The eBike thread

unkel

unkel wrote: »

Interestingly they do have 100mm as an option for the BBS02 kit. How often have you bought from them, how long did it take for the parts to arrive and were you ever stung for customs / VAT?

I bought from Paula couple of times and my kit arrived in about a week and 3 days maybe, I got a mate of mine the same kit about 6 months later and it arrived around the same time.

These days there's a lot more restrictions on batteries so I'm not sure what will happen there if you get a battery from him, he builds his own , he's sound and has great rep on endless-sphere. He also mods some of the kit he sells , it will say it in the description if he has modded it. He has contact with the factories he gets his kits from and makes sure they are built to his spec, basically you're guaranteed a lot more that his kits are better than the average seller out there, there are good sellers but I don't know any, there are too many bad ones so I can only recommend em3ev. It's a long time since I ordered any ebike kit.

You can try endless-sphere and see if anyone there recommends a reliable source to get the BBS02 or BBSHD in Europe, you can be sure someone there will know somewhere.

If you're happy with Amazon that's fine too, but can you be guarnteed the seller is there if something breaks ? are you protected by Amazon and if so for how long ?

If you go the mid drive route I guarntee you won't ever want or need another motor again, it will be the ideal motor and you won't have to mess around buying kits, finding out they're not what you want, you will always want more, better so save yourself the hassle and just get the mid drive if your budget can stretch to that and a good battery to match that you can attach securely to the bike.

You'll have a bike then worth many thousands more than what you paid for it, a lot of the Bosch, Brose equipped ebikes can sell for 5K and up.

Off to bed now, night shift tonight

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

If you're happy with Amazon that's fine too, but can you be guarnteed the seller is there if something breaks ? are you protected by Amazon and if so for how long ?

Oh yes. Their customer service is legendary. I have sent so many things back it's unreal. Even after more than a year, more than 2 years sometimes. They email you a label, you print the label out, stick it on the item and bring it to the post office, for a free return. I've had my Amazon account credited back in full that same day a few times, they are extremely efficient!

Even for graphics cards that had been running for well over a year 24/7/365 overclocked and with a modified BIOS

I feel a bit bad about that, I was taking the p1ss there obviously, but in return Amazon get almost all of my business, they are making a lot of money from me and the owner is now the richest man in the world, I'm sure he doesn't mind

Deleted User wrote: »

If you go the mid drive route I guarntee you won't ever want or need another motor again, it will be the ideal motor and you won't have to mess around buying kits, finding out they're not what you want, you will always want more, better so save yourself the hassle and just get the mid drive if your budget can stretch to that

I'm starting to think like that. The beauty of a mid drive is that you can easily take it out and install on another bike, provided of course the bottom bracket is the same

This hobby hasn't cost me a cent yet, I've sold previous projects for a lot more than I paid for them, which has covered some other purchases like some chargers, connectors, bike stand, lock, battery tester and vruzend kits, etc.

And thinking like that will I forever kick myself going with the BBS02 and not the BBSHD? I'm 100kg and a fat bike is going to be fat (heavy) too.

I won't have anyone build a battery for me. For now I'll go with a 14S4P pack with the vruzend kits, I'm nearly done testing all the free 18650 batteries that I'll use for this. They average about 1750mAh, so this will only be a 7Ah battery, even if I match the parallels perfectly. At 20A and the battery hot off the charger that already means 1.2kW to the motor

Next upgrade then would be the lipo batteries you suggested, which will mean I can put any power to the motor really, several kW no problem. Which again would have a lot less limitation on the BBSHD vs the BBS02, another reason to pick the higher end motor. It is lots of money though. And I haven't even got a fat bike yet. Recommendations?

SlowBlowin

I have just been over to a friends house as he needed some ebike advice.

He has bought an SP866 display (to go with his unbranded controller!) and its reporting an error (E10), when I got there it was wired wrong. I fixed the wiring but it comes up with this error, anyone else any experience with this (cheap ebay) display ?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I bought from Paula couple of times and my kit arrived in about a week and 3 days maybe, I got a mate of mine the same kit about 6 months later and it arrived around the same time.

(

Oops made a boboo, his name is Paul not Paula lol.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

I'm starting to think like that. The beauty of a mid drive is that you can easily take it out and install on another bike, provided of course the bottom bracket is the same

And thinking like that will I forever kick myself going with the BBS02 and not the BBSHD? I'm 100kg and a fat bike is going to be fat (heavy) too.

I don't know, better to have all the power than want it ? the BBS02 is smaller and lighter and it will probably provide you will all the grunt you'll ever need, in fact I know it. It's down to cost and weight and whether you feel the need for 160 Nm of torque that would be real power considering my Bosch has only 50 Nm from 2013, I just really wish I had the time to get out on it again and cycle lanes in the country I could take the Boys.

unkel wrote: »

Next upgrade then would be the lipo batteries you suggested, which will mean I can put any power to the motor really, several kW no problem. Which again would have a lot less limitation on the BBSHD vs the BBS02, another reason to pick the higher end motor. It is lots of money though. And I haven't even got a fat bike yet. Recommendations?

The beauty about the BBSHD is that it only needs 30 amps but I am not sure if that is peak or not, this is important to know for the sake of the batteries. A google search might tell you the peak current of the BBSHD.

A hub motor would need to be huge and heavy + also need much more power to supply 160 Nm and not roast it and with the mid drive you will get this torque in every gear.

I would advide you get the gear sensor which will cut the power to the motor when you change gears this will be much easier on your chain, sprockets etc.

With a mid drive with this much power I would advise carrying a spare chain and tools so you can replace and not be stuck somewhere.

SlowBlowin

SlowBlowin wrote: »

I have just been over to a friends house as he needed some ebike advice.

He has bought an SP866 display (to go with his unbranded controller!) and its reporting an error (E10), when I got there it was wired wrong. I fixed the wiring but it comes up with this error, anyone else any experience with this (cheap ebay) display ?

No , unfortunately can't help there unless he fried it due to incorrect wiring.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

I would advide you get the gear sensor which will cut the power to the motor when you change gears this will be much easier on your chain, sprockets etc.

I had the whole thing configured (including the gear sensor, which is only a few quid) and sitting in my basket at the EM3EV site. Their price of the BBSHD is actually quite good from them

But then adding that to a half decent fat bike and you're talking over €1.5k. I have a shed, but it has no room for a bike really. So the thing would be standing outside most of the time, waiting to be stolen too.

Deleted User wrote: »

With a mid drive with this much power I would advise carrying a spare chain and tools so you can replace and not be stuck somewhere.

When looking at the pros and cons, that is actually a major con. So is the direct drive when you run out of battery. I had the chain go off my geared hub bike and I didn't even bother putting it back on. Got home on the hub motor, while air pedaling

Two independent drive systems. One fails, the other is still working

I think I'm going for a relatively cheap fat bike (second hand if I can), convert it with the hub motor (or two) and should I want to sell it on it won't have cost me anything

There. Decision taken

unkel

unkel wrote: »

I had the whole thing configured (including the gear sensor, which is only a few quid) and sitting in my basket at the EM3EV site. Their price of the BBSHD is actually quite good from them

But then adding that to a half decent fat bike and you're talking over €1.5k. I have a shed, but it has no room for a bike really. So the thing would be standing outside most of the time, waiting to be stolen too.



When looking at the pros and cons, that is actually a major con. So is the direct drive when you run out of battery. I had the chain go off my geared hub bike and I didn't even bother putting it back on. Got home on the hub motor, while air pedaling

Two independent drive systems. One fails, the other is still working

I think I'm going for a relatively cheap fat bike (second hand if I can), convert it with the hub motor (or two) and should I want to sell it on it won't have cost me anything

There. Decision taken

LOl ok so, go with the hubs.

Carrying a spare chain is not a problem. These days it's not difficult to find a chain with a quick fit link.

unkel

While I have your attention (and you're bored on the night shift), I had the following config in my shopping basket. Any comments? I feel the brakes with connector to the controller are a nonsense, surely when you want to brake, you do not have throttle applied? So I didn't pick them. Comment on the display? It is programmable (you can program the controller with it)

BBSHD 1000W (max 1500W) for 100mm bracket USD559
DCP-14 display USD85
throttle USD5
current rating 30A
bling 36T chainweel (smallest there is? / best for climbing?) USD70
gear sensor USD6

Total USD665
Shipping USD87

Total USD752 (EUR677) and start crying when you are caught for customs / VAT

unkel

unkel wrote: »

While I have your attention (and you're bored on the night shift), I had the following config in my shopping basket. Any comments? I feel the brakes with connector to the controller are a nonsense, surely when you want to brake, you do not have throttle applied? So I didn't pick them. Comment on the display? It is programmable (you can program the controller with it)

BBSHD 1000W (max 1500W) for 100mm bracket USD559
DCP-14 display USD85
throttle USD5
current rating 30A
bling 36T chainweel (smallest there is? / best for climbing?) USD70
gear sensor USD6

Total USD665
Shipping USD87

Total USD752 (EUR677) and start crying when you are caught for customs / VAT

Yeah, the smaller chain ring would be good for climbing but will limit your top speed to what I don't know.

These days it's more common to see no 3 chain rings at the crank on bicycles and run a larger chain ring with a sprocket with a lot of gears and maybe a 40 tooth at the rear to give you the same gear range. So you might need to adjust if it has 3 chain rings up front. If you don't intend to pedal a lot then it might be fine.

Brake connection to the controller are there to cut the power to the motor as a safety cut off switch.

Don't forget to upgrade your brakes too, disk brakes are essential, hydraulic too, I opted for 8 inch disks and bought the adaptors, the difference in stopping power was amazing.

Other than that looks good, don't forget any tools you may need.

Looks good if you're prepared to pay the money.

If you go the mid drive route you will be glad you did in the end !

Joe1919

unkel wrote: »

..... I feel the brakes with connector to the controller are a nonsense, surely when you want to brake, you do not have throttle applied?...

Throttle sticking is relatively common for various reasons.e.g water ingress, spring breaking, jamming, intermittent short circuit between +5v and signal etc. My throttle use to frequently stick due to hand grips ends wearing and hand grip creeping up. The brake switches may also be useful as they usually cancel the cruise function if fitted and activated.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't forget to upgrade your brakes too, disk brakes are essential, hydraulic too

Most fat bikes have hydraulic brakes. I want to get a decent bike with a mid motor eventually (because I'm worth it :pac:) but not until I have a bigger / more secure space to store it. I'm looking forward to having a fat bike though. Any tips / recommendations?

Would a GBP260 fatbike from Amazon be really bad? It's going to be heavy, but surely if I cheaply electrify it that problem should be sorted. Why is there such a small market in Ireland for bikes, there is feck all fat bikes on adverts

unkel

Joe1919 wrote: »

Throttle sticking is relatively common for various reasons.e.g water ingress, spring breaking, jamming, intermittent short circuit between +5v and signal etc. My throttle use to frequently stick due to hand grips ends wearing and hand grip creeping up. The brake switches may also be useful as they usually cancel the cruise function if fitted and activated.

That makes sense. That said, even with the throttle fully open, it should be easy enough to stop the bike with the brakes, despite of the motor?

Connected brakes seem more useful to me for use as regen, but this doesn't seem to be widely used in eBikes? Although I have seen it mentioned in some specs of controllers.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

That makes sense. That said, even with the throttle fully open, it should be easy enough to stop the bike with the brakes, despite of the motor?

Connected brakes seem more useful to me for use as regen, but this doesn't seem to be widely used in eBikes? Although I have seen it mentioned in some specs of controllers.

With 160 Nm of torque at the press of the throttle ? eah, no, not a hope.

Upgrade those brakes , standard bike brakes hydraulic or not are mostly not up to the job. some even upgrade to dual piston calipers.

loughside

[IMG]http://<blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="a/j31sncA"><a href="//imgur.com/a/j31sncA"></a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>[/IMG]I started this ebike thing with a cheapish 250w hub chinese folder.
It was handy to throw in the boot of the car and take to the local parks but that was about it, drawbacks were it wasn`t man enough for the hills around here (Co. Down country lanes), and also something which hasn`t been mentioned here is that it was noisy, like those ancient electric milk floats, everybody turned their heads to see what was coming. i done the shunt mod with solder which i have to say helped a lot with performance but drawback was more sound!


My two main objectives with ebikes were torque and silence as far as possible.


Enter the BBS 02 and HD builds.
My first venture was based on one of the old Halfords frames i found on Gumtree, bought for £25 locally. A BBS 02 + Battery conversion was added from this reputable chinese seller (ive dealt with them on a few occasions now) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32484856225.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.2.39b619d8VXk8Zg All new parts fitted with the addition of an Alfine 8 hub/wheel from Taylor Wheels in Germany (£220 iirc), these are really nice on an ebike.


Pics of converted bike + Alfine 8 Hub.


I`ll get to the BBS HD conversion later.... (the rolls-royce!!)

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

With 160 Nm of torque at the press of the throttle ? eah, no, not a hope.

In my setups, I should be able to reach the XT60 connector between battery and controller. Jerk it out and kill the powah! And of course with a geared hub motor or two I don't think there would be much of a problem too. Any idea what torque geared hub motors and direct drive motors have at certain wattages?

I forgot to put that link up to the Amazon fat bike:

Linky


The yellow one is GBP260 and the other colours are GBP450 for some reason

Joe1919

unkel wrote: »

BBSHD 1000W (max 1500W) for 100mm bracket USD559

Total USD665
Shipping USD87

Total USD752 (EUR677) and start crying when you are caught for customs / VAT

I note Yose Power is doing what looks like similar kit ( but 68mm only) at total 495 euro (474+20) including delivery from europe (no customs). Is it the same after that?
https://www.yosepower.com/en/product/Original-BAFANG-48V1000W-Mid-drive-Motor-Conversion-Kit-BBS01-DIY-E-bike-LCD-Display-Black-BBS-HD-172.html

unkel

unkel wrote: »

Most fat bikes have hydraulic brakes. I want to get a decent bike with a mid motor eventually (because I'm worth it :pac:) but not until I have a bigger / more secure space to store it. I'm looking forward to having a fat bike though. Any tips / recommendations?

Would a GBP260 fatbike from Amazon be really bad? It's going to be heavy, but surely if I cheaply electrify it that problem should be sorted. Why is there such a small market in Ireland for bikes, there is feck all fat bikes on adverts

I've no experience with fat bikes so can't give any advice on them.

No proper cycle lanes, closest one to me is 110 Km away.

Cycling on Country roads with Kids can't be done, more and more outrageous speeding as cars get more refined People don't realise the speed they are doing or probably care. Speed vans and Garda checks mostly on main roads and motorways. 80 Km.hr speed limits on roads you have to stop to allow other cars pass, it's a mental Country.

People are addicted to cars, weather is mostly crap.

Where else would you have hedges along every road causing total blindness to oncoming traffic ? the U.K , sure. It's utter madness.

My Local road, 2 cars can just about pass when they slow down , some parts one car has to stop and pull in somewhere, ditch or entrance or reverse and look at the 80 Km/hr limit ? you couldn't make up some of the stuff that goes on on this Island !

Imagine having small Kids on bikes on this road ?

Joe1919

unkel wrote: »

Connected brakes seem more useful to me for use as regen, but this doesn't seem to be widely used in eBikes? Although I have seen it mentioned in some specs of controllers.

Mid drives and geared hubs have inbuilt clutches that act like freewheels, so you cant have regen. You can on direct drive hubs.

loughside

BBS HD conversion... the best motor there is, whisper quiet and can climb telegraph poles
Converted a Whyte Malvern for this one,
BBS HD + 48v 17.5 ah Battery,... probably coming up on £1k for this build.

unkel

Joe1919 wrote: »

I note Yose Power is doing what looks like similar kit ( but 68mm only) at total 495 euro (474+20) including delivery from europe (no customs). Is it the same after that?
https://www.yosepower.com/en/product/Original-BAFANG-48V1000W-Mid-drive-Motor-Conversion-Kit-BBS01-DIY-E-bike-LCD-Display-Black-BBS-HD-172.html

Good price, but the choice is quite rigid, crappy display included, chain ring too big. And of course no 100mm support for fat bikes.

unkel

Joe1919 wrote: »

Mid drives and geared hubs have inbuilt clutches that act like freewheels, so you cant have regen. You can on direct drive hubs.

Yeah that makes sense. Thanks for explaining!

loughside

loughside wrote: »

[IMG]http://<blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="a/j31sncA"><a href="//imgur.com/a/j31sncA"></a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>[/IMG]I started this ebike thing with a cheapish 250w hub chinese folder.
It was handy to throw in the boot of the car and take to the local parks but that was about it, drawbacks were it wasn`t man enough for the hills around here (Co. Down country lanes), and also something which hasn`t been mentioned here is that it was noisy, like those ancient electric milk floats, everybody turned their heads to see what was coming. i done the shunt mod with solder which i have to say helped a lot with performance but drawback was more sound!


My two main objectives with ebikes were torque and silence as far as possible.


Enter the BBS 02 and HD builds.
My first venture was based on one of the old Halfords frames i found on Gumtree, bought for £25 locally. A BBS 02 + Battery conversion was added from this reputable chinese seller (ive dealt with them on a few occasions now) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32484856225.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.2.39b619d8VXk8Zg All new parts fitted with the addition of an Alfine 8 hub/wheel from Taylor Wheels in Germany (£220 iirc), these are really nice on an ebike.


Pics of converted bike + Alfine 8 Hub.


I`ll get to the BBS HD conversion later.... (the rolls-royce!!)

Nice clean setup !

unkel

unkel wrote: »

In my setups, I should be able to reach the XT60 connector between battery and controller. Jerk it out and kill the powah! And of course with a geared hub motor or two I don't think there would be much of a problem too. Any idea what torque geared hub motors and direct drive motors have at certain wattages?

I forgot to put that link up to the Amazon fat bike:

Linky


The yellow one is GBP260 and the other colours are GBP450 for some reason

Big wheels alright, good for country roads lol.

There's no way you can pull the connector is sh1t happens and you need to hold on with 2 hands.....

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

There's no way you can pull the connector is sh1t happens and you need to hold on with 2 hands.....

I think I will manage with a hub motor

So what are your thoughts on the cheap Amazon fat bike?

unkel

unkel wrote: »

I think I will manage with a hub motor

So what are your thoughts on the cheap Amazon fat bike?

I don't know, doesn't look like it would be comfortable to ride.

Lumen

unkel wrote: »

I think I will manage with a hub motor

So what are your thoughts on the cheap Amazon fat bike?

Photos show disc brakes, description says v-brakes.

Shimano Tourney (TZ) is probably OK budget groupset, but "Shimano TZ Saiguan" is not a thing, Saiguan is a Chinesium brand completely unrelated to Shimano.

Avoid.

unkel

I asked the seller for the dimensions, and they promptly replied. Package is a touch smaller and a good bit lighter than I thought at:

◾ Package dimensions: 150 x 75 x 27 cm

◾ Approximate package weight: 25 kilos

This means a Parcel Motel charge of €42, so plus GBP260 for a total of €342 shipped

I have seen offers on cheap second hand fat bikes on adverts.ie that were higher than they can be got for new (if you buy right). If I electrify it and want to sell it on, I expect to get at least my total costs back, given there is new demand for eBikes from people unable / unwilling to convert themself?

loughside

unkel wrote: »

While I have your attention (and you're bored on the night shift), I had the following config in my shopping basket. Any comments? I feel the brakes with connector to the controller are a nonsense, surely when you want to brake, you do not have throttle applied? So I didn't pick them. Comment on the display? It is programmable (you can program the controller with it)

BBSHD 1000W (max 1500W) for 100mm bracket USD559
DCP-14 display USD85
throttle USD5
current rating 30A
bling 36T chainweel (smallest there is? / best for climbing?) USD70
gear sensor USD6

Total USD665
Shipping USD87

Total USD752 (EUR677) and start crying when you are caught for customs / VAT

Just a couple of things..... FedEx brought my BBS kit, Customs cost me £32 gbp a couple of weeks later.


I have that same DCP-14 display, it`s a nice item has a useful night setting but it can`t programmme the contrioller other than set the number of assist levels. If i had to do it all over again i`d forget about this display and fit the Eggrider item, fully programmable, multi-mode etc --> https://eggbikes.com/eggrider
The 36T chainwheel may be overkill imo, only if you`re going up mountains, maybe the more popular 42T would suffice, i still have the standard 46T item with a seven speed cassette. In fact i find myself changing gears two at a time due to the torque of the BBS.
Also get yourself an ebike specific chain, KMC or Wipperman

unkel

Talk about customs...

On my hub motor from Aliexpress that I paid €77 for incl. shipping got notified today that I owed DHL €32.50 on that. €18 VAT and €14.50 for DHL's handling charge :rolleyes:

That motor just became 40% more expensive...

xckjoo

unkel wrote: »

Talk about customs...

On my hub motor from Aliexpress that I paid €77 for incl. shipping got notified today that I owed DHL €32.50 on that. €18 VAT and €14.50 for DHL's handling charge :rolleyes:

That motor just became 40% more expensive...

I actually wish there was some way of paying VAT ahead of time. Don't mind paying it. It's the handling charge that irks me.

Joe1919

Hi. pswower has good value in middrives (68-73mm bb) at the moment e.g 750w48v tdz with throttle& brakes 300 dollars. Price includes free delivery (DHL) and shipment from euro (no tax) 250/350w (36V) are 290 dollars
http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2018-4c-h1fm

unkel

They also sell the Bafang BBS02B kit for USD395 included upgraded monitor. That's EUR355. Very good price!

No 100mm BB option, so no good for fat bike.

SCOL

Joe1919 wrote: »

Hi. pswower has good value in middrives (68-73mm bb) at the moment e.g 750w48v tdz with throttle& brakes 300 dollars. Price includes free delivery (DHL) and shipment from euro (no tax) 250/350w (36V) are 290 dollars
http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2018-4c-h1fm

How much would the battery cost for this set up ?

unkel

How long is a piece of string? Some people build batteries from cells they took out of laptop batteries they got for free. Some people need a lot of range / energy in their battery because of a long commute etc. Some people buy on line, some people go to a shop

On a normal 250W/350W 36V eBike you buy in the shop it would come with a 8Ah battery. I bought two brand new 36V overstock hover board batteries and a €0.99 cable to to connect the two of them in parallel, so made myself such a 8Ah battery for about €90 including shipping of the parts. Go to Halfords and they will probably charge you €300 for one, LOL

If you want a long commute and / or overclocking that motor and / or having it up steep mountain trails for a long time, you need a heavier duty battery than that

Calahonda52

krissovo wrote: »

$100 for this fat boy right now, I ordered one for the craic so hopefully it will fit in my boot.

https://engwebrand.com/?fbclid=IwAR1_e9qi-yZBEXEAmmR-Aeew-Vej4Y4-bFGHfh8yIGS-tWDkpxkR0C6U7kA

Looks like anyone who paid using Paypal is in the .... as the CC folk say the payment was to Paypal.
[ May be worth a separate thread].

Joe1919

SCOL wrote: »

How much would the battery cost for this set up ?

Battery voltage and (to some extent) capacity must match the motor. Some quick examples e.g.

a 36v 13ah for the 250/350 w costs total 161 dollars
http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2017-bv-s42x

For the 750 w 48v, a samsung 14.5 ah would cost 264 dollars.
http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2018-52-c8sc

unkel

Those prices again are very reasonable for a battery with box and charger, including shipping and EU taxes. Have you had dealings with them before yourself? The cells will be poor though and probably not up to their rating. The site itself says "China brand battery cells". Still cheap for what it is.

Joe1919 wrote: »

Battery voltage and (to some extent) capacity must match the motor.

Battery voltage must match the controller. Not so much the motor. The motor can take any voltage within reason that you throw at it. But careful with those amps

DaveyDave

Anyone any experience with GreenAer? Filled out a trial form on their website last week for Friday gone, no email or call from them.

I'm off this week and not back in work til next Wednesday, would love to have a spin on an ebike to get a feel for it and see how much speed I lose on long flat sections and how much is gained in the long, gentle inclines. Also curious to see if I gain anything through Castleknock/Blanch and all the junctions.

Might give them a call tomorrow.

unkel

So I got my front hub motor today from Aliexpress. The motor was very well packed and looks well made. It is 48V and 250W rated, but we'll see about that



Brushless Gear Motor For Ebike
Rated Voltage ：36V/48V
Rated Power ： 250W/350W
RPM:270
Rated Speed :26"(28km/h)--27.5" (29km/h)--28"(30km/h)--700c(30km/h)
Rated Efficiency: ≥ 80%
Reduction Ratio: 1:4.4
Weight: 2.95 kg
Fork Size: Front Wheel 100 mm / Rear Wheel 135~142 mm
Drive and Freewheel
Spokes Specification: 12G or 13G
Hall Sensor
Integrated Speed Sensor
Waterproof Grade： IP54
Connector : Julet 1.2 square 9 pin waterproof plug. We also provide you a convert cable.(1600mm)



Is that connector some sort of standard? I haven't got my controller yet, so I don't know. This plug must have 3 phase wiring and hall sensor wires and speed sensor wires?

Anyone got a (colour coded) wiring diagram for one?

Thankfully the motor came with an extension cable as well, which I could butcher up to make a connection to the controller, but I'd rather connect straight to the controller or get a pre-made cable

unkel

unkel wrote: »

So I got my front hub motor today from Aliexpress. The motor was very well packed and looks well made. It is 48V and 250W rated, but we'll see about that



Brushless Gear Motor For Ebike
Rated Voltage ：36V/48V
Rated Power ： 250W/350W
RPM:270
Rated Speed :26"(28km/h)--27.5" (29km/h)--28"(30km/h)--700c(30km/h)
Rated Efficiency: ≥ 80%
Reduction Ratio: 1:4.4
Weight: 2.95 kg
Fork Size: Front Wheel 100 mm / Rear Wheel 135~142 mm
Drive and Freewheel
Spokes Specification: 12G or 13G
Hall Sensor
Integrated Speed Sensor
Waterproof Grade： IP54
Connector : Julet 1.2 square 9 pin waterproof plug. We also provide you a convert cable.(1600mm)



Is that connector some sort of standard? I haven't got my controller yet, so I don't know. This plug must have 3 phase wiring and hall sensor wires and speed sensor wires?

Anyone got a (colour coded) wiring diagram for one?

Thankfully the motor came with an extension cable as well, which I could butcher up to make a connection to the controller, but I'd rather connect straight to the controller or get a pre-made cable

2.95 Kg, definitely not a high power motor , I probably wouldn't put more than about 500-700 watts max through it and at that you'd want to watch it on hills.

Joe1919

unkel wrote: »

Those prices again are very reasonable for a battery with box and charger, including shipping and EU taxes. Have you had dealings with them before yourself? The cells will be poor though and probably not up to their rating. The site itself says "China brand battery cells". Still cheap for what it is.

Battery voltage must match the controller. Not so much the motor. The motor can take any voltage within reason that you throw at it. But careful with those amps

I have never dealt with pswpower. The last kits I bought was from Yose Power, so i can only personally recommend them.
The 48 volt pswpower battery I mentioned has 65 (13 X 5) Samsung 2.9 ah cells.(which incidentally I have bought (with solder tabs) for E 2.22 each from Nkon,
https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/18650-size/samsung-inr18650-29e-2900mah-e6-8-25a-met-u-tag.html

I can personally recommend Nkon (3 orders so far).

I had problems with battery weight in the past. I like plenty of battery power (900w plus) but using low capacity cells, the weight quickly added up and made the bike very heavy and unstable, especially as batteries were carried on rear rack. For this reason I bought and would recommend using the newer 3.5ah cells if putting together your own battery.(or some other lightweight solution.)
https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/18650-size/samsung-inr18650-35e.html
https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/18650-size/lg-inr18650-mj1.html

unkel

Joe1919 wrote: »

Samsung 2.9 ah cells.(which incidentally I have bought (with solder tabs) for E 2.22 each from Nkon,
https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/18650-size/samsung-inr18650-29e-2900mah-e6-8-25a-met-u-tag.html

Did you check their capacity? They were obviously used but if you still got about 2900mAh per cell then it's a pretty good deal for €200 + €11 shipping for 100 cells is seriously good (that's about 1kWh)

How did you make up the batteries, welding or kit?

BTW I'm quite suprised that the vast majority of the Samsung 2200mAh out of the 3 year old heavily used eBike I bought are still fine with average about 1750mAh left. Just a few rotten apples. BMS obviously didn't do its job or in general a BMS can't be expected to be the ultimate keeper of good battery health.

Joe1919 wrote: »

For this reason I bought and would recommend using the newer 3.5ah cells if putting together your own battery.(or some other lightweight solution.)
https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/18650-size/samsung-inr18650-35e.html

I guess it is always a trade off, but those will give you 3450/2900 = 19% more capacity, but they are €2.95/€2 = 48% more expensive. I'd go for the former

Joe1919

unkel wrote: »

Did you check their capacity? They were obviously used but if you still got about 2900mAh per cell then it's a pretty good deal for €200 + €11 shipping for 100 cells is seriously good (that's about 1kWh)

How did you make up the batteries, welding or kit?

BTW I'm quite suprised that the vast majority of the Samsung 2200mAh out of the 3 year old heavily used eBike I bought are still fine with average about 1750mAh left. Just a few rotten apples. BMS obviously didn't do its job or in general a BMS can't be expected to be the ultimate keeper of good battery health.

I guess it is always a trade off, but those will give you 3450/2900 = 19% more capacity, but they are €2.95/€2 = 48% more expensive. I'd go for the former

The Samsung cells are brand new, but they were on the shelf for a while. I tested voltage on each cell and all were the same.I always do a load test on a new assembled battery by doing a full charge and discharge by connecting a 'load' (a used triton 10kw shower element 5ohms) and recording current and time, and check balance by measuring the cell group voltages during test. The batteries are all from the same batch and are perfectly balanced. I always look up the manufacture date with the lookup tool e.g.
https://batterybro.com/pages/18650-date-code-lookup-tool
I also replaced the heavy steel battery rack with a lighter alloy rack. In all, I managed to reduce the weight at the rear of bike by about 3kg. The extra cost of using lighter cells plus the secondhand replacement rack came to about 120 euro, which works out at about 40 euro per kilo weight reduction.
This actually is good value in terms of reducing the bike weight and makes the bike much more usable. I would have no problem paying at the same rate to reduce the bike weight even further.e.g I would pay 400 euro no problem if ebike bike weight could magically be reduced from say 24kg to 14 Kg.

Anyhow, I ordered the cell with nickle solder 'Z tags' at 55 cent/cell extra and also the plastic holders at around 25 cent/cell.

unkel

Joe1919 wrote: »

Anyhow, I ordered the cell with nickle solder 'Z tags' at 55 cent/cell extra and also the plastic holders at around 25 cent/cell.

Pre-soldered like this?



And then just solder the nickel plates together (far away from soldering / heating the cell itself)?

Sounds like a good idea. Any pics of the battery build?

Joe1919

unkel wrote: »

Pre-soldered like this?

Yes, they are 'Z' tags. The strips come out the same side on 'c' tags.
It has its limitations e.g If you use an old battery casing to 'recell' a battery, the solder tags are probably too bulky to fit.

unkel

Tell me about bulky!

The vruzend kit works well but there is a lot of air between the cells and the kit itself has weight too. With my 1750mAh batteries that's gonna be a big heavy pack with less than 0.5kWh capacity

Handy it is flexible though. I've a broken 24V foldable eBike coming in tomorrow, probably dead battery, so can easily configure the kit to give me a 24V or 36V pack to test it with

unkel

Finished testing all my free 18650 cells for capacity, internal resistance and self-discharge. Only 39 made the grade out of 76

I properly put a heat shrink wrap on the naked cells (including the cells that had a damaged wrap, which I removed)

And on a more positive note, with the good cells, I built a 24V pack (7S3P) with the vruzend kit using the repackr site for optimal parallel sets. My soldering skills are pretty much non-existent but I eventually managed to solder a connection to the folding eBike battery pack holder (which was broken) and I fabricated a cable to connect the pack holder to my vruzend battery

Hooked it all up and the folding eBike is working great

Far quicker than you'd expect a 24V eBike to be. I guess the small wheels allow for quick acceleration.

On other news, I'm finding it very difficult to source a new / used budget fat bike. I might have an update on this over the weekend.

unkel

Got a 6Ah 29.4V (7s3p) battery for the folding eBike with BMS and chargeport on aliexpress for €25 with free shipping. And that's below the threshold for VAT too, so that's my final cost. Christ these things are cheap.

Seriously thinking of getting 4 more of these to use myself for a €100 58.8V 12Ah pack, 0.7kWh. I'll keep the vruzend kits (or maybe sell one). It's handy I can make myself any voltage battery with it within minutes, but it is impossible to beat those kind of prices. If you put 1kW through that, it's only a leisurely 1.4C. Will do me just fine. Sorry Mad_Lad, those lipo batteries are not for me yet!

Just bought a secondhand hub wheel plus a brand new controller on adverts.ie for €35. This stuff is addictive

Picking up a fat bike in the morning :cool: