be convinced by the scouting committee that he should be a primary target.

And out of those players, who stopped playing for him....

-Pogba......still same issues with Ole
-Bailly.......still same issues with Ole
-Sanchez......still same issues with Ole
-Mik.....same issues at Arsenal and now gone from there.

So is it a Mourinho issue......or a player issue?

Both. I think Jose should have stepped in at the point when we signed Sanchez. Pep was smart enough to not sign due to his wage demands, and tbf, his arrival did seem to rattle the other big names at the time. With Pogba, we knew what his agent was like, again I think more questions should have been asked if he was the right player for us. I know hindsight is 20/20, but these are the things a manager, especially someone on JMs wage will be judged on.

clubberlang12

kerplun k wrote: »

Both. I think Jose should have stepped in at the point when we signed Sanchez. Pep was smart enough to not sign due to his wage demands, and tbf, his arrival did seem to rattle the other big names at the time. With Pogba, we knew what his agent was like, again I think more questions should have been asked if he was the right player for us. I know hindsight is 20/20, but these are the things a manager, especially someone on JMs wage will be judged on.

Stepped in? Jose alluded to the fact that he is a coach, not really involved in other club matters such as contract negotiations. The wages are simply down to Ed and the board. The same way the wages of Martial and Rashford are down to the board. Do you really think Ole would have been able to step in there?

Managers will be judged on performances and results at the end of the day. When Jose was dismissed, it was inevitable. His relationship with the board was strained, his relationship with some high profile squad players which the board seemed to have affection for was strained. Jose going then was the right call. It's the mistakes by the board that led to that call were avoidable. Jose was in a power play and ultimately lost. Ole won't get in to a power play as he holds no chips at the table.

As i mentioned before, the only person that seemingly spoke out against the poor running of the club, was a person with no affinity to the club.........Jose. Will we ever see Ole criticise Ed and Co.? I doubt it, as "yes men" rarely do.

Liam O

The lack of intensity and sheer will is a baffling one really. I mean these are people who've overcome every obstacle to be a professional footballer, let alone playing for United and they slowly pass the ball around like it doesn't matter if they win or lose. Why isn't it tearing at their insides or has the money just corrupted them?

kerplun k

From reports, it was Ole that turned down the Dybala deal.
Jose is not one to shy away from conflict, if he had no input on the players and wages signed under his leadership, he'd be talking about it.
The only criticism I'm hearing from Jose now, is Eds decision not to sign him on CB (maguire), which he's absolutely right to complain about.

In regards to Ole, I genuinely believes that he thinks he's in charge. he had it in his head that he wants to change the philosophy of the club. He's being manipulated by Ed and the board, because it's cheap. But I honestly do believe that he thinks this is all his idea.