The eBike thread

unkel

My DIY mechanical skills are pretty poor Thargor (you won't catch me with any false modesty, you've seen me around on boards ) but I found it pretty easy. Plenty of YouTube tutorials help of course. In fact it's probably easier than doing a rear wheel conversion as that can have some tricky aspects

Have a good look again over this thread, plenty of references and links to where to source kits, depending on your budget. Summary from memory: Yosepower is good, eBay, Amazon, most ship from EU warehouses so you won't have to pay for VAT / customs - look at the small print though. For higher end and higher budget stuff, go to em3ev, but the costs over there rack up very quickly and you will have to pay VAT and customs when it comes in

It's sad Paul over at em3ev doesn't sell Mac motors or any hub motors any more but If I emailed him directly I'm sure he's get me a mac motor but those hub motors were extremely good. I would like to know though why he stopped selling them.

I can only presume it might have to do with the fact the Crank drive motors are a lot easier to install and you don't need Torque arms but geared hubs have much less drag when there's no motor power + seamless acceleration with no stops for gear changes.

I'd still like to test out one of the crank drives but I got the Bosch so it would be a waste and I'd probably not get more than 800 for it now being a 2013, it's in great nick though hardly used. I busted the gear hub in the rear, it's an sram dual drive 3 and I can't find one anywhere as they're not produced any more so I've lost a lot of gear ratios. The hub itself is perfect I just need the pin that connects to the click box and I think the nut. Can't be got anywhere. Shame. So only solution really is a larger crank to give me a higher top end while on pedal power.

The Sram hub was great though, 3 speeds but you could change gear even under max power, I'd love to try out one of those automatic gear hubs, but you're adding weight and probably drag but would be interesting for the higher power bafang kits because you only need 3 gears but has to handle the torque.

unkel

€800 is very optimistic Mad_Lad, in the state it is, with the age it is. You'd better just fix it up and use it yourself. For €800 you can buy a decent second hand mountain bike and fit a brand new Bafang mid drive system to it yourself (including battery)

What makes you think Paul stopped selling those motors? I still have it in the back of my head that I want one eventually.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

€800 is very optimistic Mad_Lad, in the state it is, with the age it is. You'd better just fix it up and use it yourself. For €800 you can buy a decent second hand mountain bike and fit a brand new Bafang mid drive system to it yourself (including battery)

What makes you think Paul stopped selling those motors? I still have it in the back of my head that I want one eventually.

Yeah probably a bit optimistic but a lot of other bikes only come with the rear cassette and no gear hub so I doubt it should make a big difference, I have a normal wheel on it now without hub, take the gear changer off no one would be the wiser.

The Mac motors are no longer on the em3ev site.

Thargor

Why is this so cheap? What kind of speed/power/range could I be expecting here roughly with this kit do you think? Im a fairly decent cyclist from years of commuting so Id be supplying a good bit of pedal power aswell.

https://yosepower.com/collections/e-bike-conversion-kit/products/36v-350w-rear-motor-kit-with-36v12-5ah-battery?variant=34181258936455

Id be putting it on a large Trek with 26" wheels:

unkel

Good value, presuming it is shipping from an EU warehouse. And if you don't fit the throttle, it's fully road legal too (same legal status as push bike, so no need for helmet, tax, insurance or license)

If you're happy to only have limited assist, it sounds perfect for you (and in practice these tend to have a good bit more than advertised power)

Even if you don't like it, take it off and sell on adverts.ie for €350 no bother

graememk

Quick question, do these kits fit any bike or is there certain measurements to keep an eye out for?

Thargor

unkel wrote: »

Good value, presuming it is shipping from an EU warehouse. And if you don't fit the throttle, it's fully road legal too (same legal status as push bike, so no need for helmet, tax, insurance or license)

If you're happy to only have limited assist, it sounds perfect for you (and in practice these tend to have a good bit more than advertised power)

Even if you don't like it, take it off and sell on adverts.ie for €350 no bother

Seems a bit weedy now that I look into it, Id be looking for something with a little more oomph like in Andy Kirbys videos otherwise its a bit pointless compared to the speeds I get from my roadbikes anyway.

This one sounds alright if I could get a battery though:

https://yosepower.com/collections/e-bike-conversion-kit/products/48v-1000w-26-rear-motor-kit-for-freewheel

unkel

Thargor wrote: »

Seems a bit weedy now that I look into it, Id be looking for something with a little more oomph like in Andy Kirbys videos otherwise its a bit pointless compared to the speeds I get from my roadbikes anyway.

This one sounds alright if I could get a battery though:

https://yosepower.com/collections/e-bike-conversion-kit/products/48v-1000w-26-rear-motor-kit-for-freewheel

That's a direct drive. Indistructo but loads of cons as well. You really need to read this thread from start to finish, every single post. All is explained. And for the needs you describe, 250W is plenty. I believe a professional tour de france cyclist rarely exceeds this output. Imagine him helping you out behind you and then your effort on top

graememk wrote: »

Quick question, do these kits fit any bike or is there certain measurements to keep an eye out for?

The elephant in the room. With a front wheel kit, just get the wheel size right and you can't really go wrong. With the rear wheel kit, a few more complications and with the mid drives, way more complications - for one many a bottom bracket of a modern highish end bike will not work with a mid drive Bafang motor

Thargor

When you fit kits like this:

https://yosepower.com/collections/e-bike-conversion-kit/products/36v-350w-rear-motor-kit-with-36v12-5ah-battery?variant=34181258936455

What does the chain actually attach to at the back? Do you remove the cassette from the original non electric rear wheel and bolt it to the side of the motor or is there already a cassette there on the motor or what?

I've watched 10 videos now and I still can't get an answer to this, it's the bit they always skip, the chain just magically seems to be attached at the end but attached to what? Is the rear derailleur obsolete? No changing rear gears? Why do they never mention having to adjust it?

gman2k

Thargor wrote: »

When you fit kits like this:

https://yosepower.com/collections/e-bike-conversion-kit/products/36v-350w-rear-motor-kit-with-36v12-5ah-battery?variant=34181258936455

What does the chain actually attach to at the back? Do you remove the cassette from the original non electric rear wheel and bolt it to the side of the motor or is there already a cassette there on the motor or what?

I've watched 10 videos now and I still can't get an answer to this, it's the bit they always skip, the chain just magically seems to be attached at the end but attached to what? Is the rear derailleur obsolete? No changing rear gears? Why do they never mention having to adjust it?

It says in the description it takes a 6,7,8 or 9 speed "freewheel". The pictures in the video is clearly with a rear derailleur.

Thargor

Thargor wrote: »

When you fit kits like this:

https://yosepower.com/collections/e-bike-conversion-kit/products/36v-350w-rear-motor-kit-with-36v12-5ah-battery?variant=34181258936455

What does the chain actually attach to at the back? Do you remove the cassette from the original non electric rear wheel and bolt it to the side of the motor or is there already a cassette there on the motor or what?

I've watched 10 videos now and I still can't get an answer to this, it's the bit they always skip, the chain just magically seems to be attached at the end but attached to what? Is the rear derailleur obsolete? No changing rear gears? Why do they never mention having to adjust it?

As Unkel pointed out, that's a direct drive motor and that's fine and all, they're ultra reliable and should last forever as there's no moving parts but as it's direct drive it will be an absolute b1tch to pedal without motor due to drag from the motor when there's no power to the motor, it will feel like you're pulling a trailer.

A geared hub is much better if you like to pedal at all and just use the motor for boost, they're more efficient too, Bafang also make Geared hubs.

I would always recommend the MAC hub motors from em3ev.com but he doesn't seem to sell them any more.

Joe1919

Thargor wrote: »

When you fit kits like this:

https://yosepower.com/collections/e-bike-conversion-kit/products/36v-350w-rear-motor-kit-with-36v12-5ah-battery?variant=34181258936455

What does the chain actually attach to at the back? Do you remove the cassette.....

You are looking at the freewheel kit. If your bike has a cassette, you need this cassette version instead below and fit your existing cassette to new wheel.
By the way, I had to file my dropouts a few mm deeper to get wheel to fit snugly as axle is bigger and allow room for the anti rotation washer tab.

https://yosepower.com/collections/conversion-kit-with-battery/products/36v-350w-rear-motor-kit-for-cassette-with-36v12-5ah-battery

Thargor

But every bike has a cassette? Now Im even more confused, are there any of the non-direct drive geared hubs on this page then?

https://yosepower.com/collections/e-bike-conversion-kit

That motor in the link you posted takes a cassette, you can see the spline which it connects to.

That motor with 35 Nm will be pretty gutless.

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/cart/#/category/uid-5

Check these out, though U.K company probably hit by import duties + 21% VAT ? Damn Brexit!

Thargor

Deleted User wrote: »

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/cart/#/category/uid-5

Check these out, though U.K company probably hit by import duties + 21% VAT ? Damn Brexit!

Thanks, I still dont understand what the chain is connected to on those geared hubs though, and if the rear derailleur becomes obsolete? So Ill just be left with the 3 gears on my front chainring?

graememk

Deleted User wrote: »

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/cart/#/category/uid-5

Check these out, though U.K company probably hit by import duties + 21% VAT ? Damn Brexit!

When buying from the uk now you shouldn't pay UK VAT. If made in the UK there should be no duty either

Joe1919

Thargor wrote: »

But every bike has a cassette? Now Im even more confused,

You need to know your cassette/freehub from your 'freewheels'.


https://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html

gomamochi1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/cart/#/category/uid-5

Check these out, though U.K company probably hit by import duties + 21% VAT ? Damn Brexit!

Are these not just the standard aliexpress kits that are being sold on ebay?

Thargor

Joe1919 wrote: »

You need to know your cassette/freehub from your 'freewheels'.


https://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html

Okay so there is a cog on the sides of the geared motor that the chain loops around? And I assume the derailleur just functions as something to keep the chain under tension then, you dont have any gears on the back anymore?

Theres an unofficial rule on the cycling forum that if you take a picture of a bike it should be from the side that shows the full drivetrain, I wish ebike kit vendors would adopt this rule...

Joe1919

Thargor wrote: »

Okay so there is a cog on the sides of the geared motor that the chain loops around? And I assume the derailleur just functions as something to keep the chain under tension then, you dont have any gears on the back anymore?
.

No.
There are two versions of rear hub motors. The first version has a threaded flange and you thread off your existing 6/7 speed freewheel from your existing wheel with a special tool (was supplied with my kit) and refit it onto the new electric wheel.

The second version(which is your case I think) has splines on the freehub and you remove the locking ring that holds the cassette on your existing wheel and refit the cassette by sliding in on the new electric wheel.

You may have to adjust/fine tune the derailleur stop screws and indexing on your derailleur but your bike gears works as it normally does.

The fact that the motor is a 'geared' motor has nothing to do with this. The 'gears' in this case refer to nylon planetary gears on a clutch that are inside the motor and make the motor more efficient at slower speeds and also make it easier to pedal the bike if you run out of battery.

Thargor

Deleted User wrote: »

As Unkel pointed out, that's a direct drive motor and that's fine and all, they're ultra reliable and should last forever as there's no moving parts but as it's direct drive it will be an absolute b1tch to pedal without motor due to drag from the motor when there's no power to the motor, it will feel like you're pulling a trailer.

A geared hub is much better if you like to pedal at all and just use the motor for boost, they're more efficient too, Bafang also make Geared hubs.

I would always recommend the MAC hub motors from em3ev.com but he doesn't seem to sell them any more.

How are you telling the difference there? I posted it as an example of a geared hub motor but its direct drive?

Thargor

Joe1919 wrote: »

No.
There are two versions of rear hub motors. The first version has a threaded flange and you thread off your existing 6/7 speed freewheel from your existing wheel with a special tool (was supplied with my kit) and refit it onto the new electric wheel.

The second version(which is your case I think) has splines on the freehub and you remove the locking ring that holds the cassette on your existing wheel and refit the cassette by sliding in on the new electric wheel.

You may have to adjust/fine tune the derailleur stop screws and indexing on your derailleur but your bike gears works as it normally does.

The fact that the motor is a 'geared' motor has nothing to do with this. The 'gears' in this case refer to nylon planetary gears on a clutch that are inside the motor and make the motor more efficient at slower speeds and also make it easier to pedal the bike if you run out of battery.

Okay thanks for the explanation.

jc bamford

Mousewar wrote: »

Kuma just took 600 quid off the bike so I'm agonna go for it.

Just wondering if you got the Kuma and how it worked out. I am looking at the R1 myself but the the battery looks a bit small at 8.7 AH

Mousewar

jc bamford wrote: »

Just wondering if you got the Kuma and how it worked out. I am looking at the R1 myself but the the battery looks a bit small at 8.7 AH

Still waiting as the bike to work scheme seems to take forever.
You can do test rides at their place in blanchardstown. Worth a visit.

jc bamford

Thanks for getting back.
I am afraid Blanchardstown is out of bounds for me until after the lockdown.
There is lad on Adverts selling new e bikes for €750. They look OK. I am not able to post a link.
Brand new electric bike

Liquidation sale price €750 - rrp €1499

250w motor
11. 8ah battery
25km/hr - we have code to de-restrict to 35km/hr
80km range

Brand new in box - can test drive in kilcock
I wonder if anybody knows what they are like

Mousewar

Out of bounds for me too. I could care less.
You'd have to post a link to adverts and someone here could have a look.

jc bamford

https://www.adverts.ie/electric-folding-bikes/city-hybrid-electric-bike-brand-new-stock/22937717
This is the link, I hope it works

Skill Magill

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

I'm a Brompton Electric user. Very impressed so far. Heavy but expected that. Zips along nicely (urban user).

How do you find the range / battery? If I have mine on 3 it runs out quite quickly,
doubt I'd get 20km on that setting (have yet to do a proper test to how far I actually go)

jc bamford

jc bamford wrote: »

https://www.adverts.ie/electric-folding-bikes/city-hybrid-electric-bike-brand-new-stock/22937717
This is the link, I hope it works

On Irish roads do you really not want at least front shocks ? then again they do add to weight.

This is a rear hub motor and I have no specs to see if this is a geared or direct drive hub, direct drive hubs are fine if you don't want to pedal but they are an absolute b1tch to pedal without power, it can feel like you're pulling 2 Children in a trailer behind you.

Geared hubs are much better because they have a clutch which disconnects the motor entirely from the wheel which means you can freewheel without any drag so they're good for when you want to actually pedal.

Geared hubs also have more torque and better efficiency.

There's really no way to tell how this bike will perform without testing it out.

Skill Magill

Can anybody recommend an app or is there an electric bike app with GPS and maybe a battery level on it too?
A dedicated garmin maybe?

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

There's really no way to tell how this bike will perform without testing it out.

I'd say you can make a good guess. It's a road legal eBike, so slow and lacking power, with what clearly looks like a rear hub motor to me. Chinese, so the the electric bits will be fine, but the bike itself and its mechanicals will be very much bottom of the heap

At €750 it's very cheap, but in this case you get what you pay for. Also the sales channel (adverts.ie) does not give much hope about the bike being under warranty if anything goes wrong

Personally, I'd rather buy a good quality second hand bike and convert it with a more powerful kit, for less total spent, but if your budget is tight and that's not your thing (and you really do not want to give it a go, despite of this thread and the help you will get online), this might be an option

unkel

unkel wrote: »

I'd say you can make a good guess. It's a road legal eBike, so slow and lacking power, with what clearly looks like a rear hub motor to me. Chinese, so the the electric bits will be fine, but the bike itself and its mechanicals will be very much bottom of the heap

At €750 it's very cheap, but in this case you get what you pay for. Also the sales channel (adverts.ie) does not give much hope about the bike being under warranty if anything goes wrong

Personally, I'd rather buy a good quality second hand bike and convert it with a more powerful kit, for less total spent, but if your budget is tight and that's not your thing (and you really do not want to give it a go, despite of this thread and the help you will get online), this might be an option

Conversion is the way to go but not everyone has the knowledge to do this or are bothered.

The question is if it's a DD or geared hub ?, I can't say but you should know when it's powered up, you can tell the different noise a DD and Hub motor make.

Top speed is limited but it doesn't tell us how much power it actually has because I highly doubt any ebike is actually limited to 250 watts.

unkel

DD is physically bigger. No way that's a DD in that picture. And while most motors of road legal ebikes can do an awful lot more than 250W, their controllers are usually restricted to 7A (for a 36V setup), giving 250W max output of the system. I've seen many of them.

Feck out the controller and replace it with a €15 30A from China and then you're talking (over a kW)

unkel

unkel wrote: »

DD is physically bigger. No way that's a DD in that picture. And while most motors of road legal ebikes can do an awful lot more than 250W, their controllers are usually restricted to 7A (for a 36V setup), giving 250W max output of the system. I've seen many of them.

Feck out the controller and replace it with a €15 30A from China and then you're talking (over a kW)

That motor in the picture looks big enough for it to be a DD. I was running 5 Kw through something similar , I did rewire the phase wires though.

Any real 250 watt ebike is going to be crap but most of them are more than 250 watts at least the Bosch is and I'm pretty sure any ebike with more than 50 Nm of torque is well more than 250 watts.

I remember seeing a youtube of the early 50 nm Bosch motor the lad had a watt meter and it was pulling over 500 w from the battery.

mailforkev

Lovely day here today so went for a spin down to the sea. I’ve only put 120kms on it so far thanks to lockdown but it’s all good so far. It gets a good few admiring glances (deffo the bike rather than me!).

unkel

Looks great!

Yeah it's an eye catcher alright. :-)

Magzire

Is there any shops in dublin area that will upgrade your current bike into a ebike?

gomamochi1

mailforkev wrote: »

Lovely day here today so went for a spin down to the sea. I’ve only put 120kms on it so far thanks to lockdown but it’s all good so far. It gets a good few admiring glances (deffo the bike rather than me!).

Pure class

unkel

Magzire wrote: »

Is there any shops in dublin area that will upgrade your current bike into a ebike?

I doubt it. One word: insurance.

There are some people on the likes of adverts.ie that will convert your bike for you though, have a look. Or just do it yourself, it really is pretty easy, particularly when you buy a full kit including battery from one crowd like yose power. All click and play.

gomamochi1

unkel wrote: »

DD is physically bigger. No way that's a DD in that picture. And while most motors of road legal ebikes can do an awful lot more than 250W, their controllers are usually restricted to 7A (for a 36V setup), giving 250W max output of the system. I've seen many of them.

Feck out the controller and replace it with a €15 30A from China and then you're talking (over a kW)

Could anyone recommend a conversion kit for a daily commuter 10km each way? Hybrid bike. Thanks

jc bamford

Magzire wrote: »

Is there any shops in dublin area that will upgrade your current bike into a ebike?

These lads on Done Deal are offering it. I dont know what they are like.

https://www.donedeal.ie/bicycles-for-sale/electric-bike-conversions-amp-service/27144585

thebiglad

jc bamford wrote: »

These lads on Done Deal are offering it. I dont know what they are like.

https://www.donedeal.ie/bicycles-for-sale/electric-bike-conversions-amp-service/27144585

Used him for 2 bikes now - great service, would recommend.

Thargor

thebiglad wrote: »

Used him for 2 bikes now - great service, would recommend.

Really? What did you get for the money?

thebiglad

Thargor wrote: »

Really? What did you get for the money?

2 already decent bikes adapted to ebike - good job that I am happy with - as simple as it may be, I do not possess the technical ability to adapt my own bikes. Yes, I am sure it would have been cheaper and next time I need my car serviced I will buy the parts and do that myself too - i know my limits and will pay others to do what I can't or don't want to, even if I spend more occasionally:D

The amount I paid though appeared in line with other quotes I got and I looked up battery types etc so I am satisfied with what was installed.

The bikes both ride lovely (which is ultimately what I wanted), have good range and power and overall cost me significantly less than an equivalent bike from a store in e-bike form.

eeloe

Thinking of picking up the Kuma R1.

Does anyone have any experience?

Just an edit...

after some more research it's either the Kuma R1 or a the VanMoof s3.

Mousewar

My Kuma M1 finally arrived.
It's a lovely looking bike. I specifically ordered the black as I wanted it to look as "ordinary" as possible. The rack and bag in the pic detracts from its looks tbh.

Cycling it is great fun. I put it on the highest power setting and gave my wife a go. She couldn't stop laughing. It's quite exhilarating.

As an ebike novice, I can't really assess how it compares to other bikes. Certainly on level 5 assist, it's very nippy and ordinary inclines are no bother. Go down to level 1 and there's not a lot happening. I tackled a couple of very steep hills and in level 5 it went up them fine. I mean, it still required extra effort from me and I wasn't bombing up them but it went up steadily and I wasn't panting or anything. These are the type of hills where you'd just get off and walk if you were on an ordinary bike.
I've also cycled it with the motor off. It's a heavy bike so you notice it but it's actually grand and cycles fine. No real drag with motor off. I sometimes just switch it off when coming downhill.

I took it out to Bray today (I'm in Shankill) and went to the base of Bray Head. Then came back and thought, feck it, and went up Killiney Hill. Back home now and it really wasn't much effort at all.

eeloe

Mousewar wrote: »

My Kuma M1 finally arrived.
It's a lovely looking bike. I specifically ordered the black as I wanted it to look as "ordinary" as possible. The rack and bag in the pic detracts from its looks tbh.

Cycling it is great fun. I put it on the highest power setting and gave my wife a go. She couldn't stop laughing. It's quite exhilarating.

As an ebike novice, I can't really assess how it compares to other bikes. Certainly on level 5 assist, it's very nippy and ordinary inclines are no bother. Go down to level 1 and there's not a lot happening. I tackled a couple of very steep hills and in level 5 it went up them fine. I mean, it still required extra effort from me and I wasn't bombing up them but it went up steadily and I wasn't panting or anything. These are the type of hills where you'd just get off and walk if you were on an ordinary bike.
I've also cycled it with the motor off. It's a heavy bike so you notice it but it's actually grand and cycles fine. No real drag with motor off. I sometimes just switch it off when coming downhill.

I took it out to Bray today (I'm in Shankill) and went to the base of Bray Head. Then came back and thought, feck it, and went up Killiney Hill. Back home now and it really wasn't much effort at all.

Looks really great.

Is there a boost feature or a throttle in anyway?