The eBike thread

kiely182

I've bought a 52v kit from the youtuber Andy kirby for 900euro I've done nearly 4000miles on it since April.only problem I've had is a few broken spokes. Battery is still going strong with no noticeable degradation

unkel

Yeah I watch all his stuff, subscribed to his channel. Really like him and the music in his vids is a step up from the pack. And he produces that music himself. I've linked to him once or twice in this thread already.

Not cheap his kits though. GBP739 for a kit with a really cheap direct drive motor wheel, but it has a programmable controller and in fairness a hefty 52V 17Ah (880Wh) battery

Linky

unkel

eBike sold. What's next?

unkel

Right. After watching this:

linky


I'm sold. I'm going to get a fat bike. And think about electrification later

Any recommendations? New or second hand, what size frame and tyres would be best for me (a bit over 6'1, a bit under 100kg)?

unkel

How about



Linky

unkel

unkel wrote: »

How about



Linky

For a road bike ? unless doing a lot of off road I wouldn't bother, wheels too thick too, I like to pedal a lot and the tyres would greatly increase resistance.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

For a road bike ? unless doing a lot of off road I wouldn't bother, wheels too thick too, I like to pedal a lot and the tyres would greatly increase resistance.

I'd say I'm going to take it off road :cool:

Used to do a good bit of hiking in Wicklow, would love to do same on a bike. Here's hoping I can get both bike and dog into Ioniq

krissovo

$100 for this fat boy right now, I ordered one for the craic so hopefully it will fit in my boot.

https://engwebrand.com/?fbclid=IwAR1_e9qi-yZBEXEAmmR-Aeew-Vej4Y4-bFGHfh8yIGS-tWDkpxkR0C6U7kA

unkel

There's one of those on adverts.ie, saw it last night

That price can't be right though, it's ridiculous! Ordered one anyway, thanks for the heads up, krissovo! €91 for an eBike with free shipping to Ireland :eek:

That's a mad price, let me know how it turns out.

Lumen

Fat bikes are bloody slow under human power, compared to a decent MTB.

Would definitely want electric assist.

unkel

Lumen wrote: »

Would definitely want electric assist.

Of course. Did you check the thread title?

Lumen

Lumen wrote: »

Fat bikes are bloody slow under human power, compared to a decent MTB.

Would definitely want electric assist.

Yes, that and small wheels, on the + small wheels provide more torque and are a lot easier on the motor.

SlowBlowin

I often say "how can they make it for that" when looking at Chinese products, but this takes the biscuit.

I am just too sceptical to believe in this deal. It must be cheaper for them just to re-purpose the battery and bits ?

That said I cant really see how its a scam ? Interestingly if you go to their main site at https://engwe-bikes.com/ they are all sold out, looks like they are out of business.

HOLD ON !!!!!!!!!! WARNING SIGNS - I think it might be a scam. A whois on the domain (https://engwebrand.com/) shows its was registered 2 days ago.... Am I just worrying too much ?

There's an Old saying, "if it sounds too good to be true , it must be".

Hopefully not the case here, don't want to see anyone get ripped off.

unkel

You're probably right. This really is far too good to be true. Not to worry though, pay with PayPal and you will get your money back (eventually)

unkel

unkel wrote: »

You're probably right. This really is far too good to be true. Not to worry though, pay with PayPal and you will get your money back (eventually)

You will if paypal themselves pay you back ? if it's a scam the money is unlikely to come from the seller ?

SlowBlowin

Interesting that they have 119 five star reviews, people happy with their bikes having received them, yet the domain was only registered 2 days ago. Also note that the reviews are not real, there is no third party involved, it is just text on the web page.

SlowBlowin

This is on the order page:

"full refund if you dont recive your order
full of partial refund, if item is not as described"

SlowBlowin

WOW imagine getting away with this refund policy, again taken from the order page, note the email address. !

Refund policy
Returns
Our policy lasts 30 days. If 30 days have gone by since your purchase, unfortunately we can’t offer you a refund or exchange.

To be eligible for a return, your item must be unused and in the same condition that you received it. It must also be in the original packaging.

Several types of goods are exempt from being returned. Perishable goods such as food, flowers, newspapers or magazines cannot be returned. We also do not accept products that are intimate or sanitary goods, hazardous materials, or flammable liquids or gases.

Additional non-returnable items:
- Gift cards
- Downloadable software products
- Some health and personal care items

To complete your return, we require a receipt or proof of purchase.
Please do not send your purchase back to the manufacturer.

There are certain situations where only partial refunds are granted (if applicable)
- Book with obvious signs of use
- CD, DVD, VHS tape, software, video game, cassette tape, or vinyl record that has been opened
- Any item not in its original condition, is damaged or missing parts for reasons not due to our error
- Any item that is returned more than 30 days after delivery

Refunds (if applicable)
Once your return is received and inspected, we will send you an email to notify you that we have received your returned item. We will also notify you of the approval or rejection of your refund.
If you are approved, then your refund will be processed, and a credit will automatically be applied to your credit card or original method of payment, within a certain amount of days.

Late or missing refunds (if applicable)
If you haven’t received a refund yet, first check your bank account again.
Then contact your credit card company, it may take some time before your refund is officially posted.
Next contact your bank. There is often some processing time before a refund is posted.
If you’ve done all of this and you still have not received your refund yet, please contact us at engwebrand@outlook.com.

krissovo

They have been trading on Alibaba, wish & gearbest for a while now so hopefully will be ok. I have had nothing but good experiences with Paypal so I am not worried for the sake of $100.

Here is the same bike on Gearbest https://www.gearbest.com/electric-bikes/pp_3007614361945584.html?wid=2000001

EDIT: Just had a look at the site again and got loads of pop up's ....... Lennod from Dublin, Colm from Cork, Danny from Tipperary have just ordered a bike :-)

SlowBlowin

krissovo wrote: »

They have been trading on Alibaba, wish & gearbest for a while now so hopefully will be ok. I have had nothing but good experiences with Paypal so I am not worried for the sake of $100.

Here is the same bike on Gearbest https://www.gearbest.com/electric-bikes/pp_3007614361945584.html?wid=2000001

EDIT: Just had a look at the site again and got loads of pop up's ....... Lennod from Dublin, Colm from Cork, Danny from Tipperary have just ordered a bike :-)

I think you are talking about Engwe NOT Engwebrand.

Totally different.

If I set up BMW-Brand.com, then offer BMWs for a grand, the fact that that people have had great previous experiences with BMW direct is irrelevant....

EDIT: Can you send me the link where you see these pop ups so I can check, I must be looking in the wrong place.

SlowBlowin

Now what is much more impressive is that they will offer the same bike, same price, shipped free of charge to Saint Helena in the South Atlantic ! Thats all from drop downs on the order page...

So they offer a 500 watt ebike, shipped in 7 days by UPS airfreight, to one of the most remote islands in the world, for $98.31.

Its a scam.

Course it's a scam, the fecking motor alone would cost more than 100 Dollars.

SlowBlowin

Back on topic, in a hypothetical world where throttles were allowed, what do you prefer thumb or twist ? I have only ever used a thumb throttle, and wonder if a twist would be better.

So for those who have tried both what do you prefer ?

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

Course it's a scam, the fecking motor alone would cost more than 100 Dollars.

Hardly. I just bought a higher spec motor that cost far less than that, including shipping from China.

And you don't get "overstock" situations. I bought Samsung hoover board battery packs with BMS included that cost less per cell than the cheapest dodgiest Chinese 18650s you can find. Cheaper to sell as is than dismantle them and sell the parts. That's pretty much the definition of "overstock"

That said, this probably is a scam alright

SlowBlowin

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Back on topic, in a hypothetical world where throttles were allowed, what do you prefer thumb or twist ? I have only ever used a thumb throttle, and wonder if a twist would be better.

So for those who have tried both what do you prefer ?

I have tried both and without doubt, thumb is my preference.

The problem with twist throttle is that your hand is always "on the throttle" and I find it much smoother to be able to grip the handlebars and just use the throttle when I need with my thumb.

Twist is just much more awkward, to me at least.

SlowBlowin

To keep this thread about eBikes I started another thread about the bike website earlier:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058025691

I also sent an email to both the real and "fake" Engwe website contacts. I asked the manufacturer if the other site was a scam, and asked the "scam" site contact what cells were in the battery.

SlowBlowin

Deleted User wrote: »

I have tried both and without doubt, thumb is my preference.

The problem with twist throttle is that your hand is always "on the throttle" and I find it much smoother to be able to grip the handlebars and just use the throttle when I need with my thumb.

Twist is just much more awkward, to me at least.

I had heard that from several people elsewhere, including Andy Kirby, so that is good enough for me, hypothetically !

unkel

So, back to my fat bike then. How would you guys motor it if indeed I will take it off road and need quite a bit of assist anyway as it is an inefficient bike and it has to carry me up a hill, without too much manual labour?

Go front and rear geared hub motors like this mad fat bike? I like this idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecs9oTg7NAY

Either that or get a big powe direct drive motor for the rear wheel and just make sure I have enough power in my battery at all times? I also reasonably like this idea.

Mid drive is too expensive and I can't see much benefit, so I've ruled that out. Or is that a mistake?

Lumen

That ^^ is not what I would call a "fat bike". To me, a "fat bike" is a bike which substitutes enormous tyres for suspension. If you're going to have suspension, why would you bother with balloon tyres?

Anyway, that particular design bothers me because the hub motors create a lot of unsprung mass for the suspension to deal with.

Are you sure you don't just want an e-MTB?

unkel

No, you're quite right. I only showed that vid because it has 2 wheel drive geared hub motors. I will get a no suspension fat bike. And I will electrify it myself.

unkel

Got my LiitoKala capacity tester / charger and my 58.8V lithium charger in the post today.

Running my first capacity test on 4 cells from the pack from my old eBike that I demolished. 3 years old and well used for a heavy daily commute and even longer weekend trips.

Nearly half way through the first test and not looking great



Which would suggest a capacity of about 1300-1400mAh? Have to wait till the end of the test, but that would be disappointing. If that's all I'm getting, I'll consider dumping the lot and the vruzend kits and I'll just buy the LiFePo4 that Mad_Lad suggested.

black forest

Aaah....wait. The normal test can take up to 5 hours.

Looks like your batteries are still strong. The inner resistance is quite ok. These batteries had only 2.200mAh anyway when new. Trust me, i’ve the same LiitoKala since two years but i am using these batteries...

https://www.nkon.nl/de/rechargeable/18650-size/samsung-18650-inr18650-25r.html

...for vaping.


I can highly recommend this shop. All my batteries are ordered there and sent to Germany for around 6€. Don’t know how much it would be to IRE. But have a look at the prices for 10 or more batteries.

And they are genuine.

unkel

Good man!

black forest wrote: »

These batteries had only 2.200mAh anyway when new.

Because the label says 22P? I guess so! Makes sense. It was a 10S4P pack I think, and was advertised as 8.8Ah, so indeed 2.2Ah per cell

black forest wrote: »

But have a look at the prices for 10 or more batteries.

But have a look at the price of 10 or more smokes (only kidding, those prices look great. I have seen that site recommended before)

You off the fags long? I'm off them nearly 13 years after being on them 20 years. There was no vaping when I gave them up, otherwise I'd probably still be vaping now.

unkel

Test finished. 1798mAh best of the four. Not too bad. I guess my next job is to mark their capacity individually with permanent marker and line up the next 4 cells for testing...

SlowBlowin

Coming back to the SCAM briefly, this now has been confirmed as a scam by Engwe so if you have ordered from that site you need to start the refund proces with your credit card company or paypal.

"Dear xxxxx,
Thanks for telling us, we have received several emails about this problem in these two days.
It must be a scam, and this site is not ours, we never authorize the other ones to sell our ebike on shopify or any other website.
We are going to complain this event to shopify to stop their activity.
Best regards,
Ning"

The original website is now gone, presumably they made a pile of cash !

Unkel, just save the time and hassle and get the LiPO not (LiFeP04) I suggested, it's not expensive and it will give you all the power you need and that's not even beginning to break a sweat, it will be so much easier than playing around with 18650s, forget about BMS and all that shenanigans because if the BMS fails then you could be in trouble.

Yes there is more of an initial investment, you have to buy and RC Balance + Power supply if the charger has none built in, mostly they don't. But once you have the charger you have it and you will make good use of it, then when you're more experienced and you know how to handle the batteries without a BMS you can get a Li charger set to the max series voltage you want, for instance , if you have 14S LiPO , charging to 4.15 max per cell, 4.2 is max for LiPo but it helps to charge them a bit less, then your total hot off the charger voltage will be 58.1 volts and about 53 volts nominal. So you can get a LiPo charger that charges to 58.1 volts and shuts off. This is called bulk charging and means that "IF" your cells are in balance , or , very close you will not have to split your pack up to parallel charge on the balance charger. usually the cells don't go out of balance much if you don't bring the pack voltage down low.

If you want to do trails then your mid drive is especially suited to this type of riding and it's easier on the battery, if you do go with mid drive eventually you can get a matching battery that easily mounts on the bike.

Dual hubs is fine but you will find it awkward, a mid drive is more centre balanced and feels a lot better on the road particularly on trails but hubs can heat up particularly fast on slow steep trails and especially geared hubs because they are usually smaller and can't dissipate heat as good as a direct drive hub.

black forest

unkel wrote: »

But have a look at the price of 10 or more smokes (only kidding, those prices look great. I have seen that site recommended before)

You off the fags long? I'm off them nearly 13 years after being on them 20 years. There was no vaping when I gave them up, otherwise I'd probably still be vaping now.

Stopped smoking five years ago nearly overnight after decades with 40 fags a day. Since one year i am vaping without nicotine just for the fun and the taste...and a bit as a habit.😄

Saved my life and made me taking on cycling. Lost 18 kilos last year but need to expand my range to use the bike as main transport. Which brought me to ebikes and this thread. So i hope to find a cheap diy solution for the untalented average noob. As a vaper i am used to order from Gearbest and the rest of the bunch.


Back to topic: nikon.nl is a reliable shop in the Netherlands. For small money they even weld your battery packs together as you like them. They have chargers for ebikes as well.

https://eu.nkon.nl/charger/bikebattery.html

Another good shop but not so cheap is Akkuteile in Germany. Very reliable and fast. They have LiFePo batteries as well.

https://www.akkuteile.de/

If mooch is the pope of all batteries then the mountainprophet is the guru...at least in Germany. He has his own page and forum. I just put up a few links to scroll through...

For translation.... https://www.deepl.com/en/translator

https://m.facebook.com/batterymooch/posts/here-are-the-links-to-all-my-test-reports-ratings-tables-blog-articles-and-answe/1802731556683089/

https://moochreviews.com/category/18650-bench-test-results/

http://www.mountainprophet.de/

http://www.mountainprophet.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=166


...and a complete test of the Liitokala in english:

http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review%20Charger%20LiitoKala%20Lii-500%20UK.html


Lots of stuff...have fun.:pac:


P.s. my (till now) not electrified ride.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

Unkel, just save the time and hassle and get the LiPO not (LiFeP04) I suggested, it's not expensive and it will give you all the power you need and that's not even beginning to break a sweat, it will be so much easier than playing around with 18650s, forget about BMS and all that shenanigans because if the BMS fails then you could be in trouble.

Yes there is more of an initial investment, you have to buy and RC Balance + Power supply if the charger has none built in, mostly they don't. But once you have the charger you have it and you will make good use of it, then when you're more experienced and you know how to handle the batteries without a BMS you can get a Li charger set to the max series voltage you want, for instance , if you have 14S LiPO , charging to 4.15 max per cell, 4.2 is max for LiPo but it helps to charge them a bit less, then your total hot off the charger voltage will be 58.1 volts and about 53 volts nominal. So you can get a LiPo charger that charges to 58.1 volts and shuts off. This is called bulk charging and means that "IF" your cells are in balance , or , very close you will not have to split your pack up to parallel charge on the balance charger. usually the cells don't go out of balance much if you don't bring the pack voltage down low.

You have me convinced already. But all these things electric and renewable are a hobby now (much more to it than just eBikes) and I want to get a broad experience, so I'm in this phase now of building a decent 18650 pack from free cells I got from dead laptop batteries and a near death eBike battery. Doing the proper testing for internal resistance and capacity, best possible matching of the parallel groups and the actual lego like build with the vruzend kit. It's fun!

I'd say there is a very good chance I will turn to those high discharge LiPo packs next time around

Deleted User wrote: »

If you want to do trails then your mid drive is especially suited to this type of riding and it's easier on the battery, if you do go with mid drive eventually you can get a matching battery that easily mounts on the bike.

Dual hubs is fine but you will find it awkward, a mid drive is more centre balanced and feels a lot better on the road particularly on trails but hubs can heat up particularly fast on slow steep trails and especially geared hubs because they are usually smaller and can't dissipate heat as good as a direct drive hub.

Just so I can make a fair comparison. What exact mid drive kit would you recommend (with links and a price) for a fat bike?

I've just done a bit of googling and even a normally cheap direct drive conversion kit isn't that cheap for a fat bike. This is about the best I can find at GBP240 including shipping for a wheel only with a 1500W motor:

Linky

unkel

unkel wrote: »

Just so I can make a fair comparison. What exact mid drive kit would you recommend (with links and a price) for a fat bike?

I've just done a bit of googling and even a normally cheap direct drive conversion kit isn't that cheap for a fat bike. This is about the best I can find at GBP240 including shipping for a wheel only with a 1500W motor:

Linky

I don't know what make and model that motor is, but it looks like it should take 52 volts and 50+ amps battery power = 2.6 Kw, I'd say even 3 Kw would be possible for short bursts.

Hubs just don't like steep slow trails because they need to spin fast, geared hubs spin faster and are more efficient but they're usually smaller and heat up faster and can't dissipate as much heat, you can however add some oil which really helps dissipate the heat, you can go to endless-sphere to find out which oil to use.

Large hubs are exactly that, large and heavy and cumbersome on slow steep trails.

You need a big ass hub that is wound more for torque, this will heat up less at slow speeds and then just add more voltage for the speed you want but it will be hard to determine this because we don't know what make and model the motor is.

LiPo territory for sure, you just need to think in the beginning what config battery you want and try get as much as you can afford rather than add more LiPo in the future because it's better to keep it all the same age, but the beauty is that you can easy configure it for the kit that you have.

Your controller, you will need to find a 50 or 60 amp controller, or solder the shunt in a 40 amp controller, the configurable Infineon controller can be got in 30, 40 and 60 amp, you can then use the software to configure that to your kit, limit speed, current ( torque ) acceleration and most important with LiPo and no BMS your cut off voltage which should be no less than about 3.6 volts per cell x the number of cells and don't mount the controller in a bag , keep it where air can flow around it.

Back to mid drive, this is the best option really for trails, much smaller lighter motor that can give you all the torque you need in every gear keeping the motor happy by changing to a lower gear, you can't do that with a bub and it will mean less demand on the battery and centre mounted for better stability.

The Bafang BBSHD isn't cheap but you could also buy one of the matching batteries that you can buy with the kit that is easy mount securely on the bike, has the BMS and all of that but it's not going to be cheap however, it's all you will ever need and you don't need to mess with torque arms which will be absolutely essential when you run more than 1 Kw of power even at that you should be using at least 1 but 2 are essential if running big power.

I cooked a Hub Motor going up mount leinster, I was running about 3 Kw most of the way and it got me there but it cooked and the smell of it the whole way home in the car was unreal , it was still pretty warm by the time I got home lol.

Then I went up on the Bosch bike running 500-700 watts , chain drive and only 50 Nm of torque, boy , it was tough , but I did it peddling like a mad lad lol. It was a lot harder than going up with 3 Kw but to be honest most of that power was wasted in heat so what the motor was putting out is anyone's guess.

The point I'm making is that mid drives for this kind of riding are just much more suitable and efficient.

I could have used a much higher powered motor, rated for 3 Kw but that would have been huge. Basically a scooter motor in a bicycle rim.

EM3EV also sells big hubs, this is 8.9 Kg and provided 150 Nm of torque, he says 72 volts so that must mean a 40 amp controller, it's a 17 inch rim or 19 inch. That would be nice , 150 Nm and probably not heat up much at all.

https://em3ev.com/shop/3kw-rear-direct-drive-hub-motor/#parentHorizontalTab1

The BBSHD mid motor rated at 1500 watts weighs 6 Kg and will provide an amazing 160 Nm of torque , ( in any gear )

The BBS02 rated for 750 watts but actually provides around 1 Kw max and weighs less. 4.6 Kg and about 120 Nm of torque, that would probably be plenty.

Remember, smaller wheels provide greater torque and much less stress on the motor, just go to the ebikes.ca motor simulator and play around with different wheel sizes. Smaller wheel diameter = more torque less speed and the opposite for larger rims such as bicycle whee size.

Mid drive is best for hills and trails.

Go to 5:18

BarryM

Jaysus, what is that godawful grinding noise?

Impressive climb, what sort of umph does he have?

BarryM

BarryM wrote: »

Jaysus, what is that godawful grinding noise?

Impressive climb, what sort of umph does he have?

It has 160 Nm of torque, that's a lot and unlike a hub motor , it's available in every gear.

The top of the rang Bosch ebike motor has about 75 Nm, one of the best commercial motors called Brose, made in Berlin has around 110 Nm from a remarkably compact setup. Brose can be found on the German brand bikes called Haibike.

I don't hear a grinding noise ? the mic is picking up a lot of weird noises but chain drive motors are not silent, neither is a hub motor.

You need a big ass heavy bulky hub motor to provide that kind of torque + a lot more power and probably a small diameter wheel, the chain drive can fit any bike easily and provides a lot of power and efficiency in a much smaller lighter package.

unkel

Ok, Mad_Lad. I'll go with your damn mid motor kit

Looks like the Bafang BBS02B 750W would be best suited (and not as eyewateringly expensive as the BBSHD). It comes with a 25A controller, and I presume it is fine to connect a 52V batttery to it (58.8V off the charger) for a peak output of 58.8*25 = 1.5kW?

The P750C looks like the nicest display (I want to see speed, watts produced and battery voltage) and I presume 44 teeth is ok

My preferred seller would be Amazon, for their free return service and pretty much no quibble full refund should something go wrong

Linky GBP391 (EUR451) shipped from German warehouse, so no tax / duties like when the part comes from China

I can get the exact same kit from eBay as well, slightly cheaper at EUR420. Also shipped from Germany, so no duty / VAT

Linky

And it looks like your preferred supplier, EM3EV is out, as they are far more expensive, it has to come from the far east, which takes a long time, and I risk having to pay duty and VAT. Is there any where else better / cheaper than above that I might have missed?

What tools do I need to take the bottom bracket off and fit this? A link to amazon.co.uk would be great!

unkel

hmmmmm

From the small print: "This encompasses the vast majority of bikes excluding some newer high end bikes with an Integrated Bottom Bracket, and Fat tire Bikes with a 100mm wide bottom bracket shell"

So, I will have to go with the Bafang BBSHD then to fit it to a 100mm wide bottom bracket that are used on fat bikes?

unkel

unkel wrote: »

hmmmmm

From the small print: "This encompasses the vast majority of bikes excluding some newer high end bikes with an Integrated Bottom Bracket, and Fat tire Bikes with a 100mm wide bottom bracket shell"

So, I will have to go with the Bafang BBSHD then to fit it to a 100mm wide bottom bracket that are used on fat bikes?

No Idea , do you really need a fat bike ? :-)

You might get more info here and also info on the tool needed.

https://em3ev.com/shop/bafang-48v-750w-bbs02-kit/

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

do you really need a fat bike ? :-)

Nobody needs anything fancy, we'd all survive on bread & water

But yes, I do really want a fat bike, so if going for a Bafang mid drive, I would need the BBSHD. Which is a lot of money, especially from that EM3EV site. I'm sure they are a good crowd with good support, but they ship from the far east so it will take long to get here and will likely attract a big bill for customs and VAT. On top of their prices which aren't very competitive to start with.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

https://em3ev.com/shop/bafang-48v-750w-bbs02-kit/

Interestingly they do have 100mm as an option for the BBS02 kit. How often have you bought from them, how long did it take for the parts to arrive and were you ever stung for customs / VAT?