Work expenses no credit card

krissovo

I was in the same situation for many years, no personal credit card & lots of travel with no company credit card. It was a large international company but the Irish office was small and had no real local HR facilities.

No matter how well you budget there are months where the payment back from your expenses are delayed or an exceptional month where expenses are higher than normal. Also when you are in that situation I certainly experienced traveling below the corporate standards like getting a coach class flight when I was entitled to business class or a 2 star hotel when I was entitled to 4 or 5 as I would not have the cash flow.

Firstly I highly advise opening a separate expense bank account, keep your expenses separate from your personal banking. This way you can share with your employer to highlight the challenges without showing personal banking details.

Per Diem, most have policies what you can spend per day. Claim the max, travel fairly frugally and start building credit in the expense account. Per diem is a double edge sword though, in one of my examples I was claiming €55 per day which works great for most of Europe but on assignments in Scandinavia like in Sweden €55 would not get you through the day unless you lived on Macdonalds. If you are clever you can book hotels with breakfast included this can mean more saving.

Cash advance, any travel out of the ordinary request a cash advance. In my first year of traveling I went on one occasion to the extreme of pawning a expensive guitar to fund company travel to “save face” rather than ask. I found no one cares if you ask and in my 2nd year of traveling I would request quite happily and openly talk about the cost of business travel.

Central Hotel & flight booking, I found one of the senior managers from Germany would/could book flights and hotels for me and my expenses were limited to the per diem or local taxis.

helimachoptor

Like others I had a company Amex, but the expenses generated an invoice and I had to submit monthly. But the Amex dd came out of my account. For a long time the expenses if submitted by the 30th were paid the following month, but they ended up changing it to weekly.

Approved by Tuesday and it was paid Friday. Large mnc with thousands of people travelling weekly

AndrewJRenko

Dial Hard wrote: »

It was 12c per km in one private sector company I worked in, regardless of engine size. 40c is generous, slice it any way you want. And let us not forget that the top rate is actually 59c.

Lads, you're not even covering the cost of fuel at 12c, let alone wear and tear on tyres and brakes etc.


https://www.theaa.ie/aa/motoring-advice/cost-of-motoring.aspx


You're subsiding your employer if you're driving at this level. The only time I came across anything this low was when the employer was also separately paying a car allowance as part of salary.



I remember the good old days in the private sector of clocking up 75p a mile. If you're letting your employer away with 12c, don't expect others to join you in your race to the bottom.

Mellor wrote: »

That comes to €39. So the cost to you is €6.


€1 Breakfast, €3 Lunch. and Dinner, let's say €4. Cost to you is €8

You are out of pocket when on the road, but the alternative isn't free so you are still saving money. That's ignoring the convenience of not having to make 3 meals for yourself.
And I'm sure you could get that €22 dinner down to €16 if you really wanted to.

OK, so if I eat in McDs on my trip (given that I won't generally have local knowledge about where's good and bad to eat) AND do detailed meal planning that week to make sure that I don't actually buy the lunch and dinner AND I manage the cash flow on the expenses claim to make sure I'm not out of pocket for too long, I just might manage to make a euro or two on the trip. It doesn't really add up to 'generous allowance' does it?


Is that how your expenses work - you deduct an amount for what you would have eaten anyway?

meeeeh

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Lads, you're not even covering the cost of fuel at 12c, let alone wear and tear on tyres and brakes etc.


https://www.theaa.ie/aa/motoring-advice/cost-of-motoring.aspx


You're subsiding your employer if you're driving at this level. The only time I came across anything this low was when the employer was also separately paying a car allowance as part of salary.



I remember the good old days in the private sector of clocking up 75p a mile. If you're letting your employer away with 12c, don't expect others to join you in your race to the bottom.

I'm not advocating 12c per km (and we actually pay ps rates) but since you are so fond of calculations let's have another example. An hour drive from Dublin to Athlone and back and 8 hours working there will net you about 80 Euro in mileage and 33 euro in pocket money. 110 Euro minus actual cost for 10 hours isn't bad. Of course if you need three three course meals in that time then you will be most certainly out of pocket.

Sorry but public servant with a pension and nice holiday allowance whinging how hard it is to get through the day on 40c per km and 33 euros per ten hours is frankly deluded.

Mellor

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

OK, so if I eat in McDs on my trip (given that I won't generally have local knowledge about where's good and bad to eat) AND do detailed meal planning that week to make sure that I don't actually buy the lunch and dinner AND I manage the cash flow on the expenses claim to make sure I'm not out of pocket for too long, I just might manage to make a euro or two on the trip. It doesn't really add up to 'generous allowance' does it?

Expense allowances aren't bonuses, they are there to cover your expenses. I'm simply replying to your complaint that they won't stretch to your 22euro dinners.
If you already bought food for that day, eat it a different day, or bring it with you. Pretty simple. I wouldn't class that as "detailed food planning".

Is that how your expenses work - you deduct an amount for what you would have eaten anyway?

I didn't deduct anything from the expense. I used the numbers you gave, claiming the full 33 euro allowance.
You said going over the allowance on the road leaves you out of pocket. I was point out that's not actually true as the alternative isn't nil-cost. And on the numbers you gave, it was the cheaper option.
If you want to maximise your pseudo-profit, you could easily stick to the 33 allowance. The maths involved isn't complicated tbh.

AulWan

How is any of this bitching about public service rates helping the OP?

To be quite blunt about it, if someone comes out a bit ahead after being away from their family either overnight, or for a longer then normal day, then they deserve it.

I don't have to travel for work myself, but I have colleagues who regularly leave home at 5am to attend meetings the other side of the country and then theydon't get home until well after their kids are in bed or even overnight. Which impacts on their partner too.

If they make 50 quid extra for that, then good.

meeeeh

AulWan wrote: »

How is any of this bitching about public service rates helping the OP?

To be quite blunt about it, if someone comes out a bit ahead after being away from their family either overnight, or for a longer then normal day, then they deserve it.

I don't have to travel for work myself, but I have colleagues who regularly leave home at 5am to attend meetings the other side of the country and then theydon't get home until well after their kids are in bed or even overnight. Which impacts on their partner too.

If they make 50 quid extra for that, then good.

I know exactly how it impacts their life. This week oh wasn't home before 8 any of the days and around 11 twice. That's not unusual and he is not home before 8 most of the days. It's not begrudgery but I know exactly how much we have to sell and produce to pay wages, subsistence and taxes. 40c per km is not bad for mileage and most of the time 33 euro will cover cost of meals and a bit more. Your colleagues get paid for their work, they are not entitled to extra tax free income.

AndrewJRenko

meeeeh wrote: »

I'm not advocating 12c per km (and we actually pay ps rates) but since you are so fond of calculations let's have another example. An hour drive from Dublin to Athlone and back and 8 hours working there will net you about 80 Euro in mileage and 33 euro in pocket money. 110 Euro minus actual cost for 10 hours isn't bad. Of course if you need three three course meals in that time then you will be most certainly out of pocket.

The most likely outcome of a trip to Athlone is that you'll get the €29 return train fare. Unless there is a particular reason to take a private car, like arriving before the first train or carrying equipment, then you wont get mileage for it. If your trip is 9 hours 55 minutes, you'll get the glamorous sum of €16 to cover your grub for the day. If you go over the ten hours, you'll get the €33 all right. Your conclusion is fairly accurate in my experience. If you need three meals, you'll be out of pocket. If you get away with two meals, you might be up a fiver or a little more. Hardly 'generous either way.

meeeeh wrote: »

Sorry but public servant with a pension and nice holiday allowance whinging how hard it is to get through the day on 40c per km and 33 euros per ten hours is frankly deluded.

Interesting to see how you have to change the goalposts now to find other issues to pile on, now that the reality of the 'generous €33 for up to 24 hours subsistence has been detailed.

Mellor wrote: »

Expense allowances aren't bonuses, they are there to cover your expenses. I'm simply replying to your complaint that they won't stretch to your 22euro dinners.
If you already bought food for that day, eat it a different day, or bring it with you. Pretty simple. I wouldn't class that as "detailed food planning".

I didn't deduct anything from the expense. I used the numbers you gave, claiming the full 33 euro allowance.
You said going over the allowance on the road leaves you out of pocket. I was point out that's not actually true as the alternative isn't nil-cost. And on the numbers you gave, it was the cheaper option.

Interesting to see how you avoid answering the question about your own expenses, and whether anything is deducted for the cost of the food you would have eaten anyway. And yes, you might be able to eat it a different day. Or it might be gone off, or in the bin by then - another little extra hidden cost that needs to be covered by the 'generous €33 per day.

meeeeh

It's not up to 24. If you stay overnight you will get overnight allowance. If you work extra hours next day you will get day allowance too. Subsistence is not income, it's to cover the cost of travel and it's fairly easy to do it at these rates. I can tell you it's almost always cheaper if we cover actual cost of hotel and meals than if we pay flat rate.

AulWan

meeeeh wrote: »

It's not begrudgery.

:rolleyes:

TimeToShine

In the UK at least a lot of people prefer to pay themselves using their personal credit cards and then get reimbursed by the company. A lot of credit card rewards to be earned if you travel regularly whereas with a company card you miss out on all of that.

meeeeh

meeeeh wrote: »

You can be on a high horse about it all you want but the fact is if your cash flow is so tight 1000 Euros affects your ability to live despite working full time then that means you have more serious issues.

FFS.

meeeeh

AulWan wrote: »

:rolleyes:

You don't pay subsistence I do. It's easy to be generous with someone else money.

AulWan

meeeeh wrote: »

You don't pay subsistence I do. It's easy to be generous with someone else money.

I am taxpayer so its as much "my" money, as it is yours.

What about the extra hours spent away from home?

Take Athlone as the example you gave. If I had to travel from my home to Athlone for a work meeting, I'd have to leave home at least 90 minutes / 2 hours earlier then my normal time and I can reasonably expect my return home to be delayed by the same amount.

That's up to four extra hours on my work day. I don't know about you, but my time isn't donated for free, and given my current hourly rate of pay, mileage wouldn't compensate for that.

Lackadaisical

I'd this problem myself when I was in my 20s and in my first serious job in large Irish company. A line manager was expecting me to buy all sorts of things (including items of furniture costing hundreds of Euro at one stage) on my personal cards and then claim it back at the end of the month.

I was sent to an event and had no money in my current account and couldn't pay for some items and she screamed blue murder at me over the phone and in a meeting calling me 'incompetent' amongst other things. I ended up reluctantly going to HR (I was a bit of a moron and was going to just take it on the chin). She wasn't our manager a few days later.

biZrb

krissovo wrote: »

No matter how well you budget there are months where the payment back from your expenses are delayed or an exceptional month where expenses are higher than normal.

I think people aren't grasping this point. Not all expenses are paid on time for numerous reasons. Some companies require you to get them physically signed off and to submit paper receipts, if you aren't in the office to hand in those receipts and get whoever it is to sign off on them to do so, you can miss the expenses deadline. When traveling frequently it can be hard to manage your money and knowing exactly how much you can spend as your monthly income is different each month as expenses are different each month.
Travelling for work in general is awful, like others have said you end up working more and traveling to/from places at the weekends and you don't get that time in lieu.

meeeeh

AulWan wrote: »

I am taxpayer so its as much "my" money, as it is yours.

What about the extra hours spent away from home?

Take Athlone as the example you gave. If I had to travel from my home to Athlone for a work meeting, I'd have to leave home at least 90 minutes / 2 hours earlier then my normal time and I can reasonably expect my return home to be delayed by the same amount.

That's up to four extra hours on my work day. I don't know about you, but my time isn't donated for free, and given my current hourly rate of pay, mileage wouldn't compensate for that.

Mileage isn't there to compensate for that. If your employer doesn't want to pay you extra hours you spend on road working it's completely different issue but you are not entitled to tax free extras just because you are traveling.

AndrewJRenko

meeeeh wrote: »

It's not up to 24. If you stay overnight you will get overnight allowance. If you work extra hours next day you will get day allowance too. Subsistence is not income, it's to cover the cost of travel and it's fairly easy to do it at these rates. I can tell you it's almost always cheaper if we cover actual cost of hotel and meals than if we pay flat rate.

It literally is the subsistence allowance for up to 24 hours. Though that's rarely the case. My real point is that if you do a 16 or 18 hour day, not unusual if you do a return trip say to Sligo or Donegal, then you're still on your €33. A couple of coffees or maybe even the extravagance of a glass of wine on the return journey with a colleague (something that for me I wouldn't be drinking at home on a weeknight), and you're even more out of pocket.


You might pay out less then paying flat rate, but you're also paying for the time for people to collate, submit, review and approve each individual receipt for each individual meal - which is why the flat rate payment makes perfect financial sense. Almost any organisation that has people on the road full time, like sales reps, will pay flat rate.

meeeeh

I'm well aware that flat rate makes sense my point is it's not miserable but it's there to pay for cost that's why it's not taxed. Not to give you some extra spending money. And frankly a glass of wine on the way back especially if you are driving is not what subsistence is for.

AndrewJRenko

meeeeh wrote: »

I'm well aware that flat rate makes sense my point is it's not miserable but it's there to pay for cost that's why it's not taxed. Not to give you some extra spending money. And frankly a glass of wine on the way back especially if you are driving is not what subsistence is for.

I never said it was 'miserable'. I said it was 'not generous'. And it's not.

Stheno

I've worked in places that did flat rate, places that had specific rates and now have a company card which all expenses get put on in advance, the company pay it in full each month and I reconcile my expenses against what's on the card.

Means never having to worry about travelling for work.

We also get time in lieu if we travel out of hours

AulWan

meeeeh wrote: »

Mileage isn't there to compensate for that. If your employer doesn't want to pay you extra hours you spend on road working it's completely different issue but you are not entitled to tax free extras just because you are traveling.

I'm very glad I don't work for you. Not only do you begrudge mileage, you obviously don't think there should be any monetary compensation for extra long days either. Jeez.

I wouldn't be long about handing in my notice and seeking alternative employment with an employer like that.

glomar

my company sorta issues credit cards . . they get you an american express ( who the hell takes this ! )
problem is while they do pay card off each month assuming every transaction is itemized , if for whatever reason they dont agree .. as the card is in your name and not the companies you stuck it it .. pretty stingy in my opinion

killbillvol2

AulWan wrote: »

I'm very glad I don't work for you. Not only do you begrudge mileage, you obviously don't think there should be any monetary compensation for extra long days either. Jeez.

I wouldn't be long about handing in my notice and seeking alternative employment with an employer like that.

I find it highly unlikely that he/she is an employer.

meeeeh

AulWan wrote: »

I'm very glad I don't work for you. Not only do you begrudge mileage, you obviously don't think there should be any monetary compensation for extra long days either. Jeez.

I wouldn't be long about handing in my notice and seeking alternative employment with an employer like that.

We pay travel as any other work and overtime rates for anything over 8 hours. That has nothing to do with travel subsistence. Considering we do require our employees to be able to understand basic concepts you are in no danger of ever working for us.

Just to be clear at what we do we charge for travel and we pay for travel. Commission type jobs or jobs where salary is agreed might have different arrangements that's why I don't like generalising. Wages are something completely separate from expenses.

AulWan

So if this is true you actually pay more then PS rates (which you earlier claimed you pay) yet you're moaning that PS rates are too much? >_>

I don't get what your problem is really, other then someone who just likes to moan about anything and everything to do with the public service just because its public service. I know that concept all too well.

OP, this thread has gone miles off topic, I hope your husband gets something sorted out.

Mellor

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Interesting to see how you avoid answering the question about your own expenses, and whether anything is deducted for the cost of the food you would have eaten anyway. And yes, you might be able to eat it a different day. Or it might be gone off, or in the bin by then - another little extra hidden cost that needs to be covered by the 'generous €33 per day.

Avoided answering the question??
It's right there in my last post.

Mellor wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote:

Is that how your expenses work - you deduct an amount for what you would have eaten anyway?

I didn't deduct anything from the expense. I used the numbers you gave, claiming the full 33 euro allowance.
You said going over the allowance on the road leaves you out of pocket. I was point out that's not actually true as the alternative isn't nil-cost. And on the numbers you gave, it was the cheaper option.
If you want to maximise your pseudo-profit, you could easily stick to the 33 allowance. The maths involved isn't complicated tbh.

You might want to work on the reading comprehension along with the arithmetic.

Mellor

AulWan wrote: »

I'm very glad I don't work for you. Not only do you begrudge mileage, you obviously don't think there should be any monetary compensation for extra long days either.

I wouldn't be long about handing in my notice and seeking alternative employment with an employer like that.

They should be compensated with overtime or time in lieu for long days including travel, and overnight pay for overnight work. Not by accepting expenses and mileages as compensation.
For example, PS workers get an €147 overnight rate (€180/day inc the €33 meal allowance)

I'm aware that some people treat expenses and allowances as bonus pay because they lack other compensation. The issue there is the lack of other compensation.

wench

Mellor wrote: »

For example, PS workers get an €147 overnight rate (€180/day inc the €33 meal allowance)

The 147 replaces the 33, you don't get both.
To get 180 would require you to be gone for two days (ie over 34 hours).

Mellor

wench wrote: »

The 147 replaces the 33, you don't get both.
To get 180 would require you to be gone for two days (ie over 34 hours).

Thanks for clarifying (I’m not PS). It did seem relatively high compared to the day rate. Would you get the half day rate from 29 hours?